Unless you've seen ALL the 50-60 somethings in your area, then you are still only selecting by 'people standing in your local pharmacy' so only a couple of dozen people out of a pool of hundreds or thousands.
So they could very plausibly have been messed up by a previous positive test.
The bigger issue is not the 60yo's only coming now, but the fact that you were the only person there under 40, implying that it is the younger ones who are remaining unboosted.
No argument from me @oscillatewildly - apologies if that's how it came across. Was merely giving my perspective. My mate and his wife both got 1st and 2nd jabs at the same time. He had his booster last week, his Mrs is much later. Mrs Fazzini got hers the week before, but as I pointed out, that was justified as she is older than God.
ayjaydoubleyou
Free Member
Unless you’ve seen ALL the 50-60 somethings in your area, then you are still only selecting by ‘people standing in your local pharmacy’ so only a couple of dozen people out of a pool of hundreds or thousands.
So they could very plausibly have been messed up by a previous positive test.The bigger issue is not the 60yo’s only coming now, but the fact that you were the only person there under 40, implying that it is the younger ones who are remaining unboosted.
again im not going into it, i cant be bothered, its just how it came across to me with my eyes at that specific time in a room with them, if it was for that reason then so be it, it didnt quite add up for me, maybe im wrong who know's! fingers crossed your right and they were all not just starting the 1st jab instead
fazzini
Full Member
No argument from me @oscillatewildly – apologies if that’s how it came across. Was merely giving my perspective. My mate and his wife both got 1st and 2nd jabs at the same time. He had his booster last week, his Mrs is much later. Mrs Fazzini got hers the week before, but as I pointed out, that was justified as she is older than God.
all good buddy - its just how it came across to me in there, maybe i read it wrong but it seemed wrong i was getting jabbed at the same time as someone who's my dads age...if youve struggled in your area getting appointments i totally understand, but for my area this hasnt been a issue nor anyone i've spoke to
im just glad to get mine done, hopefully yours too!
also dodged a bullet at weekend too, due to go out with friends on saturday, we all agreed it was a bit too risky, then bam this morning both of there boys have tested positive, so would have been at risk going into the xmas week
It is clear that Johnson wants restrictions, he isn’t going for the ‘let rip’ option. Which is precisely why he is facing mounting opposition from his back benchers and why the Labour Party supported him in a parliamentary vote a few days ago.
This is an odd conclusion. At every single stage of the pandemic Johnson has had to be dragged kicking and screaming to bring in restrictions. He's repeatedly said he sees himself as 'the mayor in Jaws who kept the beaches open' and is reported by Cummings to have said he agrees with the 'bonkers' people like Hitchens et al.
The only reason he has brought in restrictions is because he's been unable to counter the tsunami of evidence to the contrary and the army of advisors and officials telling him what he needs to do. It's the same this time except he's putting up more resistance as it suits both his political interests and his own position. To conclude that he wants restrictions from all this seems to go against all the evidence, but if you have any I'd be interested to see it.
So incentivise people instead of punishing them for not having a vaccine. If they paid everyone who had the vaccine £100 we’d have 99.99% take up. It would be a small price to pay compared to the economic cost of lockdowns.
Alternatively a health tax on those that refuse to get a vaccine. In a similar fashion to how smokers are taxed through the eyeballs for their filthy habit (which is why many give up, it’s just far too expensive), why not add on a few percentage points to the unvaccinated’s NI contribution. That way either they’ll quickly decide to get jabbed, or if not pay for the additional health burden costs themselves.
As I recall delta airlines in the US introduced a similar scheme, whereby it cost unvaxed employees 200 dollars a month extra in health premiums to cover the additional likelihood of their treatment
I suggested this a few pages back. As a smoker you're probably paying an additional tenner a day in tax, every single day or your (significantly shortened) life. You certainly won't be spending decades drawing your pension and needing full time care in Autumn Pastures home for the Terminally Bewildered at the taxpayers expense
Triple the NI contributions of anyone who won't get vaccinated. Simple.
And just so what we know what to predictably expect this afternoon, the Tory backbench fruitloops have just announced that they will oppose ANY further restrictions. They haven't even heard what the proposals are and already they've come out against them
Thats the 'logic' of the headbangers we're dealing with here. And our Prime Minister actually listens to these nutters
They've just made covid passes a requirement in Andalucia - hopspitality venues, as well as hospitals and carehomes...
People in the southern Spanish region who don’t have a Covid-19 health pass to enter hospitality establishments will not be able to rely on sitting outdoors in most bar and restaurant terraces, Andalusia’s Health Minister has warned.
Andalusia’s Minister of Health and Families Jesús Aguirre on Saturday confirmed Friday’s announcement that the Covid health pass will finally be required for the hospitality sector in Andalusia after several failed attempts to get it approved in the courts over the course of 2021.
From Monday December 20th, people will need either a Covid health pass or proof of a negative Covid-19 test to be able to enter the interior of bars, cafés, restaurants and nightclubs in the region that’s home to cities such as Seville, Málaga, Granada and Almería.
Even though the latest regional BOJA bulletin doesn’t make a mention of it, Aguirre told journalists in Córdoba on Saturday that “the majority of establishments will ask for it (the Digital Covid Certificate) for outdoor seating”, stressing the commitment of hospitality businesses to adopting the measure.
Though unofficial, this makes Andalusia the first region in Spain to require a Covid health pass for people sitting outdoors in bar and restaurant terraces, a seating option which is usually available across the country if the weather allows for it.
That means that unvaccinated people in the southern region may not be able to sit outdoors – an alternative which is available in the 11 other Spanish regions which currently require a Covid-19 health pass – and in effect be barred from the vast majority of hospitality establishments in Andalusia.
The region’s government – La Junta – has made a QR reader available to the region’s roughly 34,800 bars and 11,700 restaurants which will allow them to scan customers’ Covid health passes and check their validity.
So incentivise people instead of punishing them for not having a vaccine. If they paid everyone who had the vaccine £100 we’d have 99.99% take up. It would be a small price to pay compared to the economic cost of lockdowns.
Not a bad idea.
As a smoker you’re probably paying an additional tenner a day in tax,
On a ten pound packet of fags 8 quid is tax. On a 20 a day habit that’s 2900 a year extra paid by smokers. Or over 30 years close to 90k extra in tax.. far more than the average cost to treat someone with cancer
And as you say, they’ll also be far less likely to be a long term burden on society
Meeting happening now
The Daily Telegraph is reporting these options as:
1. Urging the public to limit social mixing indoors, without legal enforcement
2. Mandating curbs on household mixing, the return of social distancing and forcing pubs and restaurants to close at 20:00 GMT
3. A return to full lockdown
The bigger issue is not the 60yo’s only coming now, but the fact that you were the only person there under 40, implying that it is the younger ones who are remaining unboosted.
Most under 40's from non-vulnerable will only have had their second doses around August-September.
Edit Source = anecdata, I am (just) under 40 and work with quite a lot of under 30s.
I think we will get something along the lines of option 2.
I have my booster booked for 3rd Jan, it was the earliest I could book. We have had walk ins near us, so might try that before Christmas.
Triple the NI contributions of anyone who won’t get vaccinated. Simple
Agree but this would only work for people who pay NI. Instead, people without a covid pass could be charged a small fee to enter any indoor space.
Most under 40’s from non-vulnerable will only have had their second doses around August-September.
From memory, everyone 18-40 became eligible at the same time.
I'm 31. I booked my first as soon as I was eligible. Walked in for my second at 8 weeks. (which was the first day 16-17yos could get their first, so there was a big queue).
That was second half of august.
Of course by the time I was eligible to book my booster, first slots were in January. Still searching for a walk in. Think I've found one near my office thats doable in my lunch break tomorrow.
The Daily Telegraph is reporting these options as:
1. Urging the public to limit social mixing indoors, without legal enforcement
2. Mandating curbs on household mixing, the return of social distancing and forcing pubs and restaurants to close at 20:00 GMT
3. A return to full lockdown
Option 1 is absolutely nailed on then.
Most people are already doing it anyway, it won't send the foaming-at-the-mouth brigade absolutely apoplectic (everything's relative... obviously they'll still be really, really angry), and no legal obligations mean no need to offer any financial assistance to anybody, so they can let the hospitality industry go quietly bust
I went to New white Hart lane yesterday for the game against Liverpool (great game btw). I was pleased to see they were checking everyone's covid passport on entry to the stadium concourse.
News from the local hospital: 20 Covid patients, 18 are old and non-vaccinated, one of the vaccinated is diabetic, the other vaccinated we don't know about age or possible commorbidity.
Apparently one of the old unvaccinated patients is still ranting conspiracy theory bollocks between gasps for oxygen.
I have my booster booked for 3rd Jan, it was the earliest I could book. We have had walk ins near us, so might try that before Christmas.
I booked my booster as soon as the system opened up to Under 50's which was 21st November. The date I was given was 16th December, the nearest slot available.
In between that, the whole lot was opened up to walk-in and the time since 2nd jab was also reduced from 6 months to 3.
I couldn't re-book mine so it meant me waiting until 16th December while other people younger than me simply walked into a vaccine centre and got a booster there and then. I mean, it didn't make much difference, there was only 2 weeks in it really. The poor folk working at the centre I went to though were super busy - they'd had limited support or indeed notice , it was just a case of one day them working through booked slots, the next a queue of people out the door all wanting walk-in.
So the longer the backbenchers oppose anything, and BoJo continues to rely on labour's support to get anything in place, then it highlights the problems / divisions in the Tory party that the red tops have been banging on about in the Labour party for the last 3 years.
1. Urging the public to limit social mixing indoors, without legal enforcement
If this is the option then I suspect that a whole lot of people will get Xmas out of the way and then continue as normal.
2. Mandating curbs on household mixing, the return of social distancing and forcing pubs and restaurants to close at 20:00 GMT
Can someone explain the logic in the 8pm close? Last time they tried this (I think it was 10pm last time) it was chaos. Everyone just started drinking earlier and then everyone left at the same time so taxi's, train and buses were mental. The only effect was that it lost food based hospitality a load of money as they could only run 1 service and not 2.
3. A return to full lockdown
Unless it's for a short and clearly defined timescale, I just can't see that happening.
Not a bad idea.
70m people at £100 each you'd still have 30bn change from the test and trace budget. Provide that 100 quid in the form of vouchers to be spent in restaurants or other hospitality venues and you have a major economic stimulus targeted at the people who have been most affected by the pandemic.
3. A return to full lockdown
Unless it’s for a short and clearly defined timescale, I just can’t see that happening.
Yup, also, we have never been in a full lockdown tbh, at any point in this.
I booked my booster as soon as the system opened up to Under 50’s which was 21st November. The date I was given was 16th December, the nearest slot available.
In between that, the whole lot was opened up to walk-in and the time since 2nd jab was also reduced from 6 months to 3.
I couldn’t re-book mine so it meant me waiting until 16th December while other people younger than me simply walked into a vaccine centre and got a booster there and then. I mean, it didn’t make much difference, there was only 2 weeks in it really.
largely irrelevant now. but you could have rebooked. I originally got a slot on the 22nd and rebooked for the 9th.
you could also have walked in and then cancelled your booking.
Yup, also, we have never been in a full lockdown tbh, at any point in this.
we havent argued about this for a while
apart from a daily walk(/bike/run) from your home, alone or with your household,; how did what we had last spring not count as a full lockdown?
But back to the matter at hand
But No 10 did not deny reports that a number of ministers - including Chancellor Rishi Sunak - have pushed back against calls for action without more evidence of the impact the virus would have.
Do we think this is Rishi acting in the interests of the country's coffers, or in the interests in his bid to be PM?
Apparently one of the old unvaccinated patients is still ranting conspiracy theory bollocks between gasps for oxygen.
It was inappropriate of me to laugh at that, wasn't it?
how did what we had last spring not count as a full lockdown?
Depends on if your comparing to other European nations I suppose... Spain for example had their armed police checking IDs and for valid reasons for leaving the house. My family are constantly telling me how much harder the lock down restrictions were in Spain last spring.
I'm sure some other countries had a gentler 'full lockdown' than us.
apart from a daily walk(/bike/run) from your home, alone or with your household,; how did what we had last spring not count as a full lockdown?
Pkenty if countries didn't even allow you that.
You could still go to work if you couldn't work from home, no limit on time or distance for exercise in England etc etc
while other people younger than me simply walked into a vaccine centre and got a booster there and then.
Why didn't you then?
You could still go to work if you couldn’t work from home,
From a practical point of view, what jobs did this include where it was neccessary to work outside the home, still had customers/clients, and weren't "key workers".
apart from a daily walk(/bike/run) from your home, alone or with your household,; how did what we had last spring not count as a full lockdown?
I wasn't aware we'd argued about it, must've missed it, but getting to go to tesco as often as you want isn't really a lockdown in my book. Couple of roadie mates were knocking out centuries, some days double centuries.
Must admit, my fitness was at its highest during the first lockdown. Mental health at its best too.
Cant recall where I saw it now, but only 25-30% of the Scottish workforce worked from home.
Some stuff here from Apr 20
Some stuff here from April 21 (fig to looks at % by sector)
From a practical point of view, what jobs did this include where it was neccessary to work outside the home, still had customers/clients, and weren’t “key workers”.
Most factories around here, as far as I could tell. Quite a few office staff, including about 10% of our (HMRC) staff whose job either has to be done from the office or who couldn't work from home for space or welfare reasons.
Pretty sure I'd seen figures around 25% as piemonster mentions above.
There were certainly a fair few on here who were still working and putting the boot in to those of us lucky enough to be able to work from home
Must admit, my fitness was at its highest during the first lockdown. Mental health at its best too.
😄 Have to say my fitness and mental health were at there absolute worse - especially during the spring lockdown😄
Hardest I've worked with the longest hours, really don't want a repeat of it.
Cant recall where I saw it now, but only 25-30% of the Scottish workforce worked from home
confusingly formatted questions, but if you were fully furloughed* from a job, I would say you would answer as "no I did not work from home in that week"
*and actually, at the start, you had to be furloughed in 3 week chunks
It was inappropriate of me to laugh at that, wasn’t it?
No it wasn't, I've made one person laugh today which is good. The comments from our informant and Madame were were so inappropriate I didn't type them.
70m people at £100 each you’d still have 30bn change from the test and trace budget. Provide that 100 quid in the form of vouchers to be spent in restaurants or other hospitality venues and you have a major economic stimulus targeted at the people who have been most affected by the pandemic.
I think that would be too close to UBI for the tories to swallow, despite the net financial gain to government coffers, and ultimatley all of us.
Yep I didn't get furlough. Worked all the way through at a print works. Key worker obviously. Actually had my hours increased during lockdown. Roads were lovely and quiet for the commute.
Provide that 100 quid in the form of vouchers to be spent in restaurants or other hospitality venues and you have a major economic stimulus targeted at the people who have been most affected by the pandemic.
Genius.
Combine it with green cards.
Not only is it easier to go out for a meal if you’ve been vaccinated… it’s subsidised!
I’d add in paying people who isolate as well, as Labour have been calling for consistently throughout the pandemic. If you want people to isolate, make it easy for them. Don’t pay people to chase/check up on people, they’ll do it readily and willingly if they’re not losing money by doing so.
can someone remind me what the lag is between a positive pcr test and confirming what variant it is? Am assuming confirmed omicron cases are several days behind
BBC:
No new measures but situation under constant review - PM
Boris Johnson has just been speaking after this afternoon's cabinet meeting.He says ministers agree the current situation is "extremely difficult".
"The arguments either way are finely balanced," he says noting that cases of Omicron are "surging and hospitalisations are rising quite steeply in London".
He says that the government will keep data under "constant review" and that "we will have to reserve the possibility of taking further action to protect the public and our NHS".
"We won't hesitate to take action," he says. urging the public to exercise caution and get vaccinated.
"It could not be more urgent," he adds.
Asked what kind of measures the government will take he replies: "We're looking at all kinds of things... we will rule nothing out."
“We won’t hesitate to take action,” he says.
Who believes that?
urging the public to exercise caution
Waffle and piffle.
and get vaccinated
Pretty clear that we need more than that right now.
But yes, get vaccinated, or boosted, as soon as you can.
My 20 old daughter has managed to get a booster booking tomorrow.
Pretty clear they’re throwing everything at the vaccination programme now.
Getting one thing right…
“We won’t hesitate to take action,” in an interview where he is announcing that he is hesitating to take action.
