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I see someone in Burnley was knicked two days ago for coughing and spitting on police after being stopped in a group; v. classy - got 26 weeks inside.
self employed announcement due today, hearing they'll be doing up to 1700 quid, based on 3 years. fair play if so. Find out so enough though.
Interesting theory on the Italians and the smoking. The numbers for Italy are running about 10% death rate for the number of cases.
In case no-one's seen the running total, have you seen this on Youtube?
Interesting theory on the Italians and the smoking. The numbers for Italy are running about 10% death rate for the number of cases.
Was on a call with my company's chief medical officer and he talked about Italy. One of the theories, along with smoking, is that they have much more social interaction between young and old in Italy, either at family gatherings, grandparents living with younger generations, much more densely packed apartment style living etc. They've been comparing Italy against Germany and this was apparently one of the demonstrable differences.
I'll be cross if it's £1700 for self employed but £2500 for employed. Why the difference?
I see someone in Burnley was knicked two days ago for coughing and spitting on police after being stopped in a group; v. classy – got 26 weeks inside.
Do police stations still have those conveniently placed staircases down to custody cells?
I’ll be cross if it’s £1700 for self employed but £2500 for employed. Why the difference?
We pay less tax apparently
32% less according to the £1700 vs £2500
Which is nonsense
Because self employed don't have the employment benefits that wage slaves have, and that takes it into account?
they have much more social interaction between young and old in Italy, either at family gatherings, grandparents living with younger generations, much more densely packed apartment style living etc.
That's more plausible than 'they don't wash their hands so often'
supernova
Member
I’ll be cross if it’s £1700 for self employed but £2500 for employed. Why the difference?
I couldn't care less tbh, long as we get something to see us through.
Don't take that as gospel though, it was just hearsay from another forum. So might well be nonsense.
My understanding (which may be wrong) is that it’s 80% of GROSS pay up to £2500 for employed people. So assuming that no furloughed workers will actually see £2500 a month in their bank accounts, that’s just the max. cost to the government of what they will actually pay out PLUS tax and NI income that they’ll lose (but arguably would have lost anyway as people became unemployed).
If they don’t tax the self employed on the £1700 payment then it’ll be much the same I guess?
I’d expect something like that. To be honest I’d be happy with something more than the current SSP offer. That’s less than 1/2 my day rate but for a whole week.
I don’t expect to see anything near what I normally bill but a bit more help would be nice.
Im certainly glad that I’ve not taken the piss with my tax return in the last 7 years of self employment, all those guys claiming for every cup of coffee or pair of socks, or ‘loosing’ invoices are going to regret it pretty soon I reckon.
I guess it depends on accounting - how does the payment due get calculated for those that pay themselves minimum wage, but take the rest in dividends / expenses?
Re Handwashing. Any old soap is good enough, it's the mechanical action of washing your hands for 20secs that does the most good. The outside of the virus is made of fat, so the soap will break that down quite effectively, but scrubbing will do more.
I’ll be cross if it’s £1700 for self employed but £2500 for employed. Why the difference?
[troll]Because according the the tax returns, most self employed people only earn minimum wage so it's plenty?[/troll]
https://forestryandland.gov.scot/covid-19
Looks like all Scottish Forestry bike trails are now closed. Walking trails remain open.
Re Handwashing. Any old soap is good enough, it’s the mechanical action of washing your hands for 20secs that does the most good. The outside of the virus is made of fat, so the soap will break that down quite effectively, but scrubbing will do more.
Source?
Why the difference?
I‘d be happy for both to have lower limits, but it be super crystal clear when and how everyone would be getting the help. Including people sent home without pay this week, and those on zero hour contracts, whatever their situation this week, next week, last year, three years ago… just give everyone the same, small, short term safety buffer.
[troll]Because according the the tax returns, most self employed people only earn minimum wage so it’s plenty?[/troll]
🙂
Looks like all Scottish Forestry bike trails are now closed. Walking trails remain open.
I don't see the difference 😉
Anyway... essential lifestyle tips that most of us need (I know I do - and by the looks of it, all of my neighbours)
Your guide to holding out till midday before starting to drink
😀
I guess it depends on accounting – how does the payment due get calculated for those that pay themselves minimum wage, but take the rest in dividends / expenses?
I'm a one man band Ltd company, I'd also be interested in that. I'm PAYE and take the rest in dividend.
Things are moving fast so I was waiting for all the info to become available before delving in too much.
Yes, I'm a scumbag tax dodger, paying 19% instead of 20% on earnings from 12500 to 50,000.
TOTAL SPECULATION HEALTH WARNING
My guess is the self employed rate is governed by the parameters of the system being used to pay out. The assumption is you have to work with the tools you have.
PAYE is relatively easy - it's basically just reversing the flow of PAYE pipe. Instead of 20% tax at basic rate it's returning 80% as 'wage'.
For self employed - could it be they are going to reverse the flow of the construction industry scheme? Yes, it doesn't cover everyone - hence speculation - much better to wait for the announcements.
This is all based on the rumour of two different rates - above.
We can make up the £800 with cash jobs.
Still with the speculation health warning - did the PAYE announcement include anything to say if NI would be levied on the 80% 'wage? It could be PAYE and SE are both going to be paying their NI just at different points?
It is really all just wait for the announcement.
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/12/science-soap-kills-coronavirus-alcohol-based-disinfectants < Notsource. I know that article like the back of my washed hands since I first asked myself the question of whether the need to handwash was for the mechanical effect. Poster says "Re Handwashing. Any old soap is good enough, it’s the mechanical action of washing your hands for 20secs that does the most good. The outside of the virus is made of fat, so the soap will break that down quite effectively, but scrubbing will do more." Article says "Washing the virus off with water alone might work. But water is not good at competing with the strong, glue-like interactions between the skin and the virus. Water isn’t enough. Soapy water is totally different...." I'm sure water is better than nothing and prolonged water better than just water but soap is the key ingredient here.
Still with the speculation health warning – did the PAYE announcement include anything to say if NI would be levied on the 80% ‘wage? It could be PAYE and SE are both going to be paying their NI just at different points?
It is really all just wait for the announcement.
I had assumed that the 80% wage would be taxed, NIed, Student loaned, and child maintained and so on - just as if that was your actual wage.
Saves a whole host of future problems, plus it means the gov can state a higher figure that they've given out; knowing that a lot will be coming straight back in taxation.
For many, 80% will take them below minimum wage and for an even larger number out of paying tax completely.
I had assumed that the 80% wage would be taxed, NIed, Student loaned, and child maintained and so on – just as if that was your actual wage.
I guess that's something that we discover more of as details come out. I hadn't given it much more thought terms of different deductions other than NI. I'd just assumed if the gov was giving money back it wouldn't give a full amount just to take tax again.
For many, 80% will take them below minimum wage and for an even larger number out of paying tax completely.
true - for now. How many months are we expecting this to go on for? Over the whole 2020 tax year they'll hopefully be back close to what they should have earnt (recession permitting)
A lot of people on minimum wage can easily spend 20% of their money on just travelling to work.
Does anyone else find it odd Russia doesn't seem to be affected much by Covid-19 (yet at least), I've not heard it mentioned once in the news and it's low down on the infection & deaths charts. Not hinting at some crazy bio-weapon conspiracy just seems strange that with a population that's mostly in cities, a fairly poor health system and an already high mortality rate in the elderly they haven't seen higher spread yet. Possibly they locked down their borders quickly?
Well, Putin was seen visiting a hospital in a full hazmat suit, so they must be badly affected.
Some good news. (Sorry it's behind a paywall.)
We're potentially looking at under 20k deaths, up to 2/3s of them would have died within 6 months anyway.
The virus death toll could end up being “substantially lower” than 20,000, with most of the fatalities in people who would have died later this year anyway, a government adviser has said.
Neil Ferguson, the Imperial College London scientist whose research precipitated tougher government measures last week, told MPs: “It [the deaths of those who would have died anyway] might be as much as half or two thirds of the deaths we see, because these are people at the end of their lives or who have underlying conditions.”
He told Today on BBC Radio 4 this morning: “We’re going to have a very difficult few weeks in which NHS services will be intensely stressed but won’t break.
Also, not many of us will agree with the article below, but it does raise one interesting question, as this progresses will we actually see a spike in death rates anywhere? Maybe not. Even Italy the average age of victims is pretty much the average life expectancy.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think
Well, Putin was seen visiting a hospital in a full hazmat suit
Well that's it then. He's defeated the virus.
Does anyone else find it odd Russia doesn’t seem to be affected much by Covid-19 (yet at least)
Russian state apparatus has never* been economical with the truth.
* well, aside from that time the power station, but what's a gazillian cancer cases between friends.
I call bollocks on that Spectator article. Sure 2000-3000 people a day die anyhow but seeasonal flu does not go through old people's homes at this rate. Covid 19 is much more infectious and a lot more deadly on very simple evidence from the homes. In Spain and France once it's in a home it's killing a higher proportion than even the 2003 heat wave according to the news. 20 out of 120 patients in one home died in a few days. Oh and those that die in the homes aren't in the official statistics if they aren't cases confirmed by testing.
up to 2/3s of them would have died within 6 months anyway.
Even if this figure was true, which I seriously doubt, so what?
Just let the old folks die, huh? They’ve had a good run. And let’s just ignore the thousands of young and middle aged people that will die from this… or live the rest of their lives with seriously impaired lungs.
I hate this talk, it’s despicable and dangerous. Act to stop the spread of the virus, not spread the false idea that is not a serious threat.
Russian state apparatus has never* been economical with the truth.
* well, aside from that time the power station, but what’s a gazillian cancer cases between friends.
And the other nucleaar power plant, and the submarine, and the other submarine, and the airliner...oh;-)
Think I'd tend to agree.
The article tries to compare the deaths count "now" to the current infection count. An infection has to completely play out, so the two current figures are not really something you can compare. Deaths "now" vs infections "ten days ago" is more like it.
Also no mention of the extent of testing performed in different countries which really does account for massive variation in infection count.
Anyway, fine, if it turns out not so many people die as we thought, great.
Anyway, fine, if it turns out not so many people die as we thought, great
If less people die it's because the confinement strategy has finally been adopted which means that the NHS (or your local health service) may just have enough equipment to cope (though I doubt it, the lockdown came too late). The virus won't change, the way it's dealt with can be. If France is anything to go by the UK can expect the shit to hit the fan on hospital capacity in about 3 days.
concur.
Anyway, fine, if it turns out not so many people die as we thought, great.
Yeah, I *thought* I was sharing some good news.
You can never predict how STW are going to react. 🙂
that spectator article raises some good points , we dont know the full picture yet but thats exactly why his assertions seem wrong to make, for example when he says that age of death is 'only' 7.5 years lower than average age normally, thats a huge amount, countries spend £billions on healthcare to increase life expectancy by much smaller mounts.
Death rate is only half the picture, people that leave ITU have been through a very punishing time, their bodies can take a very long time to recover & may require lifelong medical intervention
we dont know the full picture yet but thats exactly why his assertions seem wrong to make,
It really doesn't feel like the right time - it just feels like an interlude whilst we wait to see what happens with the numbers in the next couple of weeks. Also just seeing how the movement restrictions work out.
How are we doing on the Italy curve?
It seems that southern Italy is about to go off.
I read the Spectator article & then see pictures of an ice rink having to be turned into a morgue and think. "Hnmmm. That's right, we are over-reacting"
The essential problem with his article is that he doesn't know for sure that he is right... & if he is wrong then lots of people have died. By all means, if it transpires that it isn't as bad as it might be then great, relax the measures, but we certainly aren't at that stage yet.
I also notice that his best case scenario is a mortality rate of 0.25-0.5% which he describes as in the normal range for flu, whereas the seasonal flu average is 0.1%. Looks like he is deliberately playing it down.
How are we doing on the Italy curve?
It seems that southern Italy is about to go off.
Rate of new infections is slowing down but still increasing. It remains to be seen whether there will be a second widespread outbreak in southern Italy.
The country to really watch is the USA. If their current trend continues they will top 120,000 case by Monday and have the most cases in the world (although it is out of a much larger population than Italy or Spain)
I wonder how the orange idiot will act then.
[ooops… posted this to the wrong thread before ]
Hmm… self employed who may have already seen their income come to a halt can apply in June for help from the HRMC… so assuming it’ll take “some time” for HRMC to process the applications… that could be, what, six months without income for some? Bloody hell.
June for help from the HRMC
I thought there was also a deferral of the July payment to January(?). An expectation that SE workers are saving enough to meet the July payment can now use this? It's all going to be in the details.
Doesn't help those with no money now.
What if you paid it all this January? July is the latest you can pay the second instalment, not a scheduled payment date.
[ I haven’t, I’ve held back as I was expecting that measure to come ]
.
All the well paid contractors are not part of this HRMC scheme.
Its been a couple of years since I had to deal with SA tax. It was you made two payments a year - one January and one July.
I think they were each 50% of your previous years bill. For example 2018/19 tax year - you make one payment against this in July 19 and the second in January 20. The payments would be based on amount of tax paid in 17/18. By the end of January you also had to pay any outstanding tax on the 18/19 return. So you may find you need to pay more or you may find you get money back as you'd paid more than the amount owed.
a big f you to the newly self employed. That can't stand surely?
I put a tax return in for 18/19, but it's complicated, cause it wasn't that much for the self employed part, just starting up, and it's complicated with wages and redundancy payments. That year majority of my money didn't come from self employed, but I did do a tax return.
But they just get to ignore the whole year of 19/20, I've been self employed?
Feeling like I'm going to get heavily shafted here.
First payment on account due by end of Jan, second due by end of July. You can pay as early as you like.
Feeling like I’m going to get heavily shafted here.
Yes, you are. But they can only go by on the record tax returns, not what you expected to do. Plenty of people recently lost their PAYE jobs are just as screwed.
Which is why a low but universal income for three months for everyone would be better for ensuring people don’t go hungry or seriously without in any way. Paying some 7.5K and others next to none, because they fall through the cracks, stinks to me.
DrJ - are you comparing like with like?
Does your comparison take into account paid holiday, employers pension contributions and other benefits which come with perm jobs?
Taking a contractors day rate and assuming 5 days a week for 52 weeks is not a valid comparison.
The typical base for a comparison is day rate for 46 weeks vs perm salary plus all benefits.
Is the self employed help really only for those that made less than £50k profit? Surely that's irrelevant given the payments are capped anyway. I don't believe the help for those in employment placed any salary restriction???
kelvin
SubscriberYes, you are. But they can only go by on the record tax returns, not what you expected to do.
19/20 is the last 12 months, I'm not expecting to do anything. I've earned it, and can put a tax return on the 1st of April. ie in 6 days time.
That’s right Bob. There’s obvious logic in not helping big self employed “earners” though. The lack of a (wage) limit for PAYE is to try and stop companies laying people off.
First payment on account due by end of Jan, second due by end of July. You can pay as early as you like.
You're right, I said it had been a while.
John Hopkins now showing confirmed cases at 510k; US numbers are rising rapidly and, at current rate of growth, will overtake both Italy and China within 24 hours.
With Russia downplaying their numbers, extremely low numbers in Africa and S America the 510k looks to be a significant understatement.
For the Tim Martin haterz, mr jd wetherspoon has let us know we wont be being paid for beer supplied, and sold by his co pre corona virus.
Think we have January's money in, but not February's and won't be seeing March invoices paid any time soon
He really is an utter and complete twunt, isn't he?
I don’t believe the help for those in employment placed any salary restriction???
It didn’t, but it’ll only pay up to £2500 per month, so £30k ish.
Any chance there's another self employed thread? Prefer this one to be CV info and thoughts tbh...
So, been invited to a medical exam in connection with my injury claim on 4th April.
Much as I'd like to get this thing finished, I'm not convinced a trip to a private clinic is essential travel at the moment? Not really a medical need as such.
For the Tim Martin haterz, mr jd wetherspoon has let us know we wont be being paid for beer supplied, and sold by his co pre corona virus.
Think we have January’s money in, but not February’s and won’t be seeing March invoices paid any time soon
Keep an eye on Brian Moore’s twitter feed. Martin owes him/pit bull brewery (not sure how much of it he owns etc.) £20k which he tweeted about today - all gone down well of course. 😀
So. Are we all going to be joining the round of applause at 8 tonight?
So, been invited to a medical exam in connection with my injury claim on 4th April.
Much as I’d like to get this thing finished, I’m not convinced a trip to a private clinic is essential travel at the moment? Not really a medical need as such.
I'd go, you might not get another appointment for 3-4 months.
In your case I'd take Essential = Not Frivolous.
And the people who would otherwise not have died, had their dermatologist/oncologist/rheumatologist/... not been drafted into stemming the tide of respiratory failure patients?
There is always opportunity cost. My sister was in the ITU for nine weeks with sepsis and ARDS. She survived, but despite daily care, nobody noticed the large mole on her leg. That killed her five years later.
Interesting theory on the Italians and the smoking.
Also the average age of the population and that Italy has one third of all deaths in Europe attributed to antibiotic resistance which is a factor if people develop pneumonia.
It looks like the USA is heading for a complete catastrophe, thanks the the Moron-In-Chief, and his ass-licking bunch of sycophants; of course, everything is going to be hunky-dory by the beginning of April...
Also the average age of the population and that Italy has one third of all deaths in Europe attributed to antibiotic resistance which is a factor if people develop pneumonia.
They would have a similar problem in the US?
So.
We did.
The stats in a couple of years will make for interesting reading. For example, will the lives saved by fewer car accidents / reduced air pollution / increased exercise outweigh those lost to the virus?
Bit emotional that. Fireworks and applause echoing around
Had a tear in my eye when I see the whole street out not helped as I’m wrecked this week. Still I have beer now so all is good.
A numbers question - using the 25th March figures:
Total known cases = 9,529
Daily increase = 1,452
Recovered = 135
Total Deaths = 463
Just over 8,900 still ill? Assuming the recovered is a total figure - Gov.Uk dashboard doesn't indicated it's daily. How is the recovery figure changing over time?
There was a figure quoted last week about the number of unknown infected. I think it was around 4x the known infected figure. Was there ever anything more on that?
We popped out to have a clap, not knowing if we'd hear any others since the houses on our road are a bit spaced out. Was brilliant though - could hear loads of clapping from all over.
Thanks Drac and everyone else at the pointy end of this. Not just for this virus thing, for everything.