We needed masks and distancing to remain while the alternative medical protections and treatments, like those on the last page, were developed and made available. But, you know, that would have required some forward thinking and more importantly, some backbone.
Spending 5 hours on a train in a mask yesterday wasn't a lot of fun, but the majority managed it.
I think that posted about our family testing positive earlier on in this thread (maybe it was another Covid one)
We went away with my parents at the very end of July....my girlfriend had the sniffles but assumed it was just that she was run down as she'd worked 70 hours the week before, she did a negative LFT.
She then tested positive they day week got back, I tested negative lateral flow, but positive PCR. Ditto my parents. This was July 30th.
We all got fatigue, loss of taste and smell, I had a cough as did my Dad. Me and my girlfriend are both still getting over in now really 3 plus weeks on, I've woken up absolutely wiped out today again. We're both single jabbed (our second jab was scheduled for the day after we tested positive). My Dad actually bounced back really quickly, much our surprise as he's really not looked after himself, he's 67 and double AZ jabbed.
Then there's my mum, again double AZ jabbed and aged 63. She still works etc. She got taken into hospital 8th August, and was in until Friday just gone. She had sounded a bit better on the phone on Friday tbf. On Sunday she sounded as bad as ever, and on Monday morning she was back in A and E with blood clots on both lungs. I just find it ****ing bonkers that 'everything is back to normal'.
Best wishes to your mum Tom, tough times fella. 🙁
Today’s figures in Scotland are a bit worrying when they will precede the path of the uk as a whole. This must be way under the actual figure with all the asymptomatic vaccinated people. We are trying to get a test appointment for our youngest. Closest appointment 30miles away.
Cheers Greg, yeah certainly not the summer we'd planned.
Echoing nobeer's post, hoping your mum is on the mend very soon mate.
I am now resigned to the fact that Covid is going to "hit" my little bubble of family at some point.
I'm still ultra careful BUT my grandson and son are now back in my and my 91 year old mother's life...
I'm scared for my mum but I want her to have a relationship with her great grandson and rebuilt it with her grandson after we shielded for so long.
I honestly can't make a decent risk assessment in my head now. It's scary, complex and confusing.
I'm dreading winter on many levels.
I've not posted for a while, various reasons but having now had it despite being double jabbed I'm ever more of the opinion this is far from over, and we're putting our fingers in our ears and heading into winter not listening.
I caught it from one of my kids a fortnight ago and I'm sure many will say I had it lightly. I still have a cough now, and I'm also very tired, most days I'm sleeping at least a couple of times during the day. The worst of the symptoms for me in the 'while I had it' period was nausea, I hate that feeling and it stops you concentrating, enjoying any food or a cup of tea.....yuk. Thankfully that's mainly gone.
Anyway, I'm alarmed by the rates being seen from the Euros, Boardmasters, Latitude, etc.......with the return to schools yet to come. How many will result from Reading and Leeds this weekend? I realise the rates of hosp and deaths is way lower but it is still a numbers game and the long covid in particular resulting from this many infections is a major concern, as is the transmission in what are mainly outdoor events.
Add in the effect of waning immunity https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58322882 and the risk of these widespread infections getting to the most vulnerable before they can be reimmunised.....
I see on the basis of what's happening in Scotland, NS is already messaging the possibility of restrictions being needed and much as I don't want that, I think it's looking more likely.
but having now had it despite being double jabbed I’m ever more of the opinion this is far from over
[/facepalm]
why facepalm?
Increase in numbers in Scotland is simple - schools went back. Just waiting for the rest of UK to ‘catch up’.
More worrying the report that the effectiveness of the AZ vaccine is starting to wane - only 2/3 after 6 months means that we’re going to start seeing those first inoculated starting to catch it. All that jingoistic, flag-shagging nonsense about AZ and being ahead of the EU is about to smack us around the face. Roll your sleeves up, boosters for crimbo.
I’m ever more of the opinion this is far from over, and we’re putting our fingers in our ears and heading into winter not listening.
It was never over. Furthermore, reports in the news today of the vaccine protection starting to wear off from 12% after 4 months, and the first vaccine recipients being at only 50% protection by Winter. Add the Flu season, and Winter ‘21 looks like another rough ride - boosters will be needed.
The case for masks and sanitation to continue is as high as it ever was.
How many will result from Reading and Leeds this weekend?
On the one hand, I can’t believe they are still going ahead after news we’ve seen from Cornwall, with Cornwall now asking people to stay away if possible - those events are super spreader events with people then taking the virus around the country. On the other hand, several of my middle aged friends are happily posting FB pics of Festivals they’ve attended or are about to attend. I can’t understand the mind set tbh.
enjoying any food or a cup of tea…..yuk
Read Tom’s post, that’s a minor inconvenience to be grateful of. Tom, best wishes for your mum.
Yep, that's my fear among the more vulnerable that the conversion factors of cases -> hosp -> deaths are starting to change with waning immunity.
All that jingoistic, flag-shagging nonsense about AZ and being ahead of the EU is about to smack us around the face. Roll your sleeves up, boosters for crimbo.
As has been intended. Unfashionable as it is to say it here, vaccine delivery in the UK has been our only success story in this pandemic.
We've all tested negative with LFTs after our long weekend in Edinburgh. Will do another test tomorrow before I see my parents.
I'm not sure Scottish schools have been back long enough to pin the blame for the increase there on schools, I expect its people's desperation for things to be normal.
I expect masks and distancing to be reintroduced this autumn, but too late to be any use. My parents have been dithering about getting tneir wills and PoAs reviewed all summer and they need to do it asap. Their age and minor underlying conditions, plus declining protection from the vaccine, mean that I'm expecting their luck to run out this winter, so plan for the worst and hope to be surprised. Will have to think carefully about how they see the grandkids when school returns.
Antibody protection from the vaccines appears to halve every two months. A number of studies have shown that antibodies wane with time, irrespective of the vaccine given. There is nothing unusual about this. What matters is the absolute level needed in mucosa to provide protection, and whether our immune cells can be sustained to make these antibodies on a long-term basis.
A recent study in the US by the Mayo clinic has shown this from data in Minnesota. This should come as no surprise whatsoever. We are reinfected by Coronaviruses all the time as our immunity wanes. Since none of us adults have had SASRS-CoV2 infections as children, the first infection, and possibly second and third may be nasty (or not, we have risk factors but some of us are just unlucky in the COVID lottery). Think of the vaccine and the boosters as giving those historic infections, and boosters become a bit of a no-brainer.
Also, do not forget that the AZ vaccine provided 62% efficacy against symptomatic infection and the mRNA vaccines 90-95%. They are not comparable, but AZ is likely 'good enough'. Personally, I believe that the vaccine arena has seen a seismic technological shift.
TomB - I really hope your mum fully recovers soon. I am not far off her age and still work.
Having to stop at T-bay services on Monday was a bad experience. No distancing, the entrance was blocked with people milling around, queuing, hardly any wearing masks and only myself using the sanitiser on the way into the loo.
Yes we have to find that line of having some sort of life again but keeping others safe, it's not that hard.
Thank you everyone for the kind wishes,just got off the phone to her and she sounded in remarkably good spirits all things considered.
We'll never know if it was the return to school that has caused the Scottish case rise as this was done in parallel with a further relaxation of the restrictions, including festivals, sport facilities etc.and the case rate was ready high when that decision was taken.
Looks like my Mrs and I will be going into some sort of semi-isolation for the next 6 months or so. One last (outdoor) pub night this week I reckon 😁
Hope you mum makes a recovery Tom.
we’re putting our fingers in our ears and heading into winter not listening
We wasted the opportunity the schools summer holidays offered us to drive down infections. And that wasn’t an oversight, it was a deliberate political choice. The mess that this academic year will be for youngsters, and the poor health outcomes for many of them and their families this term, was chosen by a government that wanted to get on with their own holidays abroad, to pursue a herd immunity by infection by stealth policy, and to signal strength and “freedom” to its voters by prematurely dropping mandated mask use in public places come what may.
she sounded in remarkably good spirits all things considered
Glad to hear this. I hope she makes a good recovery Tom.
but having now had it despite being double jabbed I’m ever more of the opinion this is far from over
[/facepalm]
why facepalm?
I'm not sure what that meant either. @Larry_Lamb ??
How many times can we catch covid? We've had it, isolated, recovered, gone to a wedding, caught it again, all within weeks. Is this a sustainable life. Kids are back at school next week so (based on last term) it's likely we'll be up to three infections in six weeks!
Is this just life now?
(double AZ jabbed)
How many times can we catch covid?
How many times do you catch a cold? Or flu?
As I understand it, they are all similar viruses. Hygiene, masks and distancing reduce the chances of catching them all, people with them issuing helps more.
Oh, I manage to go through some winters linking one cold straight to another, it's tedious. I don't treat covid 19 like a cold though given the severity of illness it can cause.
They are both types of coronavirus though. (Still expecting to be corrected for having misunderstood)
So, with the new cases above 35,000 today its seems that Wednesdays are the new Tuesdays - its the day when cases rise, then they drop again Saturday to Tuesday.
Anyone know why that is?
Anyone know why that is?
People do dumb stiff Friday and Saturday nights, feel shit Sunday or Monday, get tested Tuesday and reported Wednesday?
A wild guess, doubt it kicks in so quickly.
Is this just life now?
Your example is an extreme in terms of frequency but yes, expect to be infected with this or flu or the cold many times during your life.
Case,hospitalizations and deaths are all currently falling in the Leeds area so not everything is doom and gloom and covid has just crept back into the top 10 causes of death in England and Wales,vaccination has been a game changer and I for one am glad to get back to something like the old normal
I’m not sure what that meant either. @Larry_Lamb ??
The surprise that he got infected, even when double jabbed.
The fact he thought this might be over anytime soon.
Nowhere did I say I was surprised I got it.
I knew it would happen eventually. I was making the point that despite being double jabbed I found it pretty debilitating for the last 2 weeks. Certainly not as bad as some but equally not a minor inconvenience. Worse than I thought it would be when i got the positive test; and I count myself as relatively young, healthy, and also only 2 months since I had my jabs.
I also never said i thought it was over. I've consistently said that it's eventually something we will have to deal with but with the waning immunities among the first jabbed I'm increasingly of the opinion that we will have another wave and it's reinforced my belief in that seeing recent stats and reports.
Gov should be preparing for restrictions once the effect of colder weather and kids going back to school factor in. But there's a collective fingers in ears right now.
Gov should be preparing for restrictions once the effect of colder weather and kids going back to school factor in.
We could have an annual lockdown, make it into a national winter holiday. We could do with some more bank holidays in the latter part of the year.
Gov should be preparing for restrictions once the effect of colder weather and kids going back to school factor in. But there’s a collective fingers in ears right now.
Interesting how we have gone from kids don't transmit the virus, school are safe and aren't a driver of infection last year to school are spreading the infection and could cause the next wave.
The brief wave of Delta that spread in Brisbane was very much spread through schoolkids.
Interesting how we have gone from kids don’t transmit the virus, school are safe and aren’t a driver of infection last year to school are spreading the infection and could cause the next wave
I can't work out who the we is in that?
We could have an annual lockdown, make it into a national winter holiday. We could do with some more bank holidays in the latter part of the year.
My hope would be that with some sensible restrictions we can avoid another lockdown. But the less we do to control it while we still have time on our side, the more likely the need for stronger restrictions later. Nothing I see in the stats, from England, Scotland or eg: Israel is making me feel particularly that we are facing up to that.
But the less we do to control it while we still have time on our side, the more likely the need for stronger restrictions later. Nothing I see in the stats, from England, Scotland or eg: Israel is making me feel particularly that we are facing up to that.
Which was the complete failure of government in March, summer, October and December last year. I'm not hopeful.
Eldest (single jabbed) has tested positive on LFT this morning - been snuffly since we came back from the Edinburgh Fringe on Monday. PCR tests ordered for all of us. Cancelled plans for meeting up with family and friends today. He was due his second jab next week as well.
Interesting how we have gone from kids don’t transmit the virus, school are safe and aren’t a driver of infection last year to school are spreading the infection and could cause the next wave
I'm sure there's a large part of the rapid increase in numbers up here down to nightclubs and restrictions lifting in pubs, not just schools.
90 seats per carriage on a train, estimated Covid rate in England of 1 case per 80 people. Of those 90 people, none are wearing masks and they're squished together in a small space with limited ventilation for several hours or more.
I’m sure there’s a large part of the rapid increase in numbers up here down to nightclubs and restrictions lifting in pubs, not just schools.
Think the quote from the medical people up there is that by relaxing everything at once it's impossible to pinpoint the things that have contributed most. Which is handy if you want to keep insisting schools are safe but want to avoid too much data suggesting otherwise.
Intentional or incompetent, take your pick.
90 seats per carriage on a train, estimated Covid rate in England of 1 case per 80 people. Of those 90 people, none are wearing masks and they’re squished together in a small space with limited
I'm on my first trip to the office since December 2019.
Flew from Glasgow to Gatwick. At Gatwick I got the train to Brighton. No one wearing a mask on the train (apart from me)
Here in Brighton, masks are almost non existent. Staff in hotels, bars, restaurants and shops aren't wearing them. Public aren't wearing them anywhere inside or outside. I actually feel awkward wearing one anywhere.
I'm dreading going to London tomorrow.
Exactly how I felt in the Lakes last week Bob.
Trains from Derby to Edinburgh and back had maybe 25-33% wearing masks. Majority of staff seemed to be wearing masks in shops and restaurants etc.
Public aren’t wearing them anywhere inside or outside. I actually feel awkward wearing one anywhere.
Glad not just me, I still wear a mask in shops.
Most have signs say "though not mandatory we'd prefer you to wear on to protect our staff" or words very similar.
Have notice mask wearing slowly reducing though not so fast in supermarkets.
Dreading the start of term, was bad enough with colds and flu type virus spreading about.
It feels like a perfect storm of double jab effectiveness on the wain and younger adults only single jabbed and more likely to transmit (Delta variant at least).
Hmm after writing that it explains a bit of anxiety about going back next week.
I’m dreading going to London tomorrow.
I'd really like to know how it is. I'm in outer London and the mask wearing here and when I've been into town a couple of time including train and tubes has been pretty good.
It seems in some way to be regional or geographical even in small pockets. I noted the comments a couple of pages back about some Services with little adherence - I went in one recently and it was completely the opposite.
*waves from Sydney*
We are still in lockdown. It's kind-of a two-tier thing: The suburbs which were of greatest concern are in "maximum" lockdown, everyone else is still in a full lockdown, but with some allowances regarding exercise outside your home etc. "maximum" areas also have a nighttime curfew to make it easier for Police to enforce the stay at home orders - there are pretty hefty fines for people breaking the rules ($3,000 I think?) and they are handing them out like biscuits.
Schools are all closed (except for kids of essential workers) - but childcare centers remain open. You're not allowed out of your suburb (or 5km of your home - whichever is greater) - which is shit because I live 10km from the beach, so can't go surfing.
Even with that level of restriction - Delta (it's all delta) cases are rising steadily, we cracked 1000 new cases in a day yesterday (back to 882 today). We are generally seeing 2-5 deaths a day at the moment - mostly elderly, non-jabbed, but a few younger people, and some who've had their first dose (recently, I'm guessing)
The huge majority of those cases are within the "max" lockdown areas - but I'd like to understand how many of these are household contacts vs community transmissions. It looks like the household transmission rate of Delta is basically 100% - but we are getting much less data from our track-and-trace system these days, as they have had to focus it on the most important transmission events.
The vaccination roll-out has really picked-up pace. As predicted, the threat of circulating virus, and a (small) number of people dying every day has motivated a lot of people to get vaccinated, particularly convincing them to get the AZ vaccine (of which we have plenty) rather than waiting for their preferred Pfizer (of which we had very little). The pfizer jabs that we had were diverted to 16 year old's to allow them to sit their HSCs. We are seeing the supplies of pfizer pick-up a bit now, and are being offered to 16-39 year olds.
NSW (and more widely, Australia) have transitioned from our previous strategy of "use targeted lockdowns and track/trace to maintain zero cases", to "use lockdowns and track/trace to slow the spread of the virus until 70-80% are vaccinated". However, the Australian people haven't made that switch in their heads: They still think that by locking down hard(er) they can get cases back to zero, and then go back to life as normal. The government is pushing messages about what the unlocking will look like (starting in a few weeks), including a plan to re-open schools published today - something thats particularly welcome as my little girl is due to start at kindergardten after christmas. People are up-in-arms as all they can see are cases rising, people dying every day (remember, we have been almost a year without a single covid death), and a lockdown which they believe isn't harsh enough...... and now the government is talking about removing restrictions?!
The piece that people can't grasp, is that covid has changed: Even with a ban on international travel, quarantine, internal border closures, curfews, work from home orders, school closures...... this thing spreads. Vaccination has always been the only strategy, and even then, there are still going to be background deaths because the virus will still circulate within the vaccinated population. But when you baseline expectation (cases and deaths) is zero..... accepting that is very difficult for most people.
Me? Having followed the pandemic from a UK perspective, I'm comfortable with where we are now and what we are doing. I do find it slightly ironic that the UK ballsed up almost everything EXCEPT the vaccine roll-out, and Australia got almost everything right, but ballsed up the vaccine roll out. Still, having basically zero restrictions throughout the pandemic until now (except for international travel restrictions) I would rather have been in Australia than anywhere else.
