So my ex is with our 7 year old kids, an hours drive away. From the new rules I don’t get to see them whilst this is in force. Small issue if it’s only for a few weeks, and if she can manage with both full time childcare and a full time job. Is this sort of thing an exception that will be announced, or an example of “it doesn’t apply to me because”?
Can I go to my shop tomorrow to secure it and remove all the money and perishables?
Yup, unless you can do it from home in which case you have to do that.
I have a Cycle Workshop (virtually no retail) and service quite a lot of bikes used for commuting (far more than we do leisure bikes), we've been operating a distancing policy and are ramping it up (including keeping the door locked and allowing pre-booked only in), given the amount of people who use us to keep their commuting bike running should we still be open?
I'm fully prepared to close up for as long as required but I'm also mindful of not letting people down who need us, a large portion of the commuters are travelling to fulfilment centres (Amazon etc) and the local supermarkets to work (essential staff), and a suprising amount of doctors.
I'm properly torn between doing the right thing and doing the necessary thing. We were already planning on only having one of us at the workshop at a time anyway and just doing servicing and essential jobs but we are properly concerned with how we should proceed.
Also, is going next door to complain about loud music allowed? If not then can I just let loose and if they come knocking get them arrested? (Erm - asking for a friend).
In France we have forms to fill to give the reasons to go out. If for work you also need a certificate from employer to say you can’t wfh citing all the laws etc…
Police check it. I have been controlled once in 6 days and 1000s of fines have been given.
Wow I haven't seen a policeman yet, but then I've only been out 3 times as there's more than enough to be doing around the house and garden (chômage technique)
I'm not looking forward to doing the weekly shop tomorrow because as well as the grocer and bakery I have to venture to the supermarket. Hopefully there's more stock than last week; down to counting toilet paper by sheets thanks to the people on bog roll diets.
Animal welfare is absolutely vital, I can’t see any issues with this at all. My sis-in-law has a couple of horses, plus they have a couple of dogs, so the dogs can get all the exercise they need when at the paddock.
I think that's a good common sense example of how to comply with the rules.
Less how do I avoid and more how do I ensure I comply.
Well said Drac.
+1
Drac really has been the voice of reason on this topic.
I really dont think brewing is classsed as essential , despite the fact we do supply 3 supermarket chains . All of whom have ordered a fair bit this week, with the Co-Op asking if we can do direct drops rather than send bulk to a huge distribution facility.
I cannot WFH , so will go in tomorrow to shut everything down , close the shop , remove the cash . The stock will still be there for the local yoof to have a go at I suppose , not alot you can do with 300+ cases of beer apart from parking the FLT on the roller shutter door
I will then fill my car with enough booze for a month of forced isolation
I wonder , does going out once a day for exercise = going out once a day for a 4hr bike ride ?
Go out , ride , come back. No need to see anyone if you are selective with your route planning.
Well said Drac.
Seconded
@Markwsf I’m not 100% on this either. Ex and Daughter live 30 mins away. I have to drive around for work regardless (emergency services)
Some clarity about how this applies to co-parenting would have been good.
Does she live in my home, well yes, just not all of the time?
@ocrider.
No shortage here, shops are full of products but empty of people.
I need to go to work, see police every day but only stopped once.
can you drive to somewhere for your one form of exercise per day ?
Is this driving to work? No.
Is this driving to the shop for food? No
Is this driving to a medical appointment? No
Is this driving to a filling station for fuel? No
What do you reckon you should do in the light of the 4 questions above?
Stop looking for an edge/loophole and do what you've been told.
Stay home, no unnecessary travel, no physical social interaction. Its not ****ing hard!
There's conflicting/confusing guidance depending where you look for it.
BBC says "From this evening people must stay at home except for shopping for basic necessities, daily exercise , any medical need and travelling to and from essential work." - my bold
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52012432
Which, if you are so inclined, could include a couple of cycling loops, a run, swim in the sea etc. no limit
Gov.uk is more precise "One form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household."
As a major source of information, the BBC needs to pull it's finger out and be a bit more accurate
can you drive to somewhere for your one form of exercise per day ?
No! FFS! Do your bit so I can do mine.
I wonder , does going out once a day for exercise = going out once a day for a 4hr bike ride ?
Go out , ride , come back. No need to see anyone if you are selective with your route planning.
Surely it's more important that, in the course of your bike ride, you observe social distancing and don't crash yourself to bits rather than getting hung up on how long you're out for?
Meanwhile over in the 'can I ride my bike in the countryside' thread, people are working hard to find reasons why they shouldn't ride a bike even if it is allowed 😉
Supermarket deliveries is obvious, but what about other couriers? People buying stuff online when stuck at home will keep a lot of businesses from going under, and I need to order a 2nd monitor!
I’m pretty sure that home delivery is allowed, couriers have been dropping stuff off when nobody’s home for ages, this is no different; in fact, with people at home they can see the courier, give him/her an ok to leave the parcel, then collect it once he’s left the premises. Put on gloves to open the package, sorted.
There should be no difference between food deliveries and any other items.
does going out once a day for exercise = going out once a day for a 4hr bike ride ?
As long as you are not interacting with anyone else then I don't see the issue with that at all.
If I can only fit in one ride a week due to dog walking taking up my allowance, then it'll be pretty sure to make sure it's as long as possible. I don't think some people realise how important exercise is for some people's mental health. I'm going to be in a pretty dark place by the time we come out of this in 2- 3 months time..at least ill hopefully still be alive however, hence why I fully support the measures introduced.
Can I go to my shop tomorrow to secure it and remove all the money and perishables?
There'll be plenty of shops in the same situation, especially the smaller takeaway ones with food in freezers, float in the till etc.
My LBS has been running a locked-door policy for a week now, pre-booked jobs only, card payment only etc but even he will be in tomorrow: securing stock, emptying the till, clearing out food. He'll be doing it with the shutters down though.
Am getting quite annoyed by this constant assumption from the government that a household is more than one person.
I'm currently not working and live on my own. The guidelines effectively amount to solitary confinement.
I really dont think brewing is classsed as essential
Doesn't matter, you can still travel to work (essential or not) as long as you can't do it from home. Work is an exception:
Travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home
wardee
I’m currently not working and live on my own. The guidelines effectively amount to solitary confinement.
unfortunately, yes. It's not forever though.
The more people isolate the more lives are saved.
People should have that thought first and foremost in mind before they do anything.
Am getting quite annoyed by this constant assumption from the government that a household is more than one person.
I’m currently not working and live on my own. The guidelines effectively amount to solitary confinement.
They’re not. My youngest brother has been in isolation since being told last week.
Read again what was said about visits.
Stop looking for an edge/loophole and do what you’ve been told.
who's looking for an edge? I don't even own a car, just looking for clarification in what looks unclear in the initial statement.
1. Staying at home
You should only leave the house for one of four reasons:
Shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible.
One form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household.
Any medical need, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person.
Travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home.These four reasons are exceptions - even when doing these activities, you should be minimising time spent outside of the home and ensuring you are 2 metres apart from anyone outside of your household.
These measures must be followed by everyone. Separate advice is available for individuals or households who are isolating, and for the most vulnerable who need to be shielded.
If you work in a critical sector outlined in this guidance, or your child has been identified as vulnerable, you can continue to take your children to school.
Can I go to my shop tomorrow to secure it and remove all the money and perishables?
Would fall under travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home.
Just been emailed from work to advise that all of our 30 branches nationwide are suspending all works except from ours as we are carrying out essential reactive maintenance works for the MOD.
I’ve asked if anyone has told the builders merchants and suppliers and sub contractors that we rely on that they need to be open for business too.
No response thus far.
Not sure if this has been done. Made me laugh.
Little but more detail here.
Nearly there, just need to shut down non life supporting business too now. Sports Direct has to be about the least essential businesses I can think of yet will still be open. I don't see how it's more essential than Decathlon Pau which is shut.
Just food, meds and moving essential people around to provide properly essential services.
Nearly there.
"All public gatherings of more than two people will be banned,"
Same flaw the German's have.
I’ve asked if anyone has told the builders merchants and suppliers and sub contractors that we rely on that they need to be open for business too.
No response thus far.
'Hardware' seems to be among the shops / businesses that are allowed to continue trading
can we exercise together?
Two of you at a time.
Which, if you are so inclined, could include a couple of cycling loops, a run, swim in the sea etc. no limit
No, one form of exercise.
This evening’s instructions are crystal clear, at last. Read them. Consume them. Act by them. Don’t be a dick.
MOT end of April might be fun..... Key worker wifey can't drive my manual plus I'm working 55 miles away now instead of 5... yay separation!
I really dont think brewing is classsed as essential
Blasphemy!
ive seen a couple of questions up there ^^^ that i havent seen answered yet, mainly about the self-employed. im lucky enough to be in regular employment so still get paid, but self-employed construction workers for instance cant afford to have time off as they wont be re-imbursed (or just get a pittance).
so....to them its essential work, even tho theyre not key workers. this is where i thought the speech was a bit woolly, and facebook as expected is full of arguments about this (well, my feed is anyway) with the self-employed arguing the fact that they have to go to work still for financial reasons and others giving them abuse.
Sports Direct has to be about the least essential businesses I can think of yet will still be open
They shouldn't be.
● all non-essential retail stores - this will include clothing and electronics stores; hair, beauty and nail
salons; and outdoor and indoor markets, excluding food markets.
For others in the co-parenting situation I’m told a lot of MP’s have raised on Twitter that no guidance has been given as to whether that counts as essential travel. Concensus appears to be that it will be.
Nearly there, just need to shut down non life supporting business too now.
He has. 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
sadexpunk
ive seen a couple of questions up there ^^^ that i havent seen answered yet, mainly about the self-employed.
There is no help barring sign up for universal credit.
Needless to say, the focus will be on feeding myself for the forseeable.
I was working last week, it just fell off a cliff tonight though, no doubt. Just hope my invoices get paid that I'll be sending out tomorrow..
I really do feel sorry for those who are self employed hopefully you will get some support too.
More will have to come for the self employed. I suspect it will be loans to get through this period. Easiest way to do it is tax refunds, clawed back later.
No! FFS! Do your bit so I can do mine.
This. The rules are there for a reason...
….to them its essential work, even tho theyre not key workers. this is where i thought the speech was a bit woolly, and facebook as expected is full of arguments about this (well, my feed is anyway) with the self-employed arguing the fact that they have to go to work still for financial reasons and others giving them abuse.
Agreed. It's not at all clear what the government counts as "essential". They need to limit it to food, hospitals etc, and provide proper support for the self employed.
Fingers crossed, I'll be fine for a while, but we'll see what happens. It's a case of what happens the other side really and how the economy recovers from it but who knows about that...
Really is just a case of tightening the belt and seeing this through, needs to be done.
More will have to come for the self employed.
bit naive on this matter really as ive been lucky enough to have always been employed. i assume universal credit is the old 'dole' then, that anyone out of work gets? i dread asking the question, but how much is it? :-/
Travel to "essential work" or "work where necessary" which is it??
I'm just quoting the Guardian from a few minutes ago on Sports Direct, Seosahm.
They’re not. My youngest brother has been in isolation since being told last week.
Read again what was said about visits
It days you shouldn't be visiting or hosting mates as far as I can tell..
Which whilst I agree with the measures, means, as i live alone, in reality I won't have any f2f interaction with anyone for most likely months..
Couple that with not being able to go outside means I and others in a similar position will i think really struggle mentally..
He has. 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Companies are desperately looking for loopholes. Employers are calling everyone in whilst they 'decide on course of action".
I really dont think brewing is classsed as essential
Morale is essential in these times.
Rumour is they will be announcing substantial package for self employed by end of week
A bit of an afterthought maybe, but think theyre moving on it now
I ordered a load of diy stuff from wickes last week, to beat the lockdown, got to plasterboard the new conservatory roof weve had fitted, was then going to get mr borthers best mate whos a plasterer to come & skim it & get him some cash as Im sure its hard on him at the moment.
looks like it might be too late for that now!
self-employed construction workers for instance cant afford to have time off as they wont be re-imbursed (or just get a pittance).
so….to them its essential work, even tho theyre not key workers. this is where i thought the speech was a bit woolly, and facebook as expected is full of arguments about this (well, my feed is anyway) with the self-employed arguing the fact that they have to go to work still for financial reasons and others giving them abuse.
The published advice is pretty clear, it doesn’t matter whether it’s essential or not, if it’s work, and they can’t do it from home, then they can travel to do it.
And I know it’s been posted several times already, but as people still don’t seem to have read it, here is the advice in full:
You have basic things to do and rules - just try to fit them together
You should only leave the house for one of four reasons:
Shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible.
One form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household.
Any medical need, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person.
Travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home.
These four reasons are exceptions - even when doing these activities, you should be minimising time spent outside of the home and ensuring you are 2 metres apart from anyone outside of your household.
Tomorrow I have to get a thing from work to help me work from home. A series coded messages have already be arranged and at the appointed time and collect the thing from outside the building. Might talk at distance to a colleague. Since we are meant to be cutting journeys down and I have to leave the village to shop. I'll check the shop near work - if it's quiet I'll shop. I won't be stopping to exercise on the journey - mainly because it would get too complicated to try and explain why I would be driving to exercise. Sometimes you can combine things sometimes its best not to. I'll probably have a walk first thing before the rest of the village up. Socialising will most likely be out the window to my neighbours.
Got exercise - did work thing that could not be done from home - potentially removed a visit to shops later in week / reduced shopping contact as far as possible. Did not upset people by being seen as having a 'jolly' to the countryside.
This may all change as work bit was set up under old rules. In which case I'll go for a walk and socially distance the neighbour out the window.
Edukator
Member
I’m just quoting the Guardian from a few minutes ago on Sports Direct, Seosahm.
Hopefully his business is the first to receive a visit from the polis. If I worked there I'd putting an anonymous tip to the police anyhow,
List from a few days ago, with what is a 'critical worker':
According to Le Monde - In France exercise is now limited to 1 hour, within 1km of house and alone unless with kids. No cycling.
So hopefully people will not take the piss here because further restrictions are always possible
Travel to “essential work” or “work where necessary” which is it??
The latter:
You can travel to work (essential or not) as long as you can’t do it from home. The exception is:
Travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home
sadexpunk
i dread asking the question, but how much is it? :-/
£317quid a month, and upto £350 in housing benefit. They'll take off .63p for every £1 you earn.
Think the chancellor upped it a slight amount last week, but not by much.
My family are not going out apart from a dog walk per day. We will drive 5 minutes outside the village & do it in the woods. That way I won’t see another person. If I walk from the house then I’m more likely to see other people.
The published advice is pretty clear, it doesn’t matter whether it’s essential or not, if it’s work, and they can’t do it from home, then they can travel to do it.
That's not what the latest says. It's key workers only:
UK Prime Minister (@10DowningStreet) Tweeted: PM @BorisJohnson has announced that everyone must now stay at home except in exceptional circumstances, to protect our NHS and save lives. https://t.co/U76ccAGVyE https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1242193317510684678?s=20
£317quid a month, and upto £350 in housing benefit. They’ll take off .63p for every £1 you earn.
ewwwww......
can we exercise together?
Two of you at a time.
Which, if you are so inclined, could include a couple of cycling loops, a run, swim in the sea etc. no limit
No, one form of exercise.
This evening’s instructions are crystal clear, at last. Read them. Consume them. Act by them. Don’t be a dick.
Also, don't be a dick by confusing two different people and quoting one out of context. I (your second quote) was highlighting the vagueness of the BBC reporting
Well I can't work from home so I guess I'm going in then.
What do you do, Simon?
They need to limit it to food, hospitals etc, and provide proper support for the self employed.
To define it would be a nightmare, there is a lot more that’s essential than food & hospitals. I guess there might be a list on its way at some point.
For a start bin men and airport handling agent staff. Then there’ll be the people that keep the bin lorries running, and the security staff needed to allow the airport staff to get in to the airport.
Me .- Self employed. Currently I can claim £96 a week i think . Nothing more as savings of over £16k
Office girl , been off for 39 weeks maternity , wasn't coming back at all until today, as wont go full time but is now saying she wants back in , Full time role , knowing there is no work and WFH not an option So She will be gov funded 80% of her money to sit at home and play with her baby . gggrrrrrrrr
That’s not what the latest says. It’s key workers only:
UK Prime Minister (@10DowningStreet) Tweeted: PM @BorisJohnson has announced that everyone must now stay at home except in exceptional circumstances, to protect our NHS and save lives. https://t.co/U76ccAGVyE https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1242193317510684678?s=20
I think the document in which the government state the rules trumps a tweet. Not that the tweet mentions key workers. It says "exceptional circumstances" and the document specifies the four specific circumstances one of which is work.
The document again:
confusing two different people
No, I didn’t confuse the two of you.
Just read the government information and act on it, as regards exercise.
It is clear. No need to muddy the waters.
So exercise is ok and max of two people?........🤔............that’s basically tinder then?
I’m joking...
I’m just quoting the Guardian from a few minutes ago on Sports Direct, Seosahm.
So The Guardian reporting what Mike Ashley wants not what the government imposed.
These rules tend to evolve anyway from our experience in Spain. A mate was fined yesterday for going too far out of his way to buy supplies (buys organic so had passed one shop he could've gone to). You (and France) are lucky you are allowed out at all. We live in a 65m2 flat with no garden, and the balcony is in shade all day this time of year. Our 6yo is climbing the walls, hasn't seen sunlight since a week last Saturday, with another 3 weeks to go, at least. Stick to it so they don't clamp down.
that’s basically tinder then?
If you’re in the same household. Crack on.
= :87)
Bins yes, but are all bins essential? They've stopped our brown organic/garden bin, and the others are on reduced frequencies. Post yes, but guitar parts or party goods from Amazon delivered to the door, surely no. DIY stuff, hell no!
We're down to 1km radius and one hour now, Bob, and there's a curfew in more and more towns. And the local shop/supermarket
Well I'm supposed to be on holiday this week! It's been moved 3 times this year due to issues, but as of tomorrow I will be back in work.
I'm engineering manager in a large flour mill & all my staff are in lockdown from contact with our apprentice whose grandfather died with CV-19 on Saturday.
Irony is I worked with him the most last week!
Right off to kip after almost a 13 hour shift then once home catching you with emails abs other points of contact I’m goosed. Still it all starts again tomorrow.
Night folks.
Dim comments up there^^^ about sports direct; they are subject to same regs as others.
The end.
Courage, Drac.
@Edukator our brown bins are cancelled too, the rest are still being done for now. I can see the recycling getting stopped too.
I hope my cassette arrives tomorrow before the delivery drivers stop so I can use the turbo we just bought in preparation for this.
I also really hope the full skip on our drive gets collected in the morning, I really don’t want it sitting out there for 3+ weeks.
I've just read that link up there regarding the current guidelines about closures etc, no problem with retail shops being shut but there is no mention of service type businesses, car service centres etc, I'd imagine they will be allowed to continue trading? Vehicle maintenance being key for the other essential services? Unless I've missed it somewhere, head is in the shed at the moment so it's quite likely
Dim comments up there^^^ about sports direct; they are subject to same regs as others.
The end.
This.
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No, I didn’t confuse the two of you.
Just read the government information and act on it, as regards exercise.
It is clear. No need to muddy the waters.
Then you need to re-read what I wrote.
To be safe, here's the gist of it again, I was saying how the BBC is very vague about what constitutes daily exercise. I gave examples
Gov.UK is very precise, and states one daily exercise session
Hopefully the waters are a little clearer for you now
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