I'm saying people handicapped by the vaccine should be compensated and so should the families of those killed. And since then you've had an anti-French, anti-French pharma, anti-French regulator, anti-French government policy, anti-French... rant.
I've given well-known examples to show there are precedents and that people don't have to rely on "life insurance" as you suggested on the previous page.
I can barely be arsed to even type this response.
Don't then. 🙂
Thalidomide has to be considered against the regulatory environment at that time.
GMP basically didn't exist, GCP has a rough outline of expectations based on the nuremburg trials (the declaration of Helsinki didn't exist until 1964 which set the framework for clinical trials).
The US got incredibly lucky by having someone like Frances Kelsey reviewing it.
Medicines regulation is totally different now and keeps evolving (the changes that will come off the back of covid will be significant).
Can you both just stop it please, if people have the choice of vaccines then that is great and more power to them, but get a grip and look at what is happening in India for when poor bastards have no chance
I’m saying people handicapped by the vaccine should be compensated and so should the families of those killed
A vaccine provided at cost so not really comparable to normal products brought to market to attain profit.
Another subject maybe? Does anyone know any more about airlines and vaccine passports? Discussing with family in Florida today that they've passed a bill there to ban them.
So does that mean it's now impossible for an airline to agree on a reciprocal agreement for flights between FL and the UK for the foreseeable?
Worst case we can meet up in another state I guess (which I'd actually prefer 🙂)
And definitely don’t lay it at the feet of “The French”, as if we’re in an episode of Fawlty Towers
He may have mentioned them once, but I think he got away with it....
Can you both just stop it please, if people have the choice of vaccines then that is great and more power to them, but get a grip and look at what is happening in India for when poor bastards have no chance
I'm not even sure where to start on India, the situation seems so FUBAR that I'm not sure what could be done now? Other than to send what equipment we can and Naval ships to ferry patients and free up beds - seems like pissing in the wind though.
Came on to ask something but I think i'll come back when it's calmer.
Will do Graham, Kelvin and Sefton. I don't often feed the troll but on this occasion wanted to give OakleyMuppet every possible oportunity to express his prejudices. I think that's done now so I'll dip out and come back when I've something that may be of interest on Covid to add.
OakleyMuppet rocked up in September knowing us all a bit too well.
Interesting article in the Grauniad about India - "FUBAR" looks like a massive understatement 🙁
Say what you like mate. Its a public forum (and thread)
That article about India is an eye opener, jeez.
There's definitely a connection between corrupt right wing regimes and a devastating Covid rate.
Yep, UK, US, India, Brazil & Mexico have all messed this up
To be honest I’m worried about a lot of developing countries. They can’t afford to keep up the lockdowns whilst the west vaccinates itself, India is just the start I’m afraid.
The US got incredibly lucky by having someone like Frances Kelsey reviewing it.
Medicines regulation is totally different now and keeps evolving (the changes that will come off the back of covid will be significant).
As a point of information, it was NOT teratogenicity that kept thalidomide out of the US. It was a signal in peripheral neuropathy. They were lucky. Thalidomide passed every required safety assessment of the time. Now there are more assessments. One of the more recent is for QTc prolongation. Some drugs bind to and block the hERG channel that extends repolarisation of cardiac myocytes. Extending too much leads to, well Torsades de Points and death.
Say what you like mate. Its a public forum (and thread)
This. You'll only get reasoned debate and geeky science from me 😉
That article about India is an eye opener, jeez.
Quite a lot of the people I worked with are based in India.
Been getting notification after notification that someone is off either sick or mourning. Admittedly they are concentrated in Gurgaon and Mumbai but its on a completely different scale to anything from what I saw with the UK and USA teams.
I would urge anyone who has soapbox to stand on regarding vaccines and risk takes a good look back at Tired's posts.
How can the post-vaccine admissions be more than all admissions?
Post Vaccine is the absolute number as per the CO-CIN graph. The scale on the right.
Total UK is per 100,000 - scale on the left.
Thanks
Have you seen my reading glasses anywhere?
-Total UK Admissions are plotted per 100,000 from 28th Jan to 12th April - This is 75 Days. Data source is the NHS
-Hospital Admissions After Vaccine ( This is the absolute number )- This is also 75 days . The data is taken from the CO-CIN Study. Day 1 = 75 and then declining 3.1% per day for the first 25 days taking cases to 35 the same as the CO-CIN study. ( I have ignored the increase in cases as I believe that is due to people reducing their social distancing after vaccination ) From day 25 I have the plotted a daily decline of 4% which means at day 50 there are 12.5 cases ( Same as the Co-CIN graph looking a few days both side and averaging ) and at 75 days there are 5 cases, again same as the CO-CIN Study.
This comparison suggests that hospital admissions are dropping at the same rate for people with and without vaccination.
Plot it on a semi log plot. Will look much nicer. The common rate would be expected. It’s a reflection of the community force of infection and the fact that this is in both naive unvaccinated and those vaccinated but not yet protected.
Tired, I agree in that context.
CO-CIN did say this in bold text in their document:
Important caveat. The risk of exposure has reduced since early January so the progressively lower number of PCR positive symptomatic cases admitted to hospital after vaccination is likely to under-represent a signal of vaccine failure.
I work in QA
Oh of course!! Raybanwomble = Oakleymuppet...Welcome back..
I am coming across, what seems, a growing number of folks who fall into more than one of the following camps:
1. The vaccine will mutate our DNA - it can’t the RNA component is inactive & never penetrates into our DNA.
2. The lockdown wasn’t necessary as COVID isn’t that deadly because folks didn’t die in the numbers that was expected - why the F do you think that is Einstein?
3. There is some kind of conspiracy - how else did they manage to create a vaccine so quickly? Because that’s what humanity can achieve when there’s a global effort.
4. Bill Gates is evil & in on it. He’s got too much money & should give it all away. No, BG does a huge amount of philanthropic work & plans to give away nearly all his wealth on his death. He took a punt on several different vaccines at no profit to himself purely because he’s a decent sort.
It’s no 2 where I particularly lose patience with this kind of thinking. The absolute & total inability to believe the evidence of ones own eyes. Couple that with the ease of which they believe BS conspiracy theories with little or no evidence at all.
F me is all I can say - the Worlds gone mad!
@mrkebowski You would think these people from point 2 only have to look at what is happening in India right now to see the consequences of not having strict lockdowns.
You would think these people from point 2 only have to look at what is happening in India right now to see the consequences of not having strict lockdowns.
Indeed. In-bloody-deed!
@mrkebowski You would think these people from point 2 only have to look at what is happening in India right now to see the consequences of not having strict lockdowns.
Unfortunately not. Disinfo Twitter (I have a list) has gone into overdrive explaining India. Watched a video the other day of a brit lady who lives in India, sat in a nice smart SUV, picking up a takeaway, panning the camera around saying it's all a hoax. All the TV footage is of people sleeping on the streets she claimed.
Vaccine stuff is crazy too. A 966% increase in miscarriages is a common claim, or conflating the GM mosquitos with Pfizer.
Loads of great reset stuff, QAnon over here, Bill Gates...
And this is all normal folks, posting on normal accounts. So and so, a chartered accountant from Berkshire. I reply sometimes. Never ends well, I just have to walk away and get some fresh air.
The only one I come across in real life is the type 2, thankfully, and "India" seems to silence them.
Just spoken to my Dad, who lives in southern Oregon, USA.
They’ve just gone back into a form of lockdown due to a surge in cases https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2021-04-30/oregon-covid-surge-vaccine
45% of Oregon residents have one vaccine shot and 26% have had two.
Is this likely to happen here after May 17th?
mrlebowski
Free Member2. The lockdown wasn’t necessary as COVID isn’t that deadly because folks didn’t die in the numbers that was expected – why the F do you think that is Einstein?
Is there a name for this phenomenon? It's so depressing- "We've spotted an issue, it'll be terrible, we need to act on it". We act on it "Ah it was all a load of rubbish, it wasn't as bad as you said". Yes because we acted on it. Millenium bug, covid, brexit to some extent, the people who save our arses get castigated for the fact that our arses were saved.
Is there a name for this phenomenon?
Bellendery?
AssHat Fever?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56904993
One dose of vaccine halves transmission. Most of the population has had a first jab.
Also there were only 7 covid deaths today.
There is zero chance of the NHS being overwhelmed now.
Why are we waiting two weeks still to open more of the economy? Businesses are closing daily...
The caution is pretty obviously wise (unless you’ve slept through the mistakes of the last year, both here and abroad). Help for businesses should be more forthcoming.
Is this likely to happen here after May 17th?
I doubt it, we’re opening up in a very steady way, to avoid having to back track fast like that.
Later in the year new variants might change this, but we are following the right path to help reduce the chance of that happening in the UK, and we know how to stop them being introduced from elsewhere over the summer (hopefully we’ll choose to do so).
The next crunch point for us should be the winter, and the government are well in their way to having booster shots ready for then, so I think we can all be hopeful (but avoid being reckless about things, with the international pandemic still play out over the next year).
Most of the population has had a first jab.
Just over 50% have had the first vaccination. In my view, that isn’t ’most’ of the population
Most of the population has had a first jab.
Also there were only 7 covid deaths today.
There is zero chance of the NHS being overwhelmed now.
Why are we waiting two weeks still to open more of the economy? Businesses are closing daily…
Just over half the population have had one jab.
Deaths are averaging 20, one low day by itself is a bit naive.
Infection rates are down to levels seen last summer. Before they surged again after a variant.
Most at risk businesses are still getting support with furlough etc.
Be patient please.
Why are we waiting two weeks still to open more of the economy? Businesses are closing daily…
I’d have thought it was obvious.....
Why are we waiting two weeks still to open more of the economy? Businesses are closing daily…
Did you miss this around 4 posts above yours?
They’ve just gone back into a form of lockdown due to a surge in cases https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2021-04-30/oregon-covid-surge-vaccine
/a>45% of Oregon residents have one vaccine shot and 26% have had two.
Caution still required, please keep up at the back. We can cope with Brexit ass-hattery but viral mistakes shouldn't be repeated.
The truthful answer is because exposure and incubation times are such that if there is to be a rebound after the mid April opening up it will take 2-3 weeks before that starts to show. Counting our chickens after 2 weeks is too soon; I honestly think that the rates will continue to stay low or at worst flatten and opening up earlier would be OK, but I'm still in favour of caution. In an exponential epidemic, when a mistake costs (based on past evidence) about 4-5x the reparation (ie locking down a week too late means needing to stay in lockdown for 4-5 weeks) I can understand why we're not risking at all.
More prosaically - you don't send the fire brigade home when the fire's mostly out, or take your parachute off when you're almost on the ground.
More prosaically – you don’t send the fire brigade home when the fire’s mostly out, or take your parachute off when you’re almost on the ground.
Well put. +1.
theotherjonv is spot on. We have to wait a bit to check the result of the recent relaxation before continuing.
Just anecdotally, daughter's school has just announced it's first positive test since they went back. The virus is still out there, kids and any parents under 40 won't be vaccinated yet.
There's a reason the experts want us to take it slowly and carefully.
I think where we are now is the height of our freedoms this year.
Maybe a short dive into some travelling and indoor socialising, but restrictions pulled back in for the winter.
Reading articles of an upcoming economic boom. When? 2-3 years time?
stcolin
Free MemberReading articles of an upcoming economic boom. When? 2-3 years time?
TBH this is mostly about the crappy reporting. There will be a boom this quarter, almost certainly, but that just means rapid growth. It doesn't mean it'll cancel out the shrink/recession. If your leg dropped off yesterday, you don't wildly celebrate today's longer toenails even though it means you have slightly more leg than yesterday's record low. We don't need a boom, we need a decade of sustained excellent economic performance- to grow a new leg.
I mean, it's good news, it's just not the good news we need- especially after our shithouse failed recovery from the 2008 crisis, we'd already had a lost decade even before the pandemic and brexit. (we're something like 20% down on where we were in 2008, in dollar terms- we were still nowhere close to "recovery" before we got into 2 new crises at the same time)
Also, the boom will be very unevenly distributed- some sectors will do well, some people will do well, we'll hear a lot about it as the closest thing to an economic good news story there is and it'll drown out the much more boring story of all the other people who're not doing well.
