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Works for me.....
it works again!
I wonder if there will be any "Long Coronavirus discussion thread" issues...🤔
Phew!
Sorry about that folks.
Yes, but now it's not letting me post on the 'Why can't I post on the Coronavirus Thread?' thread. :).
For a moment I thought we'd run out of things to say.
Yes, but now it’s not letting me post on the ‘Why can’t I post on the Coronavirus Thread?’ thread. :).
Same here. And Drac closed the third thread where we were telling him that, with a link to the thread we couldn't post to about where couldn't post to! 😸 It'll all come good in the end.... thanks for dealing with us Drac. Plenty of other threads still closed to new posts for me. Nothing that can't wait 'till tomorrow, or next week (or in some cases 2024).
For a moment I thought we’d run out of things to say.
No, thats targeted for June 22nd* when its all over
*subject to Data
Not sure if it's correct of not, but I've just read that the jcvi priority for phase 2 vaccination is soon to be announced, and it's by age.
No priorities for teachers, other front line workers etc..but all prisoners will be prioritised. That last one I must say I'm not in favour of....
Why? The virus loves prisons.
I'd heard the same yesterday about teachers and other front line workers. All makes sense 'till you're opening up the places they work to people from hundreds of additional households very soon.
I did Kelvin as it was reported as a duplicate, ironically that stopped anyone replying to that one too.
I found it funny, in a kafkaesque way. Thanks again for dealing with this.
but all prisoners will be prioritised. That last one I must say I’m not in favour of….
We're a nominally civilised country (Priti Patel notwithstanding) and we no longer kill prisoners for minor infractions of the law.
Plus, it protects prison officers and their families, who have no option but to be in close proximity to them.
There was an outbreak at Ashwell prison and inevitably it tipped into the local community. Got my letter this morning and jab booked tomorrow, yippee!
It'll be interesting how they fund summer schools. In Scotland we get paid for the term time days but it's spread over the year. So not paid holidays.
That works if we strike. Because it costs us more than 1 day but if you want extra non-term time teaching......
It's why we were given the week back for going back early in autumn and not paid for it.
My mate is a teacher with asthma. She won't get the jab as a priority, however a perfectly healthy 20 year old prisoner will...I won't apologise for saying that stinks
If you are going to prioritise prisoners, then what about students in halls of residence? The virus loves halls of residence as well after all
we no longer kill prisoners for minor infractions of the law.
Nobody is suggesting we kill them. But I certainly don't think we should be prioritising their health over health of other people.
Anyway its just my opinion, I don't need to justify it to anyone that disagrees with me
Not as a teacher, but if her asthma puts her at risk then presumably she'll get that call sooner?
I don't disagree about prioritisation but in the rush to condemn let's not forget that the more significantly at risk teachers - over 50, or who have other health issues will be getting vaccinated via those channels. Teachers are not banned from being vaccinated, as some of the responses might suggest.
(I know there's not many >50 year olds in teaching, obviously, they've all retired on gold plated pensions 😉 )
Teachers are not banned from being vaccinated, as some of the responses might suggest.
Which responses suggests that?
But I certainly don’t think we should be prioritising their health over health of other people.
We're not. As others pointed out, it's about reducing the risk to everyone, not the prisoners. It's the same with teachers... they should be prioritised for vaccination to try and prevent them being a transmission vector between classes, which is about protecting the community. That's also one of the reasons it should have been (arguably too late now) staff at secondary schools and sixth forms that were the priority over primary school staff (where bubbling is more realistic).
The teacher vaccines is a strange one, my dad is helping out at the local pharmacy vaccine centre in the village and they heard last week that teachers were going to be next and then nothing since. They were chatting yesterday and reckoned that if they sent all the teachers in our area to them then it would only take a couple of days (they average around 450 a day). If you look at it like that sure it would make sense just to say to all teachers support staff etc to be done over one weekend and then crack on with the normal routine from the monday after. My wife works in a primary school and she has had her first jab already and it so have quite a few of her workmates (somerset area)
I won’t apologise for saying that stinks
My understanding is that prisoners who fall into the priority groups will be vaccinated as any other part of the community. It makes sense.
If you are going to prioritise prisoners,
prisoners aren't being prioritised, They've had to wait, we started vaccinating our priority groups the 16th Jan.
Anyway its just my opinion, I don’t need to justify it to anyone that disagrees with me
yep, it's important to never let the facts get in the way of opinions.
The govt have made a decision and refuse to change against all common sense. As usual...
tpbiker
Full MemberNobody is suggesting we kill them. But I certainly don’t think we should be prioritising their health over health of other people.
That's... not how it works. Half the reason for vaccinating teachers is that they're suspected of being a transmission route to others.
I mean, frankly yes I do think we should be prioritising their health over others, because we keep saying that education's a key priority and that getting kids back to school is essential and vaccinating teachers is a pretty obvious and easy way to help that. Sick teachers are disruptive even if they don't get seriously ill and are just off work for a fortnight.
And besides, we've already moved out of the highest risk groups. So when we talk about prioritising one group ie teachers or prisoners over another, we're not talking about snatching a vaccine from a pensioner or doctor any more. We're giving them to people whose risks aren't that heightened now. Including me, a diabetic. Yes I'm at more risk but no I'm not a massively high priority, and that's how it works and how it's supposed to work. And I am not being exposed by my employer.
Prisoners... Well, I get why that's emotive. But the thing is, if you lock someone up you have to do what you can to keep them basically safe, you're taking away the person's ability to do that for yourself. "Everyone must socially distance, ps get in that box with that other dude" And of course prison operation and the wider justice system has been seriously disrupted by the virus, and as long as we keep having significant outbreaks in jails we'll keep putting strain on hospitals. Again, think of it not about "prioritising the prisoner", think of it as "making prisons and the justice system work better and reducing stress on the NHS". Or, hey, keeping prison staff safe so they can keep doing their job.
Ironically prison vaccinations are quite likely to lead to more people getting sent to jail.
Challenging though it is (and my GF runs a primary where they had an outbreak) the jcvi do not recommend teachers get jabs ahead of anyone else because the average age of teachers is relatively low and the numbers of them falling ill also relatively low. Personally I think it would be a much appreciated thing to put teachers ahead of others and I'd be much happier knowing my GF who has had asthma which has hospitalised her on occasion was protected.
However the vulnerable among teaching staff will get it ASAP and as soon as we start trying to make further prioritisations we will slow the overall program.
The idea that people who can work at home are the same priority as a teacher of the same age is still utterly bonkers. No one is making me share a small room for hours on end with a series of groups of 30 other people. No one is saying a teacher in their 50s should take priority over someone in their 70s, or someone with a preexisting condition, but that is not where we are at. They should be vaccinated ahead of those the same age that can chose to minimise the number of indoor long exposure contacts they have. If schools are (rightly) the priority when it comes to opening the country up, and getting contacts going again, then that should feed into the vaccination roll out planning.
I imagine the practicality of prisoners is they will show up one day and jab everyone on site, rather than have them done at the same age related time as the free population.
And if you do them later than "their turn" rather than earlier it only takes one 49 yearold prisoner to die and the guardian handwringers will start bleating.
It would stop the weaponising of it against guards and staff too.
Overall, its a tiny proportion of the country.
(I also would have liked to see teachers done as a priority)
^seems our opinions are already out of date
No 10 has ruled out prioritising prisoners in the next wave of the vaccination programme. According to a report in today’s Times, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation is advising that, in the next phase, people under 50 should be vaccinated by age bands, with no attempt to prioritise key workers. But it is also saying officials should have the option of vaccinating a whole prison in one go. The Times says:
[The JCVI] has accepted that local areas should not be stopped from mass vaccination in institutional settings such as prisons, after complaints that it is impractical to separate out prisoners by age.Although there will not be any formal exemption from the age-based list for prisons, local vaccination teams will be given “more flexibility” to depart from strict priority order to avoid wastage and tackle inequalities of race or class.
But Downing Street said prisoners would not get prioritised, and they would be vaccinated in line with the JCVI recommendations for the whole population (ie by age). “Prisoners won’t be prioritised for vaccines,” the PM’s spokesman said.
They should be vaccinate ahead of those the same age that can chose to minimise the number of indoor long exposure contacts they have.
Give us a break, Our systems are pretty sophisticated, but there's a level at which those sorts of decisions become just pointlessly complex as to be useless. We just need to stick needles in arms as fast as we can. Doing it by age and vulnerability is as good system, as it will by definition pick up folk, regardless of the job they do. We could've chosen to vaccinate by comparative exposure, but the evidence is that more people would die.
rather than earlier it only takes one 49 yearold prisoner to die and the guardian handwringers will start bleating.
Or the death of the accused means a victim of crime does not get justice?
Give us a break
It doesn't have to be you. GPs are not the best option if you want to send teams to institutions to quickly rattle through the adults there... be it a school or a college or a prison... or a university. I'd be calling for University staff to be vaccinated early as well, if they were being told to return to full time face to face learning while others were still being asked to work from home if they can.
prisoners aren’t being prioritised, They’ve had to wait, we started vaccinating our priority groups the 16th Jan.
Did you even read my original post? I said it may not be true but i had heard they were getting priority in 2nd phase, regardless of health issues.
I get the rational for doing it, but my point is the same arguement could be made for teachers..schools are route of transmission etc etc. And I know which group I think are most deserving of vaccination.
And I know which group I think are most deserving of vaccination.
Is it that group that are likely to both spread it more widely and be unable to self isolate effectively and therefore be more vulnerable? I'd imagine that judges juries, lawyers and staff, the police and prison service and the families of those held in prisons will be relived that they're not going to be exposed to a group of likely infections people...
It might not be the most popular, but it's line with the decision to vaccinate the most likely to die.
If we take as a given that breaches to the Coronavirus Act are likely to increase both the chances of catching and spreading Coronavirus perhaps we should prioritise vaccinating those caught in breach of it? We'd obviously need to be careful that this didn't incentivise breaking the law, so we'd also need to increase the punishments too. Perhaps an automatic prison sentence, which would dovetail nicely with prioritising vaccinating prisoners in general. 🙂
And I know which group I think are most deserving of vaccination.
No group is more deserving than another. Need however is something different.
booked my jab for a week today after seeing this
https://www.bradfordhospitals.nhs.uk/2021/02/24/over-60-you-can-book-your-covid-19-vaccination-today/
Good news! I though it was still the over 64 that could chase up a booking. Things are moving quickly…
Not vaccinating teachers is entirely political.
Boris won't ever move away from his "schools are safe" line, and to vaccinate teachers would be to admit his lies.
While I'm in favour of vaccinating teachers early - as much as as a gesture of thanks for all the work that they have put in this last year - there are other frontline jobs with higher infection/death rates that are arguably a higher priority.
As nickc suggested - and I think he has some experience in the area - the practicalities of filtering certain occupations or whatever will be an admin burden the system probably doesn't need. Let's deal with the clinically vulnerable, then the vulnerability by age.
Teachers with underlying health issues, or over 50, or... are being vaccinated
I don't disagree that ALL teachers should be vaccinated, but constantly saying that teachers are not being vaccinated makes it sound like they are being actively denied.
makes it sound like they are being actively denied
No one thinks this. It’s just a straw-man.
Selecting by role (whether it is teachers or prison guards) is trivial. You use their employer and their place of work. As for other groups already targeted based on role, such as professional carers. It is not being rejected on practical concerns really, is it.
Don't they? Why am I raising it then? The language does not reflect that a lot of teachers ARE being vaccinated.
"Not vaccinating teachers is entirely political"
I do not disagree that ALL teachers should be vaccinated
Not vaccinating ALL teachers is entirely political
Unfortunate in the eu that their bickering and comments about the az vaccine have led to only 20% of the supplied doses being used.
Seems the supply issues didn't matter so much now.
Surely that will have an impact on how long it takes them to lift restrictions.
Plus if they have loads unused then can they ship them to places where they will be used rather than let them expire (i.e. mexico or other countries getting badly hit)
Why am I raising it then?
God knows.
rather than let them expire
Who is letting vaccines “expire” ?
The eu will run the risk of letting vaccine doses expire if they don't have people wanting to take them. I don't know what the expiry is but there will be one so if they are not going to use them they could send them somewhere better. African countries etc
What is your source for the idea that the EU won’t use the vaccines? And there are schemes to get vaccines to other parts of the world, which the EU countries are part of (as are we, and at last the USA). Covax is one, and the first deliveries under that scheme have just started.