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Just had my vaccination - Oxford Astrazenneca. Nothing to say really, just grateful and making sure I was polite and thankful to the staff.
First of all, I should say, people shouldn’t be booking holidays right now, not domestically or internationally …
Has he checked with Handjob, who announced he had booked a holiday in Cornwall?
First of all, I should say, people shouldn’t be booking holidays right now, not domestically or internationally
I know why he's said it, I know it's sensible, but by gosh it's another kick and another removal of hope.
I had no intention of leaving the UK but feeling like I might sneak a long weekend in The Peak District or similar in the summer was really helping, it was something to look forward to. A bit of hope.
Mrs just had her vaccine this morning, she was by far the youngest in the room by probably 50 years, even the doc administering the vaccine was curious how she'd managed to get one being only 28. She had the Astra Zeneca one, only mentioned the metallic taste in her mouth and warm sensation as it went in her arm. No extra 5G signal yet or weird controlled behaviour to report, no extra limbs either.
The Government got their fingers burnt in the past by telling people things too early, as once they said you can do something in a weeks time, people changed their behaviour straight away.
Seems a different tact now.
Ministers are just towing the line, and saying wait for BoJos announcement on the 22nd.
UK holidays will be allowed, and I’d be booking stuff on that basis (I have, with COVID guarantees), as once we get told it will be possible in the summer, it’s going to go bonkers.
Overseas, potentially later in the year, but I’d see that as a bonus rather than a given.
I know why he’s said it, I know it’s sensible, but by gosh it’s another kick and another removal of hope.
should have perhaps told the travel firms a couple of months ago before they spunked their cash on a load of tv advertising.
What's the point giving people hope? IMO the government should now be getting very forthright on advising that vaccination doesn't mean it's time to "get back to normal".
What’s the point giving people hope?
Because there's a huge number of people who are struggling as right now it feels like there is little or no joy in their lives and that they have nothing to look forward to. And giving them some hope would really help them?
IMO the government should now be getting very forthright on advising that vaccination doesn’t mean it’s time to “get back to normal”.
So the vaccination doesn't get is "back to normal". Fine, so what does? Tell us that so we know where we stand.
Fine, so what does?
A zero covid strategy which other island nations have successfully implemented. Instead we get repeated lockdowns without the benefit of getting back to some normality. I still have no idea why we're not doing this.
So the vaccination doesn’t get is “back to normal”. Fine, so what does? Tell us that so we know where we stand.
The vaccine is designed to protect us from the effects of the severity of the disease, it wasn't designed to block transmission. However as the viral load should be reduced in each person vaccinated, that should help reduce transmission. How much that transmission is lessened because of the vaccine rollout should (in any normal govt response...) dictate the speed at which we come out of lockdown measures.
will will in all likelihood, see new variants, outbreaks; and next winter will probs see us all back in some sort of (hopefully looser) variant of lockdown and more vaccines for everyone. This will continue for some years.
A zero covid strategy which other islands nations have successfully implemented.
A horse that has long long since bolted. There is no going back to that now.
Islands that have done so, how have they managed incoming freight. Is most of oz/nz imports unaccompanied unlike our cross channel stuff?
And will those places have a 2 week quarantine forever? Or will they get rid of it once they have jabbed everyone (even a fully vaccinated population will likely result in some cases)
A zero covid strategy which other island nations have successfully implemented. Instead we get repeated lockdowns without the benefit of getting back to some normality. I still have no idea why we’re not doing this.
The horse has bolted on that one.
You’d need to continue this lockdown for several further months to get to zero, given it’s so widespread.
Then what do you do once it’s down to zero?
Vaccinate everyone.
Then what?
How long is it going to be before it is (a) legally and (b) morally OK for me to drive five hours from Wales to England to get laid (with or without protection)?
Islands that have done so, how have they managed incoming freight. Is most of oz/nz imports unaccompanied unlike our cross channel stuff?
And will those places have a 2 week quarantine forever? Or will they get rid of it once they have jabbed everyone (even a fully vaccinated population will likely result in some cases)
I'm guessing there aren't many lorries driving on and off ferries in NZ or Aus.
I think Batfinks posts on the last page oage cover the position down there really well
The horse has bolted on that one.
I don't see why. It will take time and huge effort to reduce cases to manageable (not zero) levels, but we're not using one of the main advantages we have, which is our ability to tightly control who comes into the country. If it takes a longer lockdown then better that than another one in the autumn/next winter or extended periods with hospitality closed or out of business.
How long is it going to be before it is (a) legally and (b) morally OK for me to drive five hours from Wales to England to get laid (with or without protection)?
you're going to have blue-ish balls for a couple of months at least yet I'd have thought. late Spring/ early Summer...maybe..
I'm getting to the point of vaccinate all possible to minimise severe disease, and moderate disease if the vaccines can be produced fast enough to deal with variants. Then after that just get on with it and use contact teaching (better if it worked well).
I just can't see the current lot being able to do anything different, and if we keep locking down compliance will vanish and become counter productive.
Feeling a bit pessimistic at the moment I'm afraid
A few more months of grip training for you i think chrispo
I don’t see why.
There is is too much infection now for it to be contained like this. (I read a report that suggested that COVID entered the UK on 1300 separate incidents in March 2020). That ship has sailed, and COVID is here. Our only way out of this is an effective track and trace and isolate and vaccinate.
If it takes a longer lockdown then better that than another one in the autumn/next winter or extended periods with hospitality closed or out of business.
We'll probably be looking at some sort of lockdown next winter now anyway. Because: Evolutionary biology
I’m getting to the point of vaccinate all possible to minimise severe disease, and moderate disease if the vaccines can be produced fast enough to deal with variants. Then after that just get on with it and use contact teaching (better if it worked well).
I just can’t see the current lot being able to do anything different, and if we keep locking down compliance will vanish and become counter productive.
I agree.
Perhaps with a side of shielding for the elderly.
I don’t see why. It will take time and huge effort to reduce cases to manageable (not zero) levels, but we’re not using one of the main advantages we have, which is our ability to tightly control who comes into the country. If it takes a longer lockdown then better that than another one in the autumn/next winter or extended periods with hospitality closed or out of business.
But the current high numbers were caused by our own Kent variant and all of the mixing which happed over the Christmas period.
Whilst I agree that closing the border would help, it’s only 1% of the solution. Plus there’s also the land border in NI to consider.
and if we keep locking down compliance will vanish and become counter productive.
Don't believe the hype/media, most folk are still content (I won't say happy) to just get on with it, yes, folk are grumbling, but there's still remarkably high compliance. and most folk know why.
Perhaps with a side of shielding for the elderly.
smells a bit like the Great Barrington declaration to me...Just how are you going to "shield" the elderly? what about their families? and carers? and visitors? what d'you mean by elderly? vulnerable? who does that include? for how long? Is singling out a demographic fair? what about all the folk who aren't elderly who get it?
Sounds good, in practice, it's rubbish
If it takes a longer lockdown then better that than another one in the autumn/next winter or extended periods with hospitality closed or out of business.
Virus is still circulating even under lockdown, which makes sense, as people are still mixing (legally), some kids are in school, people at work etc. And it will still circulate regardless of how long lockdown goes on. At the moment I've noticed that the current lockdown seems to bring rates down to around 150 per 100,000, but getting beyond that seems to be harder, except in rural areas perhaps. I'd expect it to come down a bit more in February, but perhaps not as much as people are hoping.
So longer doesn't necessary mean better. The previous lockdown started tighter, then eased gradually, and that started from a much lower caseload, and still was unsuccessful in keeping numbers suppressed for more than a couple of months. We need to reach the point we were at in July, but then actually use Test and Trace properly and intensively to stamp it down further.
Obviously vaccination will help, but not yet.
I'm sure cleverer people than me are modelling things, but I wonder whether a short (couple of weeks), but much tougher lockdown period at the END of the current restrictions might be more effective at interrupting hard-to-reach transmission and driving case rates down to a level where T&T stands a chance of being effective?
Is singling out a demographic fair?
Rather than destroying everyone's way of life to protect said demographic?
The previous lockdown started tighter, then eased gradually, and that started from a much lower caseload, and still was unsuccessful in keeping numbers suppressed for more than a couple of months
We probably didn't start from a much lower caseload, it's just that didn't have an effective track &trace system in place to identify them, and it wasn't effective in reducing numbers as we had come out of the first lockdown (remember that?) arguably too early. COVID has never gone away, there were at least 500 new cases per day at the height of the summer last year; there's some debate about whether this is really a second wave, or just a continuation of the first. We are here now because Johnson's govt has been ineffectual at managing this outbreak. Not because the science is wrong. Remember that lockdowns are primarily there to flatten the spread and prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed. dropping the infection rate is a secondary benefit.
Rather than destroying everyone’s way of life to protect said demographic?
this argument has been done to death over the previous [...checks notes] 641 pages of discussion, are we still having to have it?
Yet you justify measures against the majority which you otherwise object to being placed on a minority. How much contact do you have with young people? I see them every day. It's getting extremely worrying.
It seems some rather enjoy this situation and cannot abide any discussion or critique of it. The situation is rapidly developing and as the vaccine programs come to be seen as mitigation, rather than eradication, the debate of how we adapt to this as a society is more pertinent than ever.
I can't help but wonder that a strange and disturbing puritanical side of certain individuals has been revealed. It's as though they get some satisfaction from expounding the dullness of their lives onto everyone.
Perhaps with a side of shielding for the elderly.
50 % of critically extremely vulnerable are under 50.
there’s some debate about whether this is really a second wave, or just a continuation of the first
oh come on what definition of wave are people using to make that assertion?
summer daily deaths were about 1% of the wave peaks daily deaths both in April/amy and jan/feb.*
If you want to argue wave definitions then can we decide if we are in wave 2 or 3, with the little dip in november/december
*I'm going by deaths as changes in testing pracitces and availability over the last year will have an effect on reported case numbers.
How much contact do you have with young people? I see them every day. It’s getting extremely worrying.
Everyday. (I work in GP surgery) I don't doubt that it is, but many of those young folk would also be horrified at the idea that their lives are going to be 'spared' at the expenses of their granny's. Plus in many many multi-generational homes, the kids are the carers, so they'd have to shield alongside their elderly relatives.
How long does a person stay infectious? How many people in the average UK household? Now ask why "lockdowns" need to last so long. It seems to me that it is because they aren't real lockdowns. It's not locking down (and not testing, isolating and quarantining arrivals) that has resulted in this endless dragging on of difficult restrictions.
It seems some rather enjoy this situation and cannot abide any discussion or critique of it. The situation is rapidly developing and as the vaccine programs come to be seen as mitigation, rather than eradication, the debate of how we adapt to this as a society is more pertinent than ever.
I can’t help but wonder that a strange and disturbing puritanical side of certain individuals has been revealed. It’s as though they get some satisfaction from expounding the dullness of their lives onto everyone.
I've not seen anyone on here "in favour" of restrictions giving any indication that they enjoy it or want it to go on a moment longer
than is necessary. We've had plenty of debate around it, it's fairly clear that opinions aren't being changed, but I'm not sure your slightly provocative language there is helping further the debate.
Good to see that the UK government is erring on the side of caution for once after the disaster that followed Johnsons 'have a merry little Christmas' comments
oh come on what definition of wave are people using to make that assertion?
There is less certainty about how pandemics spread than you'd probably imagine. There was some work done a while back looking at other pandemics, but there doesn't seem to be a coherent wave/spike/outbreak spread to many of them and there doesn't seem to be a reliable link between severity and "waves" either. There's enough evidence to argue it either way...or a lack of evidence to be certain, whichever floats your boat. Sorry, science is like that
Yet you justify measures against the majority which you otherwise object to being placed on a minority. How much contact do you have with young people? I see them every day. It’s getting extremely worrying.
Young people are least affected by the virus and most affected by the measures. They're being largely ignored in discussions and really struggling. All those things that 18 - 25 year olds are meant to do, go out and about, meet people, have casual sex, develop personally are being taken away to stop a virus that has almost no effect on them.
I can’t help but wonder that a strange and disturbing puritanical side of certain individuals has been revealed. It’s as though they get some satisfaction from expounding the dullness of their lives onto everyone.
This is so true.
I really struggle to see how people are not actively trying to find an end to this and asking questions. Most of the things I enjoy in my life have been removed so why wouldn't I be pushing and hoping for their return sooner rather than later?!
It’s as though they get some satisfaction from expounding the dullness of their lives onto everyone.
Odious little twerp.
I really struggle to see how people are not actively trying to find an end to this and asking questions.
Some of us think that the current "lockdown" and half the deaths we have had in the last 12 months were entirely avoidable. Ending measures early last year, and then avoiding measures in the Autumn, has resulted in the current shit show. I'm angry about the current harsh restrictions, because they are the result of people (government in the main) not doing what was required last year. We shouldn't be in lock down now. There didn't need to be a "Kent strain". Schools should be fully open now. This was all avoidable... but now it's necessary... and if we make the mistake again of removing restrictions too early, or not acting on rising numbers soon enough again, we're in for another round of this... which, despite what some might think, WE HATE AND DO NOT WANT.
As several people have just pointed out, a lot of the vulnerable are under 50, a lot of of the young live in multigenerational households.
We're all trying to find a way to bring this to an end, just disagreeing on priorities.
It needs vaccination to tell out further to ease pressure on the NHS, it needs track and trace to properly, genuinely work, and it needs adequate support for people who cannot work if they have to isolate as a result of T&T.
Other countries/governments have shown what is required.
It seems to me that it is because they aren’t real lockdowns.
what definition of lockdown is sufficient? Given every country in the world did something different there must be a clear line dividing the definitions of "lockdown" and "not a true lockdown"
Imagine if we had successfully closed the borders*, for those of us living on this island how should we have acted, whilst still managing to purchase food to eat, and provide medical care to both covid and non covid patients?
*In hindsight, yes, adopting a Aus style border policy the instant we heard about this wuhan flu last feburary would have been excellent. But we didnt.
...it needs adequate support for people who cannot work if they have to isolate as a result of T&T. Other countries/governments have shown what is required.
This needs saying more often. It's the biggest flaw of many flaws in our Track/Trace/Isolate measures.
Because there’s a huge number of people who are struggling as right now it feels like there is little or no joy in their lives and that they have nothing to look forward to. And giving them some hope would really help them?
Surely better to be overly cautious even if it doesn't give people joy. Other alternative is say go for and then have to back track, cancel holidays and leave everyone royally pissed off.
smells a bit like the Great Barrington declaration to me…
Rather than destroying everyone’s way of life to protect said demographic?
Is that such a stupid idea? Protect (by way of vaccination and/or shielding) those most at risk and let those that are not such high risk get on with life.
We're essentially curbing our lives and staying indoors to protect a demographic that, for the most part, have already lived their best lives. They are not giving up their education or putting their lives on hold. They're not worrying about their jobs or suffering financially. They've got their pensions. They're not going to suffer for the next ten, twenty, thirty years with mental health problems.
Society needs to serve everyone, but shouldn't deprive the majority for the sake of the few.
From the start I've felt that full on lockdowns are out of proportion. Whole sections of society/economy have essentially been sacrificed.
The over 65s I know have carried on their lives pretty much as normal. Our neighbours continue to go away every other week to their holiday home on the lake. They've not had to tighten their belts with regards to spending. In fact, they've just bought a new flat to rent out.
The wealth continues to grow in the over 65s pockets whilst the Millennials get shit on.
@chrispo another few months of edging.... Just imagine the eruption when she finally touches the tip....
🌋 💦
Some of us think that the current “lockdown” and half the deaths we have had in the last 12 months were entirely avoidable. Ending measures early last year, and then avoiding measures in the Autumn, has resulted in the current shit show. I’m angry about the current harsh restrictions, because they are the result of people (government in the main) not doing what was required last year. We shouldn’t be in lock down now. There didn’t need to be a “Kent strain”. Schools should be fully open now. This was all avoidable… but now it’s necessary… and if we make the mistake again of removing restrictions too early again, or not acting on rising numbers soon enough again, we’re in for another round of this… which, despite what some might think, WE HATE AND DO NOT WANT.
Absolutely. The current lockdown could and should have been unnecessary. Direct your anger and frustration at those responsible for it, not those of us who are hating it but understand why it's necessary.
It's not like I don't understand the impact on the young. I have a 17 and 14 year old who both represent GB nationally and internationally at events. Eldest is in his A level year, trying to pass his driving test, looking for a summer job and a holiday with mates before he goes to university. Don't try and ****ing hold court to me about it's impact on the young.
https://twitter.com/Unlocked_UK_/status/1359215513906253828
A calmer, somewhat more rational, less sentimental view of things for those who are interested.
"Unlocked" can get in the sea. Check out the rest of their twitter stream... it's full of the "somewhat more rational" content created by Kate Hoey and Lawrence Fox. It's all the kind of stuff we have to spend time carefully talking through with our elderly relatives... I'd rather read what the columnists for the Daily Mail are saying than have to wade through any of the stuff they put out. So, no thanks.
"Why YOU Should Worry About Woke"
Meh...
https://twitter.com/MartinDaubney/status/1329720735523287040?s=20
Oh, they do sound lovely, calm and rational.
Society needs to serve everyone, but shouldn’t deprive the majority for the sake of the few.
people have been saying that for millennia, a few years of covid and not going on holiday isn’t going to change that. if anything it reinforces the position of the monied elite.