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People are in general no longer scared so many more are following the actual law/rules rather than the guidance.
Ahh… here we go…
People haven’t acted to stop the spread out of fear for themselves, but to help others, not least NHS and care workers at the front line of all this. Those who will only do the legal minimum to avoid spread, aren’t brave, they are something else…
The attitude of employers is the big difference in this “lockdown” and that is led by the government. Many are travelling for work, rather than staying at home, especially those who are in roles that can not be done productively at home. That has a knock on effect in on site attendance in schools as well. All at a time when both Sage and Indy Sage (and many others) have warned that we need fewer people mixing than in the spring, not more.
I reckon he should think about doing this for a living
Doesn't pay. I left academia as we couldn't afford the childcare. HMG pay even less (actually nil) 😉 #hobbyist.
cheers tired
Ive asked what lateral flow test she has
edit- yes its Innova !
Does anyone have any insight as to why France is doing so badly at administering the vaccination?
According to this tracker:
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/
They are lagging way behind comparable countries in the EU and I was curious as to why.
Does anyone have any insight as to why France is doing so badly at administering the vaccination?
They were ranked bottom in the world in the "do you trust the safety of/do you want the vaccine?" survey - think the link was on here a few days ago. UK was near the top.
edit - so not actually answering your question, but it seems the publlic opinion is very different over there
France is waiting for the large open-label post-marketing Phase 4 trial to read out on safety and efficacy. That trial is called "The UK".
People are in general no longer scared so many more are following the actual law/rules rather than the guidance.
To offer an alternative rather than no longer scared could it be that they can no longer maintain such a high level of anxiety?
France is waiting for the large open-label post-marketing Phase 4 trial to read out on safety and efficacy. That trial is called “The UK”.
Probably Israel as as part of their vaccine purchase contract they have apparently committed to collect and pass on multi level data on their vaccine program, which along with money made their offer more compelling.
At one stage France was going to set up a Citizens Committee to review the vaccine rollout, I guess to improve perception, not sure what happened.
Even if it was the supermarkets, what exactly is the solution? Go forage in the woods instead?
No, it means further measures are required to reduce transmission. See also people not wearing masks in supermarkets.
Joking apart, and yes I do appreciate the humour 🙂 :
I think the idea is to build confidence and have people begging to be vaccinated rather than reticent. Seems to be working, they've opened up to all over 75s in Nancy (6 days before elsewhere) and have been inundated with requests.
I reckon that things will ramp up here and we'll be capable of injecting vaccine as fast as it can be made within a month or so.
There was our M. Covid on TV earlier and it's clear he's keen to use the Astra-Zeneca vaccine as it's less of a logistic headache.
People haven’t acted to stop the spread out of fear for themselves
Some people definitely did, the same ones that objected to cyclists riding past their houses but went out to clap for carers before drinkies with the neighbours. The same ones who've never exercised in their lives now complaining their mental health will suffer if they can't go for a stroll in the park.
People are in general no longer scared so many more are following the actual law/rules rather than the guidance.
A massive thing is that the people who can not work from home (which I reckon people on here don't realise is that this is probably the majority, including me) were able to stop for a while over lockdown 1.
Now no one has any money any more so if its not explicitly labelled in law e.g. retail shop then we are all working everyday with lots of people and travelling to do so.
While we are talking lateral flow tests (innova) do we know much about the false positive rate? Anecdotally I thought I’d heard it was a “thing”
The government aRe encouraging our section of healthcare providers to conduct twice weekly lateral flow tests. If a staff member tests positive then they self isolate and have a confirmatory PCR test.
Sounds all a great idea but multiple false positives and unnecessary staff absence waiting for a negative confirmatory pcr on top of normal winter sickness and real self isolation following a positive pcr is going to cripple the service provision which is not great for the patients relying on it and potentially have business viability effects if it goes on long term.
Many colleagues are reluctant to start the testing as a result despite it being obviously the “right thing to do”
I should mention that the level of PPE and cross infection control in use makes staff to staff or staff to patient transmission a fairly low risk
@Edukator - I have friends in France, from different nationalities but they all seem to think that France has an awful lot of anti-vaxers. Do you read it the same way?
It's a statistical fact Elshamino, but as the months go by the number of people prepared to get vaccinated is increasing. More fool those who don't. I don't think this is a virus that can be eliminated in Europe by vaccination in the way TB and polio were for a few decades. So on current knowledge even if some people don't get vaccinated it's not going to compromise the overall strategy, there will just be a few more hospital beds occupied and a few more excess deaths than in places where vaccine take up is higher.
The Greek government have already raised the prospect of vaccine passports for easy travel.
so pressure will be building
Speaking to my sister back in Essex today.
Was surprised that masks are not mandatory in shops/supermarkets...!
Here in Bavaria FFP2 masks are mandatory as of Monday next week. Face coverings hab had to be worn since spring last year. Even parts of Munich have mandatory mask wearing even outdoors!
Not surprising the numbers in Essex are over ten times higher than they are here...!
To offer an alternative rather than no longer scared could it be that they can no longer maintain such a high level of anxiety?
Possibly. There may be a certain fatigue with trying to be on constant high alert. A couple of colleagues who in my view massively overacted at the start are now behaving normally and I no longer know anyone who's quarantining/disinfecting their shopping.
Speaking to my sister back in Essex today.
Was surprised that masks are not mandatory in shops/supermarkets…!
except they are.
@Edukator - thanks. It's quite a shock to hear that, I just cannot fathom that kind of response.
Speaking to my sister back in Essex today.
Was surprised that masks are not mandatory in shops/supermarkets…!
except they are.
But since when?
My aunt works at the Post Office and said she's been asking people why they're not wearing a mask.
Listening to the radio the other day it sounded like Morrisons were only now beginning to enforce it.
At my local supermarket here in Munich they've had security on the door making sure everyone had a mask, counting people in and out, making people wait outside if the store had too many customers and another security making sure people kept their distance from one another at the tills.
But since when?
It's been law since July
Been the law in Scotland since October 16th, not sure about nationally.
I’ve not seen anyone in a shop for months without a face mask on.
That’s not often admittedly.
I do the weekly shopping and occasionally see someone without a mask but it's very rare.
I've seen a few without
Including a couple of pissed up blokes bragging about it, also had maintence contractors in work refuse to coz he doesn't want to breathe CO2
On the trains it's pretty good (I'm in 3-4 days a week) but you still get the off person refusing & causing a scene, which is impressive as there are so few people on them (I've also seen someone in full clean suit, mask & googled Tbf)
Have to wear a mask while running here in Spain. That’s a laugh.
@kimbers - was on a call earlier where it was mentioned that various ‘detritus’ from the virus was floating around for anytime up to 2-3 months (causing +ves). There’s a team in Italy looking into it. Didn’t catch the full details though. Can see if I can find out more.
Rich
In theory Rich that is much more likely to be showing up on PCR than flow test, but who knows!
It’s been law since July
Where?
Not trying to be a prick, but from what I've heard and what I'm reading on fb it certainly doesn't seem to be implemented across the board.
To offer an alternative rather than no longer scared could it be that they can no longer maintain such a high level of anxiety?
Possibly. There may be a certain fatigue with trying to be on constant high alert. A couple of colleagues who in my view massively overacted at the start are now behaving normally and I no longer know anyone who’s quarantining/disinfecting their shopping.
Yes. Most people want to do the right thing, but 'fear factor' or anxiety is also a useful motivator. For those people who have so-far avoided any close experience of covid this has a tendency to reduce over time... "risk normalisation".
Where?
Not trying to be a prick, but from what I’ve heard and what I’m reading on fb it certainly doesn’t seem to be implemented across the board.
https://www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/government-makes-wearing-face-masks-mandatory
ElShalimo
Full MemberI do the weekly shopping and occasionally see someone without a mask but it’s very rare.
Same here and I do shopping for 4 elderly neighbours, so am in Aldi & Sainsburys in our town 4 to 5 times a week and its a real jolt to see someone without a mask!
I see far more people not doing it on the train, than in shops,
the trains arent as busy, but much poorer air circulation
Where?
Not trying to be a prick, but from what I’ve heard and what I’m reading on fb it certainly doesn’t seem to be implemented across the board.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
Enforcement may be an issue but as someone who works in a shop i'm not telling someone looking for a fight that they have to leave. It's ussually only 1 or 2 a day though max
If it's been mandatory since July why are the supermarkets only implementing it now?
It hasn't been the responsibility of the shops to enforce the law. That may change though.
Because it's ultimately a police issue rather than one for minimum wage supermarket staff to attempt to enforce.
There's lots of things that are illegal to do in shops but its the job of the police to stop these things not staff members
#plagueisland
There are signs up on doors reminding people it is 'mandatory' and when my 16yo daughter does door duty at her supermarket she has to remind the odd person. But as with queue jumpers, some people just ignore the 16yo, she's not got the physical ability to enforce it, or as a 16yo the 'presence' to impose it but the big security guard behind the door has a better hit rate. But if he's off somewhere else then some people do just ignore her.
Technically the shop has the right to refuse admission, so while he can't do anything about someone not wearing a mask (as in fine or arrest them), they can refuse admission or eject someone for not wearing one. There are even some who wear a mask to get in and then take them off!
It's not because they don't know, or because they have exemptions, but because they are self-entitled pricks.
And from observation, usually more affluent looking, white, middle aged SEPs of both gender.
If it's you, just stop it.
I'm in a supermarket twice a week and very occasionally another shop. I've not seen any adult without a mask inside since we were told to wear them.
There was a bit of a discussion in the office yesterday and it would be good to hear STWs take on this.
So a few points that all generally agreed first
1) There are people dying
2) If there was a stricter lockdown less people are likely to die
3) The pensionable aged person is more likely to die and is less economically impacted so disproportionally benefits from lockdowns
4) Young people are less effected by the virus and are suffering the greatest economic impact and are therefore disproportionally negatively effected by lockdowns
5) The government has, to date, run up ££££ billions of debt to pay for supporting people through lockdowns
6) If stricter lockdowns are put in place (i.e. forcing more businesses to close meaning more people stay in the house) the government will have to increase national debt by £££££££ billions more to support individuals (furlough payments) and businesses (i.e. cancel business rates, cover business rents and utility costs, etc.) if we want anyone to make it through this
7) Taxes (predominantly income tax) are likely to rise to cover the costs of the lockdown measures.
So given the above was mostly agreed by all parties involved on to the question:
Given the pensionable aged person disproportionally benefits from lockdowns and the young are disproportionally negatively effected, to enable the economic recovery should those that benefit the most also have to shoulder the burden of servicing the debt through changing to a means tested access to age related state benefits (state pension, free bus passes, free TV licenses, heating allowances etc.)?
The views of those in the office involved in the discussion :
The older people - No way, we've paid in so we are entitled and deserve those benefits.
The young people - You lot benefit from this and we're getting shat on so why should we bear the entire economic cost
So, what do STW think?
Masks you say!?
I say mandatory boxing gloves for the coffin dodger cohort, so they find it hard to pick up every item in the bloody shop, examine it, and then put it back.
Including tinned food.
Special props to the old age prick in Tesco, Stafford who picked up every single baguette (about 15 of them), examined them, gave them a few squeezes and then put them back.