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Did you read the link?
It does say:
will not be allowed inside, unless they are medically exempt.
Yeah but i can walk up to the doors without a mask and say i'm medically exempt but i'm not, and they can't challenge that. That is wrong.
Only found this interesting stat on Supermarkets on a news site and not the original source, but it looks like supermarkets could be more iffy than going to the doctors.
Try reading it properly, its not saying they caught it in a supermarket.
It's saying those are the activities/places of work where they had been in the last days, hardly surprising supermarkets would be up there considering they're the only things consistently open.
Supermarkets were highest reported location back in Week 46 in November; however, at that time, Isabel Oliver, Director of the National Infection Service at Public Health England said it would be inaccurate to suggest that supermarkets are causing the virus to spread.
However I agree that supermarkets should enforce wearing of masks and not just to walk through the door but throughout the time the individuals are in. Morrisons in Meltham weren't enforcing it today as there was two scag heads walking around with their masks round their necks.
You may want to read the research from WHO and European Disease Prevention. A summary of *some* of the reports they have is that the original Cv19 strain was not caught or even transmitted by many children under adolescent age – the theories were a few but many focussed on pre-pubescent bodies not having developed various glands/hormones/whatever that helped Cv19 both infect or even ‘hang around’ in most of them.
As a few people missed Matt's reply re the "science" behind the belief tha kids didn't spread the virus, I've copied it. The reports were commented about on here, most of us thought it didn't pass the common sense test, but there was "science" behind the decisions made at the time, however flawed it appears now.
Those figures say absolutely nothing about where people caught the virus. That the most common place people had been in the past 7 days was a supermarket is hardly a shocker is it
Agree entirely - yes we need to be more careful in supermarkets as we should be in any indoor space, but those figures prove nothing about actual infection paths.
My local sainsbury had strict queing before entry in march, now there's nothing.
Just fat people wandering around, blocking the isles with a trolley as per usual.
And thanks, Kelvin, we don't agree on everything on this forum and we've had our moments, but you're one of the people who saw what was coming and have consistentently encouraged people to behave responsibly.
Edit: because I seem to have lost the first part of my post. I saw a German TV report about where the virus is transmitted (as opposed to where people had been before testing positive), supermarkets were way down the list - masks were already obligatory in German shops by the time of the study. I'm too lazy to try and hunt down the source again but the places at the top of the list were collective accomodation, the work place, the home... .
Might have already been asked and it's not really a nice question but...
...will the are people aren't people still capable of being infectious once vaccinated be settled fairly quickly with front line medical staff now getting their jabs?
We still have queuing at my local supermarket and I'm yet to see anyone in there without a mask. Same goes for my local greengrocer, bakery and butcher.
the theories were a few but many focussed on pre-pubescent bodies not having developed various glands/hormones/whatever that helped Cv19 both infect or even ‘hang around’ in most of them
but there was “science” behind the decisions made at the time
That wasn’t science, it was hunches. And, even if by luck those hunches had been correct… what about adolescents? Schools have been dumped in it since the summer, more so here than in any comparable country. Secondary schools, were those adolescents attend, the worst. We are all paying the price for the lack of support (and out right hostility) from the government as regards social distancing measures for secondary school pupils and staff.
That wasn’t science, it was hunches
Hence my use of "science". I'm not disagreeing with what you say, I was simply trying to show that there were greater minds than Boris' who felt that kids were not the risk that the rest of us assumed them to be, which made the political decision to reopen schools - which was a good thing for my kids mental health at least - a gamble the government felt was worth taking.
The fact that both their schools went way beyond the government guidelines as far as distancing and masks is probably what restricted the spread of the virus compared to what other schools have gone through, from reports of others on here. I can't believe the government didn't do more to protect staff and pupils, or act on the advice from SAGE on 21st September when the first warning signs made it clear what was happening.
Obviously there can be coincidences and flukes, but if you had multiple sclerosis, would you not be pressing to have one of the other vaccines or avoid them altogether?
Having just read up on this and also having MS, I am happy to take whichever vaccine I'm offered.
Russell96
Full MemberOnly found this interesting stat on Supermarkets on a news site and not the original source, but it looks like supermarkets could be more iffy than going to the doctors.
Those stats could equally just be saying "most people go to supermarkets, hardly anyone is going to their GP's surgery just now" The odds of most people getting infected in a GP's surgery is absolutely 0
The local Tesco has auto closing doors and a traffic light system if it starts getting above a certain number of people. Sainsbury's has them queuing outside at busy periods.
Most people wearing masks, the ones who aren't certainly get lots of looks and sarcastic comments directed at them.
Great news
My mum has been double vaccinated.
Not seen her in a year as she is proper old, and i wasnt able to fully isolate for enough days to reduce the risk.
The traffic lights don't seem to be working at our local aldi, but I think we are going when it is quiet so they are not on.
not seen anyone without a mask for a while in shops round here, and a fair number wearing them while walking around outside too
My mum has been double vaccinated.
Lovely to hear that.
Those stats could equally just be saying “most people go to supermarkets, hardly anyone is going to their GP’s surgery just now”
almost 100% of people with a positive Covid diagnosis had a piss in the 48 hours prior. Hold it in people, it's the safest thing.
Even if it was the supermarkets, what exactly is the solution? Go forage in the woods instead?
I’m happy to leave the very limited home delivery slots for those more at risk than me/people self isolating
We are on the brink of a perfect storm -
Cut our contacts, get our old folk vaccinated, and stay kept away
- we can do it, concerted effort, one more month.
It's shit out anyway
– we can do it, concerted effort, one more month.
You honestly think this will only last 1 more month? I can't see lockdown ending by middle of feb.
Easter is my bet. Might be a slightly lighter lockdown in March. But not sooner
I'd take that. Gradual loosening of restrictions starting in March. Everything that survives fully open by June/July.
I’d take that. Gradual loosening of restrictions starting in March. Everything that survives fully open by June/July.
Probably.
But masks and social distancing in place through till September.
I won't be approaching anything like normal till I've been vaccinated, first jab due June/July, full protection September/October. And by that point less than half of us will have been vaccinated. The societal effects will be diminished, individual risk will still be there
I'm paraphrasing but was told last night of an edict that came out from DfE Sunday night saying children of key workers should be in school irrespective of if the key worker can work from home or has alternative care available. This accompanied by a list of key worker occupations about 4 pages long. Basically if you get paid to walk and chew gum you're on that list. Schools closed my arse. Pr1cks.
An email from work (Education FE college) hinted an expectation for this to last till easter, those thinking feb really need to rethink that.
Supermarkets are a strange one, a cashier at tesco was saying how difficult it is to get people to wear masks and follow the rules, every saturday on family of 5 goes into the store dispite being told repeatedly that only one family member should by going into the store.
I dont see the roads any quieter, certainly not as quiet as the first lockdown, same goes for local woods, very busy at the weekend but i kind of expect that.
Working from home is worse this time round as we are being "quality audited" regularly. Which is having a negative impact, i think the mental heath fallout from this will be a much bigger issue to the economy further along.
This accompanied by a list of key worker occupations about 4 pages long.
It now includes anyone working on the Brexit fallout. Heads around here say that complying with the list would mean greater then 60% attendance. As you can imagine, trying to keep attendance down (crazy that schools should need to be doing this) is causing a lot of friction with parents.
I dont see the roads any quieter, certainly not as quiet as the first lockdown, same goes for local woods, very busy at the weekend but i kind of expect that.
No shortage of caravans on the M1 on Sunday and cars packed with 4+ people. But what can you do, put roadblocks in?
Heathrow was, weirdly, packed with people. Border Force officers not checking for locator forms, nor wearing masks (is this a bit of a pathetic display of power?). You have to show evidence of a negative Covid=19 test before travelling into the UK, but unsurprisingly all this leads to is a roaring black market for fake test results.
Other countries test on arrival and don't let you leave the airport or hotel until you get results. That's what we should be doing.
I’m paraphrasing but was told last night of an edict that came out from DfE Sunday night saying children of key workers should be in school irrespective of if the key worker can work from home or has alternative care available. This accompanied by a list of key worker occupations about 4 pages long. Basically if you get paid to walk and chew gum you’re on that list. Schools closed my arse. Pr1cks
Think this has now changed. from the .gov pages
"Critical workers
Parents whose work is critical to the coronavirus (COVID-19) and EU transition response include those who work in health and social care and in other key sectors outlined in the following sections. Children with at least one parent or carer who is a critical worker can go to school or college if required, but parents and carers should keep their children at home if they can."
It's been said before, but what kind of incompetent moron clownshow would actually go ahead with the EU transition at THE VERY WORST POINT in this pandemic?
sorry, back to usual service...
It’s been said before, but what kind of incompetent moron clownshow would actually go ahead with the EU transition at THE VERY WORST POINT in this pandemic?
One that thinks its a good day to bury bad news?
Damage avoidance isn't everyone's aim...
[ conspiracy theory hat off ]
...well, if damage avoidance was one of Johnson's aims... he's useless at that as well as everything else.
Reading this article on excess deaths really shows what the true impact has been. The death rate graph shows we are a significantly higher rate than the last 10 years, going well against the trend. All that good work in healthcare, less smoking, safety etc. Very frightening.
BBC News - Covid: 2020 saw most excess deaths since World War Two
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55631693
Week 53 annual mortality figures are published. My analysis
Overall reported deaths in England and Wales in 2020 were 614,114 deaths compared to a ten-year mean 513,872 (range 484,391 to 539,340 for 2010-19), implying an excess mortality of 100,242 (95% CI 50,832 to 149,652) over ten-year reference.
Adjusting for population growth using ONS figures, the annual mortality rate increased from a ten-year mean of 892 deaths per 100,000 to 1033 deaths/100,000 in 2020, an increase of 141 deaths/100,000 (95% CI 92 to 191) equal to an increase of 15.8% over ten-year reference.
Based on underlying annual variation in all-cause mortality, the 2020 population-adjusted excess mortality is 6.4 standard deviations over ten-year reference mean ( P < 0.0001). Euromomo warning weekly threshold for excess mortality is placed at 4 standard deviations for seasonal monitoring of deaths.
I think this is not a bad outcome, personally.
Were you not once saying that "not a bad outcome" would be 20,000 excess deaths, or am I misremembering?
No that was Patrick Vallance (I have no idea where that prediction came from - I wasn't on SPI-M then). I was hoping to be under 100k over the winter. Then came a new strain :-(.
mattyfez
Free MemberMy local sainsbury had strict queing before entry in march, now there’s nothing.
Mine too but then in March they were fighting panic buying which was filling shops up, now tbh they just feel fairly calm and normal. Wish people kept a little bit more distance when moving around but that's a different thing. I'm fairly sure the shops have the ability to still do it but are operating under the capacity where you have to
(Except for the one Scotmid down the road which always feels like the adult equivalent of a measles party)
I was hoping to be under 100k over the winter.
I just looked back.. you were saying a good outcome for the spring outbreak(s) would be 40,000... and if we didn't avoid a winter outbreak(s) then 100k... your memory is much better than mine!
At least I didn't say that the epidemic was "largely over due to herd immunity" in October 😉
So........
colleague who worked in Covid ward over Xmas, last worked there on 1st Jan, but since commuting from MK to london on train & tube
she was vaccinated (pfizer) on the 4th, part of a study so daily lateral flow tests
tested negative every day, complained of temperature on weds thurs, but assumed was from vaccine, unitil friday, when she tested positive saturday she then had a an rt pcr , second lateral flow was positive on sunday, result on monday was inconclusive, just got her retest done and it came back negative, but lateral flow today was positive!
as a result my work bubble are all isolating until we figure out whats going on (I last worked with her on thursday, masks, distancing etc)
persoanlly I think she has it but vaccine has meant its more mild & not enough for rt-pcr to pick up, but its odd that lateral flow has, as it is less sensnitive & less likely to give false +ve!
(vaccine shouldnt interefere with either test as thats to spike protein & tests target different genes)
4th vaccine
9th +ve lat flow
9th +/- rt-pcr
10th -ve rt-pcr
11th +ve lat flow
IDK what take home here is but its making me worry more about testing regime!
Many will disagree but my piss is well and truly boiled by the Home secretary and a copper coming on telly and effectively blaming the British rule breaking public for this current mess
That briefing was woeful.....
How hard is it to answer a straight question?
At no point did they define 'local' when asked about exercise, the police bloke sounded clueless....
persoanlly I think she has it but vaccine has meant its more mild & not enough for rt-pcr to pick up
Negative PCR. Presumably negative for multiple genes (O/N/S)? What about S gene dropout new variant (You're in the SE). Lateral flow test for just Spike protein? Or an antibody lateral flow test? If she's pcr negative for O and N genes, then she's negative.
EDIT after digging, innova targets (N)ucleocapsid
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sars-cov-2-lateral-flow-antigen-tests-evaluation-of-vui-20201201/sars-cov-2-lateral-flow-antigen-tests-evaluation-of-vui-20201201
So don't know what to make of it either!
Most pertinent question was why rules are less tight in this lockdown than the first one, she was asked it twice and failed to answer
Theres some fairly decent answers she could have given, too, very frustrating
you were saying a good outcome for the spring outbreak(s) would be 40,000… and if we didn’t avoid a winter outbreak(s) then 100k
I reckon he should think about doing this for a living
Most pertinent question was why rules are less tight in this lockdown than the first one, she was asked it twice and failed to answer
The only real difference is social/childcare bubbles exist and the fact that many businesses that didn't legally need to close last time but did, have stayed open. The given reasons for leaving home are similar along with the restrictions (basically none) once you've done so. People are in general no longer scared so many more are following the actual law/rules rather than the guidance. In the first lockdown many went way beyond even that.
Many will disagree but my piss is well and truly boiled by the Home secretary and a copper coming on telly and effectively blaming the British rule breaking public for this current mess
I think honestly it's a bit of both - the government is reprrehensible, but a lot of people are being less than sensible.