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I’m disappointed that the Gov scientists data seems to have been flawed and they are now backtracking
What backtracking they’re continuing on the model as planned bringing in different control measures at the right time.
Wait, what? I thought the plan was for us to get herd immunity?
My mobile basically stopped working for most of the day yesterday.
Ee say its across all networks, if it gets worse big communications challenges!
BBC News - UK mobile networks face problems
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51926565
That's me clocking on in the rabbit hole.
Wasn't sure what I'd post, maybe something about a predicted ratio of armchair theorising : touching human posts for the day. Thought 70:30 with an extra 9 pages on the thread.
In other news, FB has sent me nice messages saying I'd breached community standards on Spam on my own FB page. I haven't even been panic buying spam. The offending posts being from that hot bed of miss information the Independent. Some may see this as big brother - It's not. The Fluffy Bunny Protocal has kicked in - a lesser known automatic failsafe - applies when the proportion of cat memes to other posts falls below 30%.
Have a good day people
Have a good day people
You too, I'm off to school soon, not sure why anymore, my virus resistant herd isnt needed apparently.
You too, I’m off to school soon, not sure why anymore, my virus resistant herd isnt needed apparently.
Cheers - look after yourself
Was trying to put up the MapScaping map of home working, seems to be a fail on that.
Oh Christ! Things are getting really bad now. Are people not suffering enough?
https://twitter.com/rollingstone/status/1240093918814969856?s=21
I read to page 87 but its giving me a strange feeling in belly so I might have to stop.
My thoughts for what they are worth.
As a barber I am still working,(my diary is still full) we already work to appointments and I am going to add appointments where only one of us works at a time to introduce over 70 slots for those that are desperate. I know getting a haircut isn't important in the scheme of things but thats humans for you.
The over 70's that I know or meet are mostly a lot less worried than we are. They feel that they have seen and dealt with more than us and that we are being alarmist.
I feel that all bets are off and that life as we know it will change completely for a while, possibly forever. And I know realise that at 49 years old, growing up in UK that nothing major has ever happened to us, this our first time so its no wonder we are anxious, everything else has happened somewhere else in the world, to someone else.
Having lost my Mum to MND last January, I had to watch her lungs slowly stop working and I like many of you feel strongly in favour of a change to our laws regarding euthansia. If we get to the point of the Doctors having to choose who lives then they should be given temporary permission to help those suffering to go. I can deal with grief but not the thought of suffering. My Dad isn't a well man, he has a DNR in place and he says that while he isn't in a rush to go he is happy with what he has had, what an amazing man he is.
Stay safe people.
What backtracking they’re continuing on the model as planned bringing in different control measures at the right time.
Backtracking, revising, whatever - the point is that if new info comes to light (eg: timescale is faster than they envisaged) then as scientists they're big enough to say so and do it. As opposed to just pushing ahead anyway because 'ideology'
Sadly - partly because of previous pronouncements on the faith we now put in experts; partly because any sign of modifying/redirecting strategy results in idiots repeatedly pointing it out as if it was a sign of stupidiy / weakness, it's getting harder to admit you were 'wrong' nowadays.
We make a plan, we see how it's going and if it needs modifying we modify it.
Did anyone see Jeremy Hunt on newsnight ?
Was gobsmacking, he admitted that cuts to social care & not training enough doctors & nurses was a terrible mistake.
He's still an absolute .... for what he did as health secretary but amazing to see a politician admit it.
#Dracforsupremeleader
If there’s a lock down ...could I drive 3 miles from my house to my shop?
I wouldn’t be in contact with anyone.
It would be a perfect time to paint the walls and change the layout.
Facebook censoring posts about the virus now. You know when I said earlier we could be similar to a communist state? Command economy, police and army on the streets (soon), and censorship of social media. Good luck comrades. See you in the gulag 🙁.
Facebook censoring posts about the virus now. You know when I said earlier we could be similar to a communist state? Command economy, police and army on the streets (soon), and censorship of social media. Good luck comrades. See you in the gulag
Yet earlier on people were screaming for media to be curtailed blaming them for the rise in panic situations. Make your minds up, or stop moaning for the sake of it and do something positive.
Yet earlier on people were screaming for media to be curtailed blaming them for the rise in panic situations. Make your minds up, or stop moaning for the sake of it and do something positive.
As before - I have had three posts where I received a this is Spam and only you can see it warning:
1) Repost from the Indy FB page - comment from me "Oh" - Indy post about Domanic Raab
2) Repost from the Indy FB page - no comment from me - story around the whole is it isnt re-infection
3) Post from me - total nonsense arm chair theory, which my mates would understand is complete nonsense and sense of humour.
It was a bit flip because FB is and will be through this one of my main ways of keeping in touch with people. I don't really want to find out if they can suspend your account - that would be me properly socially isolated. Every day a new thing.
Anyway that's the minor trials of the OAP; posting to see if this is a thing thing.
Did anyone see Jeremy Hunt on newsnight ?
Was gobsmacking, he admitted that cuts to social care & not training enough doctors & nurses was a terrible mistake.
He’s still an absolute …. for what he did as health secretary but amazing to see a politician admit it.
Hopefully his Road to Damascus moment is as contagious in the halls of power as covid-19 seems to be.
My concern is that real power was leached away to 'the market' too much too long ago.
Facebook censoring posts about the virus now. You know when I said earlier we could be similar to a communist state? Command economy, police and army on the streets (soon), and censorship of social media. Good luck comrades. See you in the gulag 🙁.
Good. One less platform for the panic merchants.
Denying people a platform to amplify and spread shite doesn't equal censorship.
What backtracking they’re continuing on the model as planned bringing in different control measures at the right time.
+1
if new info comes to light (eg: timescale is faster than they envisaged) then as scientists they’re big enough to say so and do it.
+1. Top blokes. I can't imagine the pressure they're under. They've been lumbered with the near imossible task of trying to minimise the damage this does. I couldn't have handled it and would have walked away, I bet I'm not the only one. They deserve our gratitude not critisizm.
#Dracforsupremeleader
He does seem to be the voice of reason in this thread. Respect to him.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
The two posts were the medium stats article, and the Washington post article, both of which were giving clear logical encouragement to practice social distancing.
Good. One less platform for the panic merchants.
Denying people a platform to amplify and spread shite doesn’t equal censorship.
Except this isnt sharing to the outside wider world of groups its sharing on your own personal page. Sharing from legitimate main stream media - some may have views on the Indy on that front. Seen an article on Techcrunch saying it was a glitch with the filters or over zealous application of them - I still prefer my cat memes theory.
Facebook censoring posts about the virus now.
Great! I hope they extend it to the anti-vaxers and all other associated ****-wits spreading dangerous lies and misinformation.
I'm always staggered that people look to social media for information, given that its an unregulated space where any old lunatic can say whatever they like and pass it off as fact.
But apparently people do, so if this marks the beginning of some kind of reigning in of the wilder excesses, then it's a good thing and would mark them actually taking responsibility for the horse-shit that gets peddled as 'facts' on their platforms.
Command economy, police and army on the streets (soon), and censorship of social media.
Don't be ridiculous! Hysterical nonsense! pointing out that people are talking bollocks on the interweb is hardly the establishment of a police state, is it?
Hysterical nonsense! pointing out that people are talking bollocks is hardly the establishment of a police state, is it?
No the police state is currently being enshrined in law as we speak. I'm not saying it's not necessary, given everyone here is carrying on as normal and still saying 'it's just the flu, what's all the fuss about' it almost definitely is. Sharing non-official news articles should not be censored though, especially if they're critical of the government's deficient response.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1240042142678089730?s=20
I’m always staggered that people look to social media for information, given that its an unregulated space where any old lunatic can say whatever they like and pass it off as fact.
As we noted earlier in this (or possilby another coronavirus thread), that's not far off Kuensberg's Tory re-tweets on the BBC News Homepage.
In work today, partially closed school, have one lesson to teach, bored off my tits but cant stay at home and work there till needed.
I’m always staggered that people look to social media for information, given that its an unregulated space where any old lunatic can say whatever they like and pass it off as fact
Johnson has been skipping critical or tough interviews (Neil, Today,GMB)
In favour of carefully selected questions on Facebook
& It's worked very well for him so far
Can we just go for - Facebook filtering have done something odd, alarmist nonsense outside the safe space of the rabbit hole is bad. Seems like it's a tech issue. Otherwise we're going to chew through all the tinfoil never mind the bog roll before we're finished. We all need hats now and then.
Are Peston and Kuensburg being used as mouthpieces to soften us up? Seems to me that they're being fed pieces with more extreme numbers and dates than the government subsequently announces.
On a similar note, ITV news was on in the background yesterday- for a while it seemed like one of those Pathe newsreels from WWII designed to keep morale up.
Except this isnt sharing to the outside wider world of groups its sharing on your own personal page. Sharing from legitimate main stream media – some may have views on the Indy on that front. Seen an article on Techcrunch saying it was a glitch with the filters or over zealous application of them – I still prefer my cat memes theory.
Most of the hysterical content on facebook I've seen is being very widely disseminated through popular local news pages, not through individuals. Mrs Miggins take a snapshop of her decimated local Tesco and posts it to "News and Views Cleethorpes" and it gets pinged out to 10,000 people who share it. For all the BBC News facebook feeds, you have many more of the opaque "News and Incidents North East" volunteer type outfits that share any old crap with zero accountability. "Panic reported at A&E after man with CV dies the general hospital". This isn't to mention all the overtly conspiratorial groups in Facebook.
Facebook is an absolute aberration at the best of times, and this type of event just highlights how flawed a concept it is. They're stuck between the fact that fear and anger drives interactions (which is good for business), but building a business on stoking fear and anger is corrosive.
On a similar note, ITV news was on in the background yesterday- for a while it seemed like one of those Pathe newsreels from WWII designed to keep morale up.
BBC news actually said the following to end their Coronavirus report last night
"This is the challenge of our generation... to find the great in Britain and defend our proud island nation"
I swore at the telly. They've been at it on Radio 4 this morning too with the world war 2 references, in this case Vera Lynn and the 'Spirit of the Blitz'
Oh do just **** right off!!
Most of the hysterical content on facebook I’ve seen is being very widely disseminated through popular local news pages, not through individuals
and on this thread
and on this thread
+100..
I reckon that police state law was coming anyway after Brexit - quell the rebellion and so on. The Government have just seen an opportunity to bring it in 8 months early.
To some (mostly the very very wealthy), this is an unbelievable opportunity and it has the double bonus that when a No Deal Brexit crash-lands on 1st January 2021, we'll all be softened up by months of virus restrictions and all the shortages and massive recession can be blamed on coronavirus.
Just wondering when the STW public opinion might swing to actually closing schools?
Some hope, I’d assume it’d require a huge testing network to catch cases early enough to be effective, assuming you have ready access to the drug in the first place.
Just wondering when the STW public opinion might swing to actually closing schools?
Schools are making that call. Waiting for the government to give instructions is pointless risk. Schools are, and will increasingly, shut or reduce the number of kids and teachers attending.
Some hope,
That's another reason why following self-isolation advice is so crucial. We need to flatten the peak to give research like the above the chance to test more widely, and for pharma companies to scale up production of candidate drugs.
Nice to see at least some hope out there though.
If there’s a lock down …could I drive 3 miles from my house to my shop?
I wouldn’t be in contact with anyone.
If we follow what other European countries are doing, yes. You wouldn’t be opening your shop and travelling to/from work is ok.
RM.
Just wondering when the STW public opinion might swing to actually closing schools?
They should have shut on Tuesday when they announced the social distancing measures. Keeping them open is giving people all the justification they need to carry on as normal. Until the govt discovers it's backbone and enforces this no one is going to take it seriously.
Like everything the government plan to shut schools when no one turns up...
I took my kids out of school yesterday.
@dazh: kids are at pretty much zero risk. The grandparents who'd be looking after many of them, even if aged under 70, are higher risk of getting seriously ill. Kids with coughs go home, family isolates, full lockdown happens more slowly.
Schools are making that call.
Only as and when they dont have enough staff, without government action schools will stay open as much as they can.
The risk “to kids” is irrelevant, it is about controlling the spread of this virus. Something that should be priority number one, together with testing, and should have been last week.
Just wondering when the STW public opinion might swing to actually closing schools?
The government are passengers on this in particular.
The usual demographics will still apply so the sub section of staff and pupils who would always have been looking for an opportunity for a free holiday will take it. This will make it less and less possible for the remainder to hold any sort of line.
There will be many genuine cases too - so ability to function will fall away. By hook or by crook they'll be closed by the end of Friday IMO.
FWIW I do believe that the vast majority of staff and pupils wouldn't try to game it, but when the dam breaks, it breaks.
Various measures from local schools and colleges :
- some are completely closed from today or tomorrow
- some are staying open just for children of medical and other key staff (child minding not teaching)
- some are staying open for some year groups only (youngest and/or exam year)
kids are at pretty much zero risk. T
What about staff and the families of staff?
The government are passengers on this
They are choosing to be passengers.
By hook or by crook they’ll be closed by the end of Friday IMO.
I'm not convinced, without government instructions schools will stay open with ever dwindling numbers of staff and pupils.
They should have shut on Tuesday when they announced the social distancing measures.
Should they?
I thought the thing was that shutting schools was one of the least effective isolation measures. Plus, major disruption, etc.
Wife works in a school. They're still open until told otherwise. However a number of staff at having to self isolate so if it reaches a tipping point they'll have to close due to lack of staff.
We'll that is until the Gov alter rules on staff:pupil ratios.
A few schools round here are already closing due to lack of staff.
I thought the thing was that shutting schools was one of the least effective isolation measures.
Why would you think that? Does it stand up to any serious examination at all? Or are you just repeating something you’ve been told?
Plus, major disruption, etc.
This is very true, and key. But should the government not be involved in mitigation measures, and giving both schools and parents clear guidance and support?
We (school) are still open, but several schools around here have closed. We're looking at partial closure, starting with years 9, 10 and 12. We'll also be offering child care for students with parents in NHS/important services etc. About half of my form were out this morning.
We have no idea what's going on, schools are all making their own decisions, guidance from the government is non-existent.
I think it is in the Imperial report that shows that all the other measure on social distancing are more effective than shutting schools so that will be the last thing. There is a link to the report a few pages back.
There’s been a bit of fake news over ibuprofen and CV, but it seems from the BMJ there might be something in it, so paracetamol only in my house.
Should they?
Pretty much everyone I know who has kids has said to me 'What's the point in us not going out if we are sending our kids to school to catch it and bring it home'. They're right. If reducing the spread is the primary goal, then we should eliminate what is probably the primary vector for that spread. The risk to kids is irrelevant, it's their ability to spread it to those who are at high risk.
I thought the thing was that shutting schools was one of the least effective isolation measures.
Macron said the opposite.
We have years 7, 11 and 13 in today, about half of year 7 arent in. Not sure on others.
My daughter is a primary teacher & says about 50% of pupils didn't arrive today. Mainly due to someone in their home with symptoms. Pupils predominately from the Asian community which means many homes will have family members covering several generations. A couple of homes in my street also have that added issue of very young and very old living together.
Should they?
I thought the thing was that shutting schools was one of the least effective isolation measures. Plus, major disruption, etc.
Yup, the downsides of shutting schools are not too difficult to understand.
Stikes me as the right call for all the obvious reasons.
Kelvin
Schools are making that call. Waiting for the government to give instructions is pointless risk. Schools are, and will increasingly, shut or reduce the number of kids and teachers attending.
From our school it seems that they are waiting to be told.
Yr 6 had a trip to the football club arranged Tue/Wed (which is partly a council trip who are also landowners) this week [FC already closed with conformed cases] but the school just carried on as normal until 7am
The email said the council had cancelled the trip.... the way I read that is "we didn't have the balls to make a decision".
johnx2
kids are at pretty much zero risk.
Yeah so tell that to my boy, here is is in St. Thomas' P-ICU intubated for 10 days with novovirus.
He stopped breathing and had resuss countless times in those 10 days
The grandparents who’d be looking after many of them, even if aged under 70, are higher risk of getting seriously ill. Kids with coughs go home, family isolates, full lockdown happens more slowly.
So what happens to the parents in a high risk group or grandparents who live with them?
dazh
They should have shut on Tuesday when they announced the social distancing measures. Keeping them open is giving people all the justification they need to carry on as normal. Until the govt discovers it’s backbone and enforces this no one is going to take it seriously.
Amongst other things yes amongst some... and it's also amongst others simply making for a feeling of hopelessness that whilst the plan seems to be to infect everyone through their kids there is no point taking other measures. I also happen to be in a vulnerable group (possibly but who knows) because I have a compromised immune system so from a personal PoV I feel it would be better to get it ahead of the curve as the school will spread it back regardless of whatever else I do or do not do.
Macron said the opposite.
They're a bit further down the path than we are. No doubt there will come a time when the balance changes and the UK closes schools too. (An obvious time would be around the Easter Holiday.)
As if things are not bad enough, the whole of central govt is about to grind to a halt...
Some hope, I’d assume it’d require a huge testing network to catch cases early enough to be effective, assuming you have ready access to the drug in the first place
Don't hold your breath. I reviewed the PMDA review of the approval
plus the recent publication on inhibition of COVID-19 in vitro. Whilst it may be possible, it will require large doses, issues of toxicity and IV administration. We shall see.
It's not approveed in EU or US.
How soon is the start of the Easter school holidays? Perhaps the backstop was get to that as people are more likely to have some form of plan in place for kids being out of school. Then there is an 'island' to deal take the next steps from. That said events are moving so fast. Despite our relative concerns about government methods there is an massive amount to get through - ok, maybe an understatement - it is how do you eat an elephant. Thinking about most this is - yes, got that, oh but, repeat.
It's like opening shops for early for high risk groups. Entering a clean environment - good. Better chance of finding stock on shelves - good. How do they get there... public transport, early bus, clean, good. What about the later ones once other people have used them. How about by car? What about risk... The only certainty is people in communities will pulling together to get it to work. We're all just making this up as we go along. We are all facing different permutations of situations - most of us are stressed to some degree or other.
Despite my views on Mr Johnson - you have to want him to have got the right answers but have to accept no major situation ever, ever goes to plan.
the plan seems to be to infect everyone
Yes, there's no vaccine and may never be one so everyone has to be infected to get resistance. There's no alternative.
It's just a case of trying to limit new cases to a level where we all get infected without overwhelming the NHS.
No, that’s not the plan. Catch up. Stop spreading that misunderstanding.
While people are still thinking “we’ll all get it, and then we’ll have herd immunity, so why change my life to stop myself spreading it” we’re on course for a very poor outcome. We very well may be looking at a virus that requires intervention to be stopped… a combination of existing antiviral drugs yet to be identified as useful, new vaccines, and stopping spread by stopping contact.
There’s been a bit of fake news over ibuprofen and CV, but it seems from the BMJ there might be something in it,
So it isn't fake news then?
Stevextc. I've nothing to say but best wishes to your lad. I hope he's home before too long. Must be horrific for you.
Whatever - just trying to help.
As if things are not bad enough, the whole of central govt is about to grind to a halt…
Daz - In between typing your increasingly hysterical missives, I'm picturing you doing this
😀
Perfect.
@dazh: kids are at pretty much zero risk. The grandparents who’d be looking after many of them, even if aged under 70, are higher risk of getting seriously ill. Kids with coughs go home, family isolates, full lockdown happens more slowly.
Only that's not happening. Kids at my wife's school are still being sent in coughing and spluttering all over the place. The parents are saying it's just a minor cold and to crack on. Her school is being seen as child care as clearly the guidelines don't apply to some parents.
Even once the kids get sent home, they are still in school for a couple of hours 'till picked up. That spreading on door handles, their registration classes etc
Daz – In between typing your increasingly hysterical missives, I’m picturing you doing this
🤣👍
Steve XTC - one of my work colleagues is also immune compromised. We’ve just been txting and it seems that virus progression is much less in immunocompromised groups.
So I popped into the local supermarket today and got nasty wake up call. No bog roll at all, only a few rolls of kitchen roll left. Pasta and Rice decimated and the freezer aisles were looking 1/4 full. No paracetamol and only a few ibuprofen. FFS it's not the end if the world.
What is wrong with people? I got really angry watching old people wandering up and down the aisles looking for things that were gone. These people cannot either carry and/or afford to stock up.🤬
Spoke to the vet yesterday and he said they aren't letting people stock up on animal meds to stop shortages occurring.
RaNT over.
Yeah so tell that to my boy, here is is in St. Thomas’ P-ICU intubated for 10 days with novovirus.
He stopped breathing and had resuss countless times in those 10 days
Whilst this must have been unimaginably awful, it is a different virus.
This virus is apparently unusual in that it doesn't have much effect on the young, unlike most others including novo, where they are typically one of the highest at risk categories.
Macron said the opposite.
They’re a bit further down the path than we are. No doubt there will come a time when the balance changes and the UK closes schools too. (An obvious time would be around the Easter Holiday.)
What is the clinical relevance of "Easter"?
France shut schools, Poland (not ahead) also did and I'm sure many other places as well.
Everyone else (except the US) seems to be following the WHO guidance...
Yes, there’s no vaccine and may never be one so everyone has to be infected to get resistance. There’s no alternative.
Of course there is an alternative it is the one the WHO are advising.
There are plenty of communicable diseases to which there is no vaccine (or safe/effective one) yet they are managed. There is also a distinct possibility of a vaccine at some point.
It’s just a case of trying to limit new cases to a level where we all get infected without overwhelming the NHS.
It doesn't seem anything like that, indeed the exact opposite.
What it seems like is trying to get this over as quickly as possible for the economy and using schools as a very poorly targeted transmission vector.
They’re a bit further down the path than we are
He did it a week ago and given the lack of testing in the UK especially amongst those with minor symptoms, like school kids, we have no real idea how far down the path we are.
My SIL is also a teacher and is isolating with fever, cough and muscle aches, not tested though and her school is still open.
Both Singapore and Taiwan have been pretty successful at combating growth and have kept their schools open, Sweden was certainly keeping their schools open too.