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Would it be generalising to say:
We went our own way on virus control compared to the rest of the world. Then we had to back pedal furiously as it became apparent there was going to be massive collateral damage.
We are now going our own way on supporting and protecting people and organisations.
To be continued...
don’t see the issue with doubling the limit, for bigger purchases... with apps these days you could always have some two stage verification so people only touch their personal phone as well.
Many people are still using pubs to try and keep their local from going out of business and their friends losing their jobs and having no incomes.
Then there’s that too. No real easy answer at all just.
with apps these days you could always have some two stage verification so people only touch their personal phone as well.
Most retailers have no limit for Apple Pay.
Most retailers have no limit for Apple Pay.
Most shoppers don't have Apple phones.
tpbiker - sounds like a very good idea and would be relatively simple/easy to implement. I'd go so far as to suggest that any temporary increase would end up being permanent anyway.
3 month mortgage holiday for those effected.
Quantified by "those who find themselves in difficulties"
No clarification on what those difficulties are defined as. As soon as you are unemployed? Once you are 6 months in arrears? When you are on the brink of repossession? Before then?
On the face of it a reassuring statement but worded with such a wooly caveat that it essentially means nothing 🙄
Most shoppers don’t have Apple phones.
🤦🏻♂️ I know.
On the face of it a reassuring statement but worded with such a wooly caveat that it essentially means nothing
Details will be developed/uncovered day by day. Except that. Welcome any travel in the right direction, but push to keep them moving.
No clarification on what those difficulties are defined as. As soon as you are unemployed? Once you are 6 months in arrears? When you are on the brink of repossession? Before then?
I’m sure the details will come out. It was a speech about the plans not a power point presentation on how it will work.
Many people are still using pubs to try and keep their local from going out of business and their friends losing their jobs and having no incomes.
Waves.
2 coffee shops and a pub visited today. All very quiet, all staffed or owned by friends of mine and all need all the support we can get.
I’m going for lunch at my favourite restaurant on Friday, partly as I want to support the wonderful folk who own it, partly as the food is incredible, and partly as I’m not sure they’ll still be open by the end of the month.
Oh and my local pub are doing takeouts so they’ll get a visit later too.
But I’m fit, heathy and have no interaction with at risk groups. So right now, I want to help my fiends.
Nothing on wages (and self employment earnings), or household income generally, yet. Once they have moved on that (their politics will be to avoid it if at all possible)… then they’ll be catching up with the RoW. It’ll come… but they’ll have to be pushed…
And the rent thing… they are a party of landlords… that one will only come after they are pushed into it.
Oh and my local pub are doing takeouts so they’ll get a visit later too.
Yeah lots of cafes, restaurants and pubs are offering delivery for free which is brilliant.
Can I just say that in this whirlwind of chaos, speculation and General Ignorance, I'm finding Drac a welcome voice of pragmatic calm and sane reason.
If you want to run for government, you can have my vote!
If you want to run for government, you can have my vote!
Jesus, things have got really bad.
That was better. Still lots of gaps and questions, and the 'whatever it takes' message is a long way short of 'we will guarantee your incomes and protect your businesses'. Also what controls are there to ensure businesses spend the extra cash on protecting jobs rather than just pocketing it? Also massive gap in what they're going to do for renters.
You can’t blame Boris for your friends stupidity.
No, but you can blame him for not taking it into account. Force the pubs to close, they claim on insurance, and no-one goes to them. Win/win surely?
Tories are insane. And doing everything through their gritted teeth.
Money needed now.
Effing loans....money has been cheap to borrow for ages.
Absolute lump heads.
The whole deficit line needs completely re-writing because the Tories are bound by it. If they say it's like wartime they have to ramp up spending like wartime. And deal with it.
Deficits don't matter in the way you think they do. Government spending = a positive balance in the private sector.
Money is not finite - resources are.
Free ipads for everybody
Force the pubs to close, they claim on insurance, and no-one goes to them. Win/win surely?
Only if their insurance covers them. I know it doesn’t for at least one landlord friend.
Money is not finite
Errrr! Yes it is.
I only ask as I work for a bank and if it’s something folks think makes sense I’ll raise it with the bosses
Google Pay is at least up to £100 at Sainsbury's (inc fuel) and Waitrose - I'd expect other supermarkets to be the same.
Does not pushing buttons on a keypad make much difference when the next thing you do is take the carrier bag that the assistant has just handed you?
That said I use my phone to pay as much as possible.
Well, both schools closed for our kids now anyway.
take the carrier bag that the assistant has just handed you?
This is 2020. Use your own bags.
Does not pushing buttons on a keypad make much difference when the next thing you do is take the carrier bag that the assistant has just handed you?
You haven’t been shopping for quite some time have you?
And like that I won’t see my parents for 3 months. 😢
Further restrictions here in Denmark. No gatherings of over ten people and only grocery stores to remain open until end of March. Affected businesses will receive financial help. Taking a precautious appraoch.
we have 974 available respirators for 5.6 million people, how does that compare to UK?
BBC (R4 & BBC2) have just done the cheesy “do your patriotic duty” thing…
Pile,of crap...
My favourite pub in the South Downs is shut!
Yet the four pubs I pass on the way are open.
Seems illogical IMO.
And like that I won’t see my parents for 3 months. 😢
Oh no, sad to see that.
The spokeswoman from the CBI has just been saying how they need big, bold action from the government today to shore up the economy and try and prevent companies going down like dominoes
I do rather wonder - and worry - whether we're on the brink of something very very big here. Even if we assume that the threat of the virus has been massively overstated and it all comes to naught, the loss of trade is going to be massive to small businesses. It's not like we were in a particularly great place to start with and then there's, y'know, the B-word...
Over in the escape room group on Facebook places are offering discount vouchers, buy now play later, for any time in the next year just to keep some sort of cash flow. Suggestions have been made about shutting up shop for a few weeks, but there's resistance to this because then where does that leave the staff who aren't getting paid? Dominoes.
On the news just now, Laura Ashley's gone pop (mostly unrelated, they've been in bother for ages and this was probably just the final nail) and Carphone Warehouse are closing all of their hundreds of standalone stores.
I worry that the high street is going to look very different in 12 months time. About the only thing going to be left standing is Amazon collection points and pound shops.
3 month mortgage holiday for those effected.
(Nothing for renters
Can't say as I'm totally shocked. **** the poor, again.
Force the pubs to close, they claim on insurance, and no-one goes to them. Win/win surely?
Unsubstantiated as yet, but I read elsewhere on the Internet earlier today that it doesn't work like that - insurance policies have get-out clauses for things like pandemics?
Nothing on wages (and self employment earnings), or household income generally, yet. Once they have moved on that (their politics will be to avoid it if at all possible)… then they’ll be catching up with the RoW. It’ll come… but they’ll have to be pushed…
And the rent thing… they are a party of landlords… that one will only come after they are pushed into it.
This.
Basically they are having to ask their masters what is acceptable. That takes time.
It would be nice to have policy that is one day ahead of the man in the street rather than one day behind, but with so many vested interests to consider it won't happen.
At least the buggers are still moving whilst being dragged screaming.
"This is not the time for ideology"?
Cool, call off the massive stupid mistake that is the biggest manifestation of ideology over sense, then...
And yet my wife’s Yoga Class is still on and continuing to do so.
So we’re not allowed to go to the pub, but sweaty old women can gather in their groups.
Brilliant.
Well thought out pile of shite.
And yet my wife’s Yoga Class is still on and continuing to do so.
My wife’s yoga teacher has just called to say yoga’s shut for the foreseeable.
Nothing to do with the announcements today but..
Would people think it a good idea if contactless limits were temporarily raised to avoid folks having to use pin machines, which have always struck me as hygienic at best of times?
I only ask as I work for a bank and if it’s something folks think makes sense I’ll raise it with the bosses.
I'll be suggesting this at work tomorrow although I hope it is already under consideration. I work for a bank too
Anyone got any DIY hand sanitizer receipes? I've got acetone, methylated spirits and aloe Vera gel.. but no IPA.
Mrs H4MUF fat club cancelled for three weeks.
Mind-boggling. Once this is over, there will be no return to business as usual. The economic supernova caused by this is going to permanently change the economic and political system. I'm strongly coming to the view that we need a unity govt to manage all this. It may be some time before we vote in another election.
https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1239974279136993283?s=20
Unsubstantiated as yet, but I read elsewhere on the Internet earlier today that it doesn’t work like that – insurance policies have get-out clauses for things like pandemics?
Aha.
https://twitter.com/BritishInsurers/status/1239868047055257602
Anyone got any DIY hand sanitizer receipes? I’ve got acetone, methylated spirits and aloe Vera gel.. but no IPA.
Jesus, things have got really bad.
National emergency, if you hadn't noticed 🤣
As far as I know, they’re being told to come in even with symptoms. This sounds insane to me.
They're not, I know one in isolation now.
Well, my youngest has just got home from his last day in school for a good while… other kids were spitting at him in school today
Feral bastards.
testing of workers in other key industries is also proposed – power/utilities etc.
That's reassuring for me and means my old man should be covered as well (he works in the same station). Sooner the better, I don't think I can last another 10 days (and it's only been 24 hours).
Most shoppers don’t have Apple phones.
Usually the ones with limits are the ones with their own e-payment system, Tesco being one. I'm using my phone much more. I know your point was probably more to do with using a card than phone but thought I'd mention that anyway.
3 month mortgage holiday for those effected.
Good news for FIL who is a wedding photographer, already folk seem to be avoiding paying.
so basically everyone spouting off yesterday & today all over the internet about how the govt are useless because they MUST shut pubs etc so businesses can claim on their insurance are just more gasbags to add to the clueless/ignore list? Shitty situation regardless.Aha
Unsubstantiated as yet, but I read elsewhere on the Internet earlier today that it doesn’t work like that – insurance policies have get-out clauses for things like pandemics?
Indeed, most policies won't cover it.
The ABI statement read: 'Irrespective of whether or not the Government orders closure of a business, the vast majority of firms won't have purchased cover that will enable them to claim on their insurance to compensate for their business being closed by coronavirus.
Standard business interruption cover – the type the majority of businesses purchase – does not include forced closure by the authorities
'Standard business interruption cover – the type the majority of businesses purchase – does not include forced closure by the authorities as it is intended to respond to physical damage at the property which results in the business being unable to continue to trade.
'A small minority of typically larger firms might have purchased an extension to their cover for closure due to any infectious disease.
'In this instance an enforced closure could help them make the claim, but this will depend on the precise nature of the cover they have purchased so they should check with their insurer or broker to see if they are covered.'
so basically everyone spouting off yesterday & today about how the govt are useless
All they had to do yesterday was to say 'we'll be bringing forward measures tomorrow to protect businesses and incomes so that no business should need to shut down or lay off employees'. They didn't though, because they're following public opinion rather than leading it, and seeing what they can get away with. Hopefully they'll get better as this progresses. Much as I despise the tories and Johnson, I don't want them to fail because the results of that are unthinkable.
And yet my wife’s Yoga Class is still on and continuing to do so.
My Fat Dads exercise class, which is usually on right now, has been cancelled along with all the other classes she runs in the local hall, including Pilates and Yoga.
We've also cancelled all Beaver/Cub/Scout meetings until further notice and been told by the Scout Assoc to halt all face-to-face contact with the kids.
I suggest your wife's yoga teacher is an arse and/or is reliant on that class for income and is struggling by like the rest of us.
Anyone got any DIY hand sanitizer receipes? I’ve got acetone, methylated spirits and aloe Vera gel.. but no IPA
Mate of mine has a small gin company and he's already made some sanitizer for friends and family using his equipment. He can't sell it though as unless he has a medical licence he has to pay duty. Seems mad that the country is crying out for the stuff yet he can't sell it, unless he sells it at extortionate cost to cover his statutory costs.
Seems mad that the country is crying out for the stuff yet he can’t sell it,
Can he sell gin at a slight markup and give away the sanitiser as a 'free' gift?
Gin mings.
However, we've finished all the cider....
...now have a bottle of something clear and Polish and some Ginger Wine to see us through the next ten days.
What flavour is the sanitiser?
Can he sell gin at a slight markup and give away the sanitiser as a ‘free’ gift?
Or negotiate not to pay the duty so long as he puts some red dye in it?
Then we can have a lot of laughs about someone being caught literally red-handed.
I do rather wonder – and worry – whether we’re on the brink of something very very big here...
To me some of what's been offered so far is the ideological 'faster horse'. From the supposed Henry Ford quote - if I gave them what they wanted it would be a faster horse.
I was just listening live to the debate in Holyrood and NHS/Care workers (and those who might be subbed in for them) will very definitely be being tested. It’s important that those key staff don’t self-isolate unnecessarily
(IANAScot but)
Both me and my wife are currently self-isolating, as she has a cough. Swabbing & testing for her has been on, off, on and then back off again over the past 48hrs.
In theory she can go back end of this week; middle of next week for me
One test and the NHS could potentially have "gained" around 12 days of staff time but they're overwhelmed. We're WAH but not really very effectively and she in particular usually spends her days seeing patients
now have a bottle of something clear and Polish and some Ginger Wine
I'd start with the polish, then the ginger wine - after all, the something clear might turn out to be water and that's no use in a crisis
I think they'll probably get around to doing something for the renters- they'll have to. But we rang the agent who manages our flat last week and said that if our tenants couldn't pay because of coronavirus we were fine with that.
Anyone got any DIY hand sanitizer receipes? I’ve got acetone, methylated spirits and aloe Vera gel.. but no IPA.
NOT a substitute for soap and water:
https://moralfibres.co.uk/page/2/
https://wellnessmama.com/281/homemade-hand-sanitizer/
You should still be able to buy witch hazel from supermarkets and chemists, also rubbing alcohol. TheSoapKitchen.co.uk has a good selection of ingredients. If you're using essential oils then you'll need a glass spray bottle, Baldwins.co.uk have a huge selection.
wife has to work from home again tomorrow, more angry confused nursery parents.
And yet my wife’s Yoga Class is still on and continuing to do so.
My Fat Dads exercise class, which is usually on right now, has been cancelled along with all the other classes she runs in the local hall, including Pilates and Yoga.
Yeah I’m reading all the counter arguments.. and to some extent understand those individuals positions..
But this a class held in the local school hall, a school that’s open, a school that’s not to far from a few of you lot in R’ogate.
#random
#oddsocialexperiment
they’ll have to
You never know......
Enough 'have to' moments might convince a cross section of society that seeing other members of society purely as part of a P&L account is not such a crash hot idea and so might not be quite so obnoxious going forward.
More mind-boggling stuff on the economics.
Helicopter money (already being done in the US), suspension of all business taxation, mass nationalisations, rent-caps etc. Who would have thought that a virus could turn us into a communist state? Completely bonkers!
We’ve also cancelled all Beaver/Cub/Scout meetings until further notice and been told by the Scout Assoc to halt all face-to-face contact with the kids
All face to face contact of any kind has been halted. No AAC or District AGM next week
Town very quiet in France today. Lots of people genuinely scared of the whole situation.
Oh no, sad to see that.
It is but has to be done as he won’t survive it if catches it. My brother is also isolation for 12 weeks.
Oh no, sad to see that.
It is but has to be done as he won’t survive it if catches it. My brother is also isolation for 12 weeks.
It's just the brutality of it all, having to make the I'm not going to see people until it's over decisions.
Then there's the split responsibility situation - one sibling does cover the others isolate. If, just if something is brought in...
We can do what we can do
It’s just the brutality of it all, having to make the I’m not going to see people until it’s over decisions.
"I’m not going to see people until it’s over just in case, and hopefully they'll still be around afterwards." That's what's brutal. The people most at risk are both the ones you want to see the most and the ones you most shouldn't. How on Earth does one weigh up taking the opportunity to go see granny one last time and tell her you love her whilst you still can, against potentially being the one to finish her off if you do so?
Ugh. Ugh ugh ugh.
The people most at risk are both the ones you want to see the most and the ones you most shouldn’t.
Yep. BiL has terminal cancer and is very unlikely to see the summer. My wife (NHS care worker) still wants to see him but that is a risk in itself. Square that circle!
@ dazh,
We're a long way from communism but the thought did strike me today that the government can pretty much do whatever it wants when there is a direct threat to people's health and the media hype it up. No matter how bad coronavirus is for public health, climate change and antibiotic resistance (resulting from factory farming for cheap meat) are way worse. I guess it shows how we can react to sudden threats, but are happy to be boiled slowly, until it's too late.
The other thing worth nothing is how the vulnerabilities of our system will be brutally exposed now, especially wage insecurity, privatisation of key industries, etc. I really hope that people will wake up and start asking why we can have casually drop 40 billion on a ridiculously outdated nuclear weapon system, and a hundred billion on a train which gets you to london 30 minutes faster but drops you off at the wrong station etc. etc., but not an adequately funded and staffed health system, the importance of which will be increasingly brought into focus over the coming weeks and months.
I feel we've become incredibly complacent as a civilisation and now, suddenly, we're having an existential crisis at the same time as a physical one. The latter will result in immunity at some point, but I'm not sure about the former.
Square that circle!
I only wish I could.
I guess playing devil's advocate, if you've had 40+ years to tell someone how you feel then either they already know or that ship has kinda sailed.
re: previous replies - really sorry to hear that. Easy to theorize about the situation but brings it home when you read those sorts of comments. Best wishes.
That’s what’s brutal.
Yeah, sounds horrible.
And the rent thing… they are a party of landlords… that one will only come after they are pushed into it.
Surprised Rishi didn't promise "whatever it takes" on this.
Not a renter (or a landlord) but I sincerely hope that something concrete is announced and implemented asap for those who are in rented accommodation who are going to need help and need it quickly. Surely it's a win-win, tenants keep the security of their home and landlords secure their (taxable) income too.
I'm disappointed that the Gov scientists data seems to have been flawed and they are now backtracking. I hope we haven't lost too much time. But on one Brexit related point, let's be clear.
1/ We've got an opinion and this is what it means
2/ New data has come to light and we've re-evaluated
3/ We should change our decision and do something different.
vs
1/ We've got an opinion and this is what it means
2/ New data has come to light and we've re-evaluated
3/ We should change our decision and do something different.
4/ But, ideology, so **** you all.
Let's not tar Whitty and Vallance with the same brush as Farage and co.
Well, I'm going to have to have a bust up with my Dad (78) as it sounds like he is being stubborn and selfish and is going to bugger off to the golf club as normal this weekend.
My parents still live together (in name only) despite the fact that they loathe each other and have done for 25-30 years. They really should have got divorced on the umpteen occasions it 'came close'. Unfortunately they mistrust each other so much both are convinced they will have a number done on them by the other.
But in the current situation it is all going to have to come to a head. My mum has COPD (most likely as a result of my Dad's smoking which he, thankfully, seems to have escaped any ill effects of).
So my mum is all keyed up for self isolation as she wants to get through and to be able to see her grandkids again, but the old man could scupper it.
****'s sake.
How I ever turned out as even-tempered and generally happy go lucky as I am, I will never know (with obvious winks to the many people on here I have had bust ups with - not all of which I have been blameless in).
Was the data flawed/backtracking, or was it always a just a matter of timing and it changed as evidence emerged?
My 99 y/o gran passed away today in her care home. Small mercy that her time ended as intended, not in an overcrowded COVID ward.
I don’t think she’ll get a funeral. Hopefully a big service of commemoration when it’s all over as she was an amazing woman.
On a positive note, ive got back in touch with my parents in spain who id kind of fallen out with. Being the pig head dick that I am it was mostly me overreacting. They are high risk but can bunker down so should be relatively safe and its good to talk to them at last. They are pretty pragmatic about it all so I'm confident they will be ok. I've seen two sides to this, the good side of people (local community helping with high risk groups shopping etc) and sadly the bad side (stripping supermarket shelves and abusing staff), quite frankly id rather wipe shit of my arse bare handed than hoard toilet roll at the expense of others.
Was the data flawed/backtracking, or was it always a just a matter of timing and it changed as evidence emerged?
This is scary if true:
The latest evidence suggests that 30 per cent of patients admitted to hospital with Covid-19 will need critical care in an intensive care unit, he said. Previous estimates, based on experience with viral pneumonia, were too low.
From here: https://www.ft.com/content/249daf9a-67c3-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3
I read a cold war book written in 63, Die Wand by Marlen Haushofer, it's also been turned into a film. It was like that out today. We printed out our attestation then went off to water and exercise the horses. Driving along the main road there were a few cars and trucks but back into the urban area nothing, like dawn on a Summer Sunday at 05:00 but in mid afternoon.
So sorry, dantsw13. 🙁
dantsw - so sad to read your post; my thoughts are with you.
and Belgium is in full lock down from midday tomorrow. Stay in apart from food/pharmacy shopping or going to work if there is no way to home work. You can still go out and exercise (bike/walk) but not in groups and stay away from others. Supermarkets are putting lines in queues so you keep your distance from the next person and limiting the max in the store at any one time.
We've really ramped it up fast here from last Thursday when there was a sudden uptick in numbers. Won't know for a few more days if it's starting to take effect. I think I'm happier with this approach though. It feels like we are taking the fight to the virus