a few less pensioners would not be enough savings to undo the economic harm going on at the moment...
ref China, makes me wonder how much smoking has a role in determining the seriousness of cases.
The idea that we’d trade lives for a strong economy just leaves me speechless. What are we without basic human compassion?
Tories?
I'm wondering whether to order one of these?
https://www.banggood.com/DDT-1A-6L-Oxygen-Concentrator-Portable-Air-PurifIer-Generator-Medical-Machine-p-1256400.html
On the plus side, it will help breathing
On the down side, it will be delivered from China.
134 new cases since yesterday and 2 more deaths 🙁
I’m not understanding why others would be told to work from home but teachers shouldnt
You get enough time off plus who is going to look after the kids so everyone else working at home can ride their bikes?
I’d happily live in that pit town amongst a community doing everything they can to work with and protect each other.
The idea that we’d trade lives for a strong economy just leaves me speechless. What are we without basic human compassion?
then isolate those at risk.
Financial hardship shouldn't be underestimated either.
I'm trying to find something positive today, and I'm really struggling.
Hopefully the UK has been buying the necessary pharma and life persevering equipment on the quiet over the last few weeks, although due to spectacular levels of head in sand probably not
It’s a virus that causes viral pneumonia, that’s why it kills people because drugs can’t be used.
Then there’s equipment, well yes apparently if you have an intensive care bed you can put someone on a ventilator (which breaths for you) until the virus has run it’s course. Apparently though then you catch bacterial pneumonia and potentially die from that.
Well, Norway is currently shutting down.
All Schools, Nurseries, and Universities are closed until April.
I'm quite happy, tbh. But then this is a country that has a welfare system that can cope with these kind of economic shocks.
Wish I hadn't started reading this thread 🙁 I'm 73 next month with a Levo e-bike on order!
And no you can't have it - my son has already bagged first rights 🙂
Well The Who tour is being postponed so some action is being taken.
I’d happily live in that pit town amongst a community doing everything they can to work with and protect each other.
The idea that we’d trade lives for a strong economy just leaves me speechless. What are we without basic human compassion?
A) I'm guessing you haven't, (I'm fortunate I'm a generation behind but the effects were plain to see when I was a lad, they still are).
B) with a weak economy all those lives you so gallantry saved will be ended, very quickly, as you realise the mass unemployment you opted for just took 10 or more years off everyone's life expectancy.
It's not a choice between the FTSE and your father, it's a choice between your father and your kids.
If it helps you any, I'd trade a few more years of my dad's life for a few more for a strangers children. I'm not in favour of a strong economy because I'm heartless, quite the opposite. I can just see further than my own nose.
Biggest daily jump in official cases today, up to 590 from 456. It's increasing every day, because it's exponential. The true figures are probably 10 times that. It's ok though, there's football on and race meetings to go to. Stiff upper lip and all that. I despair for the doctors.
st colin
I’m trying to find something positive today, and I’m really struggling.
Don't read this ****ing thread, stay away from the news and dickheads on Twitter. What's wrong now? Nothing.
Jesus christ.
Well The Who tour is being postponed so some action is being taken
Good they should be coordinating the response, not going on a jolly 😉
It’s ok though, there’s football on and race meetings to go to. Stiff upper lip and all that.
I did think it was absolutely mental that while other European games were being played behind closed doors, a few thousand Atletico fans flew into Liverpool to last night join a packed Anfield, while having had a day or two mooching around the bars of Liverpool.
I see that after Lewis Hamilton saying it was mental that Australian GP was taking place, that the first members of the McClaren team have tested positive and they've pulled out
Surely its an absolute no-brainer that events like this, with tens of thousands of people travelling in from all over the shop, shouldn't be going ahead?
Policy appears to be following the 4 step plan
Trump sounds decidedly sniffly and unwell in his crazy address
I’d happily live in that pit town...
A) I’m guessing you haven’t, (I’m fortunate I’m a generation behind but the effects were plain to see when I was a lad, they still are).
Actually I still do. Lived here all my life. We once had one of the highest unemployment rates in the entire country.
I just don't agree. At all. You do what you can to save those in immediate danger - it's inhumane not too. Any problems after that, you deal with then. Other nations are already doing this, and I'm fairly certain, if anything, their economies will recover stronger than ever because they have actual foundations of a civilised society - something which seems to be rapidly slipping away from us.
. I’m not in favour of a strong economy because
For clarification strong economy vs a weak one.
Wife's hospital need some more standard surgical masks.
Was quoted as "expected June".
In good news, the training on the proper masks went well.
In more bad news, there was only one proper mask to train on. Good eh?
The library section for books about successful British government crisis response is, er, "tiny".
Surely its an absolute no-brainer that events like this, with tens of thousands of people travelling in from all over the shop, shouldn’t be going ahead?
What? But going to the football is important! Betting on the Gee Gees is important! Have you forgotten that we got through the war? And we won it! We're different, we're better. We don't need to do anything, it'll just pass us by because we're special. And if lots of people die then it's ok, they're old, and were already ill, they wouldn't have lasted long anyway. As long as we get to watch the bloody football that's all that matters.
I'm not an expert....
But I don't understand this. Flights from Milan are still landing in Edinburgh with absolutely no screening at all (Why are they landing at all.)
Only a third of those who are infected by the coronavirus demonstrate that by way of a spike in their temperature,” she said.*
“One difficulty with screening arrivals at airports is that people will be missed because they are not showing an increase in their temperature, which then gives false reassurance.
So you would still pick up 1/3 of infections. Isn't that worth doing? You can still tell everyone else that they may still be infectious & to take precautions.
Makes no sense to me.
* Scottish Health Minister
that public health england tracker is almost a day and a half out of date !
I think there is a deliberate 24hour delay in the reporting so the data can be confirmed.
Couple of things from the Guardian live feed:
"The majority of coronavirus infections may be spread by people who have recently caught the virus and have not yet begun to show symptoms, scientists have found.
An analysis of infections in Singapore and Tianjin in China revealed that two-thirds and three-quarters of people respectively appear to have caught it from others who were incubating the virus but still symptom-free.
The finding has dismayed infectious disease researchers as it means that isolating people once they start to feel ill will be far less effective at slowing the pandemic than had been hoped."
AND
Prof John Ashton, a former regional director of public health for north-west England, lambasted a lack of preparation and openness from the government and contrasted Britain’s response to that of Hong Kong.
“Right at the beginning of February, they [Hong Kong] adopted a total approach to this, which is what we should have done five weeks ago ourselves. They took a decision to work to three principles – of responding promptly, staying alert, working in an open and transparent manner,” he told the Guardian.
“Our lot haven’t been working openly and transparently. They’ve been doing it in a (non) smoke-filled room and just dribbling out stuff. The chief medical officer only appeared in public after about two weeks. Then they have had a succession of people bobbing up and disappearing. Public Health England’s been almost invisible.
“Boris Johnson should have convened Cobra himself over a month ago and had regular meetings with the chief medical officer with the evidence. The thing should have been fronted up nationally by one person who could be regarded as the trusted voice and who could have been interrogated regularly. That’s not happened.”
You do what you can to save those in immediate danger
Of course. No-one, out side of North Korea to my knowledge, is seriously advocating anything else. But (a) you can't save everyone* and (b) you do not do it at the cost of increased risk to everyone else.
*even if you could save everyone from covid19 those most likely to need saving are also very likely to die from something else instead in the short term.
These are not healthy 40 somethings or fit active teens, hell they're not even fit healthy 80 year olds. They're unfit, chronically ill 65+ year olds with a life expectancy without medical assistance of months at best when they're not dying of corona, a few years on average through the marvels of medical science. If you were faced with the very real choice of an extra year each for those most at risk in trade for 5 to 8 ish years off everybody else's? (8.4 being the difference in life expectancy between rich and poor in the UK in 2018 )
Daz you're trying to reduce a very complicated issue to a simple one where the solution is to lock everything down and...and...then what?
I don't particularly like our current government but they have a load of tough, tough choices to make here.
Stepping away from the rolling news amd predictions would be beneficial for lots of people. I'm tying to focus on the actionable things based on sound advice rather getting into a panic.
Its about taking sensible precautions. A mate is debating whether to see Orbital on Saturday with 1,000 others. He lives with his 70 yo Mum who has ongoing respiratory issues.
looks familiar
The idea that we’d trade lives for a strong economy just leaves me speechless. What are we without basic human compassion?
If you want to save lives you need money. If you want money, you need an economy. It's not just some nice-to-have thing that buys Jags for some people, it buys your food, heats your house, builds your house, saves your life, buys the food for the people who save your life. The way some people talk you'd think the government could just do everything for you if they could be bothered, and working is some kind of moral issue. It's not - your work is what makes the money that the government have to spend*. Without an economy, you have no job, and you still need food. If your job is farming then no-one has any food.
* unless you live in a communist state
another 134 new uk cases....
Still true in a communist state.
Daz you’re trying to reduce a very complicated issue to a simple one where the solution is to lock everything down and…and…then what?
Go back and read my posts. I'm not simplifying anything, I'm saying that the evidence of countries which are ahead of us shows that the rate of infection can be dramatically reduced by decisive and early action to enact mass testing/screening and quarantining and social distancing. We're not doing any of these, and instead are debating crackpot theories about herd immunity. The evidence also shows that if we do nothing or do it too late then the mortality rate will be much higher, and we'll inevitably have to impose much more drastic measures later.
Uk policy on this seems to be the same as brexit. Have our cake and eat it, ignore the naysayers and doom-mongers, and take solace from a misplaced sense of entitlement.
What he said.
When does the number of cases in the UK (590) overtake the number of posts in this thread (2017) ?
There are a shit load of kids close to taking SATS, GSCE’s and A levels who need their help?
And what sort of increased death rate amongst teachers, there families and pupils would be considered acceptable to offset this?
BaronVonP7
Member
I think there is a deliberate 24hour delay in the reporting so the data can be confirmed.
We've had our first confirmed case overnight that's not showing on the tracker so there is some delay
Uk policy on this seems to be the same as brexit. Have our cake and eat it, ignore the naysayers and doom-mongers, and take solace from a misplaced sense of entitlement.
Sounds like you're right!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/12/health-expert-brands-uks-coronavirus-response-pathetic
Just got an email through from Polaris promoting their 'Pandemic Sale'. 10 seconds after I'd clicked on their site, someone had wisely got rid of that particular bit of marketing genius...
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49651503928_712572ca62_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49651503928_712572ca62_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2iDwWhy ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/76951366@N02/ ]hutchinson2017[/url], on Flickr
Prof John Ashton, a former regional director of public health for north-west England, lambasted a lack of preparation and openness from the government and contrasted Britain’s response to that of Hong Kong.
I have several problems with the Ashton remarks. First, he says the politicians are like "19th century (something) playing a five-day game of cricket", as if that's a bad thing! Test cricket is the greatest form of cricket and therefore, of sport!
Second, he says, seemingly with a straight face, that Hong Kong's response is the model to which we should aspire; not entirely referencing the large People's Army sitting just on the mainland implicitly enforcing the decrees of the autocratic and unelected government. It seems he could have picked a better example... but realised that using China in his argument would be a bit beyond the pale.
Still, valid points, just terribly made.
Has Boris still got those water canons?
On the broader point, it seems increasingly clear that a large proportion of us are going to get coronavirus. At this point the only real way to prevent it would be to confine people to their homes; the virus is being transmitted by people who currently are showing no or limited symptoms, and who may never be confirmed as having it (because they're not being tested).
Mass confinement would of course have its own problems, not least including food - who's delivering Tesco.com, or stacking supermarket shelves? So it probably isn't very viable.
Sooo... most of us will get it. Most of us will recover; many of us won't be too debilitated. Some people will die, including people we know.
Flattening the curve is a possibility, but again it requires a fairly extensive form of confining people to their homes, with problems as above. Italy's attempt to close all shops, restaurants and bars isn't really resolving that issue - how are people eating?!
So what's the plan?
