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scuttler
There was suggestion a few months back of reduced transmission in kids.
I'm confident it's true (common sense says someone asymptomatic isn't coughing all over someone else)... as above though that's not what people are hearing.
As plans go natural immunity is a rather flawed one
christ, natural immunity isn’t a plan! it’s just an interesting side discussion!
pick any one. If the Black Death comes ripping through your village your survival strategy is going to be either 1. Don’t get it, 2 hope you’re immune.
if you'd written
2. hope your immune system successfully fought it off
then I'd agree.
perhaps a subtle difference? but (to me at any rate) "you're immune" would likely imply not even getting the thing in the first place...
Yeah, the innate immune system kicking in and fighting a disease off isn't the same as being immune......in fact having a stronger innate immune system can in technical terms kill you to death when you get certain infections.
I guess you could sort of have people who aren't or are more susceptible to Covid because of an ACE2 mutation/polymorphism, I'm not what research has been done on that. Still isn't being "immune" to the disease though.
If the Black Death comes ripping through your village your survival strategy is going to be either 1. Don’t get it, 2 hope you’re immune.
how else do you think people survived?
LOLs and ROFLCOPTERS all round.
I wonder why people are even engaging with such an ignorant troll?
I forget this place is the home to pedants...yes having innate immunity to fight off the disease and “being immune” are essentially the same thing.
I guess the public think that not being susceptible to a disease, whether by not getting it or getting it at asymptotic levels - means to them that they're immune. Genetic, environmental, the innate immune system - none of these things are acquired immunity.
I forget this place is the home to pedants…yes having innate immunity to fight off the disease and “being immune” are essentially the same thing.
Hnngggggggg
Or not having it for certain disease. I've read a few papers that show a strong innate immune system is partly involved in absolutely ****ing certain covid patients.
They aren't the same thing.
How do we test for immunity/immune response so we know who should be vaccinated?
Yes there can be an over inflammatory repose in men who’re both Obese and Diabetic. That doesn’t mean that theres not another group of people who will get the disease, fight it off, and get better (have immunity that’s either innate or acquired)
having innate immunity to fight off the disease and “being immune” are essentially the same thing
except they're not, are they?
immune, no virus gets a hold in you, you don't spread it, R=0.
immune system does its thing after you get it but before you die, you spread it, R=biglyness
Also why do you think Africa has done so well in containing infection. It isn’t due to natural immunity, it is primarily (I suspect) due to the fact that Africa as a whole is sadly very used to isolation and dealing with new zoonoses. So they know how to act as a culture to minimise risk
Not in the cites eg Lagos Nigeria, the poor pack 20 or more into tiny vans every morning and night to undertake their very long commutes in/out of the city.
On the plus side, it's so hot and over stuffed that all doors / windows will the open all the time, but still it's a very dense city (unless you're rich).
mrmonkfinger has simplified it nicely ... you being immunised so as never to acquire and spread the virus is a hell of a lot more useful for society as a whole than you passing the virus on to other people before developing immunity naturally ... if that ends up the choice before us
On the Africa thing. - fair enough,iI guess it is similar to yellow fever and India then. They have to hope like hell it doesn't get into the country
scotroutes
How do we test for immunity/immune response so we know who should be vaccinated?
Why would 'we' do that?
For whatever reasons we already have people with immunity but we are not testing (or at least making the results public).
Do you really think Boris hasn't had a test to see if his antibodies are still viable?
I'm guessing this was #1 on the list... then self isolate and hide results regardless.
TBH love to be a fly on the wall for that....
"You are going to have to self isolate Boris"
"But I've had it"
"Yes but those are the rules"
"but can I catch it again"
"not according to your test results..."
"then its a F'ing stupid rule... "
"yes"
"who the hell made this rule"
"you did"
Which one of the vaccines is delivered by a sugar cube?
asking for a needle phobic friend....
“then its a F’ing stupid rule… ”
Why would Johnson having yet another excuse to hide away result in him being annoyed?
Why would Johnson having yet another excuse to hide away result in him being annoyed?
In the warm as well.... last time he had to hide in a freezer.
From the Guardian Live Feed:
Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine has up to 90% efficacy
The Guardian’s Sarah Boseley and Ian Sample report:
In case you missed it this morning: The Covid vaccine developed in the UK by Oxford University and AstraZeneca can protect 70.4% of people from becoming ill and – in a surprise result – up to 90% if a lower first dose is used, results from the final trial show.
The Oxford vaccine is the third to produce efficacy results, following Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna whose vaccines were made with a different technology. Both of those reported almost 95% efficacy and Pfizer has applied for a licence in the US and UK.
While the Oxford results may not immediately look so good, the scientists say they are not comparable, because they have included people who become mildly ill as well as seriously ill, unlike the other two. Their vaccine has some big advantages, because it is fridge-stable so easily transported and used anywhere in the world. It is also substantially cheaper, at about £3 a dose instead of more than £20 for the others.
The UK has pre-ordered 100m doses of the Oxford vaccine, which is central to its pandemic vaccination plans. Production has already begun and 4m doses have been supplied so far, which cannot be used until the vaccine is licensed.
Importantly, Oxford/AstraZeneca have already shown that the vaccine works as well in older people as in younger groups and is safe. There are early indications it might also help stop transmission of the disease.
>immune system does its thing after you get it but before you die, you spread it, R=biglyness
in our Black Death example where folk live in a world where medical care doesn’t exist, your survival is going to be based on one of two things happening, 1. You don’t get it at all ( not infected because you don’t come into contact with anyone with the disease) or 2 you get it, but are immune.( either acquired or adaptive) If you die, you aren’t immune and you’re just another victim/spreader
scotroutes
How do we test for immunity/immune response so we know who should be vaccinated?
Why would ‘we’ do that?
I dunno mate. It was nickc who suggested that we wouldn't have to vaccinate 30-50% of the population.
where folk live in a world where medical care doesn’t exist
Good job that this is 21st Century Europe.
nickc
Full Memberin our Black Death example where folk live in a world where medical care doesn’t exist, your survival is going to be based on one of two things happening, 1. You don’t get it at all ( not infected because you don’t come into contact with anyone with the disease) or 2 you get it, but are immune.( either acquired or adaptive) If you die, you aren’t immune and you’re just another victim/spreader
Erm, 3, get it and survive doesn't imply or require immunity.
Can anyone point me in the direction of any reliable sources which show the typical time lag between exposure > symptoms > hospital admission > and sadly death?
All I can find is a graphic from the Daily Fail :$
Thanks
your survival is going to be based on one of two things happening, 1. You don’t get it at all ( not infected because you don’t come into contact with anyone with the disease) or 2 you get it, but are immune.( either acquired or adaptive) If you die, you aren’t immune and you’re just another victim/spreader
if you are superhumanly immune like superman on a day where he is feeling especially super, thanks for asking, it does not get a hold in you, you don't spread it, result, no other people die from your breathing / coughing / spaffing.
if that happens to lots of other people, this makes (1) far more likely for you
. It was nickc who suggested that we wouldn’t have to vaccinate 30-50% of the population.
I suggested nothing if the sort, thanks
New England rules from Dec 2nd seems to be everyone back to the tier system, but what tier you are in, and what that means has changed. Confusing enough.
But do these rules still apply for the 5 day Xmas period or is it a holiday free for all?
if you are superhumanly immune like superman
or just lucky to have a group of 4 or so genes on chromosome 4 ( or 9, can’t remember)
Confusing enough.
Perhaps we should just wait for Thursday’s announcement. Trailing this stuff early and incomplete to the media just sows seeds of confusion and cynicism.
Ignore my Thursday comment… hadn’t realised half the stuff already confirmed early officially today. Not clear, is it. Will it be clearer by next week…?
Whats confusing?
Tier 1 areas, people will be urged to work from home wherever possible.
In Tier 2 areas, pubs and bars must close unless they are serving substantial meals along with alcoholic drinks.
In Tier 3 areas all pubs, bars and restaurants must close except for delivery, takeaway and drive-through. Hotels and indoor entertainment venues must also close in these areas.
The definition of substantial I guess...
I dunno mate. It was nickc who suggested that we wouldn’t have to vaccinate 30-50% of the population.
It seems we already have some percentage we don't need to vaccinate (yet) but Boris and chums don't care about that. It will be interesting if Boris changes his tune when he works out he's most likely one of them?
Household mixing Kryton… both early December and for Xmas… I have no idea what’s coming for us based on that at all.
7pm announcement due now. Perhaps it’ll be clear then.
Whats confusing?
What each tier means has changed, and what tier your region is in may change compared to pre-lockdown.
And thats before we get to Christmas exemptions
So… current measures to end a day earlier than previously announced. Hunting for more information… I’m sure that’s a necessary change… not just a confusing one… 🤷🏻♂️
So… current measures to end a day earlier than previously announced.
Depends on your interpretation of "lockdown ends on X". Is that the last day of restrictions or the first day of freedom new, less onerous restrictions
No, the legislation said midnight Tuesday night… it’s been brought forward a day… which will confuse no companies’ plans for next week… honest.
I suggested nothing if the sort, thanks
🤔 You certainly implied that 30-50% we're immune and as such there was no need for them to take the vaccine. Backtrack all you want, but it's there in writing 2 pages back!
Ref the AZ vaccine, can anyone explain why a 1/2 dose followed by a full dose is more effective than 2 spaced full doses? Seems counterintuitive.
Household mixing Kryton
Ah indeed, could be clear in 20 minutes or so.
You certainly implied
scotroutes suggestion was either we vaccinate or tell people that they have to self isolate for ever (as a joke presumably) I thought that was harsh treatment for the folk who're immune (as a joke). No backtracking needed.
As always; folk on this forum need either to drink less coffee, or take themselves less seriously.
Geez, think I'll just stay in, Christmas as well, family live many miles away and it would feel wrong to travel even if technically we are allowed for a few days.
All clear as mud as usual. Suspect many more areas will be in tier 3 next week. Levels are still high in the North West despite lockdown / tier 3 for months.
Can't actually see what they've tightened up, has it been announced yet?
'squeeze the disease' is this week's mantra.