Forum menu
Cheers. That is a massive amount. Let's hope the lower doses work then.
I agree that if we are allowed to travel next year, we shouldn't. And certainly not without enforced quarantine. Stupid to bring it back in when we were getting on top of it this year. If people are so ****ing desperate for a fortnight in the sun next year as "their right" they can spend a fortnight in a quarantine facility when they get back as "their responsibility"
LittleMissMC should have travelled to Iceland this summer with her gymnastics squad for Eurogym. It was put back to summer 2021. Last week Iceland said 'no", so it's now cancelled.
1
I’m still utterly baffled by people who went abroad this summer (including close friends and relatives)… and I fully predict that even more people will do so next summer.
From the moment that restrictions started to be eased, Ryanair and Easyjet were pinging offers through to my phone via the app every couple of days. Booking.com were sending emails every 2-3 days with offers.
At one point, looking at flights, I could have had a long weekend in Prague for £15 return flight. Oslo was £5 one way, Barcelona was £10. They were desperate to get people back on board.
And faced with the fact that most people had had their Easter break cancelled, summer break put back / looking uncertain, people were furloughed and bored, it's not really any wonder that a lot of people jumped at the chance.
Only 2 weeks ago, when the Canaries were removed from the list of countries that you had to quarantine on return, the offers came pinging through again - book your winter getaway now!
Can't really blame the airlines for trying to get back to business. This is the sort of thing that should have been sorted during the first lockdown and put in place as restrictions eased. Testing at all airports for all flights. Mandatory enforced quarantine on return if necessary. And as usual, the Government squandered the whole lot.
Crikey - Really wish you all the best. What a star you are.
We've decided not to ski this coming season, however I think prices will be very low, meaning many people will just take a winter holiday regardless of the fact that skiing really will spread this virus very quickly.
Ski resorts have always been breeding grounds for any lurgy flying around.
Eradication is not on any agenda. This is here for the long term. It is the fifth endemic coronavirus. People will go on skiing holidays again next year too…
It seemed plausible as described. Maybe not ridding the nation of it but bringing it to the point of having to deal with flare ups. There was very much an emphasis on the relative success of the asian approach. If it is a case of no overseas travel and being able to hold things under control with effective track and trace - that would be worth doing?
Although it does seem that ship might have sailed in the current round of restrictions.
Antibody yields are in the tonne amounts! Say 3g per person per year – 15% of 66M vulnerable – 30 tonnes. Of protein! Vaccines had better do something – we need those human bioreactors.
I agree that if we are allowed to travel next year, we shouldn’t. And certainly not without enforced quarantine
I think there are a few ways to look at this. If people don't travel a whole lot of people will be left unemployed which isn't good. You can only control yourself (and maybe any potential family members) so go on holiday stay safe and isolate on your return. Chances are you could go on holiday somewhere with a lower Covid rate than here which is what my partner did this year. Also with a decent track, trace and testing system set up people should be able to live a "normal" life.
I feel like now we are getting back into lockdown judging others actions is already starting again.
I was amazed the forum Covid police weren't all over this last week, but maybe exceptions are made for foreign cycling holidays, as opposed to people driving half an hour to ride their bike somewhere it's a bit quieter.
There was very much an emphasis on the relative success of the asian approach. If it is a case of no overseas travel and being able to hold things under control with effective track and trace – that would be worth doing?
Keep it down to manageable levels, just like influenza. Since the controls for the first help the second.
I try hard not to judge others - even on lockdownsceptics. You have to see all sides to an argument. Even though some of the arguments are jus plain nuts - "Great Reset", "5G", "Virus never been isolated"...(I ignore those). There was one point on paying MPs 20% less due to furlough. Then I thought, well if we're all in it together, why not just add 20% onto PAYE for a month? Unpopular but universal suffering. I'd pay it btw.
There was outrage in my village over the weekend as some decided to have 'one final send off', so a couple of big house parties all on it.
They think that the government are out to get them and stop them having fun. On Nextdoor the comments the following day were up there with Mumsnet!! Some parents are saying that they did it for the kids 'mental health', but we all really know they did it because they just wanted to get pissed with their mates!
I'm all for independent thought, but being reckless like that is exactly why we're in this positin...the amount of people ive seen on Instagram having parties, mixing in busy bars it astounds me as too how selfish and thoughtless people are.
You can only control yourself (and maybe any potential family members) so go on holiday stay safe and isolate on your return
I hadn't meant to sound quite so preachy. You make some good points. The problem is, people weren't doing the responsible thing and isolating on their return, and there was nothing approaching a halfway decent track, trace and isolate measures in force. The thing I could control was just not risking it.
If we had got on top of the virus in the UK, we might not now need a full lockdown and the government may have only had to pay to mothball the travel industry for 12 months rather than most of the economy for 12 months. As TiRed says, there is no good option.
Obviously, the morons in government chose to do none of the effective options.
Brexit will have put paid to any quick cheap easy European getaways anyway.
Plan was 3 weeks touring round with the bike around July/August and meet up with other riding mates for a week in the PDS area then a trip to the Belgian GP in September, started making plans 2 years ago. The way things are going I doubt even 2022 will be viable!
Well if the attitudes of the few on here are reflected in the general public, then you won’t be able to travel abroad at all.
There will be no Airlines left to fly you !!!
Unpopular but universal suffering. I’d pay it btw
The easiest and fairest way is to print money rather than tax. It's inflationary but arguably the fairest. However, print too much and it'll be rapidly withdrawn from the economy rather than propping up a faltering cirular flow of income. Printing more than can be spent by the recipients on goods and services is counter productive.
Yup, but then there's been a decent chunk of this year where borrowing was actually cheaper than taxing people (even disregarding the impact on the economy, ie people spending instead of being taxed, it was outright cheaper, purely for admin reasons). And with inflation so low, it's daft not to print money. I mean, fiscally indefensible and financially incompetent.
This was on the local news this evening:
https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/university/colleges/mds/news/2020/11/covid-moss-cellular-immunity.aspx
Well if the attitudes of the few on here are reflected in the general public, then you won’t be able to travel abroad at all.
There will be no Airlines left to fly you !!!
My sister-in-law works for Tui and its looking very bad for them right now!
Does anyone have a link to the preprint of the tcell paper?
They say that tcell response protects from waning antibody response, but interesting to see the levels
Possibly daft question before I call my doc for advice...
I read somewhere that folks on low dose steroid treatments have lower immune systems. Would that include Beclometasone which I use for asthma (the brown inhaler) ?
I think it makes a minor difference to my symptoms, but not enough that I'll continue to take it if it weakens the immune system.
Nhs says folks that take low dose steroids are at moderate risk here.. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/whos-at-higher-risk-from-coronavirus/
Anyone watching ITV news at the moment, in a hospital in Blackburn.
Terrifying.
I read somewhere that folks on low dose steroid treatments have lower immune systems. Would that include Beclometasone which I use for asthma (the brown inhaler) ?
I think it makes a minor difference to my symptoms, but not enough that I’ll continue to take it if it weakens the immune system.
Nhs says folks that take low dose steroids are at moderate risk here.. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/whos-at-higher-risk-from-coronavirus//blockquote >
Inhaled corticosteroids don't tend to weaken the immune system - taking oral steroids such as prednisolone frequently is more of a potential problem.
Asthma - or at least, more severe, poorly controlled asthma - is considered a risk factor for poor outcome from Covid. That's as much to do with having a compromised respiratory system as the drugs you might be taking.
But you needed to be on a big dose of corticosteroids/COPD meds or have received three courses of oral steroids in the past year to be considered extremely vulnerable. I got the 'extremely vulnerable' classification because of my drug cocktail, even though my asthma is relatively well controlled. My GP now reckons I am only at 'moderate' risk.
The outcomes for moderate asthmatics generally aren't too bad compared with non-asthmatics of similar age.
TL;DR If you are considering discontinuing your inhaled corticosteroid, don't without talking to your GP. It's unlikely to be suppressing your immune system, and uncontrolled asthma is likely to be worse in terms of outcome.
Cheers for info MH, I'll ask the doc. Asthma is considered moderate risk on its own so I was thinking it's a bit of a catch 22. I'm defo classed as mild to moderate in the asthma stakes. It's enough to notice, but not enough to cause me issues unless I'm on the bike, in which case I use to just use the blue inhaler.
Who fancies being at Wetherspoons at kicking out time on Wednesday after the 99p pints are finished and we go into lockdown?
Poopscoop
Full MemberAnyone watching ITV news at the moment, in a hospital in Blackburn.
Terrifying.
One of the docs that was looking after my mum mentioned that they're under more stress than they expected this time round, because while they have less patients at that hospital than in the first wave, they have some better treatments, meaning that less of them are dying. But about the same number are remaining very ill, and it takes longer for someone to recover and be discharged than it did for them to just die, so they've had to expand the ward capacity.
I've often said that the worst thing the NHS can do for its own interests is save a life, but, this is a bit too pointed.
Seems to me that 'spoons are being pragmatic by turning beer stocks into cash; if I had a pub I would do the same.
It's either that or pour it away.
There will be plenty of other pubs doing the same from opening time Tuesday through until 10pm Wednesday.
So long as landlords comply with covid regs and ensure their punters do the same on the premises I don't see a problem; once punters leave the premises they're of no concern to the licencee and their behaviour becomes someone else's problem - that's how it's always been.
So long as landlords comply with covid regs and ensure their punters do the same on the premises I don’t see a problem
So you've not been past a spoons recently then!??
I think most pubs are probably fine as you say, but certainly I reckon the chances of being infected in my town centre spoons is far higher than most other places..
That said, last time I was in there last year you could have probably picked up something far nastier than covid ...place was grim..
There are 2 in Lincoln; drive past one regularly and the other is next to the uni campus so aimed at a very specific demographic - which I'm not part of.
If they say their pubs are covid secure and no-one complains and they don't receive a public health visit/inspection I would say that's the end of it.
I'm not saying their standards or punters' behaviour are acceptable but without a complaint or evidence to the contrary we should probably suspend belief and assume they are.
Asthma – or at least, more severe, poorly controlled asthma – is considered a risk factor for poor outcome from Covid. That’s as much to do with having a compromised respiratory system as the drugs you might be taking.
It’s a bit of a surprise, but one of the effects of COVID19 is lymphopenia which depletes white blood cells. This may actually be protective against severe Covid. One of my sonsuktant colleagues treating severe asthma patients said their symptoms tended to improve slightly. My hands got better (psoriasis) for the same reason and have done a couple more times since infection when the rest of me went south.
Inhaled steroids have a small increased risk of bacterial pneumonia due to local lung immunosuppressive effects. This effect is noted in COPD trials. They have no systemic effects as exposures are extremely low unless you are taking some hiv drugs (ritonavir) when they don’t.
So long as landlords comply with covid regs and ensure their punters do the same on the premises I don’t see a problem
Maybe Wetherspoons are different where you live or I'm just having a bad day, but I would genuinely fear violence from a combo of the owner's loudly stated views, the clientele, start of new #scamdemic lockdown, even cheaper booze.
Liverpool to pilot city-wide Covid-19 testing
Interesting one - will the false positives outweigh the benefit of identifying more people?
Village pubs around us are doing £2 a pint to clear stocks, why wouldn't they?
Maybe Wetherspoons are different where you live or I’m just having a bad day, but I would genuinely fear violence from a combo of the owner’s loudly stated views, the clientele, start of new #scamdemic lockdown, even cheaper booze.
My nearest 'Spoons is on the main drag in our former mining/iron, blue collar, heartland of the BNP rundown town. It has the stereotypical clientele. I have no worries about violence from there, though I suspect social distancing is tricky.
The more "aspirational" pubs and "wine bars" around it though, now those I avoid!
Village pubs around us are doing £2 a pint to clear stocks, why wouldn’t they?
Cos it encourages excess drinking and hence irresponsible behaviour. Sooner people stop behaving like children sooner we’ll get out of this mess.
Interesting one – will the false positives outweigh the benefit of identifying more people?
The pont is that it would capture a very large proportion of infected people and a small proportion of uninfected (even if the absolute numbers of both could be material eg 99% of 5% infected and 1% of 95% false +be (made up numbers) So if the intent is to stop the spread by making sure you capture the majority of the infected then it is a sensible measure even if number was inflated by false +ve and reduced by false -ve
But as an aside, does anyone know what the false -ve and false -ve rates are?
Thinking about it - how do we know there are false positives or can asses the false positive rate if the disease is asymptomatic in a significant proportion of the population.
Even if you took two tests and one was +ve and one was -ve you would not know which test was wrong.
Also no way of knowing whether the test is inaccurate in the real world due to an issue with the test, user error or just a borderline level of pathogen.
No point doing mass testing ‘till we are prepared to fund people isolating. If you are young, feel fit & healthy, but living pay day to pay day, you will try and avoid self isolating to avoid being broke.
If you are young, feel fit & healthy, but living pay day to pay day, you will try and avoid self isolating
Mainly by not getting tested. Even with my families comfortable salaried life it was quite a decision to go for testing and start isolating. If we relied on going to work to pay the rent and bills and food I expect we might have not done it.
No point doing mass testing ‘till we are prepared to fund people isolating. If you are young, feel fit & healthy, but living pay day to pay day, you will try and avoid self isolating to avoid being broke.
A point that experts/advisors have been making a lot in interviews the last couple of days. Seems to be a view that those not isolating are a big factor in transmission, though one of the interviews I heard did found like she was trying to deflect blame from track and trace itself.
Some very interesting points in this interview and I'd be interested in the opinion of our resident experts. I'm no expert but I am a scientist at heart and learned to consider things critically and with evidence whilst at University and I still feel that we have jumped the gun with this lockdown.
For me the most salient points are around testing sensitivity and how we run our NHS to capacity in normal winters. I know we used to hear about the NHS being overloaded every winter in normal years but of course the Tories can't admit that is the real problem and deal with that proactively.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=W0vL0281s5c
Youngest daughter reported weatherspoons in local town was worse than new years eve after lockdown#1, covid secure my arse. These few days of crazy shopping & socialising will just cause another spike in cases that any fool (looking at you Johnson) could have predicted.
Track & trace only works with relatively low infection rates & high levels of and if necessary enforced, compliance.
and how we run our NHS to capacity in normal winters. I know we used to hear about the NHS being overloaded every winter in normal years but of course the Tories can’t admit that is the real problem and deal with that proactively.
We have something like half the hospital beds per head of population compared to France, and only a third of Germany's number?
Underfunding public services for the last 11 years has left us in no fit state to cope with a bad flu year, let alone Covid. The fundamental duty of a government should be to protect the population and it's failed completely and consistently. Lockdown is required precisely for that reason (amongst others)
how we run our NHS to capacity in normal winters
Sadly, we can’t fix that this winter though. Let’s hope people remember this the other side of this pandemic.
That guy has been doing a weird combination of talking against all interventions when they come in… but then claiming afterwards that because of those interventions working to a certain extent (despite him saying they shouldn’t be introduced before they were) we shouldn’t bring in any new interventions. Cake and eat it. He’s been one of the “I want to count the dead before we act to prevent deaths” people all through this. It may well be scientifically sound to wait for more data, more evidence… but by then you have a much bigger problem to deal with.
The fundamental duty of a government should be to protect the population and it’s failed completely and consistently.
+1 a global pandemic has been on the cards for some good few years now, yet we seem to have no plan for stockpile of ppe or even procurement of it and don't try and run the NHS on a just in time supermarket model 😡
The words from the Welsh first minister were thought provoking. Something along the lines of: Don't ask what you 'can do', ask what you 'should do'.
Interestingly a close relative who lives in Switzerland (where their case numbers have been extremely low), says that since opening borders during the summer, numbers have risen to high levels.
My relative has enjoyed an almost normal life. Only now are they having to change their lifestyle.
Switzerland has a tiny population and a very good (expensive) health system, but even that will be put under strain soon.
No matter how well staffed and equipped hospitals are… it doesn’t stop people catching a novel virus in huge numbers, at huge cost to many of them and to society… public health measures do. And at this stage, that means social distancing to stop the spread of the virus while we develop other tools.
The words from the Welsh first minister were thought provoking. Something along the lines of: Don’t ask what you ‘can do’, ask what you ‘should do’.
You mean like "individuals step up and take responsibility"? It'll never catch on.