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You can always tell the alpha males because they don't like having their faces tickled by a bit of cloth.
Can I ask another thing.
When my daughter does the door on her supermarket shift and challenges the non-mask wearers they generally fit in 3 categories, which are you?
- ignore and hurry past not making eye contact / pretending not to hear
- pretend you have some sort of exemption
- actually give a 16 year old abuse for trying to do their job as per the current law
or another?
Is there a full moon tonight?
I ask because there appears to be two loons posting tonight; here's looking at you hairvent and flanagan or whatever your forum names are.
Cretins.
Let us know if your views change when you or someone close to you is hospitalised with their lungs filling up with fluid which their body cannot clear.
Drowning in your own fluid; enjoy the experience.
Mental note to self : add flanagaj to “utter dick” list.
Can’t wait to look back on this scam in years to come
#plandemic
🙄
We nominally have masks and social distancing now...
We do? How do you define ‘nominally’?
Yesterday:
This is what a lockdown wasteland looks like to those obsessed with nocturnal enuresis.
especially if I go back to public transport.
No brainer in London - the tube is minging at the best of times.
but don’t be surprised if you get funny looks
What makes you think I’ll give a F what you think?
Keep hiding behind your masks by all means, but don’t be surprised if you get funny looks or people avoid you as they assume you must be sick. Alternatively just give yourselves all a group hug and you might all feel better about wetting the bed.
It's a mystery to me why you continue to be so grumpy with a bunch of people you don't know on the internet when it looks like you're getting exactly what you want?
This is how London looked last weekend:
But if they’re double-vaccinated and it’s (obviously) outdoors then maybe the absence of masks and distancing still means we won’t see any considerable increase in new infections in the wider population?
This is how London looked last weekend:
And thats why cases are going up again. The vast majority of current cases are in younger people (under 30). In that video I saw mostly what looked like under 30's. They're also very stupid for their behaviour and lack of distancing. Yes it's very busy but if you can't spread out, don't stand there. In the first few seconds there were 2 guys that appear to be shouting at each other and only about 50cm appart. Again, They're stupid people. Probably anti vaxers too. But then you can't teach stupid.
Just popped in for some more informed opinions and info as I occasionally do.
As always, thanks guys. This thread is still my go to resource amongst the chatter.
That thanks has two notable exceptions mind you but can't be bothered to even remember their user names.
Anyway, I'll be wearing masks in shops etc whatever Boris says. I really don't see what all the fuss is about, such a tiny modification to everyday life. Meh.
Somafunk… Flanagaj is clearly a hard hard man, I’d be very wary of calling him names if I was you..if my mate was as hard as him then maybe he wouldn’t be on his way to hospital right now with covid….
🤔🤔
How some of you will cope when the mask mandate and social distancing ends
I'll cope just fine. I'll keep doing what I think is sensible to keep me and my loved ones safe.
Tpbiker : Somafunk… Flanagaj is clearly a hard hard man
Yep, flanalgag is undoubtedly a hard man, evidenced by his reference to “muzzling”, Poor wee soul being so repressed.
The great irony is he probably wears a muzzle every night in his role of village gimp..
Strewth - where did all these great, big, hairy, alpha males come from?
Could do with a few of you over here in Oz, where the local population (famous for being bed wetting, sofa cowering doormats) are gladly going into another week of restrictions in an effort to try to stop the most vulnerable from expiring.
Personally, I find wearing a thin paper mask so intolerable, that I would rather that people actually die so I don't have to..... and I believe that makes me a better person that the rest of you hand wringing liberals.
Not aimed at you batfink as I get what you are saying even at this early hour, over here anyway.
Interesting little read this but I suspect many won't be surprised by it.
Refusing To Wear Face Masks is Masking a Deeper Fear
From the above link, ring any bells?
One of the terms bandied about lately is “toxic masculinity.” The basic idea is obvious—that some men are so fixated on demonstrating how “manly” they are that they harm themselves and others in the process.
And...
These three fears drive all displays of toxic masculinity: fear of appearing afraid, fear that someone knows more than you, and fear that you are submissive to others. The common denominator is the fear of appearing weak.
I think many/most will look back at the pandemic and think they did the best they could, by themselves and others during a bloody horrible time. It was s*** but they put their shoulder to it and pushed on.
Some... Well, they won't look back will they? They never do.
They lack the empathy and cognitive ability to self assess and learn from previous behaviours, both good and bad.
Moan over. 😉
One of the terms bandied about lately is “toxic masculinity.” The basic idea is obvious—that some men are so fixated on demonstrating how “manly” they are that they harm themselves and others in the process.
Oh I 100% agree. It kind of reminds me of blokes that take pride in the fact that they don't know how to cook/clean/work the washing machine - thinking that not being able to look after themselves is somehow a masculine trait to be celebrated, whereas the opposite is true. Similarly here, believing that wearing a mask is somehow an indicator of weakness or non-manliness.
At the very least, we can say that the pandemic has been incredibly interesting - nothing like a crisis to see people's true colours. Whether that a politician who demonstrates themselves fundamentally unsuitable for leadership, or a friend/acquaintance posting conspiracy BS on facebook.
My opinion is that, for most people arguing against masks/restrictions, that what you are seeing is just simple stupidity. Not: "doing something stupid" - but: "I am a deeply stupid person".
Much of the pandemic is complicated, but the concepts/principles that we are talking about here are not complicated at all - anyone who still does not understand these is just plain stupid, irredeemably so by this stage, I would imagine.
I guess the question is, why is stupidity seen as a masculine trait by these people?
Just had the press conference from the NSW premier (35 cases yesterday, in case anyone is still playing along at home), and she said something really interesting:
She said that she's obviously in a position to hear a lot more about each individual who had caught the disease (they were talking about people cooperating with contract traces, being honest about where they have been) and she said that a common theme between people who had caught it was the overwhelming feeling of guilt at the prospect of having passed the disease on to somebody else who might get ill or die.
That's certainly the reason that I'm careful (and will continue to be), and it's good to hear that most people feel similarly.
Keep hiding behind your masks by all means, but don’t be surprised if you get funny looks or people avoid you as they assume you must be sick.
Yep, fear of funny looks is a well known character trait of 'the hard man'...
Such insecurity.
People not wearing masks indoors will be told in no uncertain terms to stay the eff away from me.
Its funny how people deny proven science. Masks work. Its proven.
I'm a bit disappointed, I have had some decent discussions with Airvent. Fundamentally we disagree, but if masks are no longer law it's a choice he has the right to make. I think he's wrong and selfish but he has the right, just as I/we have the right to point it out.
But yesterday was about a clear wrong understanding of the data, which I thought was pointed out robustly but fairly. And as we so often see instead of 'oops, silly me!' instead there were insults and abuse. I'm happy to listen and debate but it goes both ways. And now as with others before, and like politicians in interviews simple refusal to answer a clear, direct question.
I thought better of you Airvent.
Flanagaj.....I have no idea but once again seems like another that wants to shout their opinion but not answer any challenges to it? They are so sure they are right but not enough to have it scrutinized.
That article is interesting. Can never be wrong, can never be challenged, won't be told what to do. I've worked with people like that in the past and collectively, just a bunch of ignorant pricks.
she said that a common theme between people who had caught it was the overwhelming feeling of guilt at the prospect of having passed the disease on to somebody else who might get ill or die.
Been my driver for decision making every time we've relaxed the rules - kids at different secondary schools with infections rumbling at relatively low levels, bring it home, I go out with mates to the pub, or a club ride with up to 14 others in a group, with kids at different schools, and off it might go. One of my kids is musical, the other national level at her sport. Both require fully functional unscarred lungs for their future plans. And they quite like their grandparents.
Or I can be cautious and wait till the overwhelming majority of people are double jabbed, keep my distance, and virtue signal my honourable intentions by cowering behind my mask for a bit longer.
People not wearing masks indoors will be told in no uncertain terms to stay the eff away from me.
Well done you big man. I'd ignore you or happily tell you to do one.
Feel free to stay the eff away from me.
I’d ignore you or happily tell you to do one.
This is why the reality is that we need to move as one from mask wearing to not mask wearing in shops, and why we need the leadership required to do that when the time is right (hopefully soon, but clearly not this month). While we are in a pandemic with rising cases we can’t expect nurses etc to avoid shops and other public indoor spaces where people are “choosing” for themselves to maximise the risk of passing the virus on. There is still no invisible barrier between those who are at risk and those who are not. Health and care staff, and others in close contact with the at risk, live in the same communities as the rest of us.
where people are “choosing” for themselves to maximise the risk of passing the virus on
That's exactly the issue, wearing a mask may become a "personal choice" but in doing so you are determining the risk of OTHER PEOPLE. Not just directly (the people around you), but the wider population. I'm sure there are (or soon will be) models that show % compliance with restrictions vs outcomes.
It's no surprise that mask wearing is such a "wedge" issue in the US, where individual freedoms are perceived to be more important than collective action to improve outcomes (see also gun control). Some people are seemingly incapable of understanding (see above re: "stupid") that a mask is primarily there to protect other people from YOUR germs.
we need the leadership
'Care' Minister Helen Whateley on the BBC, pressed on whether she would wear a mask on public transport, given that it is likely to be her personal choice/common sense.
"I'll follow the guidance"
There won't be any guidance! In a nutshell, that's the problem. No guidance, no leadership, employers telling their workers to get into the office come what may, and idiots stigmatizing and ridiculing mask use in public places.
My expectations of this government are a pretty low bar, but they still manage to crawl underneath.
Jenrick has said he'll stop wearing one as soon as he can. Why are we not surprised.
There's no I in team, but there is a U in <insert worst swear word in world>
On the one hand I’m warmed by the majority opinion here that if I walked into a shop full of Stw’ers they’d nearly all be wearing masks. I’m not sure that’s the reality though.
Last week I took my car for a service. The dealer in question has one large open foyer/room with central seating, and had been adapted for Covid measures the first being a sign the door stating masks must be worn, and hands sanitised on entry. I wore mine, and sanitised my hands.
Although they did have Shields on the desks, none of the staff were wearing masks. Of the 10 or so customers waiting one wore a mask and one had one below his chin. When I came back to collect my car the situation was the same, with “chin man” still beavering away at his computer in the same position - 90 mins in a closed room with a variety of unmasked people not wearing a mask himself and presumably all day for the staff.
Unfortunately that I think is the reality we face, with dominant lacsidasical effort and peer pressure to not wear a mask tbh.
🙄 if there was ever evidence required that folk have lost all sense of rationality, then this it. Everything else is collateral damage in the war against the humanity destroying ‘Covid’.
I have never denied Covid, I just think the original models were completely wrong and they assumed all age groups would be equally affected. That model has proven to be wrong.
Makes me chuckle that in the middle of a ‘pandemic’ house prices are on fire and people are desperate to go on holiday 🙄
Mobile mortuaries and field hospitals on school playing fields. That’s a pandemic!
My expectations of this government are a pretty low bar, but they still manage to crawl underneath.
I put the bar on the ground but the bastards came along with a shovel.
There’s no I in team, but there is a U in <insert worst swear word in world>
Long-time since I've seen that but it still applies.
I think those of us who choose to continue wear masks need to also reflect carefully on how we respond to those who choose not to. It takes two sides to build a confrontation, and we shouldn't be making life harder for staff in shops etc by kicking off at people who make a different choice to us when they are allowed.
p7eaven your picture describes exactly what I mean, mask wearing and social distancing are still the rules, but they are being ignored by many and case rates are accelerating. Extending mask wearing and social distancing beyond 19th July is not really going to help a great deal as more and more people decide it's not for them, see above for the views of the masses. If we want to significantly reduce infections we will have to return to much stronger restrictions and there's no way Boris will do that.
So will I continue to wear a mask when the guidance is lifted? Depends on how many others do, if a good proportion do I will, if the majority don't what's the point, the mask is not to protect me. Personally i think we will see the majority stop overnight on the 18th.
Have a George Cross… anything you want NHS staff… sorry, you want what BMA Council? A few more weeks of mask wearing in shops and trains…!?! Ha ha! No way. We know our snowflakes well… you ask too much of them and us.
Mobile mortuaries and field hospitals on school playing fields. That’s a pandemic!
Presumably you mean temporary and extra not mobile, what’s the point of a mobile mortuary?
Oh look a pandemic!
Mobile mortuaries and field hospitals on school playing fields. That’s a pandemic!
As long as 130,000 people die out of view of the general public, everything is still just dandy.
🙄 if there was ever evidence required that folk have lost all sense of rationality, then this it. Everything else is collateral damage in the war against the humanity destroying ‘Covid’.
I have never denied Covid, I just think the original models were completely wrong and they assumed all age groups would be equally affected. That model has proven to be wrong.
Makes me chuckle that in the middle of a ‘pandemic’ house prices are on fire and people are desperate to go on holiday 🙄
Mobile mortuaries and field hospitals on school playing fields. That’s a pandemic!
Mate..... Not really sure what point you are trying to make, but almost everything you're written there is either completely incomprehensible, or completely incorrect.
Edit:
Mobile mortuaries and field hospitals on school playing fields. That’s a pandemic!
What do you think "nightingale Hospitals" were? Did you think they were actually hospitals? They are just warehouses to put the dead and dying when the actual hospitals were overrun. Thank god we managed to avoid that.... not by much though.
As long as 130,000 people die out of view of the general public, everything is still just dandy.
Being pedantic, the adjusted figure based on death certificates is over 150,000 i think.
Anyway, MCJnr spent Saturday afternoon doing socially distanced outdoor skills with the Scout group where he is a young leader. One of the Scouts has reported a positive LFT this morning, waiting for the results of the subsequent PCR to determine if anyone needs to isolate. My lad is waiting on his own LFT now.
My 80 year old parents popped round yesterday as it was his 18th. We'd been out for brunch at a local cafe.
Having turned 18 yesterday, his first jab is booked for Thursday.....
what’s the point of a mobile mortuary?
Beats me.
To pick up all of the rotting corpses littering the streets and fields during Real Pandemic™ ?
To decommission the week afterwards for Freedom™ street party?
To satisfy nocturnal micturaters?
To satisfy Covid skeptics?
#satirediedtoday
#otherapproachesavailable
I think the government have decided that a few hundred deaths a week is something they can live with.
They'll not admit that, obvs but this is what Javid means when he says 'living with it' , but theyve backed themselves into an ideological corner on this one, there's a culture war to win after all!
With schools in England & Wales finishing on 19th, which is where a lot of transmission seems to be, the cases should ease up after that.
The confounder will be the weather, if its warm & dry and stuff can be kept outside things will tick over with deaths in the loww hundreds a week, until we have double vaccinated 70%- but that would require 12+yrs old as well.
I don't think the naysayers realise how close we came to something like that - and it was only because we took actions and the majority of people are not arseholes that we avoided it.
See also 'What millenium bug? Total over reaction.....'
I notice still no answer to my questions about mask wearing in shops.
“I’ll follow the guidance”
Even now the guidance is hopelessly confused. Mrs OWG works in a school. One of the kids she's been working with got a positive test, LFT then confirmed by PCR. The school has had several emails from PHE about what the procedure should be. One says that staff who have been in contact with a case should self isolate and get a PCR test as soon as they can. Another says they should get a PCR test on day 5. The official pages at gov.uk and NHS.uk both say they don't need a PCR test unless they have symptoms. They also say that even if you do get a PCR that is negative, you still have to self isolate for the whole 10 days. So Mrs OWG got a PCR test. At the test centre the was a notice that said all of her household should also get tested - none of the guidance had suggested that. And then she got an email confirming a negative result, which also told her she could now go back to work - directly contradicting the 'guidance' on the official pages. So it isn't really surprising that no-one seems to have a ****ing clue what is going on.
airvent - would you go in for surgery if the surgeon or theatre staff weren't wearing masks? I wouldn't.
Also I'm hoping my dental practice and GP practice staff will still be wearing masks.
Masks along with the hand washing and social distancing without doubt curb infection (along with being outdoors and ventilation indoors).
Also I’m hoping my dental practice and GP practice staff will still be wearing masks.
Any businesses (obv meaning your dentist and not GP!) that don't wear them are mental, as it'll lose them a whole load of custom.
So Boris is lifting all restrictions and leaving it to the 'common sense' of the British People?
He can't have met too many of the type of people who generally bang on about 'common sense' as they're usually as thick as a submarine door. It was appropriate that he sent out 'Care Minister' Helen Whately to deliver this news. A woman who looks like she could be easily outsmarted by a pot plant.
https://twitter.com/SiobhanBenita/status/1411945933080776707?s=20
Thanks for clearing all that up for us Helen.
I think I'll use my 'common sense' in staying out of the way of other people, like Helen, using their common sense, thanks
Mobile mortuaries and field hospitals on school playing fields. That’s a pandemic!
Na, this is a proper pandemic. None of your bed-wetting modern rubbish like Ebola and covid:
Flannerj
You should try telling that to those of us that work in healthcare. Idiot
Flannerj
You should try telling that to those of us that work in healthcare
I doubt they would say anything to anyone, unless behind their keyboard or surrounded by their fellow simpletons. Those that are shouting this shit the loudest are often the most socially awkward - as suggested in the link up there.
Just remember the usernames.
I think the government have decided that a few hundred deaths a week is something they can live with.
They’ll not admit that, obvs but this is what Javid means when he says ‘living with it’ ,
There was always a level of deaths that was "tolerable", as there is with seasonal flu, alcohol related deaths, traffic accidents.
It's just that the government haven't said what it is. Labour's health spokesman has asked them to clarify, apparently. Good luck with that.
Mobile mortuaries and field hospitals on school playing fields. That’s a pandemic!
Thank god we managed to avoid that…. not by much though.
...and only by putting some quite serious measures in place.
This comment is largely a response to something I saw a few pages back last night, and I decided to add something. I also picked out a few choice comments from today's posts above.
This is based on the idea that those complaining they want their lives back are "selfish idiots" who "just want to go to the pub", and "you can go to the pub now, so what are you complaining about?"
At least as I see it, it's not about me. I've already paid the price, and will probably continue paying it for the rest of my life. My young family has had some brutal times since March 2020, and as an honest hard-working taxpayer, I probably will be paying for the economic fallout for the rest of my life. I know "selfish idiot" is a popular phrase at the moment, but I personally would never dare say that to anyone asking for some amount of normality back.
I do also have to remember that life is different again here in Wales, where we are still not allowed in each other's houses, and the 2m rule shows no sign of being lifted and will potentially kill most in-person business.
At this point, my worries are for others.
1. In my opinion, at least in the UK, the fear of Covid has been promoted to an incredibly unhealthy and excessive degree, and that needs undoing sooner rather than later. The state of our nation's mental health is currently horrifying.
2. We are screwing the younger generations. I have a kid in nursery, and it's really hard to watch how hard it is for the staff to try to offer some kind of healthy environment for the kids while complying with all the reams of rules. We're not even allowed in the building, which I think is unacceptable. I'm sure it only gets worse for primary and secondary schools, and I"m sure university education will suffer too. As well as that, the economic effects will make it hard for younger people to get on any kind of job or career ladder at all.
3. It's incredibly tough on young families. It would be great if all the voluntary childcare and toddler groups would open again, so that my wife's life as she raises our kids at least has some respite.
4. In my opinion, the social effects of isolation and mask-wearing policies will, in the long term, be severely detrimental to the social health and cohesiveness of our nation. It really sucks not being able to read people's faces, or see anyone smile.
It's not because I don't care about people dying. It's because I think cure is wore than the disease.
As long as 130,000 people die out of view of the general public, everything is still just dandy.
550,000 people die a year in the UK, mostly out of sight, and of approximately the same average age and condition as those who have sadly passed from Covid since 2020. It's very sad for all those involved, but it's not anything new.
You should try telling that to those of us that work in healthcare. Idiot
A very close relative works in healthcare. They are scared and deeply troubled by the amount of other health issues they see, that are the results of the UK's lockdown policy. They told me they cannot take it any more, having to tell people that an ambulance is on the way when they know perfectly well that, due to a variety of reasons but dominated by the state of Covid procedures, there is not.
Just remember the usernames.
Delightful. Write them down, so you don't forget them. Maybe distribute some copies of the list, to make sure everyone gets the message.
I don't know about others but I'm properly bricking it about our direction now. Partly from a fear of what could happen to the general public with variants etc but also as it goes against every bit of scientific evidence and is leading us straight to a certain second winter locked down (or as locked down as we did before). But mainly because it will destroy me personally, mentally and financially. I'm only just starting to get my head above water mentally after having spent the last 8 months trying my best to protect my elderly, vulnerable parents where I've put pretty much my whole life on hold and not met friends anywhere near as often as the rules allowed. Financially I was lucky to benefit form a very decent redundancy payout last year but that has now pretty much all gone. I'm just on the cusp of finding full-time work but due to me being a new starter I'm at the real risk of any job being taken away at the first sign of trouble and losing it all.
So when I see this written:
49 and never stuck a muzzle on my face in the whole time. Can’t wait to look back on this scam in years to come. A great many folk are going to feel rather duped.
I just want to scream. Try explaining to the families of the 6 people I know who have died from the virus or the multiple people I know who have had it but managed to survive, some with mild effects but two have serious long Covid, that it's all a scam and didn't really endanger the lives of their loved ones. Or the friends I have in the NHS who have gone through absolute hell for the last 18 months.
But reading this gives me some hope:
She said that she’s obviously in a position to hear a lot more about each individual who had caught the disease (they were talking about people cooperating with contract traces, being honest about where they have been) and she said that a common theme between people who had caught it was the overwhelming feeling of guilt at the prospect of having passed the disease on to somebody else who might get ill or die.
That’s certainly the reason that I’m careful (and will continue to be), and it’s good to hear that most people feel similarly.
The bit I've put in bold is exactly hoe I feel. So happy to have it confirmed I am not alone.
Twrch: At least your post is reasonable & not aggressively offensive unlike some others, but what I would say is that it does contain some logical fallacies
1. In my opinion, at least in the UK, the fear of Covid has been promoted to an incredibly unhealthy and excessive degree, and that needs undoing sooner rather than later. The state of our nation’s mental health is currently horrifying.
You need to consider what the state of the nation’s mental health would be if the disease was allied to run rampant. Thousands of deaths & millions infected is going to have an equally detrimental to people’s state of mind. You can’t tell me that people in Brazil are relaxed & happy thanks to Bolsonaro?
Similarly, unchecked transmission would have a massive effect on businesses that rely on human contact. People will go into self-imposed lockdown as was demonstrated here before L1 started. Have a look at Sweden’s economic performance to see that trying to avoid lockdown doesn’t prevent financial hardship.
The virus is the thing causing the problem. Illness and economic difficulties are the result of it.
As well as that, the economic effects will make it hard for younger people to get on any kind of job or career ladder at all.
It's interesting that some still assume that not acting to reduce transmission is the best/only way to reduce the economic effects of the pandemic. As for education... prioritising a "no restrictions" approach to the summer holidays over starting the next academic year on the best possible footing in September still seems like the wrong choice, acting in the interests of the wrong people. Well, except for the fact that many in education can't vote, and those that can tend not to support the people in this government.
I just find it hilarious now and can’t wait for two weeks time.
I'm more interested in twelve weeks time.
For some perspective, when deaths peaked (twice), mortality (number of corpses per week to be blunt), was running at double the normal level. Now the "death industry", like any other, has a natural capacity and a little flex (say 20%). It was swamped. Yes there was a run on body bags. Yes there was a concern for mobile mortuaries and mobile crematoria. That doubling was against a background of the most significant restrictions in social interaction seen for an infectious agent. Sometimes the media limits its reporting for a reason.
Responding to @twrch, I agree with much of what you've said - as do most people. Some return to normality is due and vaccination should provide a route to that return. But don't be surprised if when things start to snowball, measures are reintroduced. We were late with those measures last winter and saw twice as many deaths as "a very bad flu year". A shift to morbidity in the younger population will certainly make the news.
Personally, I think that we will see events drive decisions again if data starts to look unpalatable. Winter flu and booster vaccinations is the plan. Watch for RSV infections too in the elderly who are untreated for this viral infection.
I think I’ll use my ‘common sense’ in staying out of the way of other people, like Helen, using their common sense, thanks
Evidenced this morning; Mrs K goes to the post office and queue's with a mask but challenges a woman standing immediately behind her in her personal space, unmasked. The woman's reply was "what's your problem? I won't need to wear a mask from the 19th..."
Its July 5th today. This is the "common sense" we're all about to face.
I feel, as one of those who have complained about selfishness, that I need to respond.
I can't address all of your points specifically, other than really to say i mainly agree. I too have a young family, one with a very specific personal situation that needs things to get as close to normal as we can.
My complaint about selfishness is purely around individuals that say they already refuse to follow basic requests that keep us all safer, relatively low cost / intrusivity measures such as mask wearing. 'I've not worn a muzzle at all' is just a selfish act.
Wanting to get things open again for all the benefits they bring is not selfish, even if as a result they can do things they want. It is good for the economy, for the young, etc. But accepting some simple measures in the meantime to allow that seems still eminently sensible.
One point I would say - yes there are detriments to mask wearing - I'm a little deaf and didn't realise how much I lip read as well as listening. Particularly in noisier environments. It's harder to read facial expressions, although there is evidence that kids can read facial expressions better with masks than with eg: sunglasses, so the eyes actually convey more than the mouth for some expressions.
I'd love to be able to get rid of them, I just don't think we can yet. When made optional, I still think choosing not to is a selfish act because they protect others more than the wearer. Choosing not to while it remains law, sorry but dick move IMHO
Hard agree with all of that Jon.
As long as 130,000 people die out of view of the general public, everything is still just dandy.
550,000 people die a year in the UK, mostly out of sight,
So an extra 20odd percent is OK? Don't forget that's with some stringent measures in place.
Can’t wait to look back on this scam in years to come. A great many folk are going to feel rather duped.
I'm sure my mate will be overjoyed when his mum pops out her coffin and reveals she didn't die from covid as it was just a scam.
I'm sure my other friend's husband will have a chuckle when he finds out he was duped into spending months in intensive care and the couple of times he had his chest sawn open for some emergency heart surgery was just a scam.
@kelvin - I can't help thinking the relaxation of restrictions is very conveniently timed for the MPs summer recess (starts 22nd) and, in a classic Tory u-turn, we'll be locked down again in September/October just when you'd hope to be getting into the swing of an uninterupted academic year.
In my opinion, at least in the UK, the fear of Covid has been promoted to an incredibly unhealthy and excessive degree, and that needs undoing sooner rather than later. The state of our nation’s mental health is currently horrifying.
I wonder how much of a "thing" this is - I see it mentioned Twitter a lot, largely by anti-lockdown anti-maskers, but I don't feel I particularly live in fear (caveat - great employer, very supportive of WFH, can go into the office if we choose, and I sometimes do), Mrs Pondo teaches secondary so is at far more risk of catching it, but she tests regularly and does what she can to mitigate in the face of a criminal lack of support from the government. If I do go to the office or pop to a shop, I wear a mask, socially distance and sanitise regularly, not out of a sense of fear, more out of social responsibility.
Thousands of deaths & millions infected is going to have an equally
Millions of deaths without the precautions
I wonder how much of a “thing” this is
Just yesterday, my 12.5yo refused to go down a shop aisle because it was “too crowded”.
Interesting that twrch comes in with a calm counter argument to the generally prevailing view, and there's a sensible discussion around points that people agree on and disagree on.
Maybe those that rant about bedwetting muzzle wearers could learn a thing or two from his example.
Well done twrch
Just yesterday, my 12.5yo refused to go down a shop aisle because it was “too crowded”
Sensible guy. It's quite nice knowing some younger people are being cautious too.
having to tell people that an ambulance is on the way when they know perfectly well that, due to a variety of reasons but dominated by the state of Covid procedures, there is not.
If your friend the healthcare worker is doing this then thats gross professional negligence without a defense. Instant dismissal. therefore i si9mply do not believe it because no one in healthcare would do that.
Even now the guidance is hopelessly confused. Mrs OWG works in a school. One of the kids she’s been working with got a positive test, LFT then confirmed by PCR. The school has had several emails from PHE about what the procedure should be. One says that staff who have been in contact with a case should self isolate and get a PCR test as soon as they can. Another says they should get a PCR test on day 5. The official pages at gov.uk and NHS.uk both say they don’t need a PCR test unless they have symptoms. They also say that even if you do get a PCR that is negative, you still have to self isolate for the whole 10 days. So Mrs OWG got a PCR test. At the test centre the was a notice that said all of her household should also get tested – none of the guidance had suggested that. And then she got an email confirming a negative result, which also told her she could now go back to work – directly contradicting the ‘guidance’ on the official pages. So it isn’t really surprising that no-one seems to have a **** clue what is going on.
The guidance is pretty simple in education. I'm a teacher too. In the event of a possitive case, everyone who has been in close contact (the class group and staff) isolate for the full duration. It was relatively recent when they said you could return if you test negative after so many days. But if in doubt, just stay at home. In my college we just isolated for the full duration after a possitive case.
Other half is in a school where staff do not isolate if a child in the class is positive. They isolate if there is a positive test at home though. Our youngest is in a school were pupils in a class groups don't isolate if someone in the class is positive. They do isolate if there is a positive test on their bus though. "Pretty simple"... means varies depending on school and local authority.
I have been wondering about this for a while and tbh this seems to be the place to ask based on my skim reading on these pages. Apologies if someone has already asked/answered.
So, having listened to all the briefings recently and watched the little banners going across my screen announcing how many 1st & second jabs we have all had (I get my second tomorrow) it seems we are well on the way to a high percentage of coverage. Whilst i look at all the deaths with sadness i have not been swayed at all from my belief the government and all the advisors planned the herd immunity program from the start and it was always just a case of reaching the magic number of confirmed cases or vaccinated individuals whilst protecting the NHS from being overwhelmed.
I asked a ward nurse about cases in my area yesterday. She said 5 in total. They are completely on top of things at present and have capacity to cope. I then asked how many cases in total have they had in for people with 1st or 2nd jabs. She couldnt answer. Now considering the 'selling point' of the jabs isnt that it protects you from getting it. Its to stop you being hospitalised, WHY ARE WE NOT HEARING THE GOOD OR BAD NEWS STORIES?? It seems weird that the major selling point isnt being stuffed down our throats. Or am i missing something?
Our youngest is in a school were pupils in a class groups don’t isolate if someone in the class is positive.
I'd be reporting that school if I knew the name. My nephew (6) had to isolate when there was a possitive case in his class. He tested possitive a few days later with no symptoms. Just shows how easily it spreads.
My nephew (6) had to isolate when there was a possitive case in his class.
That's a primary school though. Secondaries have to be more flexible, or most kids would be sent home, considering how many share a classroom once you've looked at all lessons/subjects.
I then asked how many cases in total have they had in for people with 1st or 2nd jabs. She couldnt answer.
It wouldn't be that useful. People who have had their second jabs will make up a large proportion of a hopefully ever smaller number of hospitalisations, as more of them will be in the older age groups. And the more people have had their second jabs... the larger the proportion of hospitalisations will be people who've had their second jabs.
WHY ARE WE NOT HEARING THE GOOD OR BAD NEWS STORIES
We are, it's called huge case numbers and very few deaths.
I'm wonder if the changes in the waring of masks will make that much difference as there is already no masks in pubs, cafes, restaurants, school, lots of work places and private events. Will adding shops and public transport to that list change the infection rate much more.
If that is the case Nobeerinthefridge then why are so many complaining about cases going up? Surely we dont care about that stat now as long as the death rate doesnt shoot up or the hospitalizations dont shoot up. In fact the more cases without needing care means the vaccine is a success and they are right to open things up.
In fact the more cases without needing care
That would be fine, if it didn't also mean more cases needing care. Admissions are currently rising slower than cases are, which is good news (but don't forget the lag). They are not flat though.
Don't ignore the "not hospitalised but not recovered" people either, however many they are (a bit of a statistical black hole there).
Define care Kelvin? The point is if they have been vaccinated the majority of people shouldn't need hospital care. Why are we not being told how many cases that require hospital care involve people who have had 1 or 2 jabs?
Why are we not being told how many cases that require hospital care involve people who have had 1 or 2 jabs?
Why would it help? If admissions are lower in this wave, even if everyone admitted had 2 jabs, it would still be a positive sign that vaccinations are working.
Let's assume, say, a third of people admitted this week had 2 jabs... what would you do with that info? Some would understand that isn't a sign that vaccinations are failing... but what about those that would take it to mean (wrongly) that vaccinations don't offer any protection?
What happens if in a month's time, when the huge majority of people have had 2 jabs... and therefore the majority of admissions are likely to be people who have had 2 jabs... how will people use the knowledge that more people are being hospitalised having been 'fully vaccinated' than those who have not been vaccinated at all?
I’m wonder if the changes in the waring of masks will make that much difference
The problem with a policy that was never brought in on the strongest of evidence is that it is also quite difficult to prove they are not required. Whilst I have gone through the motions, I have a lingering suspicion that putting non-airtight bits of cloth over your face is little more than a placebo measure. I wont be wearing one beyond the 19th by choice but would still respect e.g. a shop owner who asked - it will take time for everyone's perception of risk (and what mitigates that risk) to level out.
Kelvin, you keep modifying your posts and adding stuff. Makes it very difficult to answer.
Because if most of the admissions are for people who havent had the jab then it underlines the vaccines value, it gives credence to opening things up and it backs up what the government is working towards. It puzzles me they arent reporting its success to hammer it home.
The last thing i want to be hearing is lots of people (say a third like your example) being admitted who have had both jabs. It would completely undermine things. The percentages of hospitalizations for people who have had the jab are supposed to be 90%+ less than those who havent
Of course there becomes a point where the huge number of people vaccinated means the numbers will be muddied. At that point surely its just down to hospital cases being not worth talking about and lets get back to living our lives.......if the vaccine is as successful as they say it is