If you swapped your smartphone with someone else you would get an entirely different set of COVID facts and therein lies the problem.
Social media isn’t the issue, it’s the strength and the clarity of the leadership. Instead of fining us £10,000 for singing in someone’s Newcastle house, a clear set of rules and an authoritive stamp on the media that repeats it would start to be far more effective. The government should be sending out a dictat that we are in a clear national emergency, and any corporate media platform that promotes entanglement of the rules faces action.
Now, you cant stop people tweeting incorrectly, but itd be much harder to misunderstand if the core repetitive message was strong, loud and repeated from stable well respected (and the daily mail) sources.
Thing is, it’s weak, entangled, ever changing, flawed, open to criticism and interpretation and is often flouted by the source. it’s little more than a fairy tale that keeps you guessing. Pretty much the only consistency now is wash your hands, cover your face and social distance.
Theres another announcement tonight, and we led to believe London/ lock down areas gets six months of not visiting others houses and 2 weeks of pub and restaurant closure. And there’s your issue - that’s a rumour before the fact, as is a half term lockdown. What will Boris say today? And will that be Monday so we can all go and get pissed one last time again at the weekend? Etc, etc, etc.....
It’s rules full of conjecture, change and challenge. Uncertain actions in uncertain times.
In case nobody noticed, they're making it up as they go along. They have no plan, no great playbook strategies, no end-game scenario. This is what happens when you have an overgrown child in charge.
As much as I'd like to see them all shot at dawn due to their handling of this, I'm now of the opinion that if Boris had died because of Covid-19, we'd all be better off. They might have actually been so shocked that they get off their arses and tried to do something constructive (rather than selling the family silver behind the scenes and hoping this goes away)
Just as an aside, I think I have the Lockdown/COVID blues today. With much to be thankful for, my own "it is what it is approach" together with - see Retirement thread - one of my mates getting out to retire to sunnier climes today it seems a weird emotional combo.
I can't put my finger on it, but I'm a little bit dejected and a little bit emotional. I think perhaps its surprising that the lack of interaction and variety in our lives affects us so much - notwithstanding I'm usually quite happily introverted so its shocked me TBH.
Another nice long piece of airtime for our favourite theoretical epidemiologist on Radio4 Today, as they did one of their “balanced” pieces again. It’s just climate change and Brexit all over again, isn’t it.
And least we have More Or Less coming up next to make up for it…
It’s not her job, and saying “I don’t know” is the right thing to do.
She is a minister. It was inevitable when she turned up that day she was going to be asked about the lockdown as opposed to just her own subject area. It shouldnt be a surprise since it happens every day. So for her not to do any prep was poor.
For me though it was the "I am sure they can find out" which was a failure. The correct response would have been to be able to point them to the clear and helpful government website where you can see the exact rules for your area.
Sadly though since that would take more than three words, of which at least two are generally a lie, that seems beyond the government.
I think it's easy to let all this get on top of you, no question. Throw other stuff from your personal life into the mix and you're drowning.
I've stopped watching or listening to the news, except from sports stuff. This isn't going away soon, but it will eventually, meanwhile life goes on. It doesn't stop me doing what I love, ie the great outdoors, I'm fortunate enough to have my health, a job and a loving family, so I focus on what I have.
Look at the positives Krypton. 🙏
I can’t put my finger on it, but I’m a little bit dejected and a little bit emotional.
It’s a difficult time of year for “can’t put my finger on it ennui”… many people get it most years as October hits… don’t be hard on yourself… many more will feel it this autumn I expect, as getting together with people as the evenings get darker normally helps fight off the feeling. Look after each other people… remote communication can help. Fire up Zoom or FaceTime…
And there’s your issue – that’s a rumour before the fact
The problem is that this is a government isn't really even a government at all. Its the 'Vote Leave' campaign, led by Cummings and it has a single issue agenda... Brexit
And all it knows how to do is whats worked for them in the past. And their previous campaigns thrived on misinformation, lies, truth-twisting and the abuse of data, all delivered via vacuous sloganeering. It's what they do. But whats now apparent is that thats all they can do. They're a one trick pony.
When it comes to the sort of clear, concise, unambiguous communication thats required right now, they just don't know where to start. They haven't a clue. They simply don't know how to do it as it goes against all their natural instincts.
Their instinct is to jealously hoard data and information, not distribute it, and to conduct their activities in a totally opaque manner, when whats required is transparency. They are naturally confrontational when cooperation is whats actually needed
And because they don't know what they're doing their default has been kite-flying. The press will report 'A Downing Street Source' (thats code for Dominic Cummings) is indicating a policy change. But its just a kite-flying exercise to gauge reaction and opinion. And depending on reaction, they might follow though on it, they might not. But because they're doing this shit all the bloody time, they can't even keep track of it themselves.
So what chance do the rest of us have?
She is a minister. It was inevitable when she turned up that day she was going to be asked about the lockdown as opposed to just her own subject area. It shouldnt be a surprise since it happens every day.
Our management team at work all head up different teams and objectives, but everyone of them knows and works to the overall company strategy. Its not rocket science or a new invention, as above one would expect she'd know the overall if not the specifics of a different area.
More Or Less are on pooled testing… we’re lucky to have TiRed here to make us aware of this (amongst other things) ages ago.
And because they don’t know what they’re doing their default has been kite-flying. The press will report ‘A Downing Street Source’ (thats code for Dominic Cummings) is indicating a policy change. But its just a kite-flying exercise to gauge reaction and opinion. And depending on reaction, they might follow though on it, they might not. But because they’re doing this shit all the bloody time, they can’t even keep track of it themselves.
Nailed it.
led by Cummings and it has a single issue agenda… Brexit
Not entirely true. Brexit is a means to an end. Cummings wants to reinvent the country using brexit as the pivot point.
Overall though I would agree. Cummings has been a professional political campaigner/dreamer all his life with a definite preference for when in doubt tell lies. Which works well enough in a campaign but sadly not so well when you are in charge.
And all it knows how to do is whats worked for them in the past. And their previous campaigns thrived on misinformation, lies, truth-twisting, and the abuse of data all delivered via vacuous sloganeering. It’s what they do. But whats now apparent is that thats all they can do. They’re a one trick pony.
Sounds like the average 2nd/3rd world dictatorship, only without the more sinister and obvious in-your-face censorship & secret police.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54351725
Only just read above article while still very brain foggy, looks like my fears from a few weeks have materialised, positive C19 test results have roughly doubled to ~40+/100k in the North Wales coast counties and if I read correctly, I cannot jump on the train from Southampton to Prestatyn next week to go and visit my mum and sister for a few days.
It'sod's law that by luck, I might have been able to see them at Xmas due to how my shift rota falls, but just like a few years back when train strikes messed things up at the last minute I fear this lockdown will last until around spring. 🙁
Social media isn’t the issue, it’s the strength and the clarity of the leadership
The second point I agree with it but it then causes social media to become a problem.
Most of this discussion is now spreading opinions about what the rules should be. Some of it correct, some of it not, all if it understandably angry and frustrated, some of it bordering on hysterical at times, a lot of it confirmation bias of our own opinions.
I get that it's a chat forum, I get that people are mentally and emotionally exhausted by all this, but we are at times muddying the waters more than they need to be.
The last lockdown was too effective for their liking . Cummings acted to reduce the likelihood of that reoccurring.
You’re ascribing intelligence, thought and planning to a group of our ‘leaders’, who I’m not sure are that deserving.
Posted 19 hours ago
No. I'm talking about Cummings, the man who actually got turkeys to vote for Christmas. Specialist in media manipulation and misinformation. But you think he's just a bit stupid?
Maybe you are more intelligent, but he absolutely shafted an effective lockdown that he was ideologically opposed to.
If I've got to ascribe to him either intelligent choice, or innocent accident, then it's the innocence that I struggle with.
If I’ve got to ascribe to him either intelligent choice, or innocent accident, then it’s the innocence that I struggle with.
I wouldnt say its innocent accident but purely self serving arrogance. Remember he sodded off on hols right at the beginning of the lockdown so he would have had no idea how effective it would have been.
Then when he was caught it was simple arrogance that as a British unelected bureaucrat he doesnt have to answer to anyone.
BillMC
Full Member
Useful article dealing with IFR and R:https://unherd.com/2020/09/has-covid-become-less-dangerous//blockquote >
good article
treatment & possibly control measures reducing fatality rate is a good thing
Unfortunately, because we locked down so late we didnt know all this at the start, countries that avoided big second wave have this knowledge and will have less deaths
The government should be sending out a dictat that we are in a clear national emergency, and any corporate media platform that promotes entanglement of the rules faces action.
Surly that last bit is a dangerous road to go down, the gov' cannot and should not be able to say what the press can and cannot say.
Surly that last bit is a dangerous road to go down, the gov’ cannot and should not be able to say what the press can and cannot say.
limited to Coronavirus announcements and restrictions, they can proliferate all they like about Marjorie at no 10 and her lust for Coronation st.
Instead of fining us £10,000 for singing in someone’s Newcastle house
So is it ok to sing out of toon?
limited to Coronavirus announcements and restrictions,
So would they need to bleep out what Johnson said?
What about when people were challenging the figures and saying we should be going into lockdown whilst Johnson was saying "nahhh got the babyshower this weekend"?
It seems rather dangerous to allow a proven incompetent government to go unquestioned.
colp
So is it ok to sing out of toon?
Post of the day.
a proven incompetent government to go unquestioned
The journalists can ask them questions at the daily briefings. Oh.
I'm dead against limiting what others (including the press) say about this health emergency... the government just needs to stop leaving a vacuum for the speculation to fill (and stop chucking off-the-record briefings into that vacuum to stir things up).
I know it's childish but...
https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1311312433596837896?s=20
And all it knows how to do is whats worked for them in the past. And their previous campaigns thrived on misinformation, lies, truth-twisting and the abuse of data, all delivered via vacuous sloganeering. It’s what they do. But whats now apparent is that thats all they can do. They’re a one trick pony.
The trick is drive it like you stole it. Much of is made of the electorate whisperer post Brexit but it was so close did he contribute or just claim to as happened to be in the vicinity at the time. Following the Rose Garden speech where a bold re-imagining of his insight into the impact of a pandemic occurred - I'm going for the latter. He is the King of Cockups but unfortunately he's now got absolute power as the jester is just clowning around.
That has a graph of all deaths, covid19 deaths, and flu deaths.
The covid19 deaths were much higher than flu, but now, they are actually lower.
i.e. flu is still around, and killing more people than covid, unaffected by any lockdown measures we might be taking, at least as of 18th September.
Hooray for Chris Whitty (briefing) making it very clear.
Well, that was a very good summary of where we are… bit very little about what we are doing, or going to have to do.
The ONS have upped their reporting game. But even adjusting for the week delay from the bank holiday (30 AUG this year), all cause mortality is still above 10-year min/max (they show only 5-years in that data and released tables). Sadly the ratio is above unity still.
Yes it's a semi-log scale, and deaths have been trending upwards, despite the Bank Holiday offset.
I'm still waiting for johnson to state unequivocally what the government's objective is.
There are some contributors who appear to be fully convinced a vaccine will be available in the near future.
Let's assume that a vaccine is some way into the future; what are the gov trying to achieve or do they have no strategy but are reliant on a series of short term measures.
They need to have a clear objective which is shared with the public in an attempt to gain widespread public support.
To date, they have dismally failed.
You can’t state you have a vaccine based plan ‘till you have a vaccine. The only plan is to keep the virus under control with public health measures while we seek to develop both treatments and prophylactics.
I always think a stated objective should lead to intended favourable consequences. If your objective is to "keep schools open", then that has follow-on implications for the economy. You may close pubs to reduce transmission so as to offset the increased transmission from opening schools. You can engage in prospective testing of education establishments and their environs to keep schools open. And so on. Clarity is helpful despite the unpalatable choices.
And there are no good choices here. I think that should also be communicated clearly too.
Step outside the STW bubble and ask...what do the general public understand the gov objectives to be?
TiRed - completely agree with...
there are no good choices here. I think that should also be communicated clearly too.
Well, that was a very good summary of where we are… bit very little about what we are doing, or going to have to do.
say what? Hands, Face, Space, reducing transmission and saving lives not obvious enough? It’s common bleedin’ sense.
say what? Hands, Face, Space, reducing transmission and saving lives not obvious enough? It’s common bleedin’ sense.
Unless you are in a school!
I’m still waiting for johnson to state unequivocally what the government’s objective is.
That's because his or Dom's whole approach is fire fighting and it's held upto to be a legitimate form of government. Lean, flexible and permanently flappable. Boris might have bought into it when it was sold it's harder to hit a moving target so you can avoid accountability. It's probably a whole other thread but yesterday's Boris Talks Bollocks seemed to be a grand work of fiction regarding the causes of under investment in the UK.
his or Dom’s whole approach is fire fighting and it’s held upto to be a legitimate form of government.
It's becoming clear that is no longer acceptable to many tories with the 1922 committee particularly taking issue.
I'll leave this here
El Shalimo - is that a one-off tee?
If not, where can i get one?
Dunno, it's doing the rounds on WhatsApp but it certainly captures the zeitgeist!!
frankconway
Full Member
Step outside the STW bubble and ask…what do the general public understand the gov objectives to be?
TiRed – completely agree with…
The brexit & tory voters on my Facebook feed are specifically asking what the hell is going on
I can't stress enough how behind Johnson they were just 6 months ago
Its amazing how quickly they have turned against this government
My opinion is that they believe in brexit & Boris because they believed it was the obvious and easy option.
Johnson was only ever going to be a PM for the good times, they dont want to hear the truth from Johnson & he is too terrified to tell them.....
there are no good choices here. I think that should also be communicated clearly too.
say what? Hands, Face, Space, reducing transmission and saving lives not obvious enough? It’s common bleedin’ sense.
We're doing that & cases are still rising
"common sense" is just subjective nonsense
say what? Hands, Face, Space, reducing transmission and saving lives not obvious enough? It’s common bleedin’ sense.
Unless you are in a school!
Not quite sure what the constant comments about schools are driving at A_A. I can only talk from personal experience, but our school is trying to do all of the things listed above as best they can, and more. But no-one has ever tried to claim that opening schools presents zero risk. But it's a trade-off between that additional risk and the near-certainty of harm to kids education and general wellbeing if they were kept out of school for longer.
