Good article in the Gruaniad about the original Anti-Mask League here:
I’m not sold one way or the other on masks yet, but I suspect we’ll follow Scotland. The irony of Conservatives telling everyone to cover their face after years of anti-Muslim and anti-hoodie propaganda is almost unbearable though.
Sorry Del,
Didn't read the article in arse technica. I'm not a scientist or an expert, I make observations based on heuristics. I'm not using scientific data to back up my observations.
I said the voices I listen to are those who were calling out the danger of Covid before me. So I care less about how many letters someone has after their name and more about the date attached to their comments. A simple metric that I choose to use. Others may try to understand what's going on by reading scientific papers. YMMV.
Yes, the evidence regarding masks is equivocal, I choose to equivocate towards the less equivocal precautionary principle rather than the more equivocal scientific evidence.
Anyway, as predicted on here previoulsy…
Schools to phase re-opening
Very light on detail, schools will need the detail weeks in advance to make it happen.
Imnotverygood and graham.
I didn't start a spat with anyone. I had a pop at the BBC for what I considered bad journalism. Don't blame me for the way you chose to react.
Grow up the pair of you and grow a pair whilst you're at it.
I'll start a new thread just for you called 'Inkster made me do it'
Very light on detail
Are you surprised? Is any pronouncement from this Government's Ministers anything but light on detail?
schools will need the detail weeks in advance to make it happen
Williamson acknowledges this.
The precautionary principle can be great as long as you incorporate information and evidence and re-appraise. You have also chosen to interpret the wearing of masks as the "precaution". You may be right, but if you aren't evaluating evidence as it comes in and comparing outcomes then you are in the dark about whether it's helping or not.
Some of my opinion is based on air travel in early March. My favourite was a security guard in Johannesburg airport with a mask on his forehead, wearing gloves, sucking the end of his pen while scrolling his phone with his nose.
Right sod you all I'm off for a ride!!
I'll sign off by explaining the reason I have got my knickers in such a twist about this, its because this is a novel virus, what that means is that there's very little evidence about anything concerning it. We are best served by looking at the professional opinions of those who have expert opinion in the relevant areas. When some minister or other says we are guided by the science, its bollocks they are being guided by the scientists. So, when people imply their professional opinion is worth listening to I like to listen, but when they write things that no scientist should I get twitchy, I want to know why they are so sure. The language is important, otherwise people are having the wool pulled over their eyes and people are dying. When that piece of work Cummings is part of Sage trust crumbles and then what do we have, a load of pointless shouting (for which I am sorry for my part).
I want to know why they are so sure
Definition of a Key Opinion Leader - "often wrong, but seldom in doubt". Govt advisors are absolutely no different 😉
The apparent faith in Scientists shown here is as heartening as it is misplaced. We're all human, even the most geeky ones like me!
Maybe it does because its certainly not an easy yes/no.
AA - You seem to have found my position.
Inkster, I like ars precisely because it's written in a way that means you don't need to read the detail unless you want to. They provide a decent precis of the information available ( or that they've found ) and provide links to that information.
At least you've admitted to not reading it. I thought you had not, but had no real interest in engaging with you afterwards.
At the point:
Grow up the pair of you and grow a pair whilst you’re at it.
I’ll start a new thread just for you called ‘Inkster made me do it
I think people in glass houses really shouldn't throw stones.
That’s a great post AA, especially when combined with Tired’s nice little phrase. Enjoy your ride.
I think, that with all talk of PPE, daily death rates, where the blame lies etc, etc, we're surely in danger of losing sight of the most important issue here...
With FA's throughout Europe declaring their leagues null and void we could be heading for what must surely be the silver lining in all of this...
Liverpool having their absolutely nailed-on title snatched away from them after a 30-year wait.
This is obviously going to create a policing problem, what with both the riots in Liverpool and the huge spontaneous street party's all over Manchester 😀
the riots in Liverpool
Social distancing applies.
They'll only be able to steal tellies larger than 72".
what with both the riots in Liverpool
Those would be the socially distanced riots then?
There are less posts in this monster thread than people have died.
Are masks the new helmets ?
I think they are wise to get new/additional people with relevant knowledge and expertise onto SAGE Klunk… let’s hope the government are honest and transparent this time about who those people are and what qualifies them to be contributors. The Cummings/Warner double act being in there has increased people’s scepticism as regards SAGE members and advice. Well, it’s increased mine, anyway.
Really disappointed at the way this thread has gone in the last couple of pages.
Let's try and keep it together today
They’ll only be able to steal tellies larger than 72″
That presumes the thieves are the Chuckle Brothers and have to work together.
Any size box for a solo tea leaf.
Let’s try and keep it together today
One tries. But we all have a wobble occasionally 😉 Monster mask-wars thread incoming...
Apologies for causing the chaos, I challenged in good faith. Have now added some interesting studies if anyone is interested.
Del,
Sorry mate but I can't resist. Why are you all over me like that?
Whats with the line 'At least I admitted that I hadn't read it'. Maybe I was too busy looking up the word patronising.
As for the glass houses comment, haven't thrown any stones that haven't been thrown in first, so safe to return them without danger of causing any further damage.
Couldn't give a stuff about Liverpool.
The burning question is, will Barrow get their deserved promotion to the EFL?
let’s hope the government are honest and transparent this time about who those people are and what qualifies them to be contributors
The way things have gone so far and given that the evil little dwarf is pulling the strings, I'd say that any expectation of honesty or transparency from this lot is being hopelessly naive.
I'm looking at the way they're talking and it seems to me that they're already starting making their statements with one eye on the inevitable public inquiry where they all turn on each other in a huge blame game. They're going to be fighting like rats in a sack.
It's clear that Matt Hancock is being lined up as the fall guy. But he knows (literally) where the bodies are buried, so it's going to get messy
Sorry mate but I can’t resist
I can. Shall we keep it on topic?
TiRed,
There are those who mistake science for revelation rather than a system of signs and symbols.
For those that say masks won’t help – if you were standing 2 metres away from someone who has covid19 and was coughing would you feel safer if they had a face covering that they were coughing into?
would you prefer to be >2m away from someone with CV19 breathing normally or <2m from the same person but they feel they can come closer because you have masks on?
Theotherjonv,
If you've got a mask on and are swinging a pair of bombers it doesn't matter. My arm + bombers = approx 2 metres. Longer travel forks are available for those with shorter arms.
I'm only packing triple sixes, but I'm over 6'.
If they are coughing I'm getting the hell out of there. Dirty buggers should be at home
I think you overestimate the length of your arms.....
Anyone explain this?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52470838
Dr Koch told a news conference this week that the original advice to keep distance between children and their grandparents was made when less was known about how the coronavirus was transmitted.
"Young children are not infected and do not transmit the virus," he said. "They just don't have the receptors to catch the disease."
Five-year-old child among latest UK coronavirus deaths
Looks like they’re balancing the risk to life with the harm to mental health.
Might not be balancing it right mind you. Might not have all the science right either.
Swiss new cases are also looking like they are well past the peak so perhaps also a case of easing restrictions.
No one knows why kids seem to be less affected. They do have the binding receptor ace-2, everyone does, it may even be that they have higher expression than the elderly of it.
That's assuming that he is talking about ace2 as it isn't referenced in the bbc article.
truth is no one has an idea.
This seems to be a good summary
And this
truth is no one has an idea.
Truth is the Swiss guy is clearly wrong or that child didnt die or covid both cannot be right surely.
Yes, it isn't wrong to think that.
I'm always lairy about news articles though as the quotes can be subjective (much like on here), but if he was talking about the ace2 receptor then it can't be correct, plus in the articles I linked children have tested positive even to the point of virus excretion in their faeces
Five-year-old child among latest UK coronavirus deaths
With underlying health conditions. An important ommison from your linked article.
A baby caught it over here didn't she, beat it inn glad to say though. So not sure of the Swiss advice at all?
My mum has yet to hold her great grandson that's about 6 weeks old. The Swiss advice won't be changing that for us that's for sure.
This is familiar ground to Whitty – he is one of the main reasons that Ebola was stopped in its tracks in 2009. Whitty is quite literally one of the best epidemiologists in the world
The following is going around facebook and it's clear he's utterly superb:
The various options were clearly understood in detail long before CV was ever heard of.
My takeaway from the video was that this isn't Whitty's first big epidemic. There are epidemics all over the world all the time and Whitty's been involved in sorting them out for several decades. He's a pro and his involvement in this field hasn't been academic, it's been hands on and practical.
50 odd minutes well spent.
If it's any consolation, Boris has now had his Churchill moment.
More deaths in the UK than UK troops in Gallipoli.
Perhaps he can now follow Churchill's example.
https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/interactive/gallipoli-casualties-country
The plural of (BBC) case report is not clinical trial. How many <5yo have been tested?
evidently withdrawal is not in blowjo's vocab.
The 6 o'clock news was laughable tonight. Martyn Lewis boldy proclaiming there was a 'new method for counting those who have died from Covid-19'. As in, including a significant number of those who actually died from it. Bloody revolutionary!
On a lighter side note I watched Outbreak (1995) on Netflix a couple of days ago.
I probably last watched that in 1996 or 1997 and it seemed like quite a serious film to an impressionable younger me, but now seems like utter nonsense. Sure it's not boring 'cos the pace is so fast, but the science is hard to suspend belief for same as the helicopter flying. Let's fly in the fog on a chopper and dead reckon our way to a moving ship based on it's last known position right?
this isn’t Whitty’s first big epidemic. There are epidemics all over the world all the time and Whitty’s been involved in sorting them out for several decades. He’s a pro and his involvement in this field hasn’t been academic, it’s been hands on and practical.
which makes you wonder why we are where are... maybe.
