Forum menu
It's depressing that SAGE is now endorsing ideas that were being aired on this thread two or even three months ago, IIRC.
The virus was never suppressed properly around here.
Genuine question:
Does anyone have any confidence that this will be handled any better by this shambolic government than in March? That they've learned anything at all?
How far can you push the elastic of democratic consent before it snaps? And once you've scrambled those eggs, how hard is it to unscramble them?
No. If anything they'll do a worse job of it by ignoring any lessons from last time and they now have lost the support of the general public so even if they do the right moves it will all be ignored.
Are they prepared to go further and provide any kind of financial aid for businesses and industry in the area? I’m thinking not.
The financial aid for lockdown 1 was nowhere near enough, and this time it will be much worse. We're going down the US route. It needs not only full income compensation, but also rent/mortgage holidays, debt relief, bankrutptcy protection, a ban on evictions and foreclosures, and bailouts for affected businesses. They could do all of this but they won't, because it looks very much like socialism. The economy is being thrown to the wolves on the basis of blinkered ideology.
How far can you push the elastic of democratic consent before it snaps?
Until people have direct experience of it. When people start seeing their friends and relatives lose their jobs and homes and descend into poverty from a position of comfort it will suddenly hit home that they could be next.
Does anyone have any confidence that this will be handled any better by this shambolic government than in March? That they’ve learned anything at all?
It would appear not...
I thought that was a spoof at first. Apparently not. It's for real. Complete with a catchy three-word slogan by Dom
The government pledged 1.5 billion for arts and culture. Not a single penny has been issued to anyone yet.
It won't cover any staffing costs or wages for all the freelancers that the industry is staffed by. The ones who haven't had a penny from the government and had no work since March.
It will be given, in true Tory style, to the owners of the bricks and mortar. And I'm sure we can all guess which sections of 'the Arts' will be receiving that funding. I'm sure the Royal Opera House isn't unduly concerned.
Culture secretary disowns 'crass' dancer advert
Soylent green is performers!
Being a ballerina is something you train for from the age of 2 or 3, very few make it all the way through, to suggest to those that did make it to dance professionally that they can simply retrain to work in IT is just unbelievable and highly insulting.
I’m sure the Royal Opera House isn’t unduly concerned.
Don't know, they've just had to sell off an £18 million painting.
I'm sure that theatres in Bolton, Rotherham or Sunderland are contemplating having to do the same if they can't put their panto on this year
Twitter always comes up trumps with tihs kind of thing
https://twitter.com/JeremyJaded/status/1315615488383344641?s=20
An anecdotal point on test and trace (some good, some bad). Friend of my daughter has had unusual headaches/diahorrea for a week or so - was told not a COVID symptom so no test. Friend basically lied to get a test (as she wanted to visit her shielding parents who are immuno-compromised) - surprise surprise it is positive (still no symptoms that NHS would recognise as needing a test) and now it is 8 days since symptoms first appeared.
Daughter does however get a text the following day telling her to self isolate from the day of contact (so she is already on day 9 by then).
And this is how it spreads...
Does anyone have any confidence that this will be handled any better by this shambolic government than in March? That they’ve learned anything at all?
I assume that was a pair of rhetorical questions?
I wonder if anyone in govt googled "Cyber"?
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cyber
Mind you, perhaps they're suggesting Fatima sets up an Onlyfans page, I hear it's all the rage in these distanced times.
And this is how it spreads…
I keep pointing out the we know the symptoms for kids are very often different than those presented for adults… but we choose not to amend the advice in the UK to reflect that, because [opinion/supposition not fact] we are not ready to provide the additional and child centric testing that would be in demand if we did so.
China to test 9 million in a week:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-54504785
Even if I didn’t get it off TiRed 🙂
Other experts are available.
I found the dancer advert offensive too. Why not show a surgeon instead?
Whats happening in the rest of Europe right now?
Edukator, Alpin, BobSummers
Can you shed some light on whether this is a UK mess or are all the similar countries experiencing similar?
There have to be factors other than the simplistic incidence rate to justify some local authorities requiring extra intervention and others not. Our LA (Craven) has a rate of 165 per 100K but we aren't even on the "of concern" list yet Birmingham with a rate of 168 is subject to extra restrictions. Perhaps closer to Craven's rural nature is Wyre (just south of Lancaster) with a rate of 157 also with restrictions.
It's not just the rate but the increase in the rate: the last couple of weeks has gone from 80 to 109 to 165, i.e. doubled
There have to be factors other than the simplistic incidence rate to justify some local authorities requiring extra intervention and others not.
Yeah there are, depends on whether you're in a labour or conservative run council or have a high ranking MP or not.
That could all be explained by track and trace results, if track and trace was working well enough to really influence policy. Spoilers: it isn't.
There have to be factors other than the simplistic incidence rate to justify some local authorities requiring extra intervention and others not.
It needs to be simple and transparent, otherwise people arn't going to buy into it.
The infection rate per 100,000 of population is the easiest way of measuring it.
Perhaps the average over a rolling 4 week average?
https://twitter.com/JoshHalliday/status/1315632182837350400
That would be quite something to behold. 'Food-based pubs', indeed.
a) Wetherspoons is a 'cheapest pint for alcoholics-based' pub chain.
b) Isn't pretty much every other pub 'food-based' under that description?
Perhaps food-based-pubs-with-chairmen-who-like-the-tories-and-brexit?
Whats happening in the rest of Europe right now?
Edukator, Alpin, BobSummers
Can you shed some light on whether this is a UK mess or are all the similar countries experiencing similar?
Its tempting to think that our government is uniquely incompetent but We appear to be on a similar trajectory to France and Spain so they're not doing any better than we are.
So the counties affected will only get support if they do what Whitehall say, if not then financial help could be pulled? Unbelievable.
Why not show a surgeon instead?
Because this is a tory gov' who deem anything in the creative industry "not a proper job." As someone thats works in the creative industry I find the whole thing really offensive and makes me hate the tories even more.
BBC have been reporting similar rises in infection rates in Spain and France for a while now, with France talking of pressure in their health system.
Some "rate per thousand" can be a bit too blunt though. An area in Nottinghamshire is showing as very high, but it's a mainly rural area with a low population, but with a prison outbreak of the virus distorting the numbers. Similar to when food processing factories had high infection rates.
Be interesting to know how the older folk are getting infected if their rates are up. Students, schools and workplaces are fairly obvious, but which part of social distancing rules aren't being followed that's putting the over 65s at risk?
Because this is a tory gov’ who deem anything in the creative industry “not a proper job.” As someone thats works in the creative industry I find the whole thing really offensive and makes me hate the tories even more.
And then they'll wonder why their theatres and opera houses etc have closed, and why little Timmy and Florence can't get dance or clarinet lessons. Total disconnect between cause and effect.
This collection of ads is truly shocking. How can a group of "people" be so out of touch with reality and so dismissive that they think its a good idea. Im actually shocked it just reeks of authoritarianism. Let be honest though the Tories have always hated the creative industry they just dont get it.
https://twitter.com/theamzi/status/1315570118580146176?s=20
Be interesting to know how the older folk are getting infected if their rates are up. Students, schools and workplaces are fairly obvious, but which part of social distancing rules aren’t being followed that’s putting the over 65s at risk?
Based on the experience of my parents, my socialising. I've just had a call from my 70 year old Dad asking when the 7 members of our immediate family (3 separate households) can all meet up and it'll be fine going to his house as it's a big house and "if 6 is fine so is 7".
He didn't tell me but I suspect this isn't the first social gathering he's been trying to organise.
However, the other side is he's not seen his family all together for 8 months and it's a risk he's prepared to take...
Be interesting to know how the older folk are getting infected if their rates are up. Students, schools and workplaces are fairly obvious, but which part of social distancing rules aren’t being followed that’s putting the over 65s at risk?
Ignoring the two metre rule when meeting other people and wearing masks over their chins would be my take on it. The only way I can stop the elderly from standing next to me when queuing in the supermarket is to strategically use my basket to form a roadblock behind me.
Well this is excruciating.
He looks as out of his depth as he clearly is. It’s obvious that, as always, he’s not got a clue about the detail of his own new rules.
He’s a ****ing clown! 🙄
Reading between the lines, I gather the other northern metro mayors, other than Steve Rotherham, have told him to **** off with his new measures?
Certainly sounds like Andy Burnham has
Ignoring the two metre rule when meeting other people and wearing masks over their chins would be my take on it. The only way I can stop the elderly from standing next to me when queuing in the supermarket is to strategically use my basket to form a roadblock behind me.
After all they know best...
Andy Burnham for King in The North!!!
Well this is excruciating.
He looks as out of his depth as he clearly is. It’s obvious that, as always, he’s not got a clue about the detail of his own new rules.
He’s a ****ing clown! 🙄
I'm getting angrier and angrier listening to him but I daren't stop listening as if I didn't hear it myself I wouldn't believe what he's saying.
Be interesting to know how the older folk are getting infected if their rates are up.
As said above, they're not adhering to the rules. One of my neighbours has people round all the time, all over 60 and from multiple households. The supermarket tale that flaperon mentions is a common one, they also seem to refuse to wear a mask correctly or at all citing health issues. Could just be the people who frequent my local supermarkets but it's a worrying trend I see.
Coincidence?....
Social distancing in our local shops seems to have been completely abandoned since the introduction of face masks,most people don't seem to realise that it is an ADDITIONAL measure, like Flaparon I find the basket/trolley a useful tool to keep them at a distance
As above, had 2 sets of boomers unable to not stand within a few inches of me today in shops.
That's why their infection rate is sky high, a combination of massive sense of self entitlement and the fact that large swathes of them are thick as ****. **** em all, time for them to stop pretending that they fought in WW2 and stay at home for a few months.
Well it's now clear to me that Cummins is not even pretending to be in the background anymore. Every single line from that speech has already been leaked and regurgitated in the press. BJ knows he's a puppet but would appear to have such low self-esteem, he goes along with it. As soon as he's pressed on a point, nothing but hot air and low-rent retorts he once heard at the debating society.
And...he's gone to the Commons with a prepared speech having only reached agreement with one group of Local Authorities (again probably because it was leaked). Half-baked, half-arsed and probably half-cut.
I had a couple (obviously on a first date judging by their conversation) standing about a foot behind me in a queue at Rushmere Park cafe with no masks on. Every time me and my young daughter moved a little to get away from being able to feel them breathe on us they moved even closer. Ok the queue was outdoors but still I don't want strangers blowing on the back of my neck as they get to know each other
Andy Burnham for King in The North!!!
Spoiler alert!
Was kind of a rhetorical question about the elderly, I've seen similar. A lot of them seem to have reached the stage of not caring any more, which I can understand to a degree. Sticking to the rules leaves them very isolated from loved ones and "prepared to take their chances".
In other news, daughter's school has had its first positive tests, after sons college the other week. Feels like it's edging closer....
Order pickers in supermarkets are just as bad, if not worse. If they want something, there is no pretence of adherence to social distancing guidelines.
Binners... invites for that briefing went out 10 mins before it started, according to MPs that were invited.
There have to be factors other than the simplistic incidence rate to justify some local authorities requiring extra intervention and others not.
It’s based on rate of acceleration not speed. Moderate and steady is a lot better than lower and accelerating fast in a process that grows exponentially.
I was providing that analysis from June.
invites for that briefing went out 10 mins before it started, according to MPs that were invited.
Which would be absolutely consistent with what’s gone before. It gives the impression of total chaos within government. It was clear that, despite Leaking it last Wednesday in their usual kite-flying exercise, they were still sketching it out on a fag packet as Boris stood up in Parliament
It really is a total shambles
And still, still no end goal is announced.
This is one of the major things that I think will help keep people on board and quell the inevitable backlash.
Simply tell us what we’re aiming for and how long you think it’ll take to get there.
Eradication? Fine, we’re in for the long haul. A vaccine? Ok, that’s closer but still long haul. Herb immunity? Well open everything up and lock up granny.
But no, we’ve still got nothing to aim at.
North East MPs didn’t even get 10 minutes notice…
https://twitter.com/kateosbornemp/status/1315643907972173825?s=21
Anyway… so much for simplification… looks as if the new rules, guidelines and business closures for Liverpool City Region will be different to tier three… tier 3.5 ?!?
Herb immunity?
That is Sage's recommendation.
Herb immunity?
That is Sage’s recommendation.
Very good.
Very good indeed.
Anyway, here’s a question. If I walk into a bar with my mate in an area that doesn’t allow people from 2 households to meet inside, how can they check if we live together or not?
^^Has one of your mates got a long face?
Another question - can you travel to Scotland from South Yorkshire (Tier 2)?
If my area goes to tier 2 for Christmas they can naff off! I am seeing my daughter on Boxing day no matter what the Government says
So I'm thinking unless you live in Liverpool or one of the handful of naughty places nothing much has changed, for most of us in the North under restrictions, now tier two, it's pretty much as it was so no additional attempts to reduce our accelerating covid rates. Ironically i thought being in an enhanced area I couldn't meet up social anywhere, turns out that only applied to home and garden, elsewhere the rule of 6 applies although guidance says I shouldn't meet up socially, I have no idea anymore.
If my area goes to tier 2 for Christmas they can naff off! I am seeing my daughter on Boxing day no matter what the Government says
Even if it kills her?
Even if it kills her?
Can I just say I hate this way of stifling discussion on this subject. She’s more likely to die in the car journey to the house.
singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/wheres-the-coronavirus-were-all-going-to-die-conspiracy-thread/page/443/#post-11426164
She would also be in an environment i can control rather than being in a restaurant with loads of strangers which is still OK in tier 2
So, do we think anybody at all in the country (barring Matt Hancock) watched Johnson’s pathetic flailing this afternoon and concluded that the government are on top of things?
We’ve got his painful public statement to come yet, where he does that weird air punching thing that he does when he’s made to pretend he’s a grown up
If my area goes to tier 2 for Christmas they can naff off! I am seeing my daughter on Boxing day no matter what the Government says.
I can pretty much guarantee this lot will suspend any restrictions for christmas. Big business relies too much on the splurge of money on presents and excess food for them to deny their donors that payday. Even if they don't a large proportion of the country will just ignore it anyway.
It’s based on rate of acceleration not speed. Moderate and steady is a lot better than lower and accelerating fast in a process that grows exponentially.
I was providing that analysis from June.
Ta.
Makes sense but it then begs the question as to why not use the rate of increase rather than the underlying figure in the various charts and maps? I think this morning's briefing was one of the few with a map showing such data. Moderate and steady implies an R-number at or slightly below 1 (allowing for the hysteresis in the spread) whereas lower and fast implies a higher value. That is if I've "reverse engineered" things correctly!
why not use the rate of increase rather than the underlying figure in the various charts and maps?
The level of explanation provided to journalists is superficial at best. When did you last see a prediction interval on a graph? Even Vallance's doubling graph of doom - which could have used 14-day doubling and 7-day doubling to give a range of values. People just can not handle uncertainty, I am afraid.
For tier 2, what happens to plumbers, electricians and that? Can they go into people's houses?
Do jets have dashboards?
Can I just say I hate this way of stifling discussion on this subject. She’s more likely to die in the car journey to the house.
I haven't stifled discussion. The poster made a fair point in response, as did binners.
In lighter news, a mate who got laid off due to Covid in June has today started a new job. In cyber security. Apparently I'm not the first person to question his ballet credentials....
Pook, yes, always have been able to, probably can in Liverpool as well. This is a long way from any form of proper lockdown or even what we had in March.
Genuine question.....what tech ability do you need to get into cyber security? My ballet is shocking, but I'm an out of work dosser arts sector worker.
I could probably convince myself to get a 'proper job' if it meant that I could go full STWer and work on the interwebs for a living. My gf currently has an Audi, we could probably afford to keep it if I got a job like that too 🙂
what tech ability do you need to get into cyber security?
According to the ads, pretty much anything will get you into cyber security, but tbf, my mate was in IT support originally
Whitty just explained it in 2 minutes better than Boris ever has.
Genuine question…..what tech ability do you need to get into cyber security? My ballet is shocking, but I’m an out of work dosser arts sector worker.
It's the phone monkey core for you - embrace being the meat in the machine, there's nothing quite like the fulfilling feeling of to the second performance monitoring.
I have no idea anymore
You are not alone. We’re not supposed to travel unless essential, but can go on holiday?
That list of professions is great @pictonroad , but nearly every person listed in that live and work in the USA. I’m not making a trivial point, that is where we are going as regards creative professions… offshore and get people here working in warehouses for as little as possible, with as few rights as they can get away with.
Has Rishi just said that people who are left on 67% of minimum wage will also be entitled to universal credit under the new scheme?