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@mugboo this might be right, but I don't think we know, I assume (because I personally don't know any better) that the experts have decided that on balance the impact of letting it run rampant would be worse (for the economy) than attempting to control and slow the spread
These aren’t my opinions as I spend way too much time on this thread but I think its only right to share this as not everyone gets to talk to as many people as I do.
Yeah, we know that opinion is widespread... and it's not surprising... I hear it even from people who have lost someone from this, or have not really recovered from it. I was ready to throw things at the TV last night, as the Newsnight went full "balance" and let someone (one of the usual 'herd immunity' mob people kept quoting way back in this thread, I forget her name right now, the one who is a 'Theoretical Epidemiologist') eat up airtime while someone there to point out the very real price of that approach had to sit quietly and listen to that nonsense (along with the viewers, many of whom will be moving towards supporting the "do nothing" and leave the vulnerable to magically protect themselves or just quietly die off nonsense).
Well over 50%, maybe 75% favour just getting on with it and letting whatever deaths occur just happen. They can’t see the connection between what we have done and the drop in death rates, In fact, they can’t see that we have even lost anybody extra, only lost a few old folk that were dying anyway.
I'm still surprised when I hear this. I guess that unless you know someone younger/fitter/healthier who has been devastated by the virus, there's a disconnect between the warnings and your actual experience.
Let's hope Cummings doesn't hold a referendum on whether to lockdown or let it rip.
Similar story here re coughs/colds. My 5 year old was only coughing for 2 days, be still has a gravelly voice but almost over it which is quite quickly. The 3 year old came down with it a couple of days later and similar story, she's well on the mend. It is a strong indicator imv, that once covid enters a school it will appear m spread.
We are off to West wittering at half term. This break was cancelled at Easter and rebooked. Couldn't go sooner as we had a baby boy arrive in June. Wife and I feel that we go this time book matter what. Sneaking past road blocks is needed (joking!). TBF though, it's just us in a cottage by the beach.... We'll be self isolating basically, just need to book the supermarket delivery!
I’m still surprised when I hear this. I guess that unless you know someone younger/fitter/healthier who has been devastated by the virus, there’s a disconnect between the warnings and your actual experience.
Let’s hope Cummings doesn’t hold a referendum on whether to lockdown or let it rip.
My brexity mum occasionally complains about the government lying & being useless, but it's amazing how quickly she absorbs the government's line & repeats it- yesterday it was that the testing should be done in the private sector not by PHE, she didn't believe me at all when I said Delloite ran the testing centers
I was ready to throw things at the TV last night, as the Newsnight went full “balance” and let someone (one of the usual ‘herd immunity’ mob people kept quoting way back in this thread, I forget her name right now, the one who is a ‘Theoretical Epidemiologist’) eat up airtime while someone there to point out the very real price of that approach had to sit quietly and listen to that nonsense (along with the viewers, many of whom will be moving towards supporting the “do nothing” and leave the vulnerable to magically protect themselves or just quietly die off nonsense).
Sunetra Gupta, she has been on a few shows in the last week, it isn't an unreasonable viewpoint to offer if you can offer if you can clearly outline the full impact of the consquences and how that balances with the other costs we might land up paying but she seems to just make it sound like it will be abit inconvienent but life goes on
The null hypothesis is that the epidemic went down due to contact restriction. The alternative hypothesis is that the epidemic waned due to acquired immunity and running out of new susceptibles to infect. I do not believe there is sufficient data to reject the null hypothesis. A strong prediction is that relaxing contact restriction will increase hospitalizations and deaths. We are seeing that in France and Spain now and will see it in the UK in a few weeks time.
Forget cases - testing is helpful for local identification of force of infection and heads hospitalizations by a week. But the ramping up (or not) makes identification of a useful denominator challenging.
[TL:DR] Sunetra Gupta has long been wedded to us having immunity. Give it two weeks to watch hospital admissions rise and invite her back for comment.
hancock just started his special announcement in the Commons - 5live now.
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/uk-world-news/boris-johnson-could-order-two-4523293
Not sure there is any truth in that article, but I kinda hope there is and such things are being discussed.
Sunetra Gupta, she has been on a few shows in the last week, it isn’t an unreasonable viewpoint to offer if you can offer if you can clearly outline the full impact of the consquences and how that balances with the other costs we might land up paying but she seems to just make it sound like it will be abit inconvienent but life goes on
Attitudes in India towards the value of life are different and lockdown has hit the poorest there even harder than here - meaning that the lives of much of the lower castes who were already living in squalor are now a living hell. I have yet to be convinced by Guptas work in the context of the UK, so I can only think that because countries like India have coped with some arguably far greater health issues and have carried on regardless in the past, that she has a cognitive bias/blind spot when it comes to Covid in the UK - she also might have a point.
hancock just started his special announcement in the Commons – 5live now.
He is just a propoganda machine at this point, the tests work, the labs work, the booking system works, its world beating, we have record capacity, claims to the contrary wrong and unhelpful. The only problem is people getting tests who don't need them.
Waiting for the more granular local data later on today - my local area apparently going to shite alongside Harrogate and Selby in North Yorks. As a shielder, considering my options now in terms of sending my kids to school for the next couple of weeks to give the government the chance to catch up again.
Update from my barber shop for those interested. Well over 50%, maybe 75% favour just getting on with it and letting whatever deaths occur just happen.
By definition the people going to the barbers are probably less risk averse. If you asked the same question to the people who are still cutting their own hair at home I suspect you’d get different answers.
claims to the contrary wrong and unhelpful
He very careful used the words “divisive” and unhelpful… he can’t say the claims are wrong… as Cummings and Johnson could pivot at any point and except the claims and right… leaving him looking silly yet again.
> double post <
Thats a good point Mudmuncher and barber shops are doing less business so there are plenty of them.
Managed to get a test today in Newtown Wales, 30 miles away, have been and done the test. Pretty uneventful in the end, hopefully find out tomorrow if I'm a plague bearer.
Right back in early March I thought through the options. I thought there were only 3:
1: Harsh lockdown, Chinese style, drive the virus out of business but also much of your economy
2: Boris' 'Take it on the chin' and let the vulnerable die
3: Radically re-think society and business so that it could still work in a post-COVID world
I really hoped that the shock would be severe enough that we'd choose 3, but guess which one I thought most likely? And which one have we got, despite what the government claims?
hancock just started his special announcement in the Commons – 5live now.
He is just a propoganda machine at this point, the tests work, the labs work, the booking system works, its world beating, we have record capacity, claims to the contrary wrong and unhelpful. The only problem is people getting tests who don’t need them.
Propaganda will convince some of the people some/all of the time.
hancock's emissions don't convince anyone - the gov, NHS, general public; I doubt he believes the words he's being forced to utter.
Stop your carping - time to praise the governments efforts!
Says the Moggster.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54194333
Anyone left willing to vote for these ****ers?
So, has Dido Harding just admitted she's ****ed up her current job just like she did the last one? My god, apparently "nobody knew we'd need this many tests", What the actual f...
A testing site where there are no tests available...
https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2020/09/deserted-covid-19-testing-centre-as-test-shortage-continues/
Replicated across the country, I'm sure.
Have invited my (tory) MP to comment; caroline johnson, a hospital consultant, is well known for toeing the party line regardless of the facts
They better not start sending Covid patients into homes. MIL's nursing home lost quite a few residents. We're still on restricted visiting once a week from the car park.
The only possible good outcome now is that enough Tory voters realise what an incompetent shambles they've elected. They've ****ed up Covid, they're ****ing up Brexit, as a result they've ****ed the economy.
If herd immunity is the solution what's the problem?
Just watched the Channel 4 news report, where its petty obvious care homes might be pursued intro taking in KNOWN Covid patients.
That must be terrifying to hear for anyone who has loved ones in homes. My heart goes out to them and hopefully the bad press from this might stop it.
That's how care homes were treated in round 1....
The only possible good outcome now is that enough Tory voters realise what an incompetent shambles they’ve elected. They’ve * up Covid, they’re * up Brexit, as a result they’ve **** the economy.
Very much doubt that. Boris will trot out some slogan like hands, face, space, oven ready or even get brexit done and they will fall for it again. After that they will just say oh well Corbyn couldn't have done better despite him not even being the party leader any more.
If herd immunity is the solution what’s the problem?
Collateral damage?
Stop your carping – time to praise the governments efforts!
Says the Moggster.
I thought there were reports he'd caught covid. Looks like he's going to be even more insufferable out the other side.
If herd immunity is the solution what’s the problem?
That probably requires a vaccine, one that either has proven longevity, or can be topped up. This is a virus where herd immunity may not be obtainable by letting it rip through the community, even if we were to accept the deaths and damaged lives that would cause. Herd immunity by exposure to the virus would not just be horribly costly, at this stage it is purely theoretical. We haven’t lived with it long enough to know if immunity after exposure is long lasting.
The solution is to defer morbidity until a valid method of protection (other than infection) is available to the most vulnerable. At the moment the only intervention available is contact restriction.
Some testing may be possible to help with targeting this intervention. But as the media shows, everyone “needs” a test. In fact systematic testing of those most likely to spread should be the first action.
In time, vaccination or passive antibody vaccination may provide a route for protection. Lilly reported some positive data on their antibody on Monday preventing hospitalisation of mild infections from 6% to 1.6%. A big effect but low actual numbers of patients. Early days but going the right way.
Forget cases. Hospital admissions are climbing and deaths will follow. When treatments come the rates will slow. Dexamethasone will help decouple admissions and deaths. Remdesivir May too (I’m skeptical).
My best case scenario is an annual vaccination by mid 2021, and if that fails to materialise, then six monthly antibody protection by the end of 2021 for the most vulnerable. I’m not optimistic for the current vaccine candidates. That’s based more on past precedence than hard science. But some convalescent plasma trials have failed recently, which does not bode well for the field.
[TL:DR]. Aim is to prevent morbidity in the vulnerable by all available means. Protection will come but not till mid or late 2021. Keep your hands inside the car at all times please. Test if you want to go faster.
SAGE modellers screwed the pooch again. Spent all summer telling us the virus was under control, we had to prepare for winter. Harding may be shit at her job but she was told to ramp up testing for winter. We’re barely halfway through September.
I see the hapless and hopeless zahawi has been wheeled out on QT to represent the clown circus.
Waffle, refusal to answer a direct question - ah, er, um, well; bullshit.
'Working to make the system even better...' WTF? That clearly implies the 'system' is doing well.
It would be more informative if the BBC used a nodding donkey instead of inviting the tories to put up a stooge.
zahawi has clearly been infected by johnson's verbal mannerisms - once he gets going it's like being power sprayed with bullshit.
sunetra gupta's comments bear no relation to reality; herd immunity all round chaps!
cauldwell loves the sound of his own voice; a very successful mobile phone salesman who knows nothing about virology, epidemiology, healthcare is given a platform to pontificate. Not a shred of common sense or logic from him.
Harding may be shit at her job but she was told to ramp up testing for winter.
Her agencies (ha!) haven’t hit the testing promised in April yet!
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1245820428020584450?s=20
Estimates are that we’re testing less than 100,000 people a day now, six months later (ignore all the capacity nonsense, that keeps recounting tests never ever posted out).
Testing should have been ramping up over the summer to enable the return to schools, unis and the workplace… the government said it would be required, as would track/trace and a ‘vital’ contact app.
Nursing and care home and NHS staff still don’t have the access to testing they’ve been asking for. How were eduction and other staff supposed to be supported by testing when the health staff are still not being catered for?
I’ve said it before, but there is no evidence of herd immunity, and worse, a resurgence of new hospitalisations and deaths would refute that hypothesis for good. An obvious point, but an SEIR model has a symmetric curve for infections and deaths. Data does not.
As for modelling the need for tests. Suffice to say, I made a suggestion on testing. I did not provide capacity, but I did give a strategy for priority that one could work from to estimate capacity (starting with healthcare workers and nursing homes and moving to schools). I’m afraid that blanket mass testing is not the answer.
For any anti-mask, covid conpiracists...
https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1306678487386918912?s=20
Just watched the Channel 4 news report, where its petty obvious care homes might be pursued intro taking in KNOWN Covid patients
IMO this is what the fabled Nightingale Hospitals could usefully do. There clearly aren't any spare NHS staff to run them as the govt originally pretended but they probably could house "fit for discharge" virus-positive patients until they can get a couple of negatives under their belts and then go to proper homes
Regarding the testing, I think they need to update the guidance a bit on when symptoms need testing. For the three coughing episodes, there is no explanation of what an episode is, is it a couple of coughs or coughing repeatedly for e.g 1 minute? Is it a dry or productive cough?
My wife saw a thing (from a doctor involved in the symptom tracking app) saying that if you have a blocked nose/sneezing you don’t have Covid, even if you have a bit of a cough. If that’s the case it would probably stop most schoolchildren with coughs needing to get tested/ isolate. Then again I guess if you relax guidance it will just push up transmission.
I also wonder if much less people will bother getting tested at the next round of coughs and colds? Everyone is probably very cautious now but seeing as you probably get a cough/cold every six weeks in winter unless they sort it so people can get a test locally and get the test back within 24hrs people will give up
I think they need to update the guidance a bit on when symptoms need testing. For the three coughing episodes, there is no explanation of what an episode is, is it a couple of coughs or coughing repeatedly for e.g 1 minute? Is it a dry or productive cough?
My wife saw a thing (from a doctor involved in the symptom tracking app) saying that if you have a blocked nose/sneezing you don’t have Covid, even if you have a bit of a cough. If that’s the case it would probably stop most schoolchildren with coughs needing to get tested/ isolate
100% agreed, the failure of our .gov to communicate effectively and provide information is huge. It could even be multi layered. If you have a cough dont go to school or work. If you have a dry persistent cough, get tested. That wouldnt be a hard message to get out.
Regarding the testing, I think they need to update the guidance a bit on when symptoms need testing.
That won't help when people who don't need one are trying to get one.
On BBC morning news a couple of days ago, 2 people were interviewed outside a walk in centre when the story was about lack of tests.
1. I've come back from Spain, I just want the family to get a test to check we're all OK so we can carry on with our lives we just want peace of mind.
2. Someone at work has tested positive so my boss told me I can't come back to work till I get a negative test.
Both admitted they had no sign of any symptoms and felt perfectly alright.
I know its only 2 examples but there's been more in other interviews. People are admitting on national TV of either breaking quarantine rules and or getting a test when they shouldn't.
There was another example yesterday where a mum had a cough, she wanted to book a test online, her employment status was unemployed so got rejected due to priorities. She admitted to selecting key worker as employment type and it allowed her to get a test. She was questioned "Do you feel bad about taking a key workers test?". The response was no, "I'm a single mum I need to keep my family safe" FFS you're unemployed you can do two weeks isolation as a family no issues. Getting a test doesnt make you suddenly safer it just provides you with knowledge of having it.
That's what the system is also having to contend with.
@a_a - Yes, or a really basic flow chart using type of cough, temperature, blocked nose etc. They must have enough data by now to develop something.
It doesn’t excuse the governments complete lack of preparedness on the testing front but would at least enable a more streamlined approach and help till they finally build capacity
That won’t help when people who don’t need one are trying to get one.
While we’re only testing people with symptoms, we’re not going to stop this spreading with everything open. To still be officially offering tests to symptomatic people only means that realistically we need far more people isolating after contact with people who have tested positive. We can’t have it both ways… trying to keep schools, workplaces, bars, restaurants, care homes and hospitals… just about everything open… and not offer testing to close contacts of positive people. We can’t have track, trace and do nothing. Isolation (with support for both employees and businesses) or (negative) testing should follow.
Kelvin the system is not designed to test everyone.
Its quite clear, only get a test if you have symptoms or self isolate if you have known contact but no symptoms.
I agree with you that to keep everything ticking over you'd need more testing e.g. the moonshot plan but that's not feasible right now nor is it the current T&Ts goal.
So based on the leaks, I'm expecting a 2 week national lockdown to coincide with October half term.
If the situation hasn't already escalated to a bigger lockdown before then. Mid October does feel optimistic.
Kelvin the system is not designed to test everyone.
Yes, I know. But it was sold to the public as part of a raft of measures that allowed us to open up, and for people not to need support to isolate or social distance. That some seek to use it that way is the fault of the government. We need to support people and companies where there has been a positive case to isolate/close. And then… education… it is time to reset the government spin about getting back to normal, and use rotas and social distancing to stop the spread. Our testing system (as it is, not as it was promised) will not stop the spread, our actions will.
So based on the information from Dominic Cummings
FTFY
If the situation hasn’t already escalated to a bigger lockdown before then
I'm a bit bemused by the reaction TBH. With news of the NHS about to fail, soaring numbers and pending lockdowns, why is this seemingly a bigger deal that the initial spike? We went into that even less prepared than we are now and the NHS coped, masks and PPE eventually arrived, people got educated, and the number dropped to small amounts.
Today, despite the press/government failings we have the education and at least some preparedness and surely are at a far greater advantage than March of this year?
Matt Hancock is back on the radio using the “Covid Secure” phrase about education again.
Oh, and giggle about the testing problem being because tests are free.
Regards testing for kids
The government's app data shows that children have a completely different mix of symptoms from adults
top five symptoms in school aged children who test positive for COVID are; fatigue (55%) headache (53%), fever (49%), sore throat (38%) and loss of appetite (35%).
This was different compared to the App’s data on adults; fatigue (87%), headache (72%), loss of smell (60%), persistent cough (54%) and sore throat (49%).
In addition to this, research from the app has also found that one in six (15%) children who test positive for COVID also present with an unusual skin rash.
A cough is way down the list of kids symptoms, but it's driving a lot of the test demand as that what the government say is a symptom
I see the hapless and hopeless zahawi has been wheeled out on QT to represent the clown circus.
At least Fiona Bruce refused to let him get away with constantly repeating his 250,000 tests a day bullshit, pointing out that while that may be some theoretical capacity, due to the utter shambles of its point-of-delivery there are actually nowhere near that amount of people being tested, so just stop saying it.
I've reached the point now where I don't think Matt Hancock is lying. I think he's actually existing in some weird sort of alternative reality. A waking fantasy where everything is going really well
When you say school aged is that up to 18? Are we saying an 18 year olds symptoms are different from adults?
Blaming poarents for looking out for coughs and fevers is not fair. .gov should be able to come up with proper advice and crucially have enough testing available testing for that advice. Currently the advice is muddled and the testing availability doesnt match up to that muddled advice.
That some seek to use it that way is the fault of the government. We need to support people and companies where there has been a positive case to isolate/close. And then… education… it is time to reset the government spin about getting back to normal, and use rotas and social distancing to stop the spread. Our testing system (as it is, not as it was promised) will not stop the spread, our actions will.
I know a vote of no confidence in the government will fail, but some discussion around that, and asking MPs to justify voting to support this utter shambles might be interesting.
Today, despite the press/government failings we have the education and at least some preparedness and surely are at a far greater advantage than March of this year?
I think you're probably right. Ignore the top layer of the Muppet show and thousands of public services employees and private businesses have been lining up preparation and planning for round 2.
In Scotland we have a fairly clear middle of October through to December as peak to plan for, a message coming down from government.
My worry is a combination of a peak worse than round 1 and the top layer of Muppets having diverted funds into dead ends and poorly performing projects (see the testing failures for an example). The nurse in the ward, teacher in school or council waste manager (etc) can't work with what they don't have.
Ignore the top layer of the Muppet show
Sadly, it's the top layer of the Muppet show which decides the timing and extent of measures, which means it will get pulled kicking and screaming into a lockdown about two weeks too late. I have no doubt that the NHS and other public authorities are better prepared, but the country is also much better seeded with the virus than in March. It remained endemic in large parts of the north of England because lockdown was eased as soon as the south was ready.
Symbolic half-measures like closing pubs a whole hour earlier and describing this as a meaningful restriction suggest to me that this is a government which wants to do the bare minimum to protect the vulnerable.
It remained endemic in large parts of the north of England because lockdown was eased as soon as the south was ready.
And the government were being told this loud and clear by the leaders of northern councils at the time, but chose to ignore them.
Worrying, very worrying, and we all saw this coming.
When you say all, Dido Harding didnt. But anyway...
Matt Hancock is back on the radio using the “Covid Secure” phrase about education again.
Circuit breakers seem to be the thing today. We may be world leading on buzz words but they might be one analogy out her. What we are really looking for is a fire breaks and fire suppression but that wouldn't be jolly and might indicate the potential scale of the looming problems.
Interesting seeing Matty boy this morning - I thought the local authorities had ask for extra measures rather than a decisive intervention on his part.
My wife saw a thing (from a doctor involved in the symptom tracking app) saying that if you have a blocked nose/sneezing you don’t have Covid, even if you have a bit of a cough. If that’s the case it would probably stop most schoolchildren with coughs needing to get tested/ isolate. Then again I guess if you relax guidance it will just push up transmission.
This sounds like BS to me.
Unless I'm mistaken then having Covid doesn't prevent hay fever or catching another virus.
I am no expert but I assume the easing of the lockdown (informed by low case numbers in the south) was at a time when numbers weren't low enough in the north. The virus has therefore had a greater base from which to spread and hence we aren't seeing peaks in the south yet - although surely they will follow. Clearly, the voices of Burnham and other mayors weren't enough to influence Gov sufficiently then and aren't now. If Eric Pickles hadn't binned off the Regional Assemblies, things might have been different.
Today, despite the press/government failings we have the education and at least some preparedness
I think this is the important point. Also it is worth pointing out that despite public perceptions to the contrary, I am sure that a huge effort is being put into developing testing capacity by people working 16-hour days. The fact is capacity grows linearly but demand blows up a lot faster. Doubling capacity takes months. Doubling demand takes about a fortnight!
Clarity of decision and its communication would be more helpful. Schools are off for at least a week at the end of October. This will reduce transmission between households. If we can reduce transmission further during that period by limiting other contacts, it will buy some time up to Christmas. Time bought now is fewer total deaths come mid 2021, when the cavalry (may) arrive in the form of vaccines, protective treatments and targeted testing. That should be the message. You read it here first 😉
At least they said education and businesses is a priority. That's an advance.
1. I’ve come back from Spain, I just want the family to get a test to check we’re all OK so we can carry on with our lives we just want peace of mind.
2. Someone at work has tested positive so my boss told me I can’t come back to work till I get a negative test.
Both admitted they had no sign of any symptoms and felt perfectly alright.
I know its only 2 examples but there’s been more in other interviews. People are admitting on national TV of either breaking quarantine rules and or getting a test when they shouldn’t.
There was another example yesterday where a mum had a cough, she wanted to book a test online, her employment status was unemployed so got rejected due to priorities. She admitted to selecting key worker as employment type and it allowed her to get a test. She was questioned “Do you feel bad about taking a key workers test?”. The response was no, “I’m a single mum I need to keep my family safe” FFS you’re unemployed you can do two weeks isolation as a family no issues. Getting a test doesnt make you suddenly safer it just provides you with knowledge of having it.
That’s what the system is also having to contend with.
First example I agree, that's not a need. Second one, the guy can't work until he's tested - sounds like a need to me. Third one, she has symptoms so should be able to get a test. Maybe she's bubbled with elderly parents?
My wife saw a thing (from a doctor involved in the symptom tracking app) saying that if you have a blocked nose/sneezing you don’t have Covid, even if you have a bit of a cough. If that’s the case it would probably stop most schoolchildren with coughs needing to get tested/ isolate. Then again I guess if you relax guidance it will just push up transmission.
I expect it was this from Tim Spector:
https://twitter.com/timspector/status/1306631026228236291
saying that if you have a blocked nose/sneezing you don’t have Covid
WHO: "The most common symptoms of COVID-19 are fever, tiredness, and dry cough. Some patients may have aches and pains, nasal congestion, runny nose, or sore throat."
You can't use block/runny nose as a way of detecting Covid-19... but it is not true that if you have those symptoms that you do to have it... especially true of children, looking at more recent studies of symptoms presented.
Second one, the guy can’t work until he’s tested – sounds like a need to me
Sounds like paying £100 for a private test would be good value? Which is not to say that the current situation is anything but shambolic.
I am sure that a huge effort is being put into developing testing capacity by people working 16-hour days.
Mostly Serco working 16 hour days counting their money. If they were looking for good will, they would be transparent about their true capabilities and share data with the (real) NHS.
My information sources are the WHO, NHS and Government guidance, not some random quack on Twitter.
Took my wife daughter to a test centre yesterday. The people running it seem genuinely surprised that they were coughing so much and were much more visibly ill than anybody else there. Lots of people going who don't appear to have symptoms.
As for the schools, bubbles are a joke - the year groups might be separated but you could easily get transmission between siblings then between year groups.
Took my wife daughter to a test centre yesterday
Your Wife Daughter? You are from the Forest of Dean and your wife/daughter/mother are less then 3 people and I claim my £5.00
My information sources are the WHO, NHS and Government guidance, not some random quack on Twitter.
You mean the random quack who is running a massive citizen science project that led to the confirmation of loss of taste/smell as a symptom of Covid. Yeah, what do they know.
A slight diversion - I’ve seen a few people (waiters) using a sort of lower face visor covering mouth and chin rather than a cloth mask. Can’t help thinking that they’re not going to be as effective at preventing spread of virus?
@greentricky - that was the name.
The thing I took from that video is that the cough has to be persistant not episodic - so my reading is that the sort of occasional couple of coughs you have when you have a cold that is basically to clear phlegm should't be considered a reason to get a test or isolate.
*If* I've understood him correctly, and if that is what all the data says, then its something that can be easily explained to reduce burden on the testing.
He still says you should stay home until you feel better with a cold which i guess would also mean even if you did have covid you would be away from people when you are most infectious
Issue is our daughters school is sending anyone with a sniffle home. My work likewise. Only path to avoiding 14 to 21 days at home is a test. Hence mad clamour.
Correcting my own post:
You can’t use block/runny nose as a way of detecting Covid-19… but it is not true that if you have those symptoms then you do not have it… especially true of children, looking at more recent studies of symptoms presented.
News is reporting a "short circuit" semi-lockdown is being mooted - e.g. go to school, essential work travel and essential travel only otherwise stay at home.
Kelvin
Correcting my own post
That's what I said earlier but it's symptomatic (pun intended) of the way information is being manipulated.
Words like "safe" or even the definitions are being used misleadingly.
If they define COVID-19 as a set of symptoms (which is technically what it is) caused by a virus they can make it whatever they want and that sensu strictu has no connection to carrying the Novel Corona Virus.
It's akin if you will to saying someone with HIV doesn't have AIDS.
News is reporting a “short circuit” semi-lockdown is being mooted – e.g. go to school, essential work travel and essential travel only otherwise stay at home.
*Runs off to buy tonnes of booze and bog roll*
News is reporting a “short circuit” semi-lockdown is being mooted – e.g. go to school, essential work travel and essential travel only otherwise stay at home.
That's not quite what I've read about the 'short circuit' - eg from Sky
Government figures stressed the plans being drawn up stopped short of a full national lockdown, as seen in the spring, when the country was told to "stay at home".
Proposals being worked up for such a "circuit break" could see essential travel to schools and workplaces continuing, but restaurants and bars would shut - or perhaps run on restricted hours - and different households would be asked not to mix.
The restrictions could be put in place for two weeks, but the timing and duration of the measures has yet to be finalised.
We clearly need more input to understand this short circuit plan.
It'd better not be another lockdown - I'm due to be going away next week on a trip I had to postpone from April.
There will be a second full lockdown, it's inevitable. Humans are biased towards optimism so they're going to try a limited lockdown (which won't work because it will be too convoluted) before a full lockdown. The situation will of course, naturally balloon out of control like it is doing so on the continent.
I guarantee that in about 6 months we'll find out that Chris Whitty was sending pissed off emails around this time calling for a full lockdown.
@Nick C, thank you pointing out my typing error, should have said wife AND daughter. Luckily I'm not from the Forest of dean so I'm keeping my £5.00 🙂