Keep kicking, I'm watching...
What selfishness of people to exaggerate a risk such as this for a selfish last hurrah, and how irresponsible of the
landlordGovernment.FTFY
<Yawn>
OK - WWSTWD ..
MissJ lives alone in a rented room in a house with strangers. Her place of work has closed down for the foreseeable. She hasn't asked to move in with us, but she might
Should we ..
a) Tell her to tough it out
b) Tell her to tough it out for 5-7 days and then come to us
c) Tell her it's OK to come to us but she has to be as alone as possible for 5-7 days
d) Just tell her to come home - it's family ferchrissakes
Answers, pitchforks, thoughts ...
I am glad to announce that ordering a takeaway is now to be known as ‘supporting the local economy at this difficult time’
50% off Papa Johns via Paypal this weekend.
Davous pleas don’t lower the thread with personal insults. Thanks.
can you make a special place for the trolls like bikebuoy to go and argue with each other then? another forum I used to be on had a section for people to argue, you needed 50 posts or more to enter it to stop people coming back under new names, it worked quite well. Everything here just gets turned into bickering by the same few people.
@DrJ so long as you're not at risk letting her come home shouldn't be an issue. Take sensible precautions for the week after. If that's not possible then there's your answer.
+1 Bigjim
The episode has highlighted to me like a smack in the face how selfish people have become. To illustrate that further, my wife had cause to go to a chemist last night – on her own, in the car. One of the high streets three pubs was open, rammed to the rafters, steamed windows and people spilling onto the street. What selfishness of people to exaggerate a risk such as this for a selfish last hurrah, and how irresponsible of the landlord.
Several causes behind it though.
First is undoubtedly that people are ****ing stupid but the advice they've been given and the leadership they've been shown is flaky at best. Advice from "it's not really anything to worry about" to "we want people to catch it to get herd immunity" to "some of you are going to die but it'll be old people anyway" to "oh shit, we might actually be in trouble here." Combine that with the lies of the last 4 years and the media spin on everything and it's not really any wonder that people don't believe anything they hear.
Second is "it's just a cough", "it's just the flu". If it was an illness with a 10% mortality rate and definitive symptoms, people would probably be more inclined to a) believe it's serious and b) take the preventative measures they were told to. But plenty of people have "just a cough" and think nothing of it so that's what they're carrying on with. By the time it is something serious, they've already infected hundreds of others.
And third is that pubs have a shedload of stock which they face either binning and losing or they could sell it in one final blow-out weekend. Given the massive uncertainty they now face in if/when they could ever open again and what (if any) compensation they're going to get, the landlord will be trying to make a final bit of money.
But mostly ****tery. There's a lot of it about these days. It'll be like the Brexit vote all over again: "Oh but I didn't think it would really happen" / "Oh but I didn't think it would affect ME"...
But mostly ****tery. There’s a lot of it about these days. It’ll be like the Brexit vote all over again: “Oh but I didn’t think it would really happen” / “Oh but I didn’t think it would affect ME”…
"It's China's fault"
trolls like bikebuoy
Not trolling.
Happy for you to find your own thread/forum though.
I've said before, the evidence I posted suggests people think its just a bit of flu, work colleagues think that, the queues at B&Q think that, the workers on the M27 think that, the queues in the Garden Center this morning think that too.
People still huddling around each other, oldies and kids in same groups.
And for the vast majority of the UK population it will have NO effect other than we carry it. At best for the vast majority of people they will get flu like symptoms.. Thats been very well publicised.
So, clearly not trolling.
Not bothered what you lot think, some of you ought to heed the social distancing mantra and apply it to social media distancing.
could’ve saved yourself a lot of waffle & just written that 😂But mostly ****tery.
I’ve said before, the evidence I posted suggests people think its just a bit of flu, work colleagues think that, the queues at B&Q think that, the workers on the M27 think that, the queues in the Garden Center this morning think that too.
That part is true - people do think that.
But this:
people without symptoms are just getting on with life. And rightly too.
is plainly wrong. You must know it's not right, so why post it, if not for the sake of trolling?
Surely hairdressers and beauticians have to be on the closed list?...
DrJ - home with you, try to isolate in the house for a week. Keeping her away for another week changes nothing. I think the risk of her bringing CV to you is lower than the risk of her getting it the more time she spends in a shared house.
WWSTD? Mrs Pondo is scheduled to make tiramisu for her mum for mother's day - Mrs Pondo is a teacher, her mum's in her seventies, has recent history of cardiac problems and a persistent cough. Is there a way we can make pudding delivery safe?
Surely hairdressers and beauticians have to be on the closed list?…
All the ones in my high street have never been busier! Seems to be that as everyone is WFH, they've all decided to go and get their hair and nails done.
And for the vast majority of the UK population it will have NO effect other than we carry it. At best for the vast majority of people they will get flu like symptoms.. Thats been very well publicised.
Yes, but what you are missing is that even though that is the case it still means large numbers of people will die. Have you missed the scenes in Lombardy or do you think its just the eyties being typically melodramtic? Even amongst the very low risk groups there will be significant mortality. At a 0.2% mortality rate for 20yr olds at an infection rate of 60% I reckon that is still about 5000+ of them dying (& the mortality rate goes up if the ICU capacity is overwhelmed.) You seem incapable of understanding that a tiny percentage of an extremely large number is a lot of dead people.
And for the vast majority of the UK population it will have NO effect other than we carry it. At best for the vast majority of people they will get flu like symptoms.. Thats been very well publicised.
Ah yes the selfish and self entitled
I guess it's a case of do you feel lucky punk. Because as well as wiping out folk you love it's perfectly plausible it will wipe you out as well even if you are young and healthy when you cannot access a ventilator.
You seem incapable of understanding that a tiny percentage of an extremely large number is a lot of dead people.
Or just doesn't care, as long as it is not him.
Or just doesn’t care, as long as it is not him.
And lives in the ignorance that it could quite easily be him.
Yes the odds are in his favour but they are far from nil - especially as demand on ventilators rises.
He should read up on what novel virus' are, where they come from and why they are hard to treat.
@bikebouy and the other ignorant selfish people who believe it won’t impact them please listen to this humbling account from an A&E doc on what awaits us ....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0877mb2
The last posts are what is doing my head in.
the thought that people are going to be fine because by stats they shouldn't get it or have symptoms.
trouble is they might and anyone going into hospital to go on a ventilator is taking a chance I wouldn't wish on anyone.
plus any extra infection increases the chance of spread.
Anyone else struggling with teenagers unable or unwilling to understand what's going on? I've now had several heated discussions with my 15 year old daugher about whether she should be allowed to meet up with her mates. We've tried the approach of letting her see her mates outside under instructions to keep their distance from each other but then watched as they carried on as normal. Now I'm at the point of losing my temper with her. She basically thinks her social life is more important than people's lives. Also discussed it with the other parents on whatsapp and they don't seem to get it either. Lots of 'but it's going to be so hard for them', and 'it's not their fault, let's go easy on them', which is all true, but still no excuse for them not to play their part.
Surely Bikebouy is a troll. No one can be that ignorant given the amount of information and evidence out there. Can they?
Kust drobe from Newbury into London to drop food for two isolators. Number of things struck me; lots of large groups of cyclists around Richmond park area, ****s just ride on your own or with familly, also almost every other person out and about seemed to be 70+, just stay the **** in the house. Had to stop for a piss at services, why are greggs and costa open and why does the services look like something from Shaun of the dead with a load of confused looking pensioners shuffling about?
Ah yes because wartime spirit.
So long as they understand not to expect a ventilator when they NHS implements priority.
@dazh - it's simple, her actions could possibly lead to the premature death of an elderly relative (hers or her friends). Take her phone, tablet etc. off her.
@bikebouy - you're being a dick and you know you are. It's not intelligent, funny or Poe's Law. It's dick behaviour. You're the social media equivalent of a hoarding panic buyer
@Mods - have a word, he's spreading misinformation.
Take her phone, tablet etc. off her.
Do the exact opposite of this!
Social contact with friends is essential. Plenty of tools for doing so without meeting in person. Encourage her to do use them as much as she wants.
Seem like those of us who were alarmed at the response of the govt were on the right track.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/10-days-that-changed-britains-coronavirus-approach
Do the exact opposite of this!
I will not be taking her phone off her. I might have to lock her in the house though. Bloody nightmare.
Costa have announced they will remain open doing takeaway only with free drinks for NHS staff for the next two weeks.
Think this has backfired already as the Costa at my hospital today had a huge queue and it looks like they had to draft in extra staff to cope!!
Surely duty of care to fellow humans should be the over riding position to all of this.
There is so much we don't know yet, but we do know it kill lots of people. Why would you risk spreading something that does that? I don't understand.
Good luck with that Daz!
Lock in will cause you serious issues long term (I suspect you’re at least half joking though). Half an hour getting her to watch advice and pleas from health service staff in Lombardy & Madrid might be more productive.
My son’s friends don’t get it yet at all, but he does, he has to with his condition. FaceTime and Google hangouts in regular use.
Be patient with people, teens or not, that don’t get this yet. The government completely messed up the messaging last week/weekend, and it’ll take a while/lot for the late (but correct) response from government this week to counteract that. Lots of reinforcement of the distancing message next week should be forthcoming from official sources, and more people will start to get what needs doing and why.
I’ve said before, the evidence I posted suggests people think its just a bit of flu, work colleagues think that, the queues at B&Q think that, the workers on the M27 think that, the queues in the Garden Center this morning think that too.
BB completely agree with this sentiment. But when you compound that ignorance with the greater misunderstanding of geometric not linear processes, and the duration of infection requiring critical care (typically 7-14d for those in need), we are destined for a challenging time. As of today, UK deaths are doubling every 1.7 days (95% CI 1.7,2.2). This is to be compared with every other country rebased to the same point, where they doubled every 3.0 days (95% CI 2.8,3.2). The UK is a statistically significant outlier in the wrong direction.
Please isolate.
TiRed: pointless attempting to explain , he’s not going to change his mind now as that would imply his original course of reasoning was utter batshit crazy and irresponsible. Poo wee lad is now backed into a corner by scientific arguments yet he’s still swinging his bruised ego around
it's not just teenagers dazh, just having the same arguement with my 81 yo mother (hers is the fatalistic approach of "oh if i get i get it").
"The UK is a statistically significant outlier in the wrong direction"
Yes - we are in for one hell of a walloping and people won't realise until its too late. We should have started a lockdown 3 weeks ago and by now it should be socially unacceptable to be outside your house unless you have a valid reason or you are clearly so far away from anyone else that it would be impossible to pass on the virus.
Thats a plot not an an analysis. I analyse cases and deaths and look at the ratio (case fatality rate). Also the analysis will be sensitive to the number of cases or deaths the graph is rebased to in the early stage of epidemic growth.
Think this has backfired already as the Costa at my hospital today had a huge queue and it looks like they had to draft in extra staff to cope!!
The law of unintended consequences is coming into play. In the parallel universe of foot and mouth - this is the contractor period. There is a general handle on what is going on, we're still free styling it. Much good will be done, there will be gaffs that exacerbate the situation. We're all going to stuff up at some point during this thin. It's just trying not to do it spectacularly. New and interesting mistakes ok - hopefully small ones. Repeating the same ones is bad. We're all only human..
...unless this is some cover for an alien take over from that deep space object last year. Virus and conspiracy - that's both criteria met for being on topic for the day.
And for the vast majority of the UK population it will have NO effect other than we carry it.
Whilst this may be true, they are then carriers, and for a couple of weeks probably asymptomatic, contagious carriers who don't realise they have it. Carriers who could then carry it to - say, as a totally random example, my mother - who is knocking on a bit, recovering from a stroke and double kidney failure, is on so much different medication that I'm amazed she doesn't rattle, and a stubborn old goat who sees concepts like "staying in" and "accepting help" as giving in to being ill and losing her independence. And I expect that she's far from alone in this especially amongst her age group.
The "fear mongering" would absolutely be excessive but for this minor inconvenience. Like the majority of people, if I get it I'll probably (hopefully) have "a bit of flu" for a few days. But if my mum gets it it stands a very real chance of finishing her off. If that's fear mongering then, well, it's because I'm bloody well afeared.
The law of unintended consequences is coming into play. In the parallel universe of foot and mouth – this is the contractor period. There is a general handle on what is going on, we’re still free styling it. Much good will be done, there will be gaffs that exacerbate the situation. We’re all going to stuff up at some point during this thin. It’s just trying not to do it spectacularly. New and interesting mistakes ok – hopefully small ones. Repeating the same ones is bad. We’re all only human..
Lyme Park, the big National Trust place near Stockport - that closed all its car parks, cafe, house etc on Friday but the grounds remain open for pedestrians because getting outside is good.
So now the pavements and cycle lane all along the main road are absolutely full of selfish ****s who've driven out there and parked as near to the gates as possible causing traffic chaos. As you say, unintended consequences.
Unrelated, I've just spoken to my Mum and she seems quite confused by it all now. She's in her early 70's (but otherwise in generally good health) but not sure if shes allowed to leave the house or be isolated. Shops near her are all offering special opening for older people so she's like "well if they're offering that, maybe I am allowed out...?"
That said, she made the mistake of going to one of the first "special hours" and it was like a war zone and she got very distressed by it all. She's OK for food and things at the moment but I doubt it's a good idea for me to go and stay / help because I could be asymptomatic but she could easily be badly affected if she got it. So neither me nor my sister can go and visit her - just feel a bit powerless.
dazh - I'm breaking my self-imposed purdah from this thread as your teen daughter doesn't want to listen.
This article might help her to understand how the virus spreads and how it attacks the human body; sure, it takes a very pessimistic view but it may cause her to stop & think.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/the-story-of-a-coronavirus-infection.html
A thought - given the obvious concerns about safe distancing recommendations being ignored by many people, what about 'approved people' broadcasting a standardised message by loudhailer in public places?
Approved people could be police or designated council employees; standardised message to be produced by gov.
Lyme Park, the big National Trust place near Stockport – that closed all its car parks, cafe, house etc on Friday but the grounds remain open for pedestrians because getting outside is good.
Corona and Lyme?
B'dum tish
Aye, put for a 5 mile run along the path through golf courses/dunes, it's bloody heaving, it's my usual quiet route....
As is town centre.
Lockdown needed.