Apparently so:
You see I’ve seen that and read that but not heard of anyone being sent a letter. Now, what there is are social media policies in trusts if people break these they may be warned that can happen anyway. Professional bodies even frown upon social media being used inappropriately, so are we being silenced? The answer is no.
So they half-arse it and the mixed messages get sent.
The message is clear it’s played almost every break between TV shows on pretty much every channel. Not sure why this keeps popping up on here and usually by the same people.
Anyway thanks for the support on my Gran.
Has anyone else noticed loads of pensioners out for long walks etc?
They’re allowed out.
at the very least a visit from the police would have sent out a clear and effective message.
She got a visit from the police.
Sorry to hear that Drac.
Went on my hours exercise ride jsut before lunch and I fear things are sliding quickly. I'm sticking to easy spins on the road so that I don't have to go through gates and to minimise any risk of stupid crashes. Seemed like a lot more traffic; also cars parked on verges (car-parks blocked) and walkers places I've not seen any since lock-down started.
The message is clear but people are ignoring it. Apparently big tailbacks on the M5 because of a crashed caravan!
Fingers crossed Drac, and also for everyone else with (or with friends / family with) symptoms.
xxx
Cheers guys.
BBC rumour mill:
A Home Office scientific adviser has told staff at Her Majesty's Passport Office that 80% of people will get Covid-19 and "we can't hide away from it forever" amid demands they return to work
Three bullet points below that quote is this one:
A study by communications regulator Ofcom has found 46% of internet-using adults in the UK have seen false or misleading information about the coronavirus
singletrackmind
Member
Dont asthmatics have stronger lung function due to pushing and pullimg past a restricted area
I wonder if this is a help when the lungs loose function and become saturated
Not any time I try to pedal uphill. gasping before I start
A study by communications regulator Inkster has found 100% of government information / advice to be false or misleading.
Thegreatape,
Glad she got a visit from the po-po but it's the first I've heard about it. Too little too late. Immediate sacking and broadcast footage of her being arrested or questioned would have done the trick.
I see Cornwall and Devon Police have had several posts on their Twitter page to be on the lookout for Mr. Johnson Snr. who has legged it to his 2nd home for the weekend.
Ruth Davidson has been visiting her Mum in the Borders too.
Inkster - it was all over the news at the time that she'd been spoken to by the Police. Even the Police publicly announced it.
The message is clear it’s played almost every break between TV shows on pretty much every channel. Not sure why this keeps popping up on here and usually by the same people.
Some people seem to want to seek out the negative
Immediate sacking and broadcast footage of her being arrested or questioned would have done the trick.
I actually thought the NZ PM handled her own little situation better, get yer job done, we'll deal with you later. Knee jerk reactions are not a benefit to anyone.
Ruth Davidson has been visiting her Mum in the Borders too.
Surely not the blessed Ruth?....
The message is clear it’s played almost every break between TV shows on pretty much every channel.
+1
"There's no such thing as society just individuals and their families."
More cash,
Fair enough, I didn't see that she was questioned by police at the time, maybe because I don't live in Scotland.
I did see quite a lot of news where Nicola Sturgeon was sticking up for her, so that might have drowned out the message that she had been spoken to by police.
It's that old chestnut about justice needing to be seen to be done. The overall message was too ambiguous. She's been a bit naughty but haven't we all sort of thing.
WTF
Seems like a pretty good way to fleece a bunch of idiots.
Queen Cindy is yet again giving the world a master class in leadership. I'm wishing I'd legged it back to NZ while I had the chance a few weeks ago.
WTF
Genuinely hope Darren and anyone else donating catch a mild dose
Are we having a sweep on which useless cockwomble will be wheeled out for todays press conference?
They surely can't have Patrick Bateman doing it again? The terror in his eyes is unsettling the nation. I'm waiting for an disembodied arm to flop out of a cupboard behind him at any moment
Wheres Priti? Surely she'd be ideal to sooth everyones concerns and give a general feeling of reassurance?
Fair enough, I didn’t see that she was questioned by police at the time, maybe because I don’t live in Scotland.
I don't live in Scotland either, but I try and read beyond the headlines.
New Zealand PM gas shown how it should have been done - you've been an idiot, I'll deal with you when this shit is over.
Out of breath,
I'd question the effectiveness of those public information bulletins. Especially as they seem to contradict the messages coming out from the government at press briefings. The adverts become pretty easy to ignore, they just come across as platitudes and they're clearly not working.
They remind me of those AIDS adverts in the 80's with the John Hurt voiceover, only much less effective. Or like a government health warning on a packet of cigarettes, or those reminders on gambling adds, 'remember to gamble responsibly folks!'
The government was offered free advertising space on Facebook weeks ago but they failed to take up the offer. Too little too late, closing the stable door after the horse has bolted sort of thing, only in this case the gov't failed to close the door even after the horse had bolted.
Wheres Priti?
Self-isolating because of a family member? Or not allowed out because the smirking and side-eye would have even Rees-Mogg doubting the government.
More cash,
No, the NZ gov't got it wrong as well. As I've mentioned before, my other half is in Kenya at the moment, a politician came back from Germany and gave the mandatory quarantine the slip, they caught up with him, put him in enforced 14 day quarantine then arrested him when he came out. Every Kenyan got the message.
The message the NZ gov't put out was you've been a naughty boy, didn't even put him on the naughty step, much less send him to bed without his dinner.
What do you mean you read beyond the headlines? Clever you. I stay pretty well informed as I'm sure you know but I missed this one. At times like this headlines are the most important thing, not the nuance or meta language. We need clear and effective messaging that reaches as much of the population as possible in the most unambiguous way.
Like I said earlier, it's about justice being seen to be done, rather than a lot of whataboutary. The NZ pm might have well have said, ' you've been an idiot, I'll deal with you when this shit is over / you're dead, or when someone else is dead because you've spread the virus.
People are dying because other people are spreading the virus through their selfish actions in case you hadn't noticed. Anyone in authority should be held to the highest standards imaginable at the moment, anything else is ambiguous messaging and an encouragement to others to act irresponsibly as well.
Sorry if I come over a bit harsh, nothing personal. Just speaking simple truths, not looking to make excuses for the poor behaviour of those in charge at the moment.
binners
Subscriber
Are we having a sweep on which useless cockwomble will be wheeled out for todays press conference?
its gotta be Marc Francois, only he has the patriotism & common sense to lead us through
and if anyone isnt following the plague diares of Mark ne-Francois-Pepys
you really should be
https://twitter.com/MarkFrancois12/status/1248128735750107138
anyone got stats for current hospital bed capacity, and icu capacity, and how much is used and is left at the moment?
Just curious so see how we are fairing on that front at the minute?
I don't know any national level stuff, but based on my memory of the briefing my Wife had this morning (it's an e-mail from the head of the NHS in our area to all staff).
There are around 900 people with confirmed Covid19 in Cardiff and the Vale. Most are Medics who've been tested because they presented with symptoms and are self-isolating. There are currently about 100 people in Hospital with Covid symptoms around 20 are in ITU and the rest in specific Covid wards. People with Covid with symptoms bad enough to need hospitalisation don't always need ITU beds, which of course are designed to handle a huge spectrum of problems, as a non-medic I understand a ITU-lite type set-up is all that's needed to care for Covid patients. I could be wrong.
As of this morning there are 5 wards set-aside for Covid at our largest hospital UHW (which I'm proud to say we played a tiny, tiny part in, we managed to get the Admin / Management staff of the Childrens Ward up and working from home within 24 hours of getting the call so their offices could be converted into a ward), a total of 150 beds, but more can be made available at short notice. There are also other wards either ready or very close to being made ready at smaller hospitals.
Come Monday another 800-900 Bed will come online in Cardiff in the Millennium / Principality Stadium, if needed this could in theory be raised to 2000 or more beds. Another field Hospital in Swansea is due to come online in 2 weeks or so.
Thought we were allowed 1 hour only?
Gove fake news.
The message is clear but people are ignoring it.
Ministers are putting their own spin on the legislation, as are some of the senior police officers around the country. The net result is no one knows where they are and what they can lawfully do.
Strangely the letter from the Prime Minister yesterday was correct on what the restrictions are (essential trips/shopping are not mentioned).
Then we had a clarification on the regulations for those with specific mental health issues who will be allowed out the house/residence more than once a day. Source https://twitter.com/bindmansllp/status/1247954854615699458?s=21
Today we have a senior police officer saying he will be asking officers to search trolleys at Tesco for non-essential shopping. Over reach and again essential shopping is not in the legislation. Also not in accordance with the Peel Principles of Policing.
Edit: The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.
Madame came back from the baker's most amused having seen the municipal police chase down a jogger who'd jogged past the km limit and cut through the corner of the closed park. They still have enough resources to set radar traps - 144kmh in a 50 limit in Tarbes. 🙂 There's not much else for them to do, the crime rate has dropped in just about every sector apart from domestic violence.
Today we have a senior police officer saying he will be asking officers to search trolleys at Tesco for non-essential shopping. Over reach and again essential shopping is not in the legislation. Also not in accordance with the Peel Principles of Policing.
Edit: The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.
A public health emergency and it's all about your liberty?
Especially as they seem to contradict the messages coming out from the government at press briefings.
It really doesn’t probably as it’s the exact same message.
Sandwich,
Rather than have police searching trolleys at Tesco for non essential shopping, couldn't the supermarkets be instructed not to stock non essential items? Thus freeing the police up to do their proper job.
It's not rocket science is it. What a waste of time and resources.
The supermarkets have been profiteering massively during this crisis, evidenced by the huge profits they've amassed over the last few months and the gynormous dividends they're about to pay their shareholders. (a Tesco delivery driver was telling my sister this). How many people have died because of the actions of the supermarkets? A couple of weeks back the supermarkets were jam packed with people breathing and coughing over each other, all because the supermarkets wouldn't limit numbers of essential items that people could buy, raking in all the cash for the champagne at the shareholders party.
Much easier to blame the public than the supermarkets. Putting the burden on the public, the police, the shop staff and the NHS
Drac,
You may see consistency coming from government messaging. I don't. Neither do the police it seems, and I'm not blaming the police here, they seem to have been told to make it up as they go along.
See Sandwiches post, I think that's a fair description of the situation with regards messaging, Ministers being free to put whatever spin on it they like just encourages the population to put whatever spin on it they like.
They remind me of those AIDS adverts in the 80’s with the John Hurt voiceover, only much less effective. Or like a government health warning on a packet of cigarettes, or those reminders on gambling adds, ‘remember to gamble responsibly folks!’
Stuff like that aids advert, or even the green cross code along with the soft "don't, but do" adverts for such things as gambling would be classed by those who have been in government in the majority of years between 1979 and the present as big government/nanny state.
The current corona virus advert is symptomatic of a Government founded in populism, that doesn't want to upset the population. And what a population. The majority will take heed, but a significant minority are selfish and shameless, a product of growing up in the decades that have passed.
Its not totally their fault, they have been left to their own devices by small state government ideology, I would trott out the phrase about good government listens to society, but great government shapes it, but evidence shows that could be twisted in any number of ways.
couldn’t the supermarkets be instructed not to stock non essential items?
last weekend aldi were running tv ads for garden furniture special buys.
It really doesn’t probably as it’s the exact same message.
the government havemt been able to get the same message out from the same source, just hours apart
https://twitter.com/timjhanderson/status/1246854990083371009
The current corona virus advert is symptomatic of a Government founded in populism, that doesn’t want to upset the population. And what a population. The majority will take heed, but a significant minority are selfish and shameless, a product of growing up in the decades that have passed.
That's what I was saying earlier. A perfect storm of a cabinet of opportunists who made their careers banging the brexit drum and following which way the wind was blowing, with as you say several decades of a smaller state and general weakening of general disciplinary and governing power. We've got a society less governable with an executive less willing to govern.
Klunk,
Imagine being caught red handed buying some smack on the street and getting arrested whilst the police let the dealer go Scott free!
To extend the drugs metaphor, seems Hancock wants to sue the supplier of 3.5 million pounds worth of dodgy testing kits. Like he went out to buy some weed and came back with a bag of marjoram!
Edit,
Should have taken Boris with him, Boris knows the difference between good quality gear and icing sugar.
I'd agree that the rules are unclear.
You may see consistency coming from government messaging.
Don’t go out if it’s absolutely necessary such as shopping for essentials, collect prescriptions.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">
Exercise once per day </span>
Do not visit outside your home
Keep 2m apart at all times from those outside your home
Work from home if possible
I can’t help but think you’re deliberately chosen to ignore the advice
couldn’t the supermarkets be instructed not to stock non essential items?
What is essential though?
Any food or drink with calories in it is providing people sustenance. If you ban easter eggs and beer then there is a lot of extra bread and rice the nation will need to buy to keep themselves fed. We've seen how inelastic the supply lines of certain things are.
Cleaning products (both domestic and personal) you would hope would still be allowed. I'll need another pack of razor blades imminently, while that's vanity (and stops me face touching while scratching a pathetic half beard) for me, its essential for NHS workers wearing masks.
There's perhaps one aisle of domestic stuff, from plates to kettles, that I don't consider necessary right now; could be fairly necessary to someone who's broken their only one though.
The usual tatty clothes again I have no need for, but the rate some children grow there'll be some barefoot kids st the end of lockdown.
And finally, what do they do with them? burn them, fill up the small onsite warehouse area with them?
Drac,
Seriously? Just take a look at Kimbers post.
What makes you think i've chosen to deliberately ignore the advice? I've been a good week or two ahead of any government advice in respect to my own actions so you're making a baseless accusation. I'm wearing a mask when I go shopping unlike the other 98% of shoppers I see. I've resisted getting out on the mtb, trying to exercise within a mile or so from home.
I'm ahead of the curve mate. I'm following my own moral compass on this one, 'cos lord knows the government doesn't have one. I've also been following the advice of the Kenyan health ministry and their prime mimister, as my other half is in Nairobi at the moment and we share information. Out there the message is clear and unambiguous. I live in Manchester but I'm following the guidelines from Kenya because they make a lot more sense and are more geared to keeping people safe than the garbled nonsense we're getting here.
Dude! You’re awesome.
Maybe as you’re keeping up to date with Kenya you’ve missed it but the advice is simple. Ok not as simple as don’t go out or you’ll be tear gassed.
@Inkster, I say again essential is not mentioned anywhere in the legislation for travel nor shopping.
The law is the law and that is all that counts when assessing need (this is in the law or specifically necessity). Anything else is unlawful and an over reach.
I have made the same mistake at an earlier part of the process and pulled up. All we can control is our own actions as such I try to keep my nose clean and let others worry about their choices. My trips out to shops are short, though my exercise period can be much longer and isolated from others.
I say again essential is not mentioned anywhere in the legislation for travel nor shoppin
Sandwich,
I'm not arguing about what is or isn't an essential item, I'm more drawing attention to the ambiguity coming from the government and how the police have no clear guidance and are having to make things up on the spot. Leading to confusion all round.
I'm not saying what should or shouldn't be done, I'm just highlighting the lack of both clear messaging and leadership.
So if your saying this is an over reach from the police I'm agreeing with you.
A public health emergency and it’s all about your liberty?
Yes when they're using public order legislation incorrectly it's about all our liberty. Don't roll over on over reach.
The old-school Tories understood this. Both Hurd and Clark both told the ACPO at the time to go swing when they came fishing for excessive police powers.
Policing by consent is a major part of our (not just my) civil liberties. The call for ever stringent restrictions does neither us nor the police service any favours.
Nothants CC is trying frantically to distance himself from his intemperate outburst earlier by blaming 'the media' he is not fit for purpose his words were recorded on video at his press conference. I recommend that we all have a look at David Allen Green is commenting on Twitter.
Sad news about your Gran Drac. Sorry to see that.
Copied from my faceache post yesterday
Overheard in line for Tesco "I dont really need more food but my sister is coming for Easter" and "I need more food as my two grand daughters are visiting". For others it appears to be a family outing. Face masks not covering noses are also the required fashion item!
Also face marks pulled down so people could talk amused me, as did couples going shopping together and people standing inline for an hour to buy a basket containing crisps and Easter eggs....we're ****ed.
Sorry to hear about your gran, Drac.
These laws are eminently justifiable given the public health emergency, are provisioned under the Public Health Act 1984, and have a two-year time limit. Yes, they have not been drafted perfectly, but they had to be drafted quickly. I'm not sure what you want, you say policing by 'consent'? What does that mean in this context? The laws aren't credible if compliance is voluntary.
I’m wearing a mask when I go shopping unlike the other 98% of shoppers
I havent got one, I expect its the same for many
Thanks all I’ve no news on my Gran yet just have to wait. I’ve seen my mother today who’s mother it is, she’s very realistic about and knows this just May be my Gran’s time. We lost my grandad about 18 months ago she pretty much has wanted to be with him since.
I don’t wear a mask either but I make sure I keep my distance, I don’t cough on my hands or a handy and I make sure I carry a hand gel which I use as soon as enter or leave a shop.
I havent got one, I expect its the same for many
I suspect this is the case for many - there’s pretty much SFA on Amazon.
Drac,
I know I'm awesome thanks.
If the advice here is simple then why is everyone, (including the police) so confused? Answer me that one for me would you. That would be awesome.
I know it seems a bit mad I'm talking about Kenya but my other half is out there looking after her 93 year old, rather unwell father so I'm concerned and consequently keeping myself informed about what's going on out there.
Of course I'm aware that Kenya is more of a police state than the UK, probably more aware than you as I have family out there so don't insult me. Your argument is that because their Police are more brutal than ours any advice from their health ministry must be wrong. That's baseless whataboutary.
It does however give me a chance to compare and contrast government press briefings and public information campaigns. If you can be bothered, go on YouTube and look at any briefing from their government then compare it in terms of leadership and clarity with what we're getting here.
You'll also see the energy they are putting into tracking and testing (much more comprehensive than the UK) and how they have managed to procure more ppe equipment, more sanitizer and more masks than we have here, albeit with a fraction of the resources at our disposal
To put it quite simply, if you followed the advice of their government rather than ours you'd have more chance of staying alive.
Get back to me when you've got something to say other than just repeating what the bunch of clowns we have for a government here are saying. Or, if you can't be bothered to do any research that might contextualize what we're hearing here, just answer me that simple question I put earlier....
If the government messaging is so clear, why is everybody so confused (including police). The last few pages of this thread are testament to how confused everyone is and we're generally a pretty informed bunch.
Im not confused, but then again, would a confused person would say that?
fishing for excessive police powers
The police haven’t been given excessive powers, and their role in this goes beyond “applying the law” it is also to help stop the spread of the virus, and some people taking the piss need help from them to understand what is currently “expected” of us, rather just what we can get away with within the relative liberal laws we’re lucky to have (for now).
The police need our support and help right now, not people calling them out for doing what is a thankless and not tightly prescribed role during this crisis.
Drac,
Sorry to hear about your Gran, I'm in the same boat, Father in law out in Kenya and Mum in care home here where they're doing testing today. Mum with very bad dementia and I know she would rather just slip away if she had the choice. Tough times.
Glad you're using hand sanitizer though I'd recommend you use a mask in public where others are present if you can get or make one.
Probably not important right now, but the UK govt graphs had actual typos. Not raising my confidence I them not making this shit up as they go along.
Number of people in intensive care in France is -89 today. In Strasbourg the rules are being tightened a bit more; only one person allowed per car for shopping trips. But the towns that were plaaning to enforce wearing masks have been stopped by central gouvernement.
But where do these "extra" police powers stop?
Will they tell you to put the Napolina chickpeas back and buy the Tesco's own brand?
Will they be able to advise on how to make your own pomegranate molasses?
They haven’t got the powers yet. They may need them soon if enough of the population take the piss and don’t take the measures expected of us all during this.
Just use your head. And allow the Police to crack on with dealing with the pisstakers.
If the government messaging is so clear, why is everybody so confused (including police)
They’re not a few are others are ignoring it. The police aren’t confused either there’s been a few misunderstandings on the law that was rushed in that they’re still trying to learn.
Kelvin,
Not calling the police out on this one either, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't in the current climate and lack of instruction from the gov't.
I'm just dumbfounded by the notion that you can sell non essential equipment but can't buy it. It's Kafkaesque as they say.
At least they're not tear gassing us eh Drac 😎
(Emoji with shades to keep the gas out of my eyes.)
I hope they can also offer some good advice on home haircuts too, after all they are public servants.....
😉
Without a definition of “essential” I’m not sure the supermarkets can act. Kafkaesque indeed. The police can work out if you’re doing the shop for your household, and added a few extras that aren’t really essentials… or if you’ve been through the supermarket, probably the most likely place for transmission outside the public services, just to buy something trivial, and acting up while there.
I’m just dumbfounded by the notion that you can sell non essential equipment but can’t buy it. It’s Kafkaesque as they say.
Except in the real world this isn't actually happening. The police don't give a stuff what you buy.
Why make shit up. 🤦🏻♂️
Been away from the house today for the first time in two weeks, had to pick some stuff up from work and took the opportunity to go shopping on the way back rather than make a second trip. I was truly surprised at the number of people out and cars on the road. It did not feel locked down at all. I expected a quiet Sunday morning felt more like business as usual.
There seem to be to be a lot of people who didn't get the memo. For those being sensible Drac is right the message is quite clear. For the other 50% of the population doing mental gymnastics to justify carrying on as normal and those who are too thick or selfish to work it out (those at the 660 parties in Manchester last weekend) the message has been fragmented and contradictory. There are plenty on here debating the nuances of how to exercise, visit their local second home etc. The message hasn't been simple enough.
The police don’t give a stuff what you buy.
Exactly. Stories of the police dealing with ‘shoppers’ tend to miss out that is the behaviour of people that would trigger the police having a word, if they then make the point about non-essential journeys, as part of trying to deal with someone acting up, then that becomes the news story.
Meanwhile in Cumbria - sensible policing with acknowledgement that vast majority not taking the proverbial.
Admittedly it may all go to hell this weekend as it rather nice weather...
Did you hear the Cumbria Police Radio4 piece? Flagged down two blokes with a canoe on the roof, and turned them around and sent them home. Sensible policing at a difficult time. Obviously no specific law against having a canoe on your roof… or going canoeing in a group of two… but the police need to help the public understand what is required of them. Stay at home.
Drac and some others are the voice of reason here.
We're seeing startlingly good levels of observance of the rules/guidelines/law/instructions. The people taking the piss aren't doing it because they don't know what the rules are, they're just ****s.
Rushed laws are bad laws. If you wanted a well considered properly scrutinised lockdown then you could have had one - in mid 2022 after it had gone though all the consideration and scrutiny legislation requires. What's there is workable and *IS* working - it's reduced new cases to a level the hospitals can cope with - that's what it was for.
People can refer to public information adverts, a clear PDF linked somewhere up there ^^^^ and the legislation itself in ascending order of detail. If you have a question that isn't answered by the legislation itself then only a judge and appeal judge can help you after you've been convicted and plead not-guilty. Courts interpret laws, not Civil Servants or Politicians.
I can't see myself needing to go to that length. I seem to have come to an interpretation of the rules consistent with pretty much everyone else and one that has not caused me any bother with the rozzers all.
There were 2 blokes up here arrested for digging worms on a beach, they’d traveled from Newcastle together in one car. Now I’ve not read anywhere that says you can’t or it’s not essential but you’d have to be thick as **** or just arrogant to think otherwise.
It’s simple only travel when necessary, go out to exercise locally and to shop.
We’re seeing startlingly good levels of observance of the rules/guidelines/law/instructions. The people taking the piss aren’t doing it because they don’t know what the rules are, they’re just ****.
Yes we are and it cant be simplified down to not knowing what the rules are. There will be the broad spectrum from ignorance to intent and everything in between.
It did not feel locked down at all.
I'm unconvinced.
Let's assume EVERYBODY was ignoring the lockdown in your area. The schools are shut, the pubs are shut, almost all the shops are shut. So you'd still have a massive reduction in the number of people travelling.
There's less stuff open now than there is on a Sunday so there must be far less traffic than a Sunday. Unless you live in an area where few people can work from home and you happened to be out at rush hour in which case they're not ignoring the lockdown, they're following the rules.
Shutting the schools *alone* has a massive effect of traffic.
Well 8pm and my street was full again with noise from all around too. 😢
x
Quite frankly Im not overly fussed how many people are in cars. As long as they aren’t socialising/shopping/partying in big groups.