[Closed] Where does northern England start?

If you are a born and bread Geordie then it is the Tyne, The Wear if you are feeling generous.

+1, and I'm not feeling generous!

The m18 junction is east north east of Sheffield, being east of Rotherham...

I say the chesterfield junction.

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Anything below here is the South. HTH.

If you are driving down the A1/M1, just after you leave scotland innit. 🙂

The Northernmost Waitrose is now in central Manchester, therefore the borders have shifted. The North now starts in north Manchester. Boggart Hole Clough precisely.

The Northernmost Waitrose is now in central Manchester, therefore the borders have shifted. The North now starts in north Manchester. Boggart Hole Clough precisely.

Erm we have one in Preston and i'm pretty sure that there is on in Newcastle too, it would appear that northern England is pretty much at the Scottish border now!

Wow. Ok then, Booths marks the southernmost reaches of the North. Knutsford it is then.

cheburashka - Member
The Northernmost Waitrose is now in central Manchester,

I thought Yorkshire was an independent nation state, neither north or south. Just 'other'

I agree with that. You have the south. Then yorkshire. Then you cross over into teeside and when you see those purple clouds and gigantic cooling towers....that's when you know you've hit the north.

Lancashire is just west.

That's all fact.

I've developed a meter that measures the levels of seething regional resentment towards our Capital City. It goes from 1 to 10. Once you're past 5 then you're officially 'North'.
When driving up the M6 the needle steadily moves upwards, hovering around the 5 as you hit Stoke.
Once past Crewe it starts to go a bit mad, clear cheshire and it immediately starts bending the needle over the ten mark. Hit Manchester and it explodes. I'm too scared to take it anywhere near Liverpool

My wife thinks it starts at Kings Cross station, platform nine and three quarters to be precise.

The Northernmost Waitrose is now in central Manchester,

My local one must be fake then.

(I'll check for eBay type "waitroes" misspelling)

When Scotland gets its long fought for [b]'FREEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!'[/b] and Alex is King, with TJ seated at his right hand, will the border of the North have to move down a bit? To, say Stafford services?

Can you not just draw a line at the latitude of the first chippy that does PROPER gravy? Or the point a which you get a head of your beer because that's how it served, not just because it's some poncy belgian number?

This division is based more on a "state of mind" rather than geographical location, so Shackleton's grandad was quite right

Precisely. It's why Altringham is in the south, but Stoke is in the north. And Cornwall has much more in common with the north than the south-east.

Interesting comment in the prologue to that Stuart Maconie book about there not being a "South of England" correspondent .

I mean why would there need to be, are they not content that we let them listen to our radio stations? It's bad enough we've had dodgy dialect presenters fro some considerably irritating length of time now.

And since when were they allowed cappuccino makers and who taught them how to make them work?

I did like the "If you're an Alien how come you sound like you come from oop North?"
"Loads of Planets have a North!"

I know I shall probably be banned for this Northophobia/ism, since this forum also suffers with a North South Divide, I've noticed its pretty much Southerners that get banned regularly and assume there's only a limited tolerance of Southern Fairies here, but you have to laugh, the cliches are so often true...

Oh yes there was one other thing, how the **** do they get to sun dry tomatoes up there without the pidgeons crapping all over them?

I agree that 'Northern' is a state of mind, and has nothing to do with latitude.

cheburashka - Member
The Northernmost Waitrose is now in central Manchester, therefore the borders have shifted. The North now starts in north Manchester. Boggart Hole Clough precisely.

Wahay, Boggart Hole Clough 😀

Some great riding in there - Favourite used to be the track from the Glen Avenue entrance west to Rochdale Road, coming out at the gate opposite Mount Carmel church on Old Road.
Some nice bits up on the top fields near the running track too.

As a Blackleyite/Mostonian, I'd say your almost there:

All of the area north of Deansgate in Manchester is officially the North - you can't exclude Harpurhey, Crumpsall, Collyhurst, Newton Heath or Miles Platting, for God's sake - there's nowhere in the world more Northern than Conran Street Market, for example.

The line is a bit wavy though - Cheshire is practically London, as is Derbyshire, so that's out.
Anywhere in Yorkshire is definitely Northern, as is Wales. All of Wales, even the bits that are in the South.
Oh and Wythenshawe - definitely Northern.

Basically, if they sell gravy in the chippy, if strangers talk to you in the pub or on the train, if someone holds a door open for you it's Northern. Even if it's not.

jfletch - Member
The north begins where your prejudices start (or ends depending on which side you consider yourself to be on)

And the Stuart Maconie book is terrible drivel. As southerner who now lives in the north I found it bordering on racism with its overly romanticised picture of northern Britain and thinly veiled hatred for southerners and the south in general. Couldn't even reading it finish it.

I'm sure its brilliant if you are a northerner with a chip on your shoulder though!

Ah, I can see where you've gone wrong there.
It's not 'thinly veiled hatred', it's pity mixed with contempt. 😉
No chips on shoulders btw - the gravy stains your weskit, see?

Lympstone was the best answer so far... 😉 (not on M1 of course...)

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tees-Exe_line ]Exe - Tees Line[/url]

Divides the Palaeozoic rocks (older, harder, hillier, wetter climate) from the Mezozoic (softer) and Cenozoic rocks (soft as)

+1 really enjoyed the Stuart Maconie book.

Going back to the OP's more geographical question,
[i]Driving up the m1, at what point do you reckon to get into northern England?[/i]
I reckon its at the A38 junction for Mansfield. Above that Chesterfield, Sheffield Rotheram are all in. Below that are the outskirts of Derby and Nottingham, still in the East Midlands.
Coming back down the other one, the M6, its between Stoke (North) and Stafford (Midlands) but the borders harder to find 'cos of the landmines.

Ecky-Thump - Member
+1 really enjoyed the Stuart Maconie book.

I've read both [i]Pies and Prejudice[/i] and [i]Adventure on the High Teas[/i]. Both well worth a read.

Basically, if they sell gravy in the chippy, if strangers talk to you in the pub or on the train, if someone holds a door open for you it's Northern. Even if it's not.

This.

The Stuart Maconie book is fantatic! I didn't find it over-romanticised at all. He's quite brutal about a lot of places.

Cider with Roadies is also really good

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+1 really enjoyed the Stuart Maconie book.

Have you read all of it, I must say I'm tempted after the preview..

Read it a couple of years ago now, I think. Yeah it's a good lighthearted wander around the better end of the country. Recommended.

From Northumberland so I was going for Hadrians Wall, but be generous and say the M62, Manchester et al are the midlands

Agreed that the Mancs and Scousers are far from Northern, and I've always taken the view that the Mackems are like your annoying younger brother that you have to accept really are part of the same family, despite not understanding how this could have happened.

Durham marks the start of the South. Going the other way, after Rothbury it starts getting a bit bag-pipey.

Travelling North up the M1 - I reckon it's Loughborough

Purely on the basis that I once had to find an address there so I stopped and asked [eventually] and was offered written directions for a quid
so I concluded that must of been the South or at least the guy was a Southerner

you don't enter the North.
it enters you.

Ecky-Thump - Member

Read it a couple of years ago now, I think. Yeah it's a good lighthearted wander around the better end of the country. Recommended.

Right, I'm going to make it my first 'kindle experience', who is he? I thought he was some sort of Radio One Disc jockey they bought in to make you lot feel at home with us civilised popsters.. (We all switched to Radio 2 the moment that alien sound came out of the wireless.)

and I've always taken the view that the Mackems are like your annoying younger brother that you have to accept really are part of the same family, despite not understanding how this could have happened.

Very true

Cheshire, seriously?

Sounds like we have a disputed border, god help us if there is a civil war 😉

Chester? The Midlands? You're almost Welsh! 😉

You're almost Welsh!

we confusing north west England & north west Britain here?

Below Gretna

Sample paragraph from the Maconie book

Oooh, isn't this place in the north s**t, and that's why is so brilliant, because its s**t and up north, near to Manchester where I'm from and that. And also the biggest reason its "brilliant s**t", not proper s**t is because its not in the south. The s**t places down there, they are proper s**t because they are down south full of southern ponces.

I'm sure its a great read if you already share his view of the world but it really isn't very endearing if you don't and can therefore be a very slow painful read.

No chips on shoulders btw - the gravy stains your weskit, see?

Thanks, my keyboard is now full of tea.

Actually, that's how you can tell. A house guest arrives. If you say "would you like a couple of tea?" then you're in the North; if you say "would you like a cup of coffee?" then you're in the South; and if you punch him in the face for not bringing any alcohol, you've strayed into Scotland.

Chester born and bred here and always considered it to be the North West. Definitely NOT the Midlands. No way Jose! And you get gravy in the chippy. Can't beat chips n gravy. And bitter in the pubs. So there.

From my point of view Northern England starts as soon as I cross the border!

Strange how the question is always "where does Northern England start" not "where does Southern England start"

just a thought.

Portsdown Hill....

Anywhere that thinks rugby union is a pointless,kick and chase posh sport. And rugby league is proper rugby. 🙄

the midlands is the bit between the a303 and the m4 as far as i'm concerned. therefore the north south divide is roughly the thames.

liked the maconie book too.

Strange how the question is always "where does Northern England start" not "where does Southern England start"

I imagine that's just cos the OP was talking about driving up the M1, so he was already in the South, heading North.

Anywhere that thinks rugby union is a pointless,kick and chase posh sport. And rugby league is proper rugby.

So... Twickenham upwards then?

iwluap - is it actually true that as a Chester resident you're allowed to kill Welsh people with crossbows?