Forum menu
Every time this thread (or a variant of it) pops I double check rightmove.com to make sure that you can still buy a flat in my town for less than the list price of a Ford Focus.
Checks........Yep.......One bedroom Flat for sale within a mile of my house for £17,000.
Three minute walk to the train station, less than an hour's commute to either Glasgow or Edinburgh.
I've been waiting for this "Bubble" for twenty odd years. It hasn't arrived yet.
Three minute walk to the train station, less than an hour's commute to either Glasgow or Edinburgh.
By less than an hour do you mean 59 mins to the central station, then a walk from there?
So 3hrs a day commute to decent jobs?
By less than an hour do you mean 59 mins to the central station, then a walk from there?
So 3hrs a day commute to decent jobs?
No, I mean that I can drive my car ( which potentially could cost more than my house) to pretty much anywhere in the Central Belt of Scotland and arrive at my destination within an hour or less.
If I was getting the train to the City centres It takes about 35 mins either direction to city centre stations.
Commuting times hare are considerably less than I've heard reported in most other major UK cities.
Not bad, so why the depressed house prices? It's a rarity try looking in a few other places
Not bad, so why the depressed house prices?
Seems odd to outsiders that all the residents are related 🙄
Not bad, so why the depressed house prices?
There are some proper shitholes between Glasgow and Edinburgh, so might be one of those.
It does, but why should those that saved and worked hard have a mass sell-off of assets to flood the market and suit those waiting in the wings?
I think these vast windfalls are already bookmarked to pay for nursing homes and NHS geriatric care (if and when the politicians get their heads out of the sand).
It's a rarity try looking in a few other places
It's because the town is, in the main, a post industrial shithole.
It is however, MY Shithole as I was born and brought up there.
But, then again it's still considerably less grim than most commuter towns that I've visited anywhere else in the UK.
I can ride out of my door and 10 minutes later I can be in the Clyde Valley paddling in the river.
I live in a detached Victorian 7 bedroom sandstone villa with a quarter of an acre of garden. I bought it in two halves (it had been split into upper and lower flats) and paid £125000 in total for it.
I live in a nice street, filled with nice houses occupied by nice people.
Why would I want to live anywhere else?
Why would I want to live anywhere else?
Works well for you, but if doesn't help if you don't want post industrial shithole miles from work.
It still doesn't change the fact that there is a massive housing problem in the UK as a whole
Which town?
paid 60K for a 2 bed semi in 2002, worth just under double that but the price has been at that for a number of years. Was 95% mortgage, could get one now if I was in the job of my choice with a combined income of 42k, would get a 120k loan with a 10% deposit for about 530 a month. Our first mortgage payments were £330 a month, although we now pay £485 as we have borrowed against the equity a couple of times.
Why would I want to live anywhere else?
Why would I?
Why would I?
Because Cardiff ? 😉
[i]^ fascinating link Stoner.[/I]
Except it talks of needing a +10% back into 1988, rubbish.
I bought my first place with 100% mortgage in 1985 and was on my 3rd by 1988 - 5% was fine, and even in 2001 when we bought the one before our current place.
FWIW it's all about location. In 1984 I could barely afford the rent in a houseshare down south. I then moved to Hull and bought a modern 2-bed flat for £21k, old 2-bed terraces were available for less than £10k.
My eldest has just bought near Knottingley, paid £120k for a 2-bed new build with garage - mortgage rate is decent (10% deposit) but the fees were almost as much.
I've considered moving somewhere far-flung like Scotland. But travel time would be pretty onerous even if my work do pay for it.
Just checked, and I could still buy a 2 bed house in LS28 for today prices with my wife for our combined salary in 2000 not adjusted for inflation,,, as we did in 2000.
I didn't particularly want to live there at that time, but it was a location we came up with based on all the compromises that ftbers have to make today.
As per stoners post, house price affordability is a function of interest rates and the price paid + LTV. It seems to me that the big change has been in LTV values as I managed to pull together 5% deposit from savings, loans and credit cards.
My wife bought a 2 bed flat in a not very nice part of SE London in the late 1990s for £50k. Her mate told her yesterday that her old place just sold for £440k. Alas, she moved out some years ago. I know it's London but by any standards it's insane. I've no idea how the average punter manages to buy any more. Even trying to save for a deposit is more difficult due to the miniscule interest rate and crippling rental costs. It's very very tough and I can see why people despair and, nightmare of nightmares, move back in with their parents.
I've no idea how the average punter manages to buy any more.
Simple answer to that - average punters aren't. Median London salary c£35k, 2-bed flat in Zone 3 £425k+
Only those with massive help from parents (average FTB deposit is c£90k in London) or those earning well above average salaries are buying. There's only so many people like that which is why transaction numbers are down c45% YOY and several places I know in Crystal Palace which were on the market 18 months ago are still unsold or have been taken off the market - no buyers at current prices. Foxtons share price collapsing tells you that transaction volumes have cratered too.
My South London cycling club has lost 6 members in the last year - mainly because we can't afford to live there any more, and based on the amount of Rapha amongst members we're not low earners generally speaking!
It'll straighten out eventually - demand for property isn't price inelastic - which will be pretty painful for anyone who bought in the last few years - mainly forced to by sky high rents and fear of missing out.
I was first looking for a house back in 1999. You could have a decent sized terrace in Scarborough for 40k but I decided to rent. Bawls.
I moved back home 2 years later and similar sized houses were up to about 50/60k. At the time prices were going up every month and by the time I bought my first house a year or so later I had to pay 75k. Kept that 3 or 4 years and sold for 125k which seemed to be the standard price for a decent sized terrace at the time. They went up a bit more but then the crash happened so the standard terrace is around 125/30k now.
Had I bought in 1999 I'd be mortgage free by now but I missed the boat. There's the split imo.
From the FT story this evening that prices are still, apparently, rising:
Spring 5 hours ago
No mention of volumes!I'm told there's no supply so are these figures must be based on a false or extremely restricted market. Clarity needed.
As usual the FT yahooing the market. No relation with the advertising dollars they receive for the Property Section I presume....
ReportShare12RecommendReply
Bananalyst 4 hours ago
@Spring Agreed. Nearly all the properties I've been looking at in London have been "open to an offer" according to the agent. It's a buyers market with cheap financing, how often can that happen?ReportShare2RecommendReply
Artemesia 3 hours ago
@SpringWhat is happening is that greater and greater chunks of London are becoming unaffordable and there are few transactions in those areas- only foreigners with dollars can buy. Further out and downmarket there are still some being bought with bank of mum and dad etc and prices are still rising. Soon there will be no transactions there either.
It is a huge (or should I say 'uge?) bubble which is bursting in slow motion because there is no single big trigger. Yet.
ReportShare6RecommendReply
/B 3 hours ago
@Artemesia @Spring and when it does burst? A week later: FT - nobody saw it coming. 2008 redux.ReportShareRecommendReply
Spring 3 hours ago
@Artemesia Agreed. No volumes suggests that someone is wrong and the market is not in equilibrium. The question is whether it's the seller or the buyer who's deluded.2-3% gross yield looks way out of whack to me for an illiquid asset that has a large cost of carry. I reckon you need 6%+ yield to justify buying a house so I won't give you too many guesses which side it is that's deluding itself.
I know in Crystal Palace which were on the market 18 months ago are still unsold or have been taken off the market - no buyers at current prices
Flat below me sold the week of brexit for £320k after 2 weeks on the market* to say there are no buyers is ridiculous, I too know the market round here and the 500k and up do not move as fast, anything 'reasonable' will sell. People are moving here because they can't afford dulwich or streatham as believe it or not here is 'value' round here. Overpriced stuff that's too close to the badlands of Anerly or a long walk to the triangle/stations/civilisation will take longer.
That said I couldn't afford to move here now.
*was on Location,location,location and bought by a lawyer. The 'lower earners are being priced out both in buying and renting. I know for a fact that 2 flats here were £600pm for a long time and the tenets left when it suddenly jumped to £800. It's now £1100.
@brooess. You Dulwich Paragon then? Me and my wife are both still second claim members and moved from Sydenham Hill to North Wales nearly four years ago with no regrets.
Judging by the amount of building going up around 9 Elms, Vauxhall and Battersea, the market for flats in London doesn't appear to be cooling - I expect most of it is overseas investors attracted by devalued £!
We stretched ourselves to the max when we bought our first house for 1990 with 100% mortgage - it recently sold for north of 5x what we paid. I couldn't afford to buy my current house now based on my earnings - luckily paid the mortgage off last year. Talking to work colleagues in their 30s who are trying hard to raise a deposit. Successive Governments kow-towing to property developers restricting builds, failure to invest in quality social housing and pensioners cashing in pensions to buy-to-let, effectively locking-out the market.
In London, I reckon anyone currently in their 20s is in a pickle. Like some of the other posters above, I live in SE London in an area that used to be relatively cheap.
A 4 bed house round here is now 1.25m.
Our previous place doubled in value between 2007 and 2015. Takes 2 good salaries to cover current mortgage.
The good news is that all this will finally sort out the enormous London vs everywhere else gap. Boom times ahead for Manchester, Bristol, Glasgow etc.
[i]"Reading a lot of threads which explain how hard it is for younger people to get on the housing ladder"[/i]
Its a media/government fantasy that only young people can't get on the ladder. I know of at least 3 people who are 40+ who cannot afford to buy any property in my city/area around it and none of them can afford the rents of anything other than a single room bedsit. They have no chance of ever having homes despite being reliable long term workers. The house and rent prices are just too high here for anyone on an average single wage.
Having a home in this area is dependent on having a romantic partner or long term reliable house mate who will risk buying with you or who will split rent as without 2 salaries, no home other than a bedsit is ever going to happen for the average worker.
For working single people of any age the situation is dire.
Unless people have kids in irresponsible circumstances (ie bedsit) the state no longer wants to know they exist... so eviction is a big fear as without kids no one gives a **** about you, no matter your other contributions to society or to tax.
The good news is that all this will finally sort out the enormous London vs everywhere else gap. Boom times ahead for Manchester, Bristol, Glasgow etc.
Really? If london sneezes then the shires will have snot dribbling down their faces.
The stamp duty receipts from London ar greater than Scotland and Wales combined, the rest of the country needs the capital to thrive (unfortunately that means housing demand) because if it doesn't we are all the mire.
Also the centres of those lesser cities also have their housing pressures and high prices. It's actually the grim towns mentioned earlier that need a bit of HPI as that shows wages and jobs are creating a demand.
Do you really want rock bottom house prices because there are no jobs and wages to prop them up?
They all seem to want to start on rung 3 of the ladder now, i bought and did up twice before reaching the point where all the young ones feel they should start!!
As a nurse earing £20 000 pa 20 years ago I could afford a £47000 flat. My salary is now £30 000 and the flat is worth £200 000+ and thus I couldn't buy it now. As a nurse with one wage there is almost nothing bar ex council flats in dodgy areas I could buy in Edinburgh
IMO this happened in two main stages - early 70s there was a huge house price boom - my parents house quadrupled in 4 years. Again the the 90s the same happened.
there is simply almost no houses in the many cities affordable to anyone on average wages.
We are keeping our house in the UK because it is a good investment for our kids .
if we sold it , we would be left with more than 300k and I know that we would spend it on crap things we dont need and be left with nothing in 10 or 15 years time .
we thought about selling and buying a smaller property mortgage free but we dont want the hastle of selling right now . We might still do in a year time .
smiththemainman - Member
They all seem to want to start on rung 3 of the ladder now, i bought and did up twice before reaching the point where all the young ones feel they should start!!
So whats your evidence of that?
In between 2 people working full time living with 2-3hr commutes etc. people should also be building their houese 😉
Need to put rent freeze/cap in place and then keep rent prices the same for 20 years. That will halt the buy to let investors and bring prices down to what they should be. People who can't get a mortgage still have to pay the same amount to rent so can never save to try and get a mortgage.
Can't see prices getting down to sensible levels without something drastic like a rent cap.
I'd be going much further any new builds must have a percentage that are local low earner only, percentage shared ownership etc. Then some new areas that are restricted more.
Low interest rates for the next few years combined with increasing inflation, suppressed wages particularly public sector aren't helping those doing essential roles. Ageing population with gold-plated pensions are looking for high yields and will continue to invest in property. Since 2008, the biggest growth in jobs has been in the South East and it's unlikely to change, so property demand stays high. Government needs to change their social housing policy to make it attractive to institutional investors, remove the 'for life' tenancies on council houses and stop selling them.
As a nurse with one wage there is almost nothing bar ex council flats in dodgy areas I could buy in Edinburgh
Most dodgy areas have decent bits to them, even if just a street or two. Perfectly good housing can often be found here on a budget if people were just a bit more realistic.
Since 2008, the biggest growth in jobs has been in the South East and it's unlikely to change, so property demand stays high.
So how do you explain falling prices in Prime Central London (-12%YOY), 45% fall in transactions, Foxtons shares on the floor and an exodus of 30 somethings... property demand is not price inelastic - when prices get to the level of unaffordability that London's at, people leave - whether to home counties, rest of UK or emigration - I know people who've done all of these things in recent years...
Most dodgy areas have decent bits to them, even if just a street or two.
And the best bit is if you live in a tiny oasis in the middle of a ---king ---t hole, you get easy access to ---t schools and all those tasks infrequent to other people become second nature: dealing with insurance companies re break-ins, car crime; first name terms with the desk Sargent when describing muggers and gaining a high level of knowledge about the ineffectualness of bike security systems.
Ace.
Over the last 10 years or so, when I've spoken to people in the building trade (through MTB, usually) I've asked about whether we should consider buying a new build (perhaps one they are or have worked on).
Without exception the answer is "No - they are utter s---".
Apparently housing built for Housing Associations are only "Mostly s---".
I'm just going to put this out there as food for thought for those with more than one property/those who think we don't have a problem and no-one's really impacted by unaffordable housing...
https://www.ft.com/content/d85a3696-f2bb-11e6-95ee-f14e55513608 (Google "More UK households fall below minimum income level"
Nearly a third of people in the UK live in a household where there is not enough money for adequate food, clothing and housing and the basics of a social life, up from a quarter at the start of the financial crisis, according to new research.
Same story in the Guardian but I put up the FT version to show this isn't some lefty heart-bleeding story...
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/15/inflation-could-push-more-britons-below-poverty-line ]More people in poverty[/url]
I'd be going much further any new builds must have a percentage that are local low earner only, percentage shared ownership etc. Then some new areas that are restricted more
that already happens - unless the council lets a developer off the hook, any development over (from memory) 6 homes must be at least 25 or 33% (depending on area) 'affordable' - that is to say, shared ownership or rented through a local housing charity thinger. My street (built 2 years ago) has 17 houses, and 5 of them fit in that category.
Can't see prices getting down to sensible levels without something drastic like a rent cap.
whilst a rent cap would undoubtably supress purchase prices, the side effects are generally untenable - essentially with no return on investment in a rental property, landlords are incentivised to have nothing but the bare minimum, and slowly the houses decend into slums. An exception to this appears to be Germany, where there are rent controls, but its all decided by a complicated equation involving the area, square footage, property features (number of sinks, floor types, etc etc). Even then, the price goes up in line with inflation.
Rents have (compared to buying) remained remarkably static - they appear broadly in line with inflation, which suggests its not overly expensive to rent compared to purchasing
Rents have (compared to buying) remained remarkably static
Wages have remained remarkably static, too.
KM 79 find me a property in edinburgh under £100 000 as that is all I could afford as a nurse
So how do you explain falling prices in Prime Central London
whats that got to do with real people? those properties are bought by city big shots, high net worth individuals who don’t post on MTB forums and overseas investors.
‘real’ people buy £200-£650k flats and houses in the less posh bits of zones 2-3
TJ- I agree with you in principal but there properties available within a couple of miles of Edinburgh city centre for less than £100k.
[url= http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-57401431.html ]1 bed <£100k Edinburgh[/url]
Admittedly it's Trainspotting land.... 🙂
Allow interest rates to normalise, let the housing market correct to sensible levels - accepting the collateral damage - and you have you an answer.
Alternatively fear the collateral dmamage and continue to artificially support current house prices. And you lose fewer votes.
This free market/capitalism thingy is really odd isn't it?
This free market/capitalism thingy is really odd isn't it?
It's about getting elected...
gobuchal / kmn I had a look and there are a few but not very many and IIRC 3x salary is the usual max is it not - so on my salary 90 000 would be my max mortgage. Newly qualified nurse £20 000.