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Toys out of pram time
At what point do you go “**** it, I quit”??
The background – been working for the “same” company since 1997 – events industry. 14 years in London; came very close to a nervous breakdown 2009ish; agreed a deal to move up to Sheffield in 2011 and work from home/in the office a day or 2 a week, which was fine until Covid. Company went bust/made redundant; re-employed by new owners of the company in ’21. Worked fully remotely since except site work. (new premises are Reading/Bracknell which is an utter arse to get to). Technically I’m part of the old “premium” brand; but the new owners are a “value” brand. (The original old company was at one point the definitive example of its type and I’ve done work I’ve been very, very, proud of)
I haven’t had a line manager since Dec. 23. A couple have been employed since, worked 2 or 3 weeks and left; the one I had prior to that never did any actual managery stuff.
Staff churn on the premium brand has been horrific. I think we’ve been through 5 full sets of staff since we restarted in ’21. Except me, and that’s only because I escape most of the bullshit by being remote. The last 2 of the current set left today. There’s been a load of good people I’ve gelled with, all of who have fallen out with the MD/owner of both brands.
I do work for the value brand too, but its always about winning jobs by undercutting the competition, then trying to make money back by cutting corners on providing what we said we would. Dislike it intensely.
We use a lot of freelance staff for site work. I employ/PO them Many of them are friends. Despite written promises from the MD that they would be paid on 30 days terms, its invariably failed to happen. I fight the freelancers corner as much as I can, as I feel that whenever I write a PO I’m putting my personal reputation behind it, and many of the guys work for me because its me doing the asking. Its now got to the point where the Accounts dept are no longer talking to me and the majority of the freelancers are 100+ days overdue. Coming into a busy period, its getting challenging finding people to work for us.
The company has not been in good financial condition for some time – partly due to overexpansion. There was some strategic financial shenanigans about 6 months ago where one part of the company went bust and prepack administration was put through allowing another part to buy the assets, but get out of the warehouse rental contract and there was a rapid downsizing into basically a shed. Some digging suggests that the boss is using his fancy Mclaren** car as security for the prepack asset purchase…
As part of the downsizing, a lot of the kit I use on a regular (daily) basis was auctioned off. I wasn’t consulted or even told about it – I just discovered that some of my jobs had shortages, had a poke around and went WTAF????. The MD who selected the kit to sell wouldn’t talk to me about it. Literally hours after the old kit was sent to its new owners I was subbing the same stuff back in again.
On Friday I discovered again, in the same way, that another auction is happening. Again, of kit that is specced on jobs in prep, and that’s going to be reasonably busy over the next few months.
Today I’ve had a bunch of grumpy emails from unpaid freelancers and then one from the MD saying that we need to save 20% of the hire in cost of a job that’s literally being assembled in the warehouse as I type this, has been in planning since early Jan and where he approved my initial internal quote and the related subhire cost. And I just can’t be *ed. Had enough. * you. * you all. I’ve put weeks into this making this the best I can, not wrecking it now.
There’s no one to talk to – there’s the boss, who’s the single biggest problem with the company. Don’t see or hear from him for weeks or months, then he suddenly appears and micromanages everybody and generally ****s things up. Or his sister. Who I’m not quite sure, 5 years on, what she actually does. That’s the total management structure that’s left. Technically there’s a Production Manager running the job, who’s also signed off my budget but he’s a wet blanket.
I had started to look for new jobs in January. I have a pretty good reputation within my (very narrow) field, but its heavily London centric and come what may, I’m not moving back there – it’ll be difficult to match my current package, so F/T employment options aren’t great. Freelancing was the other option, which would pay passably, but I’d have to work physically pretty hard and travel (mostly on my own coin) a lot.
..and then I broke my leg on 8th Jan… I’ve had 1.5 days off sick; the rest of the time I’ve been WFH as normal. The company in general have been OK about it – quiet time of year - but doing a lot of prep for the busy spring/summer period. I’ve missed a couple of site meetings, but that’s it. However it feels like trying to secure a new job in an active role whilst unable to walk needs to go on hold, and there’s no way I can freelance for 3-6 months yet.
Angry, frustrated, pissed off. Not sure even from 160 miles away, quite how long I can bit my tongue and not tell various individuals to get *ed. But having a wedge of cash turn up in my bank at the end of each month is pretty nice...
**A couple of years back he impressed me loads (not) by denying us all payrises then turning up a week later in a shiny new Aston DBS. Which he then sent back as it wasn’t nice enough.
its getting challenging finding people to work for us.
I've worked in events since 1996 so same sort of time as you. Myself and a colleague took over in 2020, First thing we did was to start paying freelancers pretty much immediately they sent in their invoices. I think once the company can't get decent freelancers it's on borrowed time. Especially if you are selling off the best kit. Second thing we did was to start investing money back into new kit.
Doesn't sound like anything is going to get better unfortunately. Worth thinking about whether you want to look for a new job now or when everyone else is looking for one the company having folded
Knob it off, there's work out there for good people
Sounds like it's time to start applying for jobs left right and centre. Then get one, then politely leave.
I got fed up with my job of 5 years, got a new one and did laps round my department high fiving people. I then politely worked 5 months notice (teaching) and left.
When the new job finished after 3 years I went back and did a bit of supply. I got a new job via contacts from the old job.
Sounds like you are in a small world. Keep your reputation, especially if people are working for you, because it's you.
Good luck with the teeth gritting until you get a new job.
There's not much in your post to make me think it's worth staying... If you're not already working on your CV and networking hard, start now. Obviously you ideally don't want to tell them you quit without having something to go to.
But... nothing forces you to focus on how to nail the landing quite like jumping in the first place!
OP, it sounds like you know what you need to do mate.
I wish you the best of luck, it sounds like an utter sh*t show there.
End of January 2020 (great timing). I’d been working my tits off all year, had barely taken any holiday, had come in when my wife was (very) ill and covered for my MD. I’d turned one under performing team round and been thanked by being given a second underperforming team that was also now doing well. I’d then had my bonus messed around with. I was not a happy bunny, but even with the bonus messing I was still earning well, so…
We had 1 bad month (still better than every month before got given the team), -!: in that same month one of my team did something silly that lost us a client, not a big client and nothing that couldn’t be fixed, but still not ideal. I was dragged into an office, told performance was off and that my management wasn’t working.
So I walked out, phoned up my wife and told her I was about to do something stupid. And just quit. No plan, no new job to go to, just quit.
3 months notice plus 4 weeks of outstanding holiday made for a very enjoyable lockdown. Got a new job in the summer and the decision to quit was the best I ever made made.
My wife is currently being made redundant along with about 30% of the employees. In many ways it was her dream job but it was being run appallingly which has been hugely frustrating. Simultaneously not being provided with a clear direction to work to but also not empowered to make the decisions that needed making.
But......knowing she'll be out of work in a few weeks and the redundancy payout will run out a few weeks later........it's not a fun place to be. There's a hollow look about her when the thought of finding a new job at 55 and settling into a new workplace hits her. Not nice to see. On the other hand I'm hoping once she is out of there and all the chaos and frustration she'll be clearer headed to think about getting a new role.
Is there a middle path for you....a freelance gig that will be just enough you can still think of yourself as employed but more time and headspace away from the toxii to seek out a better full time role?
You sound quite fixated on the industry you are in, but sounds like you've got a lot of transferrable skills there. Maybe sign up with some employment agencies, they'll probably identify jobs that'd fit your experience that you'd not consider yourself. Even if it doesn't come to anything it won't cost and might broaden your horizons.
And good luck dude. That was a great rant. I hope it helped get it all off your chest! 😁
Part of the problem is that I've never actually had to "find" a job. I fell into the current one, straight out of university, after someone who I only vaguely knew put in a good word for me. During Covid I fell into building bikes for a mate, and then building trails after a local bike track company put up an insta post looking for labourers. Then I was invited back to my old job...
Another issue is that there's 2 "red lines" for me - any job has either got to be WFH or commute by bike; any travel costs need to be covered by the company - the last thing I want is to be told "be in London for an 0900 recce" and having to pay out £150 out of my own pocket for the train ticket down...
(When we moved to Sheffield the vague plan was to find a job locally; once I started looking I realised I'd have to take a 50% pay cut. There were a couple of calls who hung up on me after I answered the "how much are you currently on" question.)
...and whenever I discuss it with my parents its always "you can't give up a job until you've got another one to go to"...
Financially I'm quite simple and old fashioned. And to be honest I hate dealing with anything money related - really its just a means to an end - a convenient way to exchange my sweat for food and bikes, but its so easy to get massively, massively angry about it that I just avoid it. Just having cash appear in the bank at the end of the month and not having to chase for it is just so civilised.
Freelancing kind of appeals - broaden my horizons, turn up with no s*ts to give, do, walk away again, but its a hard game and it would take me a little while to find clients who aren't in London. I'm 51 and loading trucks in the pissing rain at 3AM got boring years ago. I was pretty fit and in good shape until 3 months ago, but even so, not sure it would see me through to 67 and retirement...
I left when it became clear the old milk in the fridge had more life and understanding than the management we were gifted and before I fully lost it with them.
It felt great. I was ready to work for less to be free of them, but others spotted my enthusiasm for the industry wasn't lost and I'm now with like minded people and better paid too.
I was going to ask how is the leg. Bust my pelvis/hip socket 8th Jan 2025. Mis-diagnosed but back riding by now - didn't have any time off either as I didn't know.
I suppose a lot comes down to age, industry and what you could manage on. Any chance of a severance ?
You sound quite fixated on the industry you are in
I've never know anything else. And while I'm sure skills are tranferrable, making them relatable is difficult. How do you explain smashing a dozen tonnes of gear into a museum for a party in 90 minutes to someone who's never been there. Or being part of a team that produced a 3 day wedding event in a foreign country with an 8 figure budget and a 6 week lead time? It just doesn't compute with the real world.
I was going to ask how is the leg
The leg is.... I'm in an Ilazrov frame. Pottering round the house now unaided. But It'll be June time before it comes off; then at least another 6 weeks of being very careful before any kind of "proper" activity. Turboing, doing all the physio I'm allowed to, gym a couple of times a week for upper body, but realistically its going to be heading into Autumn before I'm up ladders or climbing trusses again.
You might need to rethink your salary/location expectations. London salary for Sheffield living and all travel expenses covered might be a difficult combo to land with a new role. Those sorts of combinations grow as Companies dick around/morph (I had something similar) and trying to replicate as a condition of entry can be tough.
The other point is, you've been there man and boy so are institutionalised. This means the outside world can seem a bit scary. It really isn't. The biggest issue is making the break. All the 'I know everyone from MD to Yard Foreman and every process/customer/product etc' counts for zero when it's time. It sounds like it's time.
I've never know anything else. And while I'm sure skills are tranferrable, making them relatable is difficult. How do you explain smashing a dozen tonnes of gear into a museum for a party in 90 minutes to someone who's never been there. Or being part of a team that produced a 3 day wedding event in a foreign country with an 8 figure budget and a 6 week lead time? It just doesn't compute with the real world.
recruitment consultants are pretty good at doing that for you
Recruitment is a funny industry, I used to do it, but consultants are generally good at finding and promoting transferable skills. Their commission often depends on it!
Interviewed for management role
Didn’t get it, was given to a guy I brought in and trained. Was ‘very close between you two’
between getting the promotion and starting, matey went back to a previous job, having been offered a ton more money.
Asked, as it was so close, if I could get the promotion. ‘No, we aren’t having that role anymore’ *starts job hunting*
’if we were to offer you the role again, would you take it?’ ‘Yeah’ ‘OK, next quarter’ I sort of start doing the (middle management-y type stuff) role to be ready to start.
Next quarter arrives, I ask line manager what’s happening, she speaks to Sales director who says they aren’t having the role, but not to tell me, as he thinks I’ll just leave. She told me, I was having interviews anyway, got another job. Got asked what it would take to keep me, asked for a 15% raise, no can do. My line manager lasted another few months whilst looking for a new job, which she now has.
Now in a management role at that new company, on approx double what I would have been at the previous place. Similar story for the line manager.
took about 6 months from initial promotion interview to me leaving.
If you've money in the bank to last years then now. If not when you've found your next job.
I left my job after 26 years 3 and a half years ago . Like you it was a pretty specific job and I'd never done anything else .
I left as we were emigrating and I knew that I wanted to do something different that was a bit more family friendly in terms of hours but had no idea what . Long story short I've found something I enjoy where they could see at least some of my skills were transferable and were willing to help me with the stuff I didn't know . I had a couple of similar offers and people were more willing to recruit based on other experience and attitude more than specific job experience than I thought they would be .
The obvious downside is that I earn less but you do adapt .
You sound like you've made your mind up already .
You might need to rethink your salary/location expectations. London salary for Sheffield living and all travel expenses covered might be a difficult combo to land with a new role.
I agree, this may give you a headache. A Sheffield company will pay you Sheffield wages, a London company will want you in London at your cost (that’s why they pay London wages).
Get yourself back into one piece and then move
It sounds like the mistake you're making here is "caring." Nothing you've listed affects you directly, does it? Phone it in whilst you find something else.
31/10/24 at the age of 64 said stuff this as I'd nearly snapped and took a swing at someone. A big increase on an old work pension helped.
In the UK in 2026 I would advise anyone who asked me to look at every job as a transaction. If it isn’t doing it for you then find something else because your employer is thinking that way.
A lesson I learned far too late in life is,
You can have the greatest job for the greatest company, and loyalty is laudable. But it is not reciprocal and you will be out on your ear tomorrow if it best suits the business. All employees are expendable assets, you might get on well with your boss but the machine doesn't give the slightest of ****s about your mortgage.
However it feels like trying to secure a new job in an active role whilst unable to walk needs to go on hold, and there’s no way I can freelance for 3-6 months yet.
There's always a reason to out off what you (really) know you should do. Polish your CV and just get started. There's no time like the present and the sooner you get going on this, the sooner you can wave goodbye and all this stuff becomes stories down the pub.
Decent employers will look past the broken leg, I certainly would, If you've a track record of WFH, then it shouldn't be an issue, although obviously you may have to show your face a few times a week until you get settled, which TBH although it's a drag, it can't be any worse than what you have now.
I had a conversation with a colleague a few years back and have finally got to acting on it, she had a "**** off fund", so that when you need to tell people to you can afford to use it and not worry about finding a new job to go to instantly.
Life is short, terrible jobs are draining and stressful. My opinion is once it gets bad, get out. I do live in an area and work in an area where I've been incredibly lucky to be pretty constantly employed for all the time I've needed to so far though.
Its taken my 46 years to realise what cougar says above is right. It may be through ignorance, power, or whatever but no one that you work with cares about you.
It sounds like the mistake you're making here is "caring."
I wouldn't disagree, but how do you do anything, at all, without caring? Work, riding bikes, hell - wiping your arse - if you put time, (money) and effort into it, you HAVE to do it well, you HAVE to take pride in doing it well and you HAVE to care. If you're not you shouldn't be doing it at all - **** off and leave it to someone who DOES care!
but no one that you work with cares about you.
That I'm well aware of (and currently, to be honest, I don't care about them), but I do care about me and as above, that means I have to do stuff *right* or hate myself.
I think the right answer was probably 2009ish
Maybe, maybe not. As a company we got clobbered hard by the financial crisis and it was working out of that hole that caused a lot of the stress, and as 2/3 the employees had been made redundant but hadn't it, I valued the continued wage and had to grow a pair and stick with it. The lifeline was the agreement in principle to get out of London but continuing to work for the company (and it was very much on my terms - they didn't want to lose me). I'd say 2014 -2019 was a good time as I was part of a really nice team and doing rewarding work.
I've always avoided networking and being noticed. I've never been visible on the company website, I've always side stepped industry shindigs, parties, social stuff - indeed part of the move north was an excuse to miss all that crap. For me the whole point of working in a "backstage" role was that you're invisible. I always feel that if I've been noticed, I've got it wrong. I'm not sure I even know how to put my head above the parapet (or more theatrically, through the red velvet curtains) and say "look at me, I'm wonderful". I'm the guy in black, by the time you've realised I'm there I've gone again.
sounds like your a blue. Like me.
listen to that, it helped me a LOT. i couldn't understand why people didn't care.
I’ve be come very transactional about work. You pay me for 37 hours of my time a week. That’s it. Nothing more. I am well aware how little companies care about staff so I’m all about what’s best for me and my family.
Yes changing job is stressful and a bit of a jump into the unknown but if that’s less stressful than staying put then it’s time to move
sounds like your a blue. Like me.
Yup. That really nice deep dark blue you get on a clear summer evening just as the stars start to come out...
I’ve be come very transactional about work. You pay me for 37 hours of my time a week. That’s it. Nothing more
Great. But you still have to care about what happens in those 37 hours?
Great. But you still have to care about what happens in those 37 hours?
Not always, no. Sometimes it's about doing the minimum you can to avoid getting fired.
I'm not saying that's a long term strategy or particularly fulfilling way to work, but there are times in most people's career when that might be the right approach.
Great. But you still have to care about what happens in those 37 hours?
When we moved to Sheffield the vague plan was to find a job locally; once I started looking I realised I'd have to take a 50% pay cut. There were a couple of calls who hung up on me after I answered the "how much are you currently on" question
Seems like the decision comes down to the following:
Job satisfaction
Location
Money
Unfortunately you cant have all 3, so which 2 do you pick?
IMo there are two "doing your best" positions subtly different. I learnt to accept " I am doing my best within the resources I have" and was content in that. Mrs TJ could only work with " this is the best work I can possibly do" and when resources meant she couldn't reach that she got very stressed which in the end broke her mentally. I wonder if you are too much the second sort wanting to do a perfect job all the time ( an admirable thing) and possibly accepting " the best I can do with the resources I have" may take a lot of stress off you
given what you say and reading between the lines my suggestion would be to do your hours to the best of your ability within the constraints you have but put the blame for shortfalls where it lies - with the management and to not get stressed by it and certainly to leave it at work. Once you have done your hours forget work. While doing this plot your exit route - look for other jobs even if it means a pay cut. Nothing in life is worth that level of stress and unhappiness
I wouldn't disagree, but how do you do anything, at all, without caring? Work, riding bikes, hell - wiping your arse - if you put time, (money) and effort into it, you HAVE to do it well, you HAVE to take pride in doing it well and you HAVE to care. If you're not you shouldn't be doing it at all - **** off and leave it to someone who DOES care!
Meh
It's work. They pay you to do it. If I do it, it's done. I get paid.
Good advice from @tjagain. There's only so much work you can do, and sometimes you have say, "done my best" and (mentally at least) walk away.
IMo there are two "doing your best" positions subtly different. I learnt to accept " I am doing my best within the resources I have" and was content in that. Mrs TJ could only work with " this is the best work I can possibly do" and when resources meant she couldn't reach that she got very stressed which in the end broke her mentally. I wonder if you are too much the second sort wanting to do a perfect job all the time ( an admirable thing) and possibly accepting " the best I can do with the resources I have" may take a lot of stress off you
I probably fall somewhere between the two. And having been at both ends over the years I firmly believe that this is the best approach.
I take pride in doing a good job, something I tried to drive into my apprenti was that I wanted the rest of the company to be of a mindset "well this problematic case is in Alan's department now, so it'll all be ok." I fought fiercely to get into that position after inheriting a department which was a) the glue the held everything else together and b) ****ed.
However. What I will not do is run myself into the ground to achieve that. Been there, made myself exceptionally ill, and for what? Did work go "hey, thanks!" Of course not, no-one else really gives a shit about you. It is "just" a job, you're there for one reason and that's to pay the mortgage. The only person bragging that you've put in 70 hours this week is you, the business is laughing "look at this fkn idiot doing the work of two people for free!"
Do a good job which you can be proud of. But always remember, there's a reason flight safety announcements tell you to put on your own oxygen mask first before worrying about others.
A lesson I learned far too late in life is,
You can have the greatest job for the greatest company, and loyalty is laudable. But it is not reciprocal and you will be out on your ear tomorrow if it best suits the business. All employees are expendable assets, you might get on well with your boss but the machine doesn't give the slightest of ****s about your mortgage.
Amen. I went through it to find this out. It really doesn't matter who you know, how bright your star shines and how 'important' your role is. When the time is right for 'them', you're the target and you're out the door. Reciprocate in kind or eat what you're given and say thank you very much...
I also understand the need to care and do a good job. I'm that way too. No way I could turn up and soft pedal. But, the time you've put in is instrumental in getting you here - experience, knowledge, position, seniority etc. You might not like being where you're currently employed but being there has created a situation where you have marketable skills and experience to go somewhere else. Exercise that choice and look back on this period as incremental in your development. It's not all negative it's just pissing you off right now.
A lesson I learned far too late in life is,
You can have the greatest job for the greatest company, and loyalty is laudable. But it is not reciprocal and you will be out on your ear tomorrow if it best suits the business. All employees are expendable assets, you might get on well with your boss but the machine doesn't give the slightest of ****s about your mortgage.
Basically this, I got shafted and sh** on multiple times by my previous employer.
Everyone on the ground floor was great, fantastically talented people working really hard to do a good job.
The C-suite were always (I did say it happened repeatedly as each batch got paid off into the sunset) a bunch of incompetent lying C's. I genuinely don't understand how capitalism lets some people fail upwards on such stellar trajectories, making millions for themselves and leaving destruction in their wake.
All employees are expendable assets,
not always. I’ve seen groups and departments made redundant, but there are always a few “key talent” who the company needs to retain for competitive reasons. I’ve not been in that position personally, but company talent reviews sometimes have a purpose.
For the OP, it would be unlikely that a company will pay long distance travel to work. Look for something else.
All the above advice is good. But you might want to think about your red lines as expecting to work from home in Sheffield and get London wages is going to be quite limiting.
And you're 51, don't worry what your parents think
I try to care about employer and am still new enough with my current place that I do. But I also have a vested interest in this placve as it is my local council, so me doing my job well means my local area has a good time of things.
BUT, and I have said this to my bossboss, it's a transaction. I'll keep turning up for as long as they keep paying me. My boss understands the stress, understands work/life and lets me manage things within my bit as I see fit, which suits me and the chaps. It's a _little_ pi$$-takey because he gets a team leader without having to pay me like one, but that is a conversation we will have next month.
The last couple of places I have been at have all just worn me down and so I left. I owed them nothing and they were quite clear that they felt the same way (well, last UK job and first SE job... Last UK job was a 15 year stint and I did not even get a leaving card).