Forum menu
I don't care, far too busy right-sizing my value proposition.
You sound inordinately cross about some other people being inordinately cross tbh.
I am glad to see the irony was not lost on you 😉
We probably need to do a deep dive on this subject. Maybe some blue sky thinking, it could be a game changer.
We need to think outside the box, let’s take it offline and touch base later.
While my memory isn’t what it used to be, I’m pretty certain that a search by someone who knows how to do such things will probably turn up a number of threads on this very topic, the conclusion is, inevitably, that language changes, has done for as long as there’s been language, so fighting against it is like putting lipstick on a pig - it wastes your time, and annoys the pig.
I read somewhere that there were loud complaints being made in government circles in Washington, about the number of English terms being used in American speech - some time in the late 18th, early 19th century. Accept the fact that language changes, and get over it, you will lead a happier, less stressful life.
I’ve happily left the workplace where these phrases flourish, though I still do point out my wife’s “opportunities for improvement “. Which she greatly appreciates as I’m sure you can imagine.
It has acquired a kind of knowing, snide edge though. So not the Four Tops meaning, but to send a communication to someone who hates you (probably you hate them also) and who you do not expect to reply. As in the journalist who has just done a complete hatchet job on someone saying "we reached out to President Assad for comment but have not had a reply". The better class of journalist just says "contacted" of course, but to me the phrase does have this edge of knowing insincerity about it. Which means that it is now useless when the Four Tops meaning is in fact intended.
ETA maybe "reach out for" and "reach out to" are different in this respect
right-sizing
This was used during redundancy announcement at my work yesterday.
Far more irksome than "reach out".
It's not just language change, it's a lazy degradation of the language. 'I was like..., he was like...', 'can I get...', 'I'm good' just projects the speaker as not very bright, doesn't read much and is unable to put together an interesting or funny sequence of sentences. Language is political, as reflected by all the euphemisms around eg redundancy or warfare, and being inarticulate reduces your chances of fighting your corner. Just think of all the linguistic mumbo-jumbo that helped Trump get elected.
+1
Anyone who puts 'like' 'out' 'so' etc in a sentence where its not needed - bellends
It’s not just language change, it’s a lazy degradation of the language. ‘I was like…, he was like…’, ‘can I get…’, ‘I’m good’ just projects the speaker as not very bright, doesn’t read much and is unable to put together an interesting or funny sequence of sentences. Language is political, as reflected by all the euphemisms around eg redundancy or warfare, and being inarticulate reduces your chances of fighting your corner. Just think of all the linguistic mumbo-jumbo that helped Trump get elected.
Whereas you come across as a pompous arse that can't recognise a contradiction in his own argument.
as reflected by all the euphemisms around eg redundancy
I got in trouble a while back when replying to my boss saying 'there's going to be a consultation on headcount' I said 'you mean redundancies?' I was told I was not to use that phrase because it would upset and distract the rest of the team, especially the younger members. To which I replied 'do you think they're idiots?' which got me in even more trouble.
You sure? Depeche Mode might have got there first.
Ha ha, I was about to erroneously correct you that Johnny Cash was the originator of the song, but fortunately I googled before making a complete arse of myself on t'internet. For once.
'Pompous arse'? Someone taught you to write a celebration of inarticulacy and illiteracy in complete sentences in standard English. Now there's a contradiction, innit!
Any email communications that start "Hi team......" and people using the word "share" all the f****** time. Stabbing is too good for them.
Yes, username definitely checks out!
All this nonsense comes from America. All of it.
In every other Teams meeting I'm in, someone either asks "who's got a starter for 10?" or states "here's a starter for 10."
Pretty sure we can't blame that on America, but I could be wrong
Theres a load of phrases like this in the workplace. Sweeping generalisation but they tend to come from the people I have pretty low opinions of who float around and never seem to do much actual work...
In every other Teams meeting I’m in, someone either asks “who’s got a starter for 10?” or states “here’s a starter for 10.”
Guilty as charged.
But people know what it means and it's much quicker than saying "I've written a first draft but it's a bit rough and will need refining with input from others".
IT bods went through a phase of calling impromptu working groups 'scrums'.
Nope, I've no idea either.
As long as they don't say or write 'tis, or of this parish, then they can do what they want.
I've just been informed at work that this year we are not having a christmas party. Instead we are having an end of year party. The world has gone mad.
"Mind Blown"
This is beginning to irk...!
IT bods went through a phase of calling impromptu working groups ‘scrums’.
Didn't that arise from the "agile" fad ?
People started using "reach out" rather than contact or get in touch with when it became acceptable to just wang across an email or teams message and hope that it gets picked up in the mass of others that are received at any point in time rather than actually speaking to people.
Bane of my working life, staff starting now (and for a good while actually) are so averse to just picking up a phone and calling someone. Passive communication doesn't get a response.
I'd gladly just give people a ring, but they'd likely be horrified.
Office etiquette demands these things be arranged in advance, and some do everything they can to just send teams messages instead
Reminds me, when the frig did a departmental meeting at work become a sodding "Town Hall"? My last 2 companies have used this stupid description. I bet its another ****y Americanism
Nope, I’ve no idea either.
Scrum - it's figurative. And I thought us IT workers were meant to be the literal minded ones.
It’s not just language change, it’s a lazy degradation of the language
Language evolves, get used to it Gramps. The language you use is what you acquired as a young person which is different to that which your elders used, and so on. Ever wonder why we aren't all speaking Old English? Did you really think there was always one official standard English from the distant past and only now it's being 'degraded'?
You can't call it illiteracy when it's adding new stuff all the time. If you want to be a smart arse, they're neologisms. You know who's credited with the most neologisms in the English language? John Milton, and he died in 1674.
It’s not just language change, it’s a lazy degradation of the language. ‘I was like…, he was like…’, ‘can I get…’, ‘I’m good’ just projects the speaker as not very bright, doesn’t read much and is unable to put together an interesting or funny sequence of sentences. Language is political, as reflected by all the euphemisms around eg redundancy or warfare, and being inarticulate reduces your chances of fighting your corner. Just think of all the linguistic mumbo-jumbo that helped Trump get elected.
See my post a little way back up the page. Then get over yourself. Language, like life, the environment and a whole host of things, continually changes. Apart from the French, and the Quebec Governments obsession with the purity of their language, which is frankly like pissing into the wind.
Language, like life, the environment and a whole host of things, continually changes.
It does but a lot of BS bingo phrases in the workplace are fashionable to use for a few years and then they are no longer used. My example from earlier was "going forward". 10 years ago it was used all the time, now I never hear it.
A current one being used is to "double click" meaning the person is going to look into it a bit deeper. Within 5 years nobody will be saying that as just sounds cliched and old fashioned.
Not recent. It was used when I was in London new media in the mid-noughties.
Even the joke about the Four Tops has been around for years now.
Have fond memories of American colleagues using it then and giggling away with a similarly minded (female) colleague having cracked a Four Tops joke. GREAT times.
I’ve just been informed at work that this year we are not having a christmas party. Instead we are having an end of year party.
We do that. Or have one in Jan. It's a ton cheaper than in early Dec..
Apart from the French
Apparently the Dutch also have a language control board but they periodically review the language and change the grammar rules, so things you learned at school are no longer the case. No-one keeps up to date with changes though, a bit like the Highway Code.
Language evolves
You just KNOW that anyone who says this one of these threads orders a coffee by saying "Can I get..."
It’s not just language change, it’s a lazy degradation of the language. ‘I was like…, he was like…’, ‘can I get…’, ‘I’m good’ just projects the speaker as not very bright, doesn’t read much and is unable to put together an interesting or funny sequence of sentences.
Utter tripe. All this tells me is that you have a significant bias based on how someone speaks. Many young people that I work with speak differently, have accents or include "like" in their sentences - it may come across as "not very bright" to you, but I can assure you, many of them are. Many are simply unaware of how they speak until it's pointed out to them. When you do that, they change. Alternatively, and what I see quite often is that when these "not very bright people" enter a new professional environment, they quickly (and unconsciously) change their style of speaking to match their new environment. I really hope you don't get to interview people.
Have fond memories of American colleagues using it
I was working for a large American corporation, so was probably in the vanguard of reaching out.
All this tells me is that you have a significant bias based on how someone speaks
This is a real problem generally I think. Look at the difficulty someone like Angela Rayner has simply because so many are conditioned to hearing Etonian types in Government. Never judge someone's value by the way they talk, only by what they're actually expressing (equally the easier you make it for the listener the better, that's obvious - but I think it should be more of a a 2-way thing).
Alternatively, and what I see quite often is that when these “not very bright people” enter a new professional environment, they quickly (and unconsciously) change their style of speaking to match their new environment.
Interesting example of that here - a tribunal ruled that an employee was unfairly dismissed for swearing / "banter" because the whole company culture had evolved to the point where it was completely accepted.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yml57lv0xo
You just KNOW that anyone who says this one of these threads orders a coffee by saying “Can I get…”
I don't.
Just back from an agile sprint. Jolly good to see all the contributions expressed with great clarity, no split infinitives or grocer's apostrophes.
Are the people that 'reach out' the same ones that walk in public shouting into the bottom of their horizontally held mobile phones whilst the recipient of the call is on speaker for all to hear? What happened to putting the phone up to your ear?
I think we have The Apprentice to thank for that trend.
Not directed at anyone in particular because I get mildly annoyed by some of this stuff too, but in the words of James Hetfield (and Matthew a long time ago)
Before you judge me, take a look at you
Can't you find something better to do?
Point the finger, slow to understand
Arrogance and ignorance go hand in handIt's not who you are, it's who you know
Others' lives are the basis of your own
Burn your bridges and build them back with wealth
Judge not, lest ye be judged yourselfHolier than thou
You are
Holier than thou
You are
You know not
Yeah, who the hell are you?
Yeah, you
Just back from an agile sprint. Jolly good to see all the contributions expressed with great clarity, no split infinitives or grocer’s apostrophes.
Given this is a conversation, the former would be just fine, especially in the context of modern language. I occasionally get the latter wrong, not because I don't know the difference, but because my fingers get carried away. I'm often in a hurry and forget to proof read before submitting - it's a flaw.