MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
So is 'Can I get?' an appropriate alternative to 'Please may I have?'; and
The inappropriate use of [b]how[/b] when [b]why[/b] is required.
Are these just colloquialisms which should be embraced, or just sloppy language punishable by death (or at least the removal of Lego)?
Far as I know, it's an Americanism. Heard it constantly when I was out there, don't recall ever hearing it here.
hmmmm, I'm all for regional idiom and accents but ****y lazy adoption of americanisms makes me, like, well cross, innit
The how instead of why thing is the norm in parts of Scotland. In that context, as a reigonal dialect its fine.
Actually however you use it is fine as far as im concerned, Americanisms can be mildly annoying but speak how you like.
The how instead of why thing is the norm in parts of Scotland. In that context, as a reigonal dialect its fine.
Makes you sound thick though if you use it somewhere its not the norm.
As a Londoner living in Scotland I get the opposite, always getting my pronounciation pulled up by my Scots mates. Doesn't bother me, we all talk differently. Lifes rich tapestry, and all that.
Read Bill Bryson sometime, you'll find his discourses on language usage between England and America over the years highly enlightening. Back in the eighteenth century, for example, Americans complained about the increasing use of English idioms in American.
Works both ways. Get over it.
Makes you sound thick though if you use it somewhere its not the norm.
Which given the dominance of English accents on British TV is why the rest of the country views the English as thick.
Perhaps. Not sure either my generalisation or yours really works that well. Certain colloquialisms work perfectly well when used by someone with whom their use is congruent. "Outwith" as the opposite of "within" for example.
Read Bill Bryson sometime, you'll find his discourses on language usage between England and America over the years highly enlightening
A lot of things about American english that we tend to think of as corruptions of the pure native tongue are actually the older more 'correct' version.
For example, Americans spell 'colour' without a 'u' because that's how the English spelt it in the 17th century. Not because they're too dim to spell properly. The English adopted the different spelling to be more like the French who we considered more sophisticated.
"Can I get" winds me up.
In, for instance, a pub. "Hi, can I get two pints of lager please". No, the barman has to get them, you pay for them and take them. Grr.
And "like". Grr.
"He was like 'Really?' and she was like 'yeah, honestly' and he was like 'Wow'"
What, so no-one said anything, they both just acted it out in mime?
"Outwith" as the opposite of "within" for example.
Aah yes, that old chestnut. It's not in any dictionary I've seen, and yet used extensively in even the most formal documents. Just weird.
Oh and coming from Bolton, I suspect I'm perhaps more conscious of sounding thick than some folk 😆
Not quite as bad as the Sheffield accent though 😯
geoffj...YGM.
Although not about colloquialisms. 🙂
Americans spell 'colour' without a 'u' because that's how the English spelt it in the 17th century.
Americans spell 'colour' without a 'u' because that's how Webster wrote his dictionary as part of a spelling reform he'd made up.
You're right that some Americanisms are closer to olde english than our own accent is (such as rhotic speech, so long as you're not Lancastrian anyway); to the best of my knowledge, that's not one of them.
some folk really need to get out more.
Ah, a constructive contribution to the discussion.
Dry them
The inappropriate use of how when why is required.
Eh? 😕
The why/how thing was quite endemic within the local population when I lived up in Perth and it was just a local dialect thing.
However, I have also noticed it a little down here in West Lothian and my daughter has picked it up from school. What happens now is that every time she asks "how?" instead of "why?" she gets hit around the head (only kidding!!!)
Firm but fair Ho hum, firm but fair 🙂
What's that Welsh phrase 'Where are you to?' all about? Or 'Where's that to?' What's the to on the end for?
geoffj - Member
"Outwith" as the opposite of "within" for example.
Aah yes, that old chestnut. It's not in any dictionary I've seen, and yet used extensively in even the most formal documents. Just weird.
Ah dictionaries without Outwith within
I once made an edition of bookmarks for an exhibition with 'Outwith' and its definition so that you could put 'outwith' it in any dictionary you like. I bought half a dozen dictionaries to 'model' my bookmarks with, except bugger me when I get them home and open them and for the first time Outwith was bloody in there!
I dislike the people who have taken a stand against the word 'the'.
I'm off down shops.
Also the common shortening of I am not to
which just changes the meaning completely.I'm nae
I do enjoy the doric dialect and the use of
to mean how are you?fit like?
What's that Welsh phrase 'Where are you to?' all about? Or 'Where's that to?' What's the to on the end for?
Also commonplace in Plymouth. Makes no sense but I still say it.
In Nottingham, the word "were" doesn't seem to exist. You'll often hear someone ask "where was you?" Or "you said you was going to". Not just from the less educated either. It's not endearing. It just sounds lazy and stupid. David Mitchell is great to listen to on this subject.
It's not in any dictionary I've seen, and yet used extensively in even the most formal documents.
Just to let you know "outwith" is now creeping into English formal English every chance I get.
Just to let you know in America sticklers of language 'manners' also correct others abt replacing Can with May.
If only the British were such snobs abt everything all the time... 😛
Really generalisations are silly.
For me, the colloquial use of the language demonstrates the best and the worst. The English language is very rich and you can use it or play with it changing or using words how you want, which I think is wonderful. The worst is when the language is abused and used incorrectly.
My biggest problem is the sloppy use of language, for example, there/they're/their, where/we're/were, this in my opinion isn't dyslexia, as is often used as an excuse, it's pi55 poor educashun. 😉
Outwith is listed in Chambers Dictionary,as a preposition of Scots origin.
Ian
I once had "outwith" questioned in an official document i wrote for a NATO group. Big boss looked it up in dictionary (as if it's not self-explanatory) and sent down a note saying it was OK for me to use it because it's got "common" use in Scotland.
Well you learn something new every day.
I genuinely thought that 'outwith' was a word in common use throughout the English speaking world.
Only in the cultured parts.
Double negatives......grrrrr eg.
I haven't got none, or even worse (americanism) I ain't got none
I don't know nothing
Lend instead of borrow eg. can I lend your bike
Particular to the N.E is the use of 'tret' instead of treated,' were' instead of 'our'
Or double positives.
Of course they never occur do they.
Aye right.
What annoys me is people saying:
Are you going down south?
or
What is it like up north?
North isn't up! You can travel in a southernly direction and still go up a hill. grrrrrrrrr
Lend instead of borrow eg. can I lend your bike
I used to hear this a lot in Wales; I believe it's a throwback to "lend" and "borrow" being the same word in Welsh. I wonder if it's the same for the to/from someone mentioned earlier?
'tis a common word, down our way...
SAUSAGE?!
North isn't up! You can travel in a southernly direction and still go up a hill. grrrrrrrrr
No, its oop 🙂