No, just less profit on housing.
I bought my house for £50k 23 years ago - it's probably worth £230k now on a good day. It's not profit though. I'd have to spend that or more to get something similar.
The only time it's profit is when they're firing up the furnace at the crematorium and my daughter gets it. That's assuming it's not all been taken to pay for care fees while I'm shitting myself in a home for 5 years.
And then there's the running costs - the wife and I did a spreadsheet of what we need to spend in the next few month to next 5 years. To be honest it's ruddy scary! 🙂
Yes, give him a hug. Then give out a hug to the other millions of young people who'll be shafted by this country's economy due to the disadvantages incurred by being young and not being born into inherited wealth. Maybe in a few years time when we tire of walking past the end result of homeless people in the streets and we can learn that hugs won't be enough - and that the lucky comfortable few may have to give up a portion of their wealth to enable a broader spectrum of society to progress as a whole.
disadvantages incurred by being young and not being born into inherited wealth
Which raises one of my issues with the housing market, and one of the reasons it is out of reach of so many.
Inherited wealth IMO is the biggest differentiation between my kids and their pals when it comes to future houses.
In youngest_oab's class is a family who have chosen to rent while moving around the world. Unless there is a bank full of cash, they inherit naff all.
Then there is our kids, average house to pass on to them, paid off and divided by three siblings and minus my care costs....
Then there are the classmates in the £1m+house, only child....
Jeez, those young fellas like moaning don't they?
Things are the way they are and at some point you'll have to get with the programme and start dealing with reality instead of complaining that your life isn't fair.
I own my own house, after 30 years of working and saving to pay for it. I've moved 3 times and made a grand total of minus... 10'000 pounds in the process.
Try interest rates at 11%, try negative equity of £20'000, try a two up two down with 2 kids and one on the way.
Try putting your big boy pants on and dealing with it instead of telling everyone it's not fair.
Then there are the classmates in the £1m+house, only child….
Or my mate with his £750k house, five more (including his old £500k house) as rentals and an F-Type Jag as a weekend toy when he doesn't want to take his X5 out or his wife's e-Pace. Last weekend I struggled to press the 'Like' button on Facebook when he posted a picture of his latest investment – a fully restored original (ie, steel-bumpered) MGB-GT.
Jeez, those young fellas like moaning don’t they?
LOL, you've got 3 kids Crikey, they're going to be much more screwed than anyone on this thread and directly blaming you 🙂
Then there is our kids, average house to pass on to them, paid off and divided by three siblings and minus my care costs….
You are missing out the next stage - when your kids have nothing to pass on to their kids.
Jeez, those young fellas like moaning don’t they?
Things are the way they are and at some point you’ll have to get with the programme and start dealing with reality instead of complaining that your life isn’t fair.
Did this, home owner now. What was the point of it all? I guess it does not matter if it is not happening to you?
The only time it’s profit is when they’re firing up the furnace at the crematorium and my daughter gets it.
No problem with you owning a house to live it - this was directed at the BTL cheerleaders.
disadvantages incurred by being young and not being born into inherited wealth
I'll probably be retired before my parents die, so any inheritance is unlikely to make much difference to me. More likely there won't be any as nursing home fees will eat it all up....
More likely there won’t be any as nursing home fees will eat it all u
I know this can be a concern, but I do not know of anyone on my circle of friends who has had a parent (or even grand-parent) in a care home for an extended period.
I know this can be a concern, but I do not know of anyone on my circle of friends who has had a parent (or even grand-parent) in a care home for an extended period.
I figure it will be so late that any money I did inherit would just end up being inherited again as I wouldn't have spent it. I figure by the time I'm 70 my spending will be quite modest and covered by my own pension....
8 years for my Gran, 220k it cost from her estate, luckily she had a house to sell and a final salary pension to pay for it
And they spent their life spending 1 and saving 2 as they used to preach to me
I know this can be a concern, but I do not know of anyone on my circle of friends who has had a parent (or even grand-parent) in a care home for an extended period
7 years in the dementia home for my gran. There was enough left to pay for a good wake and £700 a grandchild.
My grandad is in one... £7000 a month. Been in 3 years now and will be 100 next year.
Sad thing is he never wanted to go in and said to us all he,d had enough and wanted done with it all. But Barchester have kept him going and bled him dry. My mum was and still is desperately in need of any money he can provide as she split from her partner about 10 years ago and was left with an £80'000 mortgage which she still owes (interest only mortgage) and has to be paid by the end of the year as she's 73 and out of work.
If there was no financial incentive – one sufficient to offset the risk of ‘getting a Paddy’ – for landlords to landlord then they’d stop landlording and the rental market would cease.
That being the case, homeseekers’ only options would be to find thirty grand for a deposit (which if they could do then they wouldn’t be considering renting in the first place) or get themselves off to Decathlon’s camping section. Is that what you’re proposing?
If only there was an alternative to private landlords. Oh, wait...
Has g5604 gone off to educate him/her self or accepted that their argument was untenable?
So many questions which he/she couldn't or wouldn't answer.
As for '...BTL cheerleaders' I've waded through 8+ pages and don't see any evidence to support that.
Perhaps g5604 could help by pointing me specifically to BTL cheerleaders on this thread.
So many questions which he/she couldn’t or wouldn’t answer.
I answered nearly every point, I guess you just did not like the answers. Many of my own questions have gone unanswered e.g why is student loan debt at 6% when interest rates are near 0?
University education is another example of trusting the market to act responsibliy. What happened is fees tripled in a few years, grants got cut, loans interest rates soared, top staff took massive salaries and foreign students are prioritized for their higher yields. The hell with the young people trying to better themselves. Shall we trust captalism to take care of the NHS? How is that going in the States?
The counter arguments always comes back to it's captalism, suck it up, move, stop wasting your money on a 'instagram lifestyle' etc.. this lack of empathy used to surprise me.
I understand, you and many people like you don't think there is a problem, you can not relate to a experience you have not had.
If commercial property goes down further, what other good options are there for people to create retirement funds? As we’ve seen, the stock market is volatile too so that’s less appealing.
Pharma
I know this can be a concern, but I do not know of anyone on my circle of friends who has had a parent (or even grand-parent) in a care home for an extended period
One on my side of the family and one on SWMBOs side.
Its not really a topic of conversation that comes up with friends.
Try interest rates at 11%, try negative equity of £20’000, try a two up two down with 2 kids and one on the way.
Yikes! And a good example of why we’ve fixed our rates for the next 5 years and put together a very aggressive repayment plan to end the mortgage as early as possible. We’ve lowered our fixed monthly payments but are maxing out our voluntary overpayments.
Id love to see a house price correction(one that doesn’t shaft the economy), according to Zoopla (which was more or less right with their estimated value when we bought) our house has gone up 30k-60k in 5 years which is nuts as we’ve definitely not done work to it to justify that.
I don’t see it happening in the next 10-20 years, I can see 1 probably 2 major price crashes happening but I can also see prices rebounding again. I just can’t see the political will for them to crash and then be suppressed.
Id even like to believe it can correct through price stagnation, but I’ve been listening to people arguing it’s “crazy and can’t go on” since the mid 90s.
Which raises one of my issues with the housing market, and one of the reasons it is out of reach of so many.
Inherited wealth IMO is the biggest differentiation between my kids and their pals when it comes to future houses.
Even when it is in reach you’ll still be screwed for being poor.
We’re fortunate enough to have savings that we can use to pay off a large chunk of our mortgage and plan out early voluntary repayments. All in we’re saving in the region of £15.7k in interest payments, if we couldn’t afford to save as we have we’d have to pay that.
So if we earned less, we’d pay more. And if we’d had enough inherited wealth, we’d have no interest to pay at all!
A mate of mine has retired at 54.
He went to Uni, his Dad said dont go into Halls, we'll give you a house deposit (~1981), get 3 other people to rent, then that will pay your mortgage.
And it did, twice over. So after 2 years, he bought another house purely to rent to students. And that paid nearly double the mortgage, so he then bought another house for him only to live in, with the mortgage easily covered by the 2 houses he rented out.
So he could save pretty much whatever he wanted into his pension pot. And it paid dividends big time for him.
Just £3k investment from his parents (£15k now?), a bit of business acumen from him, and his life has been very good.
Myself on the other hand got FA from parents, still paying a mortgage at 55, will be working until at least 67. But I'm not moaning about it, I'm happy with my lot.
Just £3k investment from his parents (£15k now?), a bit of business acumen from him, and his life has been very good.
All depends what University you are at. It is not 1981 anymore and the days of a £150k 4 bed house in the south are very, very long gone.
So he got inheritent wealth, access to credit (presumably guaranteed by parents) free education and house prices were much more affordable. See the problem with the situation today?
All I know is that every time I have come close to being able to think of owning my own home it has been thwarted by something.
2002 - had a deposit together and was looking at houses at the bottom of the market. The Stamp duty limit raised up so every house I was looking at jumped up £20k, putting them all out of reach.
2008 - again had a deposit together and was actively looking. Banking crisis kicked off and that caused the mortgage rules to change, severely cutting my spending power as a single buyer. Literally went from being able to afford a small house to being £30-40k short overnight thanks to the affordability test severely penalising single income applications.
2020 - being made redundant but getting a very good payoff package, more than enough to combine with current savings for a decent deposit. Unfortunately the job market is on it's knees so the whole savings package may well be spent on keeping afloat. The added kick in the teeth is that deposits have jumped from 5 to 20%, again kicking my spending power severely.
Add in all the price rises over the whole period and it's highly unlikely I'll ever own the roof over my head until my parents pass away, that's presuming there's any value left in the house after care costs. I'm 40 at the end of this year and that means that the length of mortgage I can apply for will gradually shrink form now on so that's another issue to worry about. Think I might get myself a mid-life crisis toy instead.
Pretty sure you are meant to stop eating and move to Burnley.
All depends what University you are at. It is not 1981 anymore and the days of a £150k 4 bed house in the south are very, very long gone.
Plenty of University towns where this is still possible and still goes on, student areas are generally not the nicest part of town and you can pick up terrace houses pretty cheap still
Just £3k investment from his parents (£15k now?), a bit of business acumen from him, and his life has been very good.
Some of my friends didn't even need paretns money, just advice. When I went to Uni 15 years ago. My parents told me not to take a loan if I could afford not to, as all debt is bad, so worked all my holidays to pay for it. A couple of other mates, whose parents paid for everything, told them to still take the maximum loan and stick it in an ISA at 6%. I left uni with almost no debt but no bank balance either, they left with £20k in the bank that they used as a house deposit that it took me over a decade after them to get on the housing ladder and in that time had been paying rent, while they had been building equity.
Plenty of University towns where this is still possible and still goes on, student areas are generally not the nicest part of town and you can pick up terrace houses pretty cheap still
Which is why I said depends where the University is. I live in the south so am in a different world and as I said days of a £150k 4 bed house (even in a shitty student areas) are very, very long gone.
My parents told me not to take a loan if I could afford not to, as all debt is bad
Ha, what crap advice that was. Student loans are great.
So he got inheritent wealth, access to credit (presumably guaranteed by parents) free education and house prices were much more affordable.
Mean while much much later on I(and my wife who will be paying hers off for the rest of her life on teachers wages) did the loan for uni thing , my parents didn't give me money for deposit. I didnt inherit a fortune.
I took a job working in a perceived dangerous part of the world and survived long enough to exit and buy a house.(and it wasn't the armed forces ) Spent most of my 20s living in dread of the phone going missing gigs /nights out family gatherings and all but gave up racing my bike ..... when the phone went often from then you had 24 hours notice to get your bags packed and get to the airport. Mainly I got that job because it was pretty shit and no one wanted it .....but it paid well because of the danger both medical and kidnapping plus the nature of the work. I'll probably pay for that in later life physically.. but no more than my dad did doing similar on building sites for our family stability.
My work colleagues dad bought the family home many moons ago by working in South Georgia (think about what industry that might have been) he did 2 years solid away from his family to give them the security of their own home.
There are ways and means if you are willing and able but you'll have to sacrifice and jump out your comfort zone and you'll probably not do it pushing paper around a desk if you are not one of the chosen ones with a golden spoon.
Compared to other countries the UK is relatively unusual in having so many people who whose homes are privately owned by those living in them.
True. But private rental in the UK is nothing like renting in any other European country. Nothing inherently wrong with renting, but in the UK it is a financial trap without rights or security.
Totally agree. The way renters in the UK can be treated is utterly unacceptable. Absolutely vile process with so few safeguards for tenants.
So, Burnley's probably not far enough - you'll need to be a drug runner in Mogadishu to kickstart your life. Incidentally, many of my friends emigrated to Australia after the turn of the millennium mostly in recognition of the state of housing in London/ South even back then...in retrospect, they made a very smart move.
Don't know why anybody lives down south.
Speaking to a lad the other day - just bought a 2up 2down terrace in Brighton with on-street parking (for 600 quid/year) - for £500,000.
I bought a 3-bed semi with a garage, two car drive and front and back garden in Nottingham for £140k.
The ten grand extra a year he (thinks he) earns from being dahn sarth simply doesn't stack up.
But we were both wrong - I left Notts and have bought a 3 bed detatched house in 7 acres of land with not a neighbour in sight in a forest in Snowdonia for about half what he paid.
YOLO.
If you're banking on inheritance to bail you out of poor life choices (and they *are* poor life choices - like the choice to dick about at school instead of learning, or the choice not to continue learning, paying for courses to further a career so you increase your employability and earning potential) then you're a fool.
No inheritance here - just hard work. Disadvantaged? Try single parent family where the single parent was an abusive alcoholic.
Quit whining about how hard the world is and work your ass off. I'll be stopping at 55. And as I've kept myself in good nick (no junk food, exercise) then I've given myself a shot at a long happy retirement. (If I die at 56 at least I've tried).
There's way too much jealousy and whining in this thread (you struggle to like a mate's facebook post??! Get the **** off facebook and work harder!).
Yes, the odds are stacked against all of us. But consistent intelligent hard work beats the odds.
How about we invest in things that are not peoples homes, but actually create something of value. We have been brainwashed into thinking BTL is the only way to secure our futures and the hell to the next generation coming up behind us.
The housing market is not good for the economy it dampens the economic activity of the young – the people we need to start up new businesses.
Damn well said
And also various stuff said by g5604 or whatever he is called. Damn well said too.
@trail_rat it's a admiral story, ever wonder why you had to make such choices? There is a bizarre belief by some people that there has to be some sort of epic struggle to obtain housing. Personally I would like it to be easier for my children.
because they happened to have been born there and have most of their family/close friends nearby? Wouldn’t swap that for a million acres on my own in Snowdonia. If you genuinely can’t understand that I feel a bit sorry for you.Don’t know why anybody lives down south.
@trail_rat it’s a admiral story, ever wonder why you had to make such choices
No I don't. Overpopulation largely.
There’s way too much jealousy and whining in this thread (you struggle to like a mate’s facebook post??! Get the **** off facebook and work harder!).
How many jobs do you want people to have? Average salary does not get you a house.
I saved 80k over 12 years because the bank would not lend me enough to house my children without this deposit. Not sure lack of hard work was the problem.
Since owning a home I have started a business and now earn more. I could not do this before as I would not have been able to get a mortgage.
crikey
Member
Jeez, those young fellas like moaning don’t they?Things are the way they are and at some point you’ll have to get with the programme and start dealing with reality instead of complaining that your life isn’t fair.
I own my own house, after 30 years of working and saving to pay for it. I’ve moved 3 times and made a grand total of minus… 10’000 pounds in the process.
Try interest rates at 11%, try negative equity of £20’000, try a two up two down with 2 kids and one on the way.
Try putting your big boy pants on and dealing with it instead of telling everyone it’s not fair.
An oddly succinct summary of the issues, as a country we've gotten into the idea of personal property ownership being a good aspiration. But with it seems to come a degree of hardship, 'normal' peoplehave to suffer a bit to earn a house either to make some money on, to pass on to their kids or just to feel secure...
And so the assumption seems to be that all subsequent generations must suffer at least in equal measure to the previous to attain the same standard of living/property ownership... Except over that same 30 year period you mentioned, housing construction rates have fallen, population has increased, BTL and second home ownership has increased, the cost of property relative to income has risen.
The real question is, do you feel your kids generation need to suffer even more financially and personally than you did? Because that is the current trajectory...
Is scrapping amongst ourselves for housing and financial resources a productive, socially beneficial, "character building" activity or could we actually achieve a better society for future generations by allowing human necessity rather than human greed drive our housing market?
Incidentally, many of my friends emigrated to Australia after the turn of the millennium mostly in recognition of the state of housing in London/ South even back then…in retrospect, they made a very smart move.
Depends where you go, Sydney isn't much better than London.
If you’re banking on inheritance to bail you out of poor life choices (and they *are* poor life choices – like the choice to dick about at school instead of learning, or the choice not to continue learning, paying for courses to further a career so you increase your employability and earning potential) then you’re a fool.
You know the thing about averages? About half of all people people are below average, maybe more IIRC. Think about that.
I answered nearly every point, I guess you just did not like the answers.
You didn't answer mine and I asked it seven times.
Many of my own questions have gone unanswered e.g why is student loan debt at 6% when interest rates are near 0?
Aside from this being abject whataboutery and bugger all to do with the subject in hand,
Not all debts are bad (spoiler, a mortgage is a debt and this is seemingly awesome) and the student loan is one of the best debts going. You don't start paying it back until you're earning over a certain amount of salary (about £20k IIRC), and the entire thing is written off after 25 years. You'd have to be unfortunate, but it's possible not to pay back a single penny.
I understand, you and many people like you don’t think there is a problem
You demonstrably do not.
So he got inheritent wealth, access to credit (presumably guaranteed by parents) free education and house prices were much more affordable. See the problem with the situation today?
Funny, I thought the usual Boomer narrative was bloody Millennials having it all too easy, everything handed to them whilst "we" had to work for it.
I saved 80k over 12 years because the bank would not lend me enough to house my children without this deposit.
Even at current abnormally high 20% deposit rates that makes for a £400,000 property. Either that or for whatever reason you were considered a financial risk.
I've just sold my entire house for less than your deposit. This is what I meant by managing expectations, your entire complaint is "people making a profit" yet meanwhile you're in a position to pony up for a near half-a-million pound property and are whining about it? And have the brass neck to blanket-assume that no-one else could possibly "know what it was like"?
You are way off with your numbers, which is not surprising as you are quite happy to round up 400k to half a million.
Not that is matters but the house was 265k, average salary (freelance work could not count) + 2 kids means I could only borrow 180k. The house had not been touched since the 70s and did not have central heating - a long way off the picture you are painting of a luxery lifestyle I am demanding.
Please tell me what question you are asking, because I have no idea.
Yay!, my bro has finally managed to buy a house (see my comment back on page 1), He bid over asking price (i sold my 36yr old mk2 golf 16v, ill never drive it again anyway-not with progressive ms) with £5k from myself. Nice house (nice enough compared to his rented 1bed flat anyway) that is ready to move into with a decent sit ooterie shed thingy. Well chuffed for him as he's been trying to buy summit for the past couple years, and the sale of my golf has let me update my 11 year old MacBook to a new iMac 27" and new computer chair so we're all now happy and content.
No inheritance here – just hard work. Disadvantaged? Try single parent family where the single parent was an abusive alcoholic.
Quit whining about how hard the world is and work your ass off
While you are clearly awesome not everybody handles things the same as you have and don't have the ability to study harder, continue in education and so on. And you may feel you had it hard but you still had some fortune on your side to get out of it.
When you stop work at 55 maybe become a tory MP, you are a natural...
^ I haven't seen any other viable alternative proposed by anyone else. Things are the way they are, you can sit and moan and wait for the Glorious Revolution, or work hard and deal with the real world.
you can sit and moan and wait for the Glorious Revolution
The people moaning will be the first against the wall 😉
I haven’t seen any other viable alternative proposed by anyone else.
I'll say it again;
social housing
SOCIAL HOUSING
SOCIAL HOUSING
[u]SOCIAL HOUSING[/u]
Clear?
@somafunk that's nice! Those houses are solid, my aunt's lived in one like that for about 40 years now. Better than even my ex LA mid 60's build.
@somafank - round by the football pitch, no?
I'm liking the space outside but inner shelter for a quiet coffee..ace.
Yeah, On the road heading down to football pitch, Just got to get him a decent espresso machine as moving in gift and sort out mains power to shed.
That house is ridiculous, for the same price where I live you'd get 60% shared ownership of a 1 bed flat. Which isn't a humble brag it just shows how ****ed the market is
Probably so but up here its minimum wage/lowest pay area/very poor job market in scotland and very little/no amenities that you more than likely enjoy where you live, my bro is on minimum wage @ 40yrs old and recently left his minimum wage job in local fish factory to now retrain as apprentice plasterer with good local firm, he's also a retained firefighter in town so needs to stay close to station. Mortgage for house is £100 less/month than what he was paying for 1bed flat in town - there's your problem...dicks buying BTL and holiday homes in this area have ****ed it for locals.
Im 48, live in 1 bedroom council/now housing association bungalow - I've never had a job that paid more than minimum wage so I've had absolutely no chance of ever buying in this area
I haven’t seen any other viable alternative proposed by anyone else
- limit number of btl, through increase in taxes and the introduction of proper rent standards
- stop propping up the market every time is looking like it will stall.
- remove the private sector from social housing - it's economic illiteracy.
- stop selling houses to foreign investors
- tax empty properties heavily
- ban second home owners in areas that are pricing locals out
- introduce a universal basic income, so everyone can have some liquidity and actually address generational immobility.
None of these are viable of course because they might lead to less unearned wealth.
work hard and deal with the real world.
This is not how the world works, try working in a Amazon warehouse or delivering IKEA furniture. Are they not working hard? Certainly harder than your average landlord.
The country consistently votes Tory.
Lets just leave that there for a while to sink in.
The "think of the children" lot on here - did you vote Tory too? I'd wager a substantial lot of you did.
Financial crash? Austerity that literally kills? People at food banks? Not enough housing? The rich getting richer at astonishing record rates?
Oh. You voted Tory.
You can whine all you like about "no alternatives" - but it's rubbish. There *are* alternatives but they all come with a higher tax rate - and when push comes to shove you ditch ypur ideals and desires for a better, fairer society and vote Tory.
I suspect a lot complaining about BTL are only moaning because they can't afford to do it themselves. They voted Tory because *insert whatever self-justifying argument you didn't vote for one of the alternatives here*.
Whilst we're barely a functioning democracy voting is the *only* lever we have to pull - yet the majority of the british public, *inclufing the poor* refuse to vote for the alternatives.
Instead, they vote Tory, and whine.
Id rather hack my own dick off with a bread knife than vote for any tory ****
For the record, I come from humble beginnings, ****ed around at school, left with no qualifications and am not particularly clever!
However, I’ve ducked and dived a bit, taken a few risks and own a £1.7m home and house in Majorca. Definitely not a brag, I just want to say that whilst I’ve played the market quite well, you have to push relentlessly to get anywhere. Not saying it’s a bad thing, but there are a lot of people on here that play it ultra safe and wonder why they haven’t got anywhere.
social housing
SOCIAL HOUSING
SOCIAL HOUSING
SOCIAL HOUSING
– limit number of btl, through increase in taxes and the introduction of proper rent standards
– stop propping up the market every time is looking like it will stall.
– remove the private sector from social housing – it’s economic illiteracy.
– stop selling houses to foreign investors
– tax empty properties heavily
– ban second home owners in areas that are pricing locals out
– introduce a universal basic income, so everyone can have some liquidity and actually address generational immobility.
This all sounds great, when is this happening?
Oh, yes... it's not.
Things are the way they are and you don't really have a choice but to play the game...and it's rubbish and I don't like to say it but it's true. At the risk of cliche-ing myself to death, we are where we are and you can protest as much as you want to, but this is Conservative Brexity Britain and there is no real choice other than to play on.
you can protest as much as you want
Or leave the UK. Property is cheap in parts of France. I hear it's also cheap in certain areas of the usa. ....both have their own issues
Hell even brechins cheap if you really are desperate not to be renting off a scumlord BTL owner for 80k you could buy your own BTL empire.
For the record, I come from humble beginnings, ****ed around at school, left with no qualifications and am not particularly clever!
However, I’ve ducked and dived a bit, taken a few risks and own a £1.7m home and house in Majorca. Definitely not a brag, I just want to say that whilst I’ve played the market quite well, you have to push relentlessly to get anywhere. Not saying it’s a bad thing, but there are a lot of people on here that play it ultra safe and wonder why they haven’t got anywhere.
Rockape1-62 are currently bankrupt...
I think crikey nails it. The system is broken, but realistically it's not going to get fixed - to sort the housing market you need to address social housing infrastructure, social care/end of life care, transportation, retirement provision/viable replacement at scale for a failed pensions system, financial incentives to downsize as the kids fly the nest, continuous means testing of social rents and laddering them according to household income (then ringfencing and reinvesting the rental uplifts into more housing), managing/policing social housing to ensure zero tolerance to antisocial/unacceptable behaviour to ensure they stay a safe and desirable place to live (or else people don't want to live there, undermining the whole thing).
That's just the things off the top of my head. It's not as simple as "ban the evil landlords"
Here is one thing you can do:
- give up your BTL
New Labour were the architects of this housing crisis, vote on polices not party lines.
Mass automation is coming, more voters are trapped in untainable living situations - change is coming.
You are way off with your numbers, which is not surprising as you are quite happy to round up 400k to half a million.
I was following your lead of exaggerating for effect. Annoying, isn't it.
Not that is matters but the house was 265k, average salary (freelance work could not count) + 2 kids means I could only borrow 180k.
How many years ago?
Average salary today is about 25k. Did you get a mortgage for 7+ times your salary or do you think £50k/pa is "average"?
The house had not been touched since the 70s and did not have central heating – a long way off the picture you are painting of a luxery lifestyle I am demanding.
Like I said earlier. You're living in one of the most expensive parts of the country and complaining that it's expensive.
Please tell me what question you are asking, because I have no idea.
I've asked you (eight times and counting now) what the difference is, and you've finally had a fist of answering it.
Here is one thing you can do:
– give up your BTL
Brilliant. Then what?
change is coming.
Aah, I hate to be this guy, it saddens and depresses me but I don't think it is.
We are too far down the road, the chance for any real change was years ago and we went on by that turn off while fiddling with the radio...
You know how people say that folk get more conservative as they get older? We don't really, we just get more realistic, more accustomed to the way things are and the way things will be. I've got the full lefty CV, from fighting with the Tactical Aid Group and scrapping with skinheads at gigs, protesting this and that, Red Wedge, the Anti Nazi League...
The future is one of more of the same, big business will allow you to live a certain way, your Government will be beholden to that big business, your media will support that big business and dictate what your Government will do.
Meh. Work hard and sort yourself out; there's not really any alternative.
Right the only option in life it to become a feudal style landowner, because erm... capitalism and it's the way it is so shut up with your alternatives.
Average salary today is about 25k. Did you get a mortgage for 7+ times your salary or do you think £50k/pa is “average”
If that was the case (it's not) you are just underlining my point. It ****ing hard to get a house
It **** hard to get a house
Yes, but it's hard for everyone, even counting those with parental help and/or other good fortune. I work with lots of people from lots of different countries who chose to come here and they have exactly the same issue but they have no choice but to crack on and do it.
Right but we reached a point where you can't just crack on.
If that was the case (it’s not) you are just underlining my point. It **** hard to get a house
And you're avoiding mine. Again.
How could you "only" get a mortgage of 180k on an "average" salary? What's "not the case" with what I just said?
You've (presumably) chosen to have children before buying a house.
You've chosen to live somewhere really expensive.
You've chosen to spend well over a quarter of a million pounds on a house some undisclosed number of years ago.
You claim to have been on an "average wage" and could "only" get a mortgage of £180k.
I chose not to reproduce. I've just inherited a cat.
I've just sold my house for 60k.
I'm buying a five-bedroom house for 160k.
I'm not greatly paid but it's above average. My mortgage is £110k.
My old apprentice at work is currently a first-time buyer (in his 20s).
He has no children. He has a dog.
He's buying a new build with his girlfriend.
He's using the "help to buy" scheme I linked to earlier which means his deposit is minimal.
If he's not on minimum wage he's not on much more. No idea what his girlfriend does but I don't expect she's on a neurosurgeon wage.
Your assertions have no basis in reality outside of your own little bubble and the root cause of your tribulations is not BTL landlords.
But people are just cracking on.
If they weren't, no one would be buying houses and the price would be coming down.
Houses sell.
If they don't sell, the price gets dropped, but they do so the price is right.
House next door is up for sale; 6 views on the first day and its £100,000 more... bloody more... than it was bought for 8 years ago.
Play the game or don't, but the game doesn't care.
I suppose that in the past social housing was there for the less fortunate but now we have huge swathes of under 40's (and older) in good jobs who cannot get on the housing market. Especially on their own.
@crikey you are describing the problem, houses are being sold at a fierce rate between an ever dewilnding section of the population who have access to credit lines that younger people do not have.
Your assertions have no basis in reality outside of your own little bubble
Right, nothing to see here everything is fine. I just need to do what you suggest - move, get rid of the kids, work harder, but not too hard as you find my definition of a average salary offensive somehow.
House was bought 4 years ago.
You would have be emotionally impotent or wilfully ignorant not too see the ineqaualities in the housing market.
You would have be emotionally impotent or wilfully ignorant not too see the ineqaualities in the housing market.
Yup, but that's the way it is.
You don't even have a choice; deal with it.
Deal with it?
How?
Let’s forget the fact that you’re the hardest working person on the planet who pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and blah, blah, blah...
How do you suggest overcoming the reality of the fact that the average salary is 25 grand, and the average house price is over ten times that? How do you save for a deposit while simultaneously paying astronomical rents to people lucky enough to have capital, inherited or otherwise?
It’d help if you addressed the actual issues of that rather than stressing to us how your anecdotal hard work and genius decision making saw you right in a completely different era...
The simple fact is that our housing market is *ed because for decades now owning capital has been enormously, almost obscenely rewarded while wages for actual work have stagnated or fallen (which is about to get even worse), creating huge inequality of which the housing market is the most totally *ed up example
If you’re not even prepared to acknowledge that glaringly obvious fact, or think we should all just accept that ‘that’s the way it is’ then you’re part of the problem.
I suspect that if you were a recent graduate, already saddled with huge debt to pay for your education, you’d probably feel a bit different
If you were a postman in Manchester you might earn 25k and a house might cost 10 times that. If you were a Postman in Orpington that 25k would buy nothing below 300k.
25k is the ‘average’ wage. Do the maths and work out the salary that a minimum wage job gives you.
It’s not 25 grand.
Where are these people supposed to live then? Now that social housing and affordable housing essentially no longer exist
If you didn’t catch it this week on BBC1 then this is well worth watching, to tell us where we are as a society
Manctopia - Billion pound property boom
Of all the housing construction presently going on in Manchester - and there’s a ****ing lot! - 85% of it is sold to foreign investors ‘off plan’ before its even built
Does that sound like a functional property market to provide for the housing needs of the population of Manchester?
Of course it bloody doesn’t! Because that’s never what it was meant to be
To me, it sounds about as far away from that as it’s possible to get
It’s just a massive scheme to make people who are already gifted with plentiful capital even more money.
And if poor people end up on the streets as a result of that...
Whatever....
Who cares?
I know I've seen it as our HQ is in Manchester. Talk to the taxi drivers etc and they say their sons and daughters are priced out of their home town.
As I have been in mine.
Right, nothing to see here everything is fine.
Not what I'm suggesting and I've said as much several times.
I just need to do what you suggest – move, get rid of the kids, work harder,
Another straw man.
but not too hard as you find my definition of a average salary offensive somehow.
I've no idea what "your definition of an average salary" is as you've proven elusive in explaining what you mean thus far. The national average salary with or without London weighting is well defined, is that what you're talking about or have you made up an entirely different definition?
House was bought 4 years ago.
What's it worth now?
You would have be emotionally impotent or wilfully ignorant not too see the ineqaualities in the housing market.
I'm well aware of the "inequalities in the housing market," you're just shouting at clouds rather than engaging in a sensible discussion.
25k is the ‘average’ wage. Do the maths and work out the salary that a minimum wage job gives you.
You don't need to "do the maths," the minimum wage salary is about 15k. Again, this is well documented.
Manchester is in the process of being socially cleansed, in the same way large areas of London have been, with the property market being used to hammer that home.
Andy Burnham has been very vocal about this but is powerless to stop it.
It’s worth noting that the Tories are now about to tear up what remaining planning controls local councils do have in a charter to let rip their property developer mates to do what the hell they like
Unbelievable as it may be, our government, when faced with a huge victory housing crisis, fully intend to make things considerably worse.
But their mates will make shed-loads of money, so it’s all good
Manchester is in the process of being socially cleansed
What does that mean and by whom?
Unbelievable as it may be, our government, when faced with a huge victory housing crisis, fully intend to make things considerably worse.
Not Corbyn's fault then?
I chose not to reproduce. I’ve just inherited a cat.
I’ve just sold my house for 60k.
I’m buying a five-bedroom house for 160k.
I’m not greatly paid but it’s above average. My mortgage is £110k.My old apprentice at work is currently a first-time buyer (in his 20s).
He has no children. He has a dog.
He’s buying a new build with his girlfriend.
He’s using the “help to buy” scheme I linked to earlier which means his deposit is minimal.
If he’s not on minimum wage he’s not on much more. No idea what his girlfriend does but I don’t expect she’s on a neurosurgeon wage.Your assertions have no basis in reality outside of your own little bubble and the root cause of your tribulations is not BTL landlords.
Honestly, perhaps this is the issue. For me Cougar, it's your scenario (houses at £60k, people on minimum wage buying a new build) that don't have any basis in my reality. Average house price where I live is about £300k.