I think you miss mine if you could still only borrow 3x income houses wouldn’t have sky rocketed as people would only be able to buy within their means, so buy to let would have been a lot less prevalent as it wouldn’t be so easy for them to get the money as well
Prices hadn’t moved a lot previously
Not suggesting people buying buy to let’s aren’t adding to the problem just saying why I think it’s surged
Quick google suggests private rentals have nearly doubled in the last 10 years 😳
University has gone through the roof since people started borrowing money to do it
Quick google suggests private rentals have nearly doubled in the last 10 years
Well homes are needed.
And
Prices won't plummet, ever. Too many people have got a vested interest in keeping them rising (or at least holding steady).
Prices won’t plummet, ever. Too many people have got a vested interest in keeping them rising (or at least holding steady).
Clearly you weren't in the housing market in the early - mid 90's; that's what people, including me, were saying then.
What happened? Price falls of c50% in some areas; East Anglia being one of them - I know as I lived there at the time and felt the pain.
You are missing the point, I would have been able to buy the house if BTL was not driving the market up
Would you though? How much deposit did you have against what you actually needed?
In real terms how much are the BTL buyers "driving the market up?"
and my savings were not going on over inflated rents.
You couldn't afford to buy. You're whining about 'having' to rent. Forth time lucky: what's your alternative?
Affordable houses exist. Mine sold for £60k. To mortgage that tomorrow you'd need a £12k deposit. Have you got £12k lying around? If not, how is that a landlords' fault?
I find this blindspot incredible, but many just simply have not had the same experiences.
It's not about experiences, it's about correct appropriation of blame. My girlfriend is renting, her capital worth is in the red. Aside from shacking up with me (or someone else) her only option of getting on the property ladder is a 100% mortgage. If she can't get that - and the mortgage lenders wanted a £30k deposit from her daughter recently - then at the risk of repeating myself, what's the alternative? If mortgage lenders want a deposit you don't have and no-one is letting rental properties, what are you going to do?
I understand your dilemma and I sympathise, it's a shit situation all round. But I posed the question "why is BTL such a bad thing?" and I am as yet unconvinced by your argument, without BTL tenancy as an option you'd have been on the streets or still living with your mum.
If the BTL market is driving property prices up by, I don't know pick a figure, 20%, that just means you'd need to find ten grand rather than twelve to buy my armpit of a house.
Not much love for or understanding of BTL landlords in some posts.
For clarity, I'm not one of them.
They can be seen as anything between a social good and thieving bastard; it's a broad spectrum.
We've moved a long way from the thread title but I'l play.
If you have a deposit and satisfy the lenders affordability criteria, you have options - buy, rent, live with parents, live in car/van, live in tent.
If you don't have deposit and/or fail to satisfy affordability criteria you can scrub buy from the list above but the other options are still available.
BTL is not a guaranteed way to make money but has attracted a high level of opprobrium.
Sure, some landlords are unscrupulous but many others aren't.
Some are small scale, friendly, supportive, looking to cover their mortgage and other essential costs; others are large scale, profit driven and see it as a business.
BTL landlords have decided to use their (spare) capital in the housing market; nothing wrong with that.
They are partially filling a huge gap left by councils largely walking away from social housing.
Pre-covid my suggestion would have been - take on a second job and save like F; not useful now so... work, save, minimise expenditure, differentiate between wants and need, convert 'stuff' into cash, swap/switch utilities and bank, stop take aways and so it goes on.
It's also tiresome to read the bleating comments about...older generation(s), pensions, zero hours contracts, how unfair life is.
The 'older generation' have not gone out of their way to make life difficult for subsequent generations.
Let's take final salary pension schemes; for people of certain age they were the only available option; first day in new job, told to see Margie in payroll office - just sign here to enroll in pension scheme, no option, explanation or discussion so you're in the DB scheme. Never see the money so don't miss it.
Employers were able to fully fund pension schemes - then.
Who knew what the future would hold?
Hindsight gives all of us perfect vision.
As for houses owned by older generation(s) - affordable mortgage based on 2.5X salary with possibly 1X second income; tightly controlled expenditure; credit card debt - what's that?stuffed wardrobes - no, latest technology - no, public transport everywhere as cars weren't 'a thing' so...prudent. Generally, no wish to move and re-mortgage.
Market movements were completely outside of their control.
Good fortune - yes.
Why slag them off?
Why slag them off?
Is it not the system people are slagging off? When many people own multiple homes, that reduces the supply of homes available to buy for people who want to own their own home. Pretty obvious why some people don’t like that situation.
Sure let's just shut up and accept that's things are they way they are, fine I guess as you are profiteering, but why do people not care about their children?
The pull yourself up by your bootstraps brigade are the same people that did not have to do this.
For the record I saved a 80k deposit over 12 years, working through uni, living with parents, stressing over every last penny etc What a waste of my 20s.
When we had kids we rented damp, undersized properties, being no fault evicted 3 times in 5 years. The house we brought for all that effort is 3 bed semi ex council house. We were bidding against BTL every time. It's now even more unaffordable.
I do not feel proud that I was able to save the money, I feel robbed and truly sad for the next young family after us that will have to struggle even more.
There will be a point when enough people will have gone through similar experiences to cause a fundamental change. I don't think many people realize how much anger is brewing.
@matt_outandabout you must be aware a 3 bed house at 130k is highly unusual. I could got not get studio flat within 50 miles of where I live. Sure I could pack up and move - but there are no jobs or family (childcare).
Your housing market is working, reasonable rent, small profit for the landlord, can buy a house after a few years saving - we are not talking about the same thing.
You raise a good point there - the excessive prices of South / South East is part of the issue.
We're a crowded island, even more crowded in the S/SE with policies that still focus on jobs, economic activity and benefit within a couple of hours travel of London.
I'm of the view that to transform investment, jobs and infrastructure elsewhere could start to 'reorganise' house prices. I also think that's why there's so much resistance to such a change - MP's, consultants and more who stand to personally lose out on expensive house prices in S/SE. Turkey's voting for Christmas and all that.
I’m of the view that to transform investment, jobs and infrastructure elsewhere could start to ‘reorganise’ house prices.
Probably, but it'll push prices up in other areas, not drop them significantly in the SE
Yes just look at what is happening in places like Manchester - lots of new housing sold to investors, locals priced out.
The market needs to be taken out of it. There is a gap opening up, my friends in their 40s tend to have multiple homes, those under 40, probably will never own now. These are the people that will ultimately force a change -hopefully peacefully.
We’re a crowded island,
We aren’t.
Brilliant, lets build a load of new towns in Scotland or mid wales where its not so crowded. That will solve it.
A uni mate got into BTL in a big way.
Ended up owning several streets of houses (all on the never-never, obviously). Reckoned he was going to be a huge property baron.
It all went tits up. He squandered his wife's inheritance and ended up bankrupt - now lives in a rented house.
Hope that makes some of the landlord haters feel a bit better.
We are 14th out of 195 countries on earth.
London and SE has nearly 50x the population density of Scotland, with England averaging 5x the population density of Scotland.
🤔
For the record I saved a 80k deposit over 12 years, working through uni, living with parents, stressing over every last penny etc What a waste of my 20s.
I'm not sure that's any different from my parents generation, or the one between them & myself. Living at home, scraping money together for a deposit, getting married & moving into the family home.
My other halfs parents bought an old farming cottage with the floor collapsing, the roof leaking everywhere, with no money left to do any repair work. It’s just how it was, and still is IMO.
Buying a house isn’t easy. It never was.
Buying a house isn’t easy. It never was.
It's even LESS easy nowadays though, all you need to do is look how much the house price to earnings ratio has skyrocketed. It is significantly harder for people to get on the property ladder now compared to 20/30/40 years ago.
Oh come on! Of course it's different. The deposit is much larger, the mortgage many more times income, the mortgage term 30, even 40 years instead of 20 or 25. The average first time buyer age is much higher. The time to get a family home much much later. You need two incomes now FFS. Good luck trying to sort childcare.
Add the other obstacles thrown at them e.g uni debt it's no wonder people give up and dare to enjoy an occasional avocado.
It is significantly harder for people to get on the property ladder now compared to 20/30/40 years ago.
Is it though, really? My parents were, when they bought their first house considered high earners, they still had to go through a lot of pain to get there. When I bought my first house there wasn't really any pain or consideration.
Oh come on! Of course it’s different. The deposit is much larger, the mortgage many more times income, the mortgage term 30, even 40 years instead of 20 or 25
Not necessarily - we have shown real examples in this post of people able to buy houses for less than a price of a car, a £60k house with a £12k deposit & mortgage of less than £500 a month. Yes, if you want a nice, big house, in a nice area, then yes - a big deposit & a bigger mortgage over a longer term is more likely. My parents first house was a dump, in a area I wouldn't want to live.
You need two incomes now FFS. Good luck trying to sort childcare.
You don't NEED, you may want.
Add the other obstacles thrown at them e.g uni debt
Again, need & want. Going to the uni for the sake of it & expecting others to pick up the bill? I'm not sure other than a small % of people I know who went to Uni put their degree to any use whatsoever. Maybe the thought of getting into a silly amount of debt for it will encourage people to look at other options which they may be better suited to.
I've been on both sides - happily rented & happily bought. I am totally ambivalent to actually 'owning' a house. I would be just as happy renting again. Home ownership is not the god given right/utopia that some people make it out to be.
Is it though, really? My parents were, when they bought their first house considered high earners, they still had to go through a lot of pain to get there. When I bought my first house there wasn’t really any pain or consideration.
So you just ignore the fact about the house price to income ratio then? It's empirically harder for people nowadays regardless of how many times you say "is it though?"
@hob nob but why are your aspirations so low?
Why should a family with two incomes have to struggle so much to afford a house. We had two kids in our bedroom for 2 years to help save, this is completely unnecessary as we could afford the mortgage payments on a much bigger house.
Why should we pay so much more to get better educated when this was never the case before? Uni debt is now charged at 6% interest, what's your mortgage rate?
So you just ignore the fact about the house price to income ratio then? It’s empirically harder for people nowadays regardless of how many times you say “is it though?”
Google tells me the average UK salary in 1980 was £6000 & the average house price was £39,500. A ratio of 15%.
In 2019 the average salary was £36,311. The average house value - £234k. A ratio of 15%.
When you have a perfect track record of paying more monthly rent than the 20 year mortgage monthly repayments you are likely to have for a mortgage that will be approved, yet have slowly struggled to save a ~20% deposit during that time, you are left with no doubt the south east housing market (although this applies to many areass in the UK to some degree) is absolutely screwed.
@hob nob but why are your aspirations so low?
Who says they are? We are very fortunate that we could, if we wanted to, mortgage ourselves up to £1m+, personally I can't think of anything worse than a noose like that around my neck. Therefore we have a mortgage that's a fraction of it. To do so, we moved from the South East to the English/Welsh border.
Maybe, if having high aspirations is owning a £1.5m house in Winchester & all the trappings of that 'lifestyle', they are low.
So you just ignore the fact about the house price to income ratio then? It’s empirically harder for people nowadays regardless of how many times you say “is it though?”
THis wasn't aimed at me, but while I accept that fact; remember how everything else has got better and cheaper.
My first proper job out of uni, I spent 1 months gross pay on a car. Over 5 years, about the same again on maintainence & repairs. Never left me stranded.
Recounted this to someone 15 years older than me, their first job, loan of 6 months salary to buy their first car. Broke constantly, total money pit.
Food is cheap and plentiful, with a number of supermarkets within easy reach of most people's homes.
Inflation adjusted, what my grandparents paid for their landline phone would get you a new iphone on an unlimited contract these days.
Utilities in general are a much lower fraction of living costs.
Working hours are shorter, everything is designed for convenience, people have much more free time and disposable income compared to someone in the same situation a few decades ago.
IF you gave me the chance to go back in time to the 80's, with no knowledge of the future, except about the housing market, would I do it? hell no.
In 2019 the average salary was £36,311.
Nope. You know the bit below the headline number? Might want to read that bit.
Must admit I thought the average wage figure of ~£28k was more ballpark in recent years, there's so many jobs that are now only offered part-time and have been for some time, such as posties.
Who says they are? We are very fortunate that we could, if we wanted to, mortgage ourselves up to £1m+, personally I can’t think of anything worse than a noose like that around my neck. Therefore we have a mortgage that’s a fraction of it. To do so, we moved from the South East to the English/Welsh border.
So the solution once again is to move hundreds of miles away.
Maybe, if having high aspirations is owning a £1.5m house in Winchester & all the trappings of that ‘lifestyle’, they are low.
Ha! as if that is the conundrum. How about the aspiration to own a 3 bed semi detached house that used to be owned by the local authority.
So the solution once again is to move hundreds of miles away.
No, that was my solution. Winchester & surrounding areas is not exactly hilly, or fun if you like mountains & the great outdoors.
And the point being, it's a choice. We could have chosen to spend half that on a nice house somewhere near to where we were, which would have been fine, if we didn't want to live next to a forest, literally on our doorstep.
How about the aspiration to own a 3 bed semi detached house that used to be owned by the local authority.
Why not move somewhere where you can afford to do that? Or have bigger aspirations (as you put it) to earn more money to be able to afford it in an area where you want to live?
Not necessarily – we have shown real examples in this post of people able to buy houses for less than a price of a car, a £60k house with a £12k deposit & mortgage of less than £500 a month. Yes, if you want a nice, big house, in a nice area, then yes – a big deposit & a bigger mortgage over a longer term is more likely. My parents first house was a dump, in a area I wouldn’t want to live.
As of just now, on Rightmove there are 34,000 properties for sale in England/Scotland/Wales under 100k and 181,723 under 250k. (out of 437000 total properties).
Hobnob, your numbers look a bit orf.
Average wage in 1980 was around £6000
Average house price in 1980 was around £21000
You've used the average house price for the decade against the 1980 wage
1985 average house price 30k
1985 average wage 9.5k
1990 average house price 60k
1990 average wage 15k
Interest rates in the 80s were hefty though so percentage of wage spent on mortgage should also apply.
Why not move somewhere where you can afford to do that? Or have bigger aspirations (as you put it) to earn more money to be able to afford it in an area where you want to live?
Pesky things like jobs and childcare.
When I talk about aspiration I am not talking about personal wealth acquisition. It's the (hardly lofty) aspiration to live and work in the same town. There is enough houses (hence you can rent) this is not the problem. Again, we could afford the mortgages payments - this is a choice being made with 5.5 million BTL landlords profiteering from a rigged market.
Quick search for 3 bed houses under 130k in my area shows 232 available - and not all shit-holes...
...not in the Highlands of Scotland but in the middle of the country within easy reach of Nottingham, Derby, Sheffield - trains, airports and loads industry around.
I think a lot of peoples problems now is they don't just want the house - they want the cars, the holidays, the tech, the nights out, the whole instagram lifestyle.
Fun game, I can get one boat:
It is a nice boat though - great views! 🙂
ha! yeah.. I actually wanted to do this a few years ago, girlfriend was not keen.
I think a lot of peoples problems now is they don’t just want the house – they want the cars, the holidays, the tech, the nights out, the whole instagram lifestyle.
That's ignorant and unfair.
People want at least some things, like a decent trip away - look at how many people on here are always on about T5s and trips to Morzine and £3k bikes. And is it fair that people have to sacrifice SO much just to get what others take for granted? When we're talking about an essential? Sure, rich people are always going to have it easy, but is it fair that people who aren't rich are in such a difficult position, forced to hand over most of their money to someone richer, when it's a basic human need? Is it right that people like gr5604 have to sacrifice their 20s when others are enjoying life? Why should the poor have to make this choice?
Housing is one of the most egregious examples (in this country) of the boot of the rich on the neck of the poor. And it would be pretty easy to work towards fixing it - it's a well known problem with lots of solutions.
For those quoting average salary vs average price - what we need is first time buyer prices vs salaries. Otherwise you're just factoring in wealthy people up-sizing.
Why should the poor have to make this choice?
It not just the poor, unless you are given a very large amount of money for a deposit, a couple can have above average incomes and still have next to no chance of owning a house.
More and more people will find themselves in this situation, especially as everyone taking out 30-40 year mortgages in their 30s will not have the equity to pass down to their children.
Now I am part of the home owner club I was able to remortgage for less money, despite my girlfriend losing her job, and myself having no provable income as I went self employed this year. Made me feel sick to be honest.
Averages are certainly skewed but give a general idea of historic shifts.
It's far from black and white with inflation and interest rates also having a considerable effect
Between 1997 and 2007 average house prices tripled, the big boom that never went bust.
especially as everyone taking out 30-40 year mortgages in their 30s will not have the equity to pass down to their children.
Well they will have equity - the mortgage will be paid off in their 60s or 70s and then they eventually die and (assuming they don't leave it all to a Cat Charity) the children get an inheritance.
sorry, yes but they won't have that crucial gap where they are still earning, but not paying the mortgage.
People want at least some things, like a decent trip away – look at how many people on here are always on about T5s and trips to Morzine and £3k bikes. And is it fair that people have to sacrifice SO much just to get what others take for granted?
That sounds like social Network influence, no one ever posts up the bad/**** days.
When we bought our first house we slept on camping matts for months and did not have a fridge for about 4 months (luckily it was winter). Holidays were a few nights away in a tent and we had two BSO's to commute to work and do the shopping with as fuel was a luxury item according to our budgeting.
Even now, 25 years later, "T5s and trips to Morzine and £3k bikes" is still way off the mark for us and I feel I earn a good salary, but have never had enough to move far up the property ladder.
sorry, yes but they won’t have that crucial gap where they are still earning, but not paying the mortgage.
Possibly, possibly not. My mortgage is due to be paid by the time I reach retirement age but I fully expect to be able to overpay in the final few years when our girls have grown up and left home and we have much more disposable income – I estimate that feeding, clothing and supporting their interests (music, dancing, horse riding etc) right now costs us >£1,000 a month.
Why should the poor have to make this choice?
So where do you draw the line? What house price makes it fair to the poor? Make all first time buyers houses £50k? Even at that level there would be hundreds of thousands who still couldn't afford a house.
Unfortunately the South East (and other hot-spots) are always going to be expensive.
Possibly, possibly not. My mortgage is due to be paid by the time I reach retirement age but I fully expect to be able to overpay in the final few years when our girls have grown up and left home and we have much more disposable income
Not going to help them onto the housing ladder then?
So where do you draw the line? What house price makes it fair to the poor?
The truly poor should be housed by the council, house prices should be roughly 3 x income - if you did this I would expect a huge surge in productivity and economic growth.
"Housing is one of the most egregious examples (in this country) of the boot of the rich on the neck of the poor. And it would be pretty easy to work towards fixing it – it’s a well known problem with lots of solutions."
This.
Only the most self-centered of people, the most vested or the most ignorant can look at this country and say there is not a problem with housing.
Anyway this thread is missing this!...
🙂
Is it right that people like gr5604 have to sacrifice their 20s when others are enjoying life?
When I was in my 20s I was shit poor. Everyone I knew was shit poor. Because we were trying to buy houses. I thought thats what being in your 20s was supposed to be like. At least its character building.
It IS much harder now. But complaining that it isn't fair that you can't have your nice house AND you foreign holiday AND your stable of 3k bikes AND your T5 just comes across as millennial whinging and doesn't really help matters.
house prices should be roughly 3 x income – if you did this I would expect a huge surge in productivity and economic growth.
Which they roughly were (+10%), before the 80s. How do we get back there?
No one is complaining about any of those things.
We want good quality rentals and a realistic route to owning a house.
It might be mainly a South east problem now, but it is coming your way soon.
We needed to restrict house value booms , its too late now , should have had taxes on property profit
sliding scale depending on how long the property was lived in , speculators could still work with houses that needed renovation as those costs could be factored into the tax, leaving it all to the market and
heating it up along with restricting social housing has made a mess.
The solution is to make BTL less appealing and ultimately introduce a universal basic income.
Is it right that people like gr5604 have to sacrifice their 20s when others are enjoying life?
We can't go back as a society I know - but the other thing back in the late 80s and early 90s when I first bought is people were doing things much sooner. Couples got married in their early 20s and a house was really the dream for which everything else was sacrificed.
House, kids, one car and a week in SkegVegas! 🙂
But going back further - my grandfather who was an Overman down t'pit was considered a fool for taking a mortgage and buying his own house in the 1950s.
We needed to restrict house value booms , its too late now , should have had taxes on property profit
sliding scale depending on how long the property was lived in
that already exists. You pay CGT on any property you own that is not your primary property, and if you live in a property then rent it, you pay CGT on a sliding scale based on how long you lived there.
FWIW, I was a BTL landlord for most of my 30s (38 now, sold last year) - nothing alturistic about it, it just seemed like the most efficient investment, which it was, partly due to the rental income (£250 mortgage, £1250 rent), but mostly due to the rise in prices over the period I rented it out (could have sold for £260k when we moved out, sold for £338k 5 years later). Together these turned £60k (deposit) into ~£180k. If you remove the growth from house prices, I think most BTLers would simply not be interested in buying them up
Those numbers are obscene for the amount of work you put in.
When I bought my first house I rented out three rooms and slept in a room too small even qualify as a box room.
It's the "hidden" costs of living that are doing for peoples savings/outgoings.
Granted it was the early 90s but my bills were low. Council tax was probably less than some folks sky bills now. The rush for cool new stuff is understandable but expensive and it's costing.
I should be mortgage free the year I retire. Yes a t6 yes expensive bikes yes a decent wage but no kids (we'd swap it all for kids but alas biology had other ideas).
The solution is to make BTL less appealing and ultimately introduce a universal basic income
BTL *is* significantly less appealing. I want out. Thousands of other landlords too. The returns are not what they were a few years ago.
I also agree with a universal basic income.
Not going to help them onto the housing ladder then?
If we are in a position to help and we feel they need/deserve it then why not? With lower outgoings each month when they leave home (of around £1k in today's money) as well as our mortgage being lower as a percentage of earnings (we don't intend on remortgaging but I do expect to earn more in 10+ years time) means I believe we would be in a position to help if we believed it was needed.
And we may also decide to downsize (this has been discussed already in our household) which would mean they would have access to further financial support.
We want good quality rentals
The solution is to make BTL less appealing
Would you care to elaborate on how you get "good" rentals whilst simultaneously discouraging people from becoming landlords? I'm obviously missing something but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Would you care to elaborate on how you get “good” rentals whilst simultaneously discouraging people from becoming landlords? I’m obviously missing something but that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
Cut the private landlords out and let Councils take control of social housing again. Social housing should not be about returns.
Or how about the landlord takes a little less profit - outrageous I know. Look at @5lab numbers if you are unsure if this is possible.
you must be aware a 3 bed house at 130k is highly unusual. I could got not get studio flat within 50 miles of where I live. Sure I could pack up and move – but there are no jobs or family (childcare).
A three bed house for £130k where you live might well be highly unusual. I've just bought a 5-bed property for £162.
As our biscuity friend says, this is all about choice. You are choosing to live in one of the most affluent and expensive parts of the country. Having children is (generally supposed to be) a choice. Your career path is a choice. And it is of course well documented that everyone North of Dudley is unemployed.
Cut the private landlords out and let Councils take control of social housing again.
Why are these mutually exclusive?
Are you arguing that the only reason councils cannot "take control of social housing" is because of all those pesky landlords? Only I'm fairly certain that's not their main barrier to entry here.
A while back I asked "why is BIL so vilified?" and I've had a big long list of problems which, whilst most are genuine problems which need addressing, none of them seem to me to actually be the fault of private landlords. The only valid gripe seems to be an objection to capitalism.
Brilliant, move away so we can carry on profiteering from people trying to access the most basic amenitie.
Or how about the landlord takes a little less profit – outrageous I know. Look at @5lab numbers if you are unsure if this is possible.
this is happening. In the last 5 years the following tax rules have come in :
20% tax on mortgage payments for (most) BTL
3% additional stamp duty for BTL
increase in tax you pay if you owned a house, lived in it, then flogged it
there have also been changes to make it harder to evict tenants, and other costs lumped onto the landlord (right to live in the UK, no fees chargable, etc etc)
there has been almost zero complaints about this - I think the taxes will continue rising until the total number of privately rented properties stops rising, or starts falling - its an easy way to pull more money into the treasury and help lives of FTBers. I don't disagree with this, it is a good thing to balance the market
Or how about the landlord takes a little less profit – outrageous I know. Look at @5lab numbers if you are unsure if this is possible.
check mattoab's tale from a few pages back. Struggling to evict people, who pay no rent for months. Landlord needs to make some money to account for scum like this. And people who have done nothing wrong (future renters) are paying for it.
Completely unworkable, pie in the sky suggestion:
Each month, (and by agreement of both parties) some of your rent goes into a pot which is returned to you when you move out, as long as you dont fail to pay the rent and dont trash the place.
This could then serve as the deposit to buy, you and a mortgage lender would know what is in your pot.
Would need an independent party to hold the money, much like the damage deposit scheme. Hopefully it could pay a paltry bit of interest too.
that already exists. You pay CGT on any property you own that is not your primary property, and if you live in a property then rent it, you pay CGT on a sliding scale based on how long you lived there.
Think he means you'd pay CGT on your primary residence as well. Seems fair to me and would definitely slow down the market. Maybe you could ring fence that money and put it back into social housing. So as BTL pull out as it becomes an illogical investment, these properties could come back into public ownership.
And the stamp duty bung, maybe stop doing stuff like that?
Also, think its fair to criticise the shit landlords, but ultimately govt policy is to blame for btl
Brilliant, move away so we can carry on profiteering from people trying to access the most basic amenitie.
Or choose to stay and suck up the fact that you're living in the most expensive part of the country.
I'd love to live 200 miles South of where I am currently. Know why I don't? I can't afford it.
Ooh, I know, you could move to Burnley and become a landlord. (-:
I'm in my thirties now and during my twenties 70% of my pay went on rent and associated bills before I even ate. Thankfully in my late twenties I changed careers and got a promotion to a wage above the previously discussed average and could really start saving enabling me to buy a few years ago.
It's only been mentioned briefly, but the availability of 100% or more than 100% mortgages pre 2008 allowed a few of my older friends to get mortgages in those days, I would have done it but couldn't get the couple of grand it required for the associated fees together in a short enough space of time. Even a 100% mortgage back then would have been cheaper then my rent! Even though mortgage rates are lower now but property prices are much higher, my first few years of mortgage payments were more than what pre 2008 100% would have been due to the increase in property prices.
So where do you draw the line? What house price makes it fair to the poor? Make all first time buyers houses £50k? Even at that level there would be hundreds of thousands who still couldn’t afford a house.
£50K would be a mortgage of what £250 a month, i.e. a quarter of one persons minimum wage. Are you sure there wouldn't be loads of people who could not afford to buy that £50k house.
The only valid gripe seems to be an objection to capitalism.
Nonsense, it's an objection to a warped version of predatory capitalism applied to a basic human right.
Ooh, I know, you could move to Burnley and become a landlord. (-:
This problem is heading your way, then will you be suggesting moving out the country ?
check mattoab’s tale from a few pages back. Struggling to evict people, who pay no rent for months. Landlord needs to make some money to account for scum like this. And people who have done nothing wrong (future renters) are paying for it.
I've been working in the refurbishment of social housing for the majority of the last 20 years and i'd confidently wager that there are way more bad tenants in the world than there are evil landlords.
I wouldn't risk being a landlord after i've seen some of the devastation caused by some people to rented properties.
I'd estimate that most large social housing providers, at any given time, have at least 5% to 10% of their properties void awaiting repairs to make them habitable.
Are you sure there wouldn’t be loads of people who could not afford to buy that £50k house.
They might be able to afford it but they wouldn't be able to buy one on the south coast. If a decent house did cost anything like that then nobody would build new ones, nobody would sell the one they own and if one did somehow come on the market there would be thousands of people trying to buy it.
The whole system needs a massive shake up, starting with a load more social housing but that won't happen anytime soon.
this is happening. In the last 5 years the following tax rules have come in :
20% tax on mortgage payments for (most) BTL
3% additional stamp duty for BTL
increase in tax you pay if you owned a house, lived in it, then flogged itthere have also been changes to make it harder to evict tenants, and other costs lumped onto the landlord (right to live in the UK, no fees chargable, etc etc)
Agreed, these are good steps, but I suspect that rents have also risen to balance some of it out.
Or choose to stay and suck up the fact that you’re living in the most expensive part of the country.
I’d love to live 200 miles South of where I am currently. Know why I don’t? I can’t afford it.
Not quite as simple as that though is it? Where you live isn't an easy choice for lots of people, heavily influenced by family, friends and work. Seem legitimate to seek correction for some of these things. In the same way it's legitimate for some areas to seek correction in underinvestment in their economies.
ah yes, renters are scum was waiting for this. - is it possible you are only seeing the worse cases as this is your job?
The new changes outlined by 5lab are very welcome, but rents still raise year on year.
Why would you give stamp duty tax breaks at a time like this, while ignoring 3 million people that were not covered by any furlough scheme. We are getting towards the tipping point where the majority of people will be renting - things will change then
This problem is heading your way, then will you be suggesting moving out the country ?
...have you every been to Burnley! 🙂