[Closed] What makes a man in 2017?

Using the term bum rape is to view something childishly?

It's all nonsense. The only experience that being male allows is one of priviledge. Everyone says so. It's ideological orthodoxy.

sometimes I wonder if Robert Webb is actually Jeremy from Peep Show.

Ah hols2 beat me to it.

why men struggle to maintain adult friendships and why they are more likely than women to kill themselves

Do they?

Anyone would think Webb had a book out which has been serialised on Radio 4 all week.

Shitty comment Rob.

Not funny.

Any context for those of us who have no idea what the "being-a-man festival" is about?

Groans for the first person to say it's about how to be a man.

A festival for people who hang out in "men's sheds" discussing, worrying and fretting about their masculinity or lack thereof instead of just getting on and enjoying life?

A Man's a Man for A' That

Any context for those of us who have no idea what the "being-a-man festival" is about?

It's about engaging with the idea of masculinity in the modern era, something which has been utterly ignored or viewed with derision.

It's about engaging with the idea that masculinity is not homogenous; that there are many forms of expression many of which are denuded and looked down on by all areas of society (men and women).

I guess it would be about challenging dogma and orthodoxy.

I imagine/hope it would be to discuss the difficult issues that men genuinely experience.

Basically it's meninism. I'm tempted to go.

It's about engaging with the idea of masculinity in the modern era, something which has been utterly ignored or viewed with derision.

Pretty sure I've avoided engaging with this for the last 50 years without any down side...

Pretty sure I've avoided engaging with this for the last 50 years without any down side...

I'm not sure how that would be possible. If you're male then whatever choice you've made about how you want to express yourself or what kind of person you want to be, then at some level you will have engaged with the notion of masculinity, even if you've not done it at a conscious level.

If you're not male then unless you've lived exclusively in a world with no other males, you will similarly have engaged with the notion of masculinity at some point, again, even if that was not a conscious decision.

I agree though that these terms (masculinity, femininity etc) are pretty nebulous and for many people that makes them unimportant. But I can't think of a time when it was more important than now to be discussing what masculinity actually means and how it's expressed.

I've learned to drink, and I've learned to smoke, and I've learned to tell a dirty joke.

But if that's all there is, then there's no point for me.

then at some level you will have engaged with the notion of masculinity

Possibly, but then I wouldn't know how to (nor have any interest) in defining masculinity. It just seems archaic to even want to.

All the important things like work ethic, social responsibility are (or should be) independent of your sex.

All the important things like work ethic, social responsibility are (or should be) independent of your sex.

I quite agree. I think where, with respect, you might be missing something though, is that the expression of those things, i.e. how you go about representing work ethic, social responsibility etc, is not homogenous and men and women frequently find it easier to express these things in different ways.

You can be socially responsible in many different ways.

So a good example is how poorly society tends to reward men for being good fathers but how highly it rewards them for being successful at work (to the point of sociopathy, which is deeply unhealthy for everyone concerned).

I also think your statement ignores the connection between behaviour and body chemistry. Testosterone for example has a very specific effect that is inaliable; you can't ignore it but you also don't have to be a slave to it. Similarly, there is something going on that tends to make men less agreeable but also less neurotic. Again, this is a reality of a broad, measured difference between men and women. It's small but significant, which makes at least asking the question, what does it mean to be a man/mascline highly relevant.

What makes a man in 2017?

Having a special stick for stirring paint

Basically it's meninism. I'm tempted to go.

My experience of "meninists" on the Internet would lead me to believe that's akin to wanting to celebrate having blonde hair and blue eyes by joining the Hitler Youth.

Testosterone for example has a very specific effect that is inaliable; you can't ignore it but you also don't have to be a slave to it.

I don't disagree, but defining masculinity won't have the slightest difference on my testosterone levels nor probably any effect on how it affects my behaviour.

Again, this is a reality of a broad, measured difference between men and women. It's small but significant

Again, don't disagree, but I still don't see any need to define masculinity, just seems like pointless navel gazing.

On a lighter note, the wife have me a copy of The Husband for xmas a while back, which I came across this morning, probably as good a guide as any...

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We should all aspire to be this guy...

My experience of "meninists" on the Internet would lead me to believe that's akin to wanting to celebrate having blonde hair and blue eyes by joining the Hitler Youth.

Yes there's a lot of that about. The term 'meninism' though is as broad as say 'feminism', and at it's own extremes, the latter is about as bonkers as the far right meninists you refer to.

Yea, weird.

Testosterone levels steadily decline in men from the age of about 20. If testosterone is a marker of a man, then you’re all steadily being less of one.

Rachel

Testosterone levels steadily decline in men from the age of about 20. If testosterone is a marker of a man, then you’re all steadily being less of one.

No one said that testosterone was a 'marker' for masculinity.

allthegear - Member

Testosterone levels steadily decline in men from the age of about 20. If testosterone is a marker of a man, then you’re all steadily being less of one.

Rachel

That's not entirely correct. The number is more like 30 and although testosterone does decline as we get older it's in the range of about 1% per year. Environmental effects have a much bigger impact on testosterone than aging so some point in life most men will enter full time employment, they will have children. So they'll become less physically active, more stressed, sleep less and gain weight.

Basically life is going to throw you a perfect storm of contributing factors which will cause your testosterone to decrease.

footflaps - Member

Again, don't disagree, but I still don't see any need to define masculinity, just seems like pointless navel gazing.

I am assuming this attempt to define masculinity isn't about sitting around scratching your beard wondering if you are manly enough. Presumably it's to try and help concerned men figure out their place in a world where they are being told more and more often that they are the cause of all society's ills and that all masculinity is toxic.

masculinity is toxic.

Did you see the comments that referenced exactly this in regard to the proposed remake of Lord of the Flies but with an all female group?

Anyway, top of the list of things we need to discuss is why almost 80% of all suicides are men.

where they are being told more and more often that they are the cause of all society's ills and that masculinity is toxic.

I don't see much if any of that, what I do see is equality idiotically being misrepresented as a an attack on men (or white men if we include racial equality).

MSP - Member

I don't see much if any of that, what I do see is equality idiotically being misrepresented as a an attack on men (or white men if we include racial equality).

I don't see much equality being idiotically misrepresented as an attack on men but I do see information being misrepresented and twisted, or indeed outright lies about the levels of ineqaulity people experience and these are being used to lobby opinion and effect change.

I also see people explicitly stating that we need to end capitalism, smash the patriarchy and put an end to male oppression and white privilige. It would be idiotic to assume that people who's stated aim is to end civilization as we know it are benign in their intentions.

Anyway, top of the list of things we need to discuss is why almost 80% of all suicides are men.

Well quite.

Well I reckon I had **** all testosterone at 30, so 30 odd years later I may as well be a woman. Not that I care, I quite like suspenders.

Well I reckon I had **** all testosterone at 30, so 30 odd years later I may as well be a woman. Not that I care, I quite like suspenders.

I think some people really over think things. I've never wondered about what it is to be a man, faced any kind of prejudice, worried about testosterone or felt like I've been blamed for anything. The suicide thing though, that is extremely saddening and cause for concern.

Edit - I get blamed when things get broken around the house. Mainly because it's me that breaks them

All smacks a bit of a white person saying what a hard time they have been white and living in the UK.

I think some people really over think things.

Whenever somebody mentions white privilege it always makes me think of this. Not anything to do with this thread, sorry, but a very on point and funny song

Edit - and I agree wholeheartedly with this

but really we're all different and there's no "should" about it.

kerley - Member

All smacks a bit of a white person saying what a hard time they have been white and living in the UK.

And yet just look at how many people on this forum start threads about depression, how many people identify with others who state they are having trouble with depression or the number of people who start threads under pseudonyms about how their lives are falling apart.

Given the generally accepted social status of the majority of forum posters this should probably be renamed whitemalepriviligetrackworld and yet unhappiness and depression seems rife. Perhaps all these privileged men complaining about their lives should just go quietly into a corner and kill themselves?

I was thinking the same thing. There seems to be a bit of angst around what a man should be like, and what a woman should be like, but really we're all different and there's no "should" about it.

This and lots of it. Am I privileged? Dunno. Didn't feel like it growing up in that council flat. Again, couldn't care less if people think I am or not.

but really we're all different and there's no "should" about it.

Again, no one has said anything of the sort Vickypea. I have explicitly stated that the need for a debate about masculinity is that it's not homogenous. It's also not really talked about, actually not talked about at all.

We talk a lot about feminism though and that's good because debate is important.

And yet just look at how many people on this forum start threads about depression,

Yes, quite.

ABout 15 years ago my uncle's wife, with whom we were all close and was the love of his life, was diagnosed with cancer. It was horrible for everyone but mostly for him and his wife.

Every time I met up with them, they took a lot of pain to emphasise that no matter how bad their situation was, that didn't mean other people's problems or pain was any less relevant or real.

The worst ills that one member of society experiences does not mean that other, lesser ills are any less important.

Again, no one has said anything of the sort Vickypea.

I didn't mean on this thread, but I didn't make that clear, sorry.

. I have explicitly stated that the need for a debate about masculinity is that it's not homogenous. It's also not really talked about, actually not talked about at all.

sadly to be a man in 2017 you have to be as female as possible without going full trans gender