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What is odd to my way of thinking is why we have the national news, especially the BBC, reporting multiple quite small incidents across Scottish cities when there was zero reporting across England.
Zero. Really?
Nope, doesn't feel right and I don't believe it. Reporting bias seems more likely, another example of anti Scottish government from the national broadcaster, yet again.
Why would somebody living in a deprived comunity have a spare 2k for a mountain bike?
I read Bruce Wees post as Sarcasm!
But unrest just seems so wasteful – those who need to hear are not the ones or community you are harming.
They have no way to get the people who need to hear to even be bothered to send a lackey to listen.
In fact, i'd not be surprised if anyone from that community genuinely got within conversational earshot (rather than shouting abuse from a distance) of those in power, they'd likely be leaving in a police van.
Excepting things like photoshoots in the run up to an election.
This is pretty much the only way they have to voice their displeasure. And if stuff gets broken, the council might eventually repair/replace it. If they don't it'll just get left until it's useless. So a small benefit.
Why would somebody living in a deprived comunity have a spare 2k for a mountain bike?
Doesn't everyone have that kind of money to spare? I mean, how do people get by?
Wait a minute! I always thought people only rode hardtails because they were an aesthetic choice. Do you mean some people ride them because they can't afford rear suspension!?
If they would just go out an buy an entry level mountain bike for £2K they could have hours of fun instead of entertaining themselves in this anti-social way
A lot of them do have quite decent mountain bikes. They just didn’t pay for them.
Reporting bias seems more likely, another example of anti Scottish government from the national broadcaster, yet again.
The idea that the BBC have refused to report similar incidents of the police being attacked in England because they are only interested in negative stories which involve Scotland is a new conspiracy theory to me.
And also highly unlikely to be true imo.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-67320768
The difference being that the English regional stories don't make the National news Ernie.
Whereas the Scottish ones were highlighted in every bulletin all day on R2, R6 & BBC National news. Front page on BBC News website.
Get it..?
why through petrol bombs at them? I just don’t get it.
The Police don't deserve it, but these folks aren't rioting because; cops, the cops just happen to be there.
When the BBC doesn’t report on positive events in Scotland it’s anti-Scottish bias. But of course when they do report on negative events in Scotland it’s anti-Scottish bias.
FTFY
If you got all your Scottish news from the BBC you would have a very different view of Scotland compared to getting your news from a range of sources.
It would almost be like only getting your news from The Scotsman.
Another way of looking at it is why are the police in Niddrie not following the principle of policing by consent?
Manners and politeness cost nowt and go a considerable way to reducing tension between those that police and those that have nothing left to lose. (Yes it is difficult if someone is being rude but that is the police officers job, to diffuse any tension and maintain the King's Peace).
Whereas the Scottish ones were highlighted in every bulletin all day on R2, R6 & BBC National news. Front page on BBC News website.
Get it..?
Not really. I get very little news about Scotland, unless something unexpected has happened. Such as the police being petrol bombed by about 50 individuals.
You probably heard about the 15 year old girl stabbed to death in Croydon on her way to school in by a 17 year old school boy last month.
That was covered by the BBC, even though stabbings aren't unusual elsewhere.
I'm not racist or anything but when are moderate Scottish community leaders going to condemn the violence? There must be some good ones who want speak out about what's happening with the glamorisation of knife crime among their youth, but there seems to be a code of silence in their community. Areas like Niddrie are no go zones for the police
another example of anti Scottish government from the national broadcaster, yet again.
We want to see Scotland more on the national news! But only the stuff that makes us look good!
I actually heard that people with Islington accents were handing the kids fireworks and £20 notes to start trouble. It's a plot to make the SNP look bad.
I think that was sarcasm.
I don't know, it's so difficult to tell with some posters.
Just in case it wasn't,
There must be some good ones who want speak out about what’s happening with the glamorisation of knife crime among their youth, but there seems to be a code of silence in their community.
In the late 90s to late 00s in Glasgow I knew at least half a dozen people who had been either stabbed or chibbed. It seems like, if it's not a thing of the past, it's nothing like as bad as it once was.
I’m wrestling with motivations and reasons for civil unrest.
Does there have to be a specific motivation? In areas which have been neglected and forgotten and people's life opportunities and experiences are little more than grim survival with no hope of improvement sometimes just raging against whoever is closest to hand is the only available option. In this case (and most others) it's the police, in others it's the council, or even other emergency services. Having a riot is the easiest way to ensure the politicians take notice and do something. If you ask me they deserve some credit for specifically targeting the cops rather than just going on a random arson spree around the community.
Police really getting into the spirit of the new anti-protest laws.
https://twitter.com/JustStop_Oil/status/1721606822992175171
I’m not racist or anything but when are moderate Scottish community leaders going to condemn the violence?
Has anyone ever started a sensible sentence that way? what on Earth are you talking about? Who are these community leaders? What makes you convinced that they have been silent on the topic?
There must be some good ones who want speak out about what’s happening with the glamorisation of knife crime among their youth, but there seems to be a code of silence in their community.
this wasn’t about knife crime. Knife crime in Niddrie is far better than in many parts of the U.K. This was fireworks and petrol bombs, because it’s the time of year when “we” celebrate the failure of catholics overthrowing the Parliament by burning effigies and launching explosives.
Areas like Niddrie are no go zones for the police
nonsense there’s a police station about 1km from where the “trouble” was and officers from that station will regularly pass through niddrie on the way to calls in Niddrie and elsewhere. Community policing across Scotland has taken a hit because of budget constraints, but there are not no go zones for cops anywhere in Scotland.
Another way of looking at it is why are the police in Niddrie not following the principle of policing by consent?
what makes you think they weren’t?
Manners and politeness cost nowt and go a considerable way to reducing tension between those that police and those that have nothing left to lose.
I’m struggling to understand where getting fireworks and petrol bombs thrown at you falls on the politeness and tension spectrum! The footage I saw seemed to show police showing significant restraint in those circumstances.
(Yes it is difficult if someone is being rude but that is the police officers job, to diffuse any tension and maintain the King’s Peace).
not sure that phrase is actually used in police Scotland but how would you suggest Scotlands finest should achieve their similar objective of maintaining order, protecting lives and property, and preventing crime when faced with a group of youths armed with, and anti socially discharging fireworks?
Lol
Change Scots to Muslims. I can see the point he's making.
how would you suggest Scotlands finest should achieve their similar objective of maintaining order, protecting lives and property, and preventing crime when faced with a group of youths armed with, and anti socially discharging fireworks?
Well, to misquote from experience elsewhere, history didn't start on November 5. In my life I have had few interactions with the police, but they have been uniformly negative. They centered around a cyclist being hit by a vehicle, so you can imagine the general picture. If that sort of thing had happened day after day I can imagine I might be tempted to lob some bangers their way given the chance.
I can imagine I might be tempted to lob some bangers their way given the chance.
Really? So you'd throw pyrotechnics at a person who knows nothing about your issue and potentially had nothing to do with it but just happens to do the same job? How would you feel if they got injured had to pull out of the line and your house took a firework through the window and went up in flames? Who's fault?
I have had a few interactions with police in Edinburgh and used to work alongside them. the politeness, professionalism and restraint when dealing with bams is exemplary. Of course I am a nicely spoken white man but even so
How would you feel if they got injured had to pull out of the line and your house took a firework through the window and went up in flames? Who’s fault?
Mine, but that’s not really the point.
Personally I have been roughly manhandled by police with the intent to intimidate me, when I was only 14 it was mistaken identity but...it worked. I became scared and distrustful of police
Later on I ran a yh and was regularly in contact with police to call out the rescue team. The police were endlessly professional, friendly and thorough.
There's good and bad just like the rest of us, though the bad need to be identified and kicked out
OK highlandman - posh speaking. Received pronunciation and all that 🙂
What do kids who are born into broken homes and poverty on sink estates do to deserve this?
not sure that phrase is actually used in police Scotland but how would you suggest Scotlands finest should achieve their similar objective of maintaining order, protecting lives and property, and preventing crime when faced with a group of youths armed with, and anti socially discharging fireworks?
I said rude, not aggressive. There is a general disrespect shown to those considered lower class to the officer handling the interaction. Having that demonstrated to you day after day would engender a lack of respect and trust in the police service.
What is there to stop anyone from Niddrie from applying for a job?
What is the unemployment rate in Niddrie?
If you work for 37.5 hours at minimum wage, it gets you about £400 a week. How much is a 1 bed flat pcm in Niddrie? If you have a kid, how much is a 2 bed flat + babysitting + school breakfast clubs in Niddrie? What's the point of telling people in Niddrie to get a ****ing job if they can't even earn enough to support themselves working full time?
Mine, but that’s not really the point.
Not sure what the point is. Is it that these youths have mainly negative interactions with authority therefore this type of attack is justifiable.
Or is it you had a negative interaction and so felt you might feel justified in such an attack of the opportunity arose?
a no biscuits meeting
brilliant. love this term, ive not heard it before
onehundrethidiot
I think the point is in places like this the police are seen as the enemy not an ally / friend. this does not justify it but does perhaps explain it.
In our cosy middleclass world our interactions with the police are mostly positive. In their world the interactions are mostly negative
someone mentioned above attitudes towards cannabis and being busted. the middle class kid and the working class kid will get the same treatment if busted but the chances of being busted are much greater if you are from Niddrie than from balerno.
Is it that these youths have mainly negative interactions with authority therefore this type of attack is justifiable.
Understandable rather than justifiable.
I said rude, not aggressive. There is a general disrespect shown to those considered lower class to the officer handling the interaction. Having that demonstrated to you day after day would engender a lack of respect and trust in the police service.
I don't think you understand the reported timeline of events! Your general statement may be true about how the police and local people interact most days of the year, and that long term may not help the case when the police come to tell some NEDs to stop throwing fireworks around. But your earlier post said they should police with consent. Thats an easy phrase to throw around whenever the police seem to end up in conflict with the population. But they werent in conflict with the majority of people in Niddrie - they were there because those people called to say NEDs were being NEDs. Policing with consent does not mean never enforcing the law.
If they would just go out an buy an entry level mountain bike for £2k
Don't be silly. They wouldn't stoop to a £2k peasant bike, they'll be too busy wheelie-ing down the high street at rush hour on a Sur-on.
What do kids who are born into broken homes and poverty on sink estates do to deserve this?
It suits politicians to have tbem as "examples to be made of" in a 5 year election cycle, rather than invest in root causes with a 20 year pay back.
Morally reprehensible, short-sighted and ultimates more expensive.
I'd love to see a party campaign to address this a long term plan.
More cash - SNP? They have pumped a lot of money into deprived urban areas and put in a lot of support
<br />*ducks and covers*
squirrelking - my understanding is NED = non-eductated delinquant. Now it may be that the derivation/etymology has been added after the fact, but its how I have known the term since I first heard it used along side YUPPIE and DINKY in the 80's.
A lot of dispute about Ned. I think its a backronym ie after the event. I have seen a few explanations and the term is certainly much older than the 80s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_(Scottish)
the middle class kid and the working class kid will get the same treatment if busted but the chances of being busted are much greater if you are from Niddrie than from balerno.
I instinctively agree with the sentiment, but are kids still getting "busted" for mere possession of a "doobie" these days? About 25% of 16-24 yo Scottish people use drugs (excluding alcohol), and cannabis is the most popular drug of them all. Scottish police favour warnings over arrest/ charge/ prosecution for possession alone, and have done for years. I can't find any figures or even media reports of people being arrested for mere possession of cannabis in Scotland recently (tbf it wS just a couple of minutes of casual googling).
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/thousands-of-scots-caught-with-cannabis-let-off-with-a-warning-1445548
https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-crime-justice-survey-2019-20-main-findings/pages/18/
someone mentioned above attitudes towards cannabis and being busted. the middle class kid and the working class kid will get the same treatment if busted but the chances of being busted are much greater if you are from Niddrie than from balerno.
TJ - the same treatment? perhaps - although that doesn't guarantee the same outcome. The Lord Advocate allows cops to issue a recorded police warning for minor possession offences. How that discretion is applied is somewhat opaque, but even ignoring any bias by the cops, once you've been offered such a resolution you have a choice - accept it, or reject it and get reported to the fiscal. Affluent ned might get advice from parents - who may be better informed, can afford to get legal advice. Poor ned will only qualify for legal aid if he's in the cells, so his choice is get locked up for hours, talk to an over worked underpaid solicitor on the phone who will certainly not have time to understand the nuance of the circumstances of the accused/the alleged offence/quality of the evidence against him or perhaps follow the advice your parents/peers gave you of say nothing! Affluent ned's lawyer might talk them out of it completely (or in a case where a warning wasn't going to be offered talk them into a warning). If they both reject the police warning, the PF might offer a fixed penalty. Probably £100 to be paid in 28 days, no conviction recorded. Affluent ned has another escape option. Poor ned can't get that sort of money together in time to pay so will be in court. If affluent ned goes to court he can afford to be represented - even if he's bang to rights a good lawyer will milk the incompetence of the prosecution for minor offences and insist on proof of the substance, pick holes in corroboration etc where there's a good chance the crown will drop the case to focus on more important matters. Poor ned probably won't get legal aid for a simple possession case, so has to represent themselves. If both convicted in court, the poor ned is telling a story where they can't afford to pay a fine and will end up paying it off a little bit a week for 6 months or more, whilst the affluent one has the cash or has parents with the cash so its paid off immediately. Go back to your grim existence scraping by on even less for six months probably isn't going to teach any lessons or make you less likely to turn to drugs for an escape.
Good analysis poly
Pca
Simpke pessesion is not looked forbut come to the attention of police as a ned might well do and they find some action has to be taken. Thats where there is a higher chance of the ned being busted
I instinctively agree with the sentiment, but are kids still getting “busted” for mere possession of a “doobie” these days? About 25% of 16-24 yo Scottish people use drugs (excluding alcohol), and cannabis is the most popular drug of them all. Scottish police favour warnings over arrest/ charge/ prosecution for possession alone, and have done for years. I can’t find any figures or even media reports of people being arrested for mere possession of cannabis in Scotland recently (tbf it wS just a couple of minutes of casual googling).
Its much rarer than it was but still happens - perhaps they refuse the police warning, piss the cops off in some way etc. Potentially because of some historical record (how many warnings before a warning is pointless?). Probably most common to be prosecuted along side something else - so you get done for pissing up a close then the drugs added on top, or you get caught shoplifting and a drug charge too. You wont see media reports because the media don't bother going to the lower courts unless theres a celebrity there! Class A's are treated like this too now. Your Balerno bam is probably as likely to be in possession of cocaine as the Niddrie ned is cannabis!
Yeah sure it might still happen in theory - but that's my point. Where is the evidence to support this statement:
someone mentioned above attitudes towards cannabis and being busted. the middle class kid and the working class kid will get the same treatment if busted but the chances of being busted are much greater if you are from Niddrie than from balerno
if statistically speaking no-one is being busted for cannabis anyway? Half a million users a week in Scotland and how many arrests?
There are tons of reasons why growing up poor results in uneven and unfair treatment by the state compared to growing up rich. Is this one of them?