Ok, so it is The Sun, but this absolutely absurd for a civilised, developed nation. The Police have been very tolerant, why through petrol bombs at them? I just don’t get it.
I guess a water canon would infringe the human rights of the people throughing petrol bombs and fireworks at the Police.
Plenty more videos on YouTube. Great respect to the Police who were dealing with that situation last night.
Guy I know was in the fire brigade got a no biscuits meeting for temporarily losing control of his hose when coming under similar exuberance from local teens. A couple of which may have got damp.
👍
Sorry,I should have have also said " I blame Thatcher's government and what it set in motion ".
Certainly looks like a planned trap. Why water canons werent used is beyond me.
Guy I know was in the fire brigade got a no biscuits meeting for temporarily losing control of his hose when coming under similar exuberance from local teens. A couple of which may have got damp.
been there. Wee eck's maw on the phone to complain before we got back to stn that her wee darling came home wet and his designer TK max clobber and gymies were ruined 😂
Why water canons werent used is beyond me.
We do not have them in the UK. Dangerous weapons and do not fit with UK policing or law. Johnson bought some for london - never used as the police didn't want them IIRC and they are incompatible with UK law ( from memory)
Ok, so it is The Sun, but this absolutely absurd for a civilised, developed nation.
Civilised and developed? Do you get out much?
It's absurd that fireworks are available to the public.
Civilised and developed?
In Niddrie?
Didn't happen south of the border, guessing the SNP being so lenient to neds has led to this.
this absolutely absurd for a civilised, developed nation.<br /><br />
you’ve not been to Niddrie have you? It is absurd that pockets of deprivation and despair like Niddrie exist in one of the most affluent cities in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Niddrie is a shit hole because it’s ignored by local and national politicians; it’s ignored by them because it’s a shithole. Every city and council area in Scotland has a similar area. It doesn’t condone the behaviour, but water cannons won’t stop it - they wanted a battle, water cannon being deployed (even if not actually used) would be a “win” for the ring leaders. Sorting it, is a 20+ year challenge with many set backs along the way, and needs input from every area of government: housing, education, health, drugs, justice, economy, etc., not a job for the senior cop who is in charge on the night - although they probably deserve some credit for not escalating the situation.
Civil unrest isn't a new thing though is it?
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/london-riot-history/
I think that there is more noticeable crime whenever there is an economic downturn. We're just on the precipice right now if the middle east turns off the oil to western countries that back isreal. Add this on top of the war Ukraine and we could see it only getting worse.
Nah, more police is the answer to higher crime rates. So is arming the police, more police powers and longer prison terms*
*Sarcasm alert.
NIddrie is actually a lot better than it used to be in reality with the blocks of flats being demolished and replaced with smaller scale social housing. drug problem there is also much reduced so to say its been ignored is wrong. too little too late perhaps but its a hugely better place than 30 years ago. Huge investment in the area.
Civil unrest isn’t a new thing though is it?
I'm wrestling with motivations and reasons for civil unrest.
I would defend the right to civil disobedience and protest.
But unrest just seems so wasteful - those who need to hear are not the ones or community you are harming.
And civil unrest because the youngsters are basically bored and unhappy, well that seems to really harm your own community.
Lowlife will be lowlife.
Why water canons werent used is beyond me.
They’d have to buy some first.
Nothing new. A good documentary on BBC I-player just now. Street Gangs. Narrated by a former Airdrie gang member who got out. Got to univ. Got a book published goes back to see what current gang culture was like. Pretty much the way it always was is the answer.
As he says there were three ways out. Jail, death, or redemption. After a few friends died of overdoses - one in front of him he saw the light.
For the teachers here - he gives a lot of credit to his old English teacher who helped him get an A Higher English and get to university. There is a good scene where he meets his former head teacher.
It's been a regular bonfire night tradition in Halifax and Bradford for years. Firecrews are called out, then stoned and have fireworks thrown at them. Every year.
If you're going to go down, may as well have fun doing it?
We do not have them in the UK. Dangerous weapons and do not fit with UK policing or law. Johnson bought some for london – never used as the police didn’t want them IIRC and they are incompatible with UK law ( from memory)
Are they not criminalising themselves
No from their point of view it's inevitable
Just down the road from me, and until recently I worked in the area. Saw 4 police vans on their way last night but as TJ says it's changed a lot, and last night was actually an improvement on previous years in that other areas (Moredun, Pilton) don't seem to have had the same level of aggro, or perhaps it's just not made the news.
What about the petrol bombs?
Ask Cougar. He'll have the 'recipe' in his 'cookbook'
What is there to stop anyone from Niddrie from applying for a job? It does look very deprived, but why does that mean it is acceptable to through petrol bombs ?
Oh dear. where do you start with that. Lots of data on cycles of deprivation around if you actually want to know.
The laws in the UK are the problem.
*throw*
Sorry but "through" is worse than nails on a blackboard
Did someone mention deprived parts of Edinburgh and Thatcher?
Craigmillar: Down but not out (25 mins)
I walked from town to Portobello last year and I was genuinely shocked at how beaten up some parts of Restalrig and Craigentinny were.
What is there to stop anyone from Niddrie from applying for a job?
That wasn't you on Twitter the other day suggesting that the way to end homeless people sleeping on the street was for them to get jobs was it?
He’ll have the ‘recipe’ in his ‘cookbook’<br /><br />
I don’t ‘cook’, but even I know how to make an effective petrol bomb! Narrow necked bottles, boxes of tampons and a supply of your inflammable liquid of choice. Simples.
What is there to stop anyone from Niddrie from applying for a job?
Ah ha, the classic trap. Unemployment in Niddrie is high but it’s not 100%. There’s a lot of factors that your tiny sentence ignores. Let’s assume two equally competent candidates apply for the job, one of from Niddrie and one of from Balerno. Who gets the job? Society has bias too - prejudice at screening, prejudice on accent at interview, how well dressed/groomed etc. If they did get the job - can they get there (at the relevant times)? Does it take them longer or cost them more to get to main places of employment?
now that assumes that they would be qualified for the job - but years of deprivation mean equally able young people are less likely to achieve the same qualification when they live in areas of high deprivation. In affluent communities you might not have to apply for the job - connections can get you a rung on the ladder, now you have “experience” so on paper are more qualified than the Niddrie candidate. Their parents suffered the same barriers so the chances are they didn’t remain in education for long and have lower aspirations for you than the “luckier” kid <10 miles away.
If you both get stopped by the police and found to have £20 worth of cannabis on you - do you both get the same outcome, or do you now have a criminal conviction to make getting a job harder. If you grow up in a society where aspiration are low, will your ambitions be high? If everyone you know seems to break the law at least some of the time, why would you accept societal norms.
I could write essays about why it’s a cyclical phenomenon where the exceptions are the people who escape, usually by leaving, whilst everyone else is in a spiral to the bottom.
And no matter how hard you try, and how close you come to breaking the barriers in your way, people far luckier than you who believe their success in life comes not by quirks of birth but because somehow they are better will ask stupid ****ing questions like:
It does look very deprived, but why does that mean it is acceptable to through petrol bombs ?
When nobody suggested it was!
Your opening post seemed to suggest you were at least vaguely curious about how or why these sort of situations arise. As the thread developed you seem less keen on being enlightened and more interested in castigating those who have lost hope.
now the next stupid question is - if it’s that bad why don’t you just move? If you have a council tenancy it’s incredibly hard to do that. If you have a private tenancy you will pay massively more for a nicer area so unless you have already broken the cycle you can’t. even home owners get trapped as property prices in poverty estates inevitably don’t rise as much as aspirational ones.
TJ is right, all across Scotland there has been investment in the poorest areas; but all flavours of government face these sort of question to justify that spending from lucky people from lucky areas who have never faced the challenges these folk face and think their tax money should not be disproportionately diverted to areas where people aren’t trying to improve their own lives.
orangemad
Full Member
What is there to stop anyone from Niddrie from applying for a job?
Laziness? Is that the answer?
For someone who publicly claims to be a Christian you seem to have a rather callous, and dare I say it, unchristian attitude.
I know absolutely nothing about Niddrie but what I read concerning the incident was that the police were claiming about 50 individuals were involved. I am not sure how you can demonize a whole community on the basis of the actions of about 50 individuals.
And if the police don't have a water cannon on permanent standby in Niddrie waiting to quickly deal with 50 or so individuals it probably has to do with the fact it is not considered appropriate and useful, rather than anything to do with human rights, as you seem to believe.
For someone who publicly claims to be a Christian you seem to have a rather callous, and dare I say it, unchristian attitude.
**** it. If we are making sweeping generalisations and lazy intolerant attitudes.
Being hypocritic knocks DBAD into second place for rule 1 in Christianity.
I’m wrestling with motivations and reasons for civil unrest.
I would defend the right to civil disobedience and protest.
But unrest just seems so wasteful – those who need to hear are not the ones or community you are harming.
And civil unrest because the youngsters are basically bored and unhappy, well that seems to really harm your own community.
Why can't all these kids just do something constructive instead.
If they would just go out an buy an entry level mountain bike for £2K they could have hours of fun instead of entertaining themselves in this anti-social way.
