We are looking to move to somewhere a bit more remote and Mrs Cu dubh feels that she needs a 4WD car to be sure she can get to work OK in the depths of winter. Some of the roads she will be driving along will not be regulalrly gritted/ploughed. I don't have any issue with that but she decided she fancies a Mitsubishi Outlander. Nice vehicle but pretty expensive and pretty big too for a second car. She will have about a 60 mile round trip daily so would be looking for something economical-ish and reasonably comfortable for the hours drive each way. Obviously it needs to be reliable so that means fairly new. Ideally she should be able to fit her bike in it. My 2WD 407 can take both bikes if we are out together. She reckons she needs £10-15k for an Outlander depending on spec, age, mileage etc. I was hoping for less than £10k.
Suzuki Grand Vitara
Toyota RAV4
Mitsi Shogun
All depreciate hard, all jap so reliable, all fairly decent off road, all can fit a bike(s) in, all fairly sensible to own/run.
The Outlander is a bit more "style over substance" IMO.
Mitsubishi's are pretty expensive to service & maintain. My sister had a Shogun Pinin & it was ridiculously expensive for parts & normal servicing.
I'd say if you 'need' a 4x4, then you probably want to get it kitted out with some decent winter tyres to make the most of the 4wd capability.
How about a Subaru Forester or a Legacy estate? Would something like a Nissan X-Trail not be capable enough - I think they are reasonably capable on slippy terrain.
Audi Allroad? Volvo equivalent of the Allroad (can't remember what it's called)? Octavia 4x4?
Freelander 2? Should be able to pick up a Diesel one in the price range. Big improvement over the 1st gen ones, and very capable off road considering it's 'baby landy' status.
My wife has had a Freelander since new, no problems at all (coming up to 70k now). Its a TD4 auto, does over 30mpg and with perm four-wheel drive will pretty much get through anything she'll encounter.
Not cheap to service through LR, but fine elsewhere.
Honestly, you'd be better off with a Panda 4x4 and a cheap set of steel wheels plus winter tyres.
Not the quietest or the most spacious, but fine for a 30 mile drive, and economical with it. A 60 plate will cost you £8k and do 50mpg.
+1 Fiat Panda 4x4 + steel wheels and winter tyres. Will be far more capable in the snow than the Mitsubishi without spending more on the mitsu..
or Suzuki SX4, the 4x4 version.
or a subaru forester/legacy - bombproof reliability, go anywhere with winter tyres.
getting winter tyres is more important than the 4x4 bit for proper snow ability.
Freelander 2? Should be able to pick up a Diesel one in the price range. Big improvement over the 1st gen ones, and very capable off road considering it's 'baby landy' status.
Been looking at these too - £10k won't get you a Freelander 2. You need at least £15k and even then, it'll be a high miler.
br - so you are pleased with yours? Defenders, cool as they are, are just too crude and very slow on road. Freelander 2 seems a good bet.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I was wondering about the subaru option. She had looked at a diesel impreza but they are pretty new so expensive. I guess a legacy/forester would be cheaper to buy but I think they only come in petrol so would the fuel consumption not be pretty grim? I think I will probably be getting some snow tyres for my 407 but she is strongly of the view that she really needs the 4WD. The earlier snow tyre thread was really helpful on the subject of tyres.
Petrol Subarus are pretty cr4p on fuel - had a Forester XT on loan for 24 hours. Very good overall but mpg was low 20s at best. Legacy is pretty thirsty too - for all engines.
Or you could buy an older, high-miles Volvo XC90. My 2004 model has 110k miles on it, has been [i]utterly[/i] reliable, and gets 33-35mpg.
My sister lives in rural Dorset and Is an on call medic, she has a Subaru Forester which she says is ideal and has never let her down the only problem she has had has been ground clearence, she had a Suzuki Grand Vitara before and it coped in floods easier. Don't know if a Panda would be okay, I drove a Panda 100hp the other day and loved it.
I get around the smae as nickf out of my xc90. The xc70 gets better mpg and is normally cheaper to buy. The awd system works very well.
Whatever Honda is appropriate, probably a CRV.
I like Hondas and there is one for every one of these threads.
+1 Fiat Panda 4x4 + steel wheels and winter tyres. Will be far more capable in the snow than the Mitsubishi without spending more on the mitsu..
+1 - I live in more or less the situation you're describing. This combo is cheaper and more user friendly. Winter tyres on more or less anything are probably sufficient as long as you have some sort of road.
If you need a 'proper' 4x4 to get in (i.e. you're climbing over stuff and up banks) you'll also need to know how to drive it properly, which unless you do a fair bit of off road year round you tend to forget how to do.
Something like a Jimny might be a decent option though? Considering on of those myself, get an old one and just kick the dents out every so often.
Brassneck - wife has a Jimny -55 reg with 23k miles.
Super cheap (obviously), bomproof and extremely good off road. Might need something bigger soon though.
Ignore anything which is not permamently 4WD.
Have anything from Subaru. I had a 5dr Impreza with low and high ratio gears and hill brake. Stuck winter tyres on it, living in the hills it could get up and down any road incline in the snow and ice. Only decent snow drifts would defeat it. I got circa 30 mpg - however it was the older 04 reg 2.0 petrol.
CRV is worth a look. Winter tyres (or at least a good "all season" one) worth doing too.
I disagree about needing permanent 4WD - only necessary if you're doing proper off-road. For road-based cars, it makes far more sense to only be driving two wheels the 99.9% of the time you have traction and engage the others when needed.
Petrol Subarus are pretty cr4p on fuel - had a Forester XT on loan for 24 hours. Very good overall but mpg was low 20s at best.
That will be the 'XT' bit (turbo). Non turbo much better. Very pleased with my Forester, but no mpg figures (about £40 to fill after 330 miles if that helps.)
Ignore anything which is not permamently 4WD
Ermmm... this is pasted from a website but...
[i]Full-time 4WD doesn't provide as much mobility off-road as part-time 4WD does, because the system is designed such that it allows a set of wheels (front or rear) to spin if they don't have traction.
Part-time 4WD gives you better traction on slippery surfaces because the front and rear sets of wheels are locked together. Thus, this is the optimum choice for most off-road conditions.[/i]
Non perm 4wd cars include the early Defenders, Jeep Wranglers, Nissan Patrol and Suzuki Jimny - all very very good off road.
^^^ I was gonna mention that, but wasn't sure if the XT was just a trim spec. or whether it denoted the turbo version (like John Parker drove - think he used to get mid 20's out of it, but that had the auto gearbox).
Do Daihatsu's depreciate like a stone? That Terios that Clarkson ragged about while being chased by 'the hunt' seemed to cope quite well with his ham-fisted off-roading.
My 2004 Legacy Estate 2.0 has average 32 mpg in the 18 months I've owned it. on runs it's about 38, round town is 20's.
^ slip diff vs transfer box
I say Driving course + winter tyre.
Not meaning to a have a go at the op but why do the British always claim to need (when they really mean want) a big 4x4 but in North Europe with far more snow they are less common?
Mum has an Audi Quattro exactly for this, it manages pefectly. She isn't the most confident driver to begin with, so it helps on the bad days. On serious days, I believe, it is better to stay in anyway. Work really isn't that important, unless she's a brain surgeon or something like that. The driving isn't the problem, stopping is, so the big beasts mentioned above are likely to give her more problems that they solve.
Not meaning to a have a go at the op but why do the British always claim to need (when they really mean want) a big 4x4 but in North Europe with far more snow they are less common?
Very true.
Bro in law lives in Sweden. They have to (by law) fits Winter tyres in November. He drives a fairly standard Volvo V70 and never has any issues.
Surfmat
The wife is very happy with her Freelander (its the facelift one), and tbh I can't really find anything that's really 'wrong' with it either. It'll happily act as a car (although not as stable nor quiet - but that could just be the diesel element that I'm not used to), and will also get out of most trouble plus can tow a horse-box and 2 horses across rough ground. Pretty easy to clean the horse-shit out of it, at least for the valets anyway 😉
The Freelander 2 is a bigger vehicle all-round, plus far more expensive for the same engine version. We bought ours when they were on the 'turn', and went for the deal of an older one knowing we were going to keep it.
^^^ I was gonna mention that, but wasn't sure if the XT was just a trim spec. or whether it denoted the turbo version (like John Parker drove - think he used to get mid 20's out of it, but that had the auto gearbox).
Yes, it's a turbo. I spoke to JP a few weeks ago and he was still moaning about poor mpg, so much so he bikes in some days!
Another thing with the turbo is you don't get a high/low ratio gearbox.
4x4 normal car, or even 2wd normal car with a spare set of winter wheels. You DO NOT need 4x4 even in the snow for tarmac lanes, unless you are expecting a foot of snow at a time, and then you're in trouble even with a 4x4.
60 miles a day in a 4x4 is gonna cost you and the planet dearly.
When I lived in Finland 4x4s were rarer than they are here. Winter tyres all round tho.
Plus, loads of people in 'the countryside' drive around in normal 2wd cars unless they are actual farmers needing to go round fields.
Front wheel drive is all you need.
On the really bad snow days just get her to pull a sicky!
For the sort of non snowy day mileages you are doing, I'd buy a big cheap 4x4 and an enconomical other car.
Fuel costs are the biggest burden of running a big 4x4 but the advantages of a versatile workhose offset that. I wouldn't run one everyday.
I bought this Shogun at auction 4 years ago for £1500 for working on the estate. Pattern parts are as cheap as chips. Its been reliable. Not everyone's cup of tea, but much better than the Discovery it replaced.
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
the advantages of a versatile workhose offset that. I would run one everyday
Yeah, but the OP is commuting, not towing heavy loads or getting sheep from the top field etc etc.
Molegrips, I edited that to wouldn't.
br - what trim did you get?
Looks to me like it must be at least "DS" but XSE looks useful too. HSE a bit OTT? Seems to add lot to the price. We'd be looking at a lowish mileage post 2007 Freelander 2.
^^^ I was gonna mention that, but wasn't sure if the XT was just a trim spec. or whether it denoted the turbo version
It was the 177bhp 2.0XT version. Definitely quite nippy. The 2.5XT is properly rapid!
I'm also curious why folks that live in the back of beyond seem to be determined to take off to work in blizzards?
Ah yes, apologies.
I've been admiring the Freelander 2s in the carpark at the hotel lately. I'd consider one for towing a caravan but only if I could afford it as a third car. I wouldn't drive one normally.
Makes for an expensive holiday outfit, but still cheaper than a campervan 🙂
SM
It was the 177bhp 2.0XT version. Definitely quite nippy. The 2.5XT is properly rapid!
Yeah, bloke I used to work with replaced his Corolla T-Sport with one of these (2litre turbo), as the Corolla was rubbish at getting to his favourite fishing spots without spinning it's wheels all over the place.
He likes the Forester and it is fairly rapid, but generally talks about the fuel economy through gritted teeth.
The non-turbo 2litre richmars has is not too far off a standard 2 litre car in terms of economy - probably just the aerodynamics (and perhaps weight) that hinders it a bit.
Surf Mat - without getting into AWD/4WD debate, what i meant was more old school stuff where you have to manually engage 4WD from 2WD.
Scamper - my Dad's old Shogun (the boxy one) had manual transfer as did the Toyota Hi-Lux pick ups we used as site vehicles when I was a geotec engineer. Both needed you to get out and twist the hubs (!!) to select 4WD.
Both were pretty decent off road. Not Defender beaters but pretty capable.
Our modest little Jimny is switchable (via button) from 2WD to 4WD and 4WD HIGH and it's almost unbeatable off road. Does make it pretty average on road though.
Older Defenders were switchable too - and they are some of the best off roaders.
Exactly Surf Mat - "unbeatable" off road which is not required by the OP i think. These systems, also eat tyres apparently and the OP won't want to suddenly hit on road snow/ice in effectively a tall RWD box. 🙂
I think the OP's wife fancies a 4x4 and is trying to justify it...
Weight kills tyres more.
Jimny - 23k miles, original tyres, loads of wear left.
Any of the massive SUV type 4x4 (Q7, X5, etc) eat tyres in under 10k miles. Some Q7s are getting 5k!!
But I get what you're saying - ultimate off road ability is not needed.
My mum's a community/rural nurse and uses a Jimny too!
Molgrips, I think you are right. I am not convinced of the 'need' for the 4WD but it is part of the deal for her agreeing to the house move that I want more than she does.
Well prepare to reach into your wallet for all that fuel then.
Buy a 4wd/AWD if it's what you want.
Just to set some 'facts' straight about large 4wds & tyre wear, my (admittedly not hard-driven) XC90 does at least 25k from a set of tyres, and I don't take them anywhere close to the legal limit. Obviously if you have a high power vehicle, boot it all the time, and do a lot of heavy braking, tyre wear will be higher.
The other thing to think about is size; if you're in the sticks and there's a lot of pootling along country roads, a smaller car is a definite advantage. Back to the Panda; I drove one a year or so back and was very pleasantly impressed. No idea how good the 4wd system is, but I still see a good number of Mk 1 Panda 4wds in the Alps, so I guess they're well-proven.
i cant believe nobody has sugegsted the octavia 4x4
