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You’re entitled to disagree.
And to be clear, I’m not saying for everybody just for most people.
As what I wrote in the bit you didn't quote, I don't disagree per se. Maybe I'm misreading you but you seem a touch black and white and while I think you are correct to an extent and clearly know the subject, you seem to be over-simplifying things which I don't think helps.
There’s a lot of fat blaming going on here.
If that was directed at me then I don't think it was very fair. I didn't 'blame' anybody in my post (and absolutely do not in real life). I specifically said I don't have any more willpower and that it was probably luck on my part and could indeed be my genetics or environment. I was - probably clumsily - attempting to counter your anecdote about genetics being the definite cause in your friend's case and pointing out a difference between me and my family members was a way to do so. I think it's important to be able to counter arguments without immediately being shut down by terms like 'fat shaming'.
@peteza - it wasn't directly aimed at you, apologies for any confusion.
Brief sound bites are somewhat the nature of forums, so complex topics like this do get oversimplified.
As mentioned previously @lorax seems very credible on this subject, and seems to broadly agree with me.
Obesity has been portrayed as a personal choice/self control issue for years now. I suspect because it fulfills many organisation's agendas to do so, but the problem is, there's very little evidence that this is the case.
And as mentioned by myself previously, it is strongly correlated with poverty.
They’re lucky with their genetics.
Agreed, I have two female step children, who have the same mother but different fathers, their body type is so different that everyone is blown away when the find out they are half sisters. No amount of exercise and dieting or lazing around and over eating would ever make them the same size & shape.
I could write lots and give my opinions (lots) on this. However I don't have the energy or motivation to.
However. As a resident of France for the last 16 years, and not in expat honeypots:
-I'm not convinced there's a big difference between poverty rates in France and UK. Whilst I'm not discounting there is a lot of poverty and more and more people are struggling, we in developed countries are actually living in a period of Decadence.
-In France, generally we eat seasonally. It can get a bit frustrating at times...
-Anything with any element of process in it is I feel expensive, and generally not as branded as in the UK
-France isn't tied up in class isms with regards to choice of supermarket or whether buy and eat organic etc. Re. organic it is (in my experience) purely down to 'can i afford it?'.
-Our veg and fruit, generally is by weight not by plastic bags (observation by my 14 year old french born daughter on a visit to UK to see Family)
-People generally stick to meals, and restaurants are shut at non-meal times
-Sauces 'and sh*T': the number of jars of sauces, condiments etc.at my parents in UK was jaw dropping: their fridge is full due to them. Yet my Mum is controlling my dad in terms of the amount of salt from the shaker he puts on his food (gout...): the night we turned up he was having shop bought fishcakes and baked beans... I think the only things I have 'sauce wise' are jam, pesto, ketchup, vineagar.
-Lot less opportunity to eat/ snack out: you want a coffee: go to a café. There won't be cake..... we were at a park and ride car park to go into Norwich last week, and both my teenage children asked why there was a café at the car park....
I also think the NHS/GP’s have a role to play in by taking a more holistic longer-term view of a patient. If you have a long term untreated but treatable chronic condition it should be prioritised.
For instance, I’ve been diagnosed with needing a knee replacement for the last 10 years and due to this I cannot walk more than 1k without pain with reliance on paracetamol but the year prior to the diagnosis, I did a half marathon and was regularly playing 7’s rugby. But I now cycle, weights and swim, so this offsets this a little.
But I have friends who have given up exercise as its too painful and their health has deteriorated when they could be treated.
I also think the NHS/GP’s have a role to play in by taking a more holistic longer-term view of a patient.
We'll be needing more GPs then.
Will the watershed ban on Junk Food adverts planned for October 2025 make much difference? At least it’s a small pushback on processed foods.
Just back from a couple of weeks in France and the biggest change we noticed on our return, apart from not having to say “on the right” every time we set off, was the number of grossly obese people at the first services we stopped at, it was striking.
IME the French don't have this bizarre British concept of giving their children different food to adults.
Tax the crap out of unhealthy food and subsidise heathy food not just in supermarkets, but restaurants, takeout, etc. Make it so expensive that you have to consider alternatives.
Stop brow beating people about the negative aspects of obesity/sedentary lifestyles and communicate the beneficial outcomes of healthier lifestyles more betterly
A few successful claims against employers who insist people are glued to a screen 8-10 hrs a day
Investment in and subsidised access to municipal resources, pools, tennis courts, athletics tracks etc, with a less "elitist" approach to club sports
Better support for those with existing chronic/mental health conditions who struggle to overcome the barriers to participation in active stuff
Just back from a couple of weeks in France
The French are getting fatter as well, their traditional foods and eating habits are being replaced with ultra processed versions, and snacking, they're just coming from an historically lower point.
Tax the crap out of unhealthy food
The issue is what do you call unhealthy food to be able to tax it.
I am Type 2 diabetic, it runs in my family and i developed it after COVID (others in my family developed it after cancer), seemingly T2 has become the punch line to many a comedians jokes that start with piles of sweets etc. I cycled 500km in a day the month before that bout of COVID, and through understanding the disease, have never been medicated and placed myself back in remission within 2 months.
My daughter is Type 1 diabetic so will be on insulin for life, but i keep her alive stuffing sweets down her throat in the middle of the night often, so are sweets unhealthy to her?
But any marathon runner or ultra-cyclist, probably has a diet extremely high in simple- processed carbs, so what is right for one, is not right for all, it is understanding what you are consuming, why you are consuming, when you consume it etc.
But i realise these are extreme examples, but how do you tax a Mars bar for a person who never leaves the sofa, but don't tax a Science in Sport energy bar for the marathon runner?
Our food bill has gone up considerably since we started to try and eat as "cleanly" as we could, and we didn't eat badly before, i even try and grow as much veg as possible, so i do realise that often ultra-processed food is often the cheapest.
For my mind, so much of it comes down to education and to government policy.
You only have to look at the average Dutch person, compared to the average Brit, there is a government that in the 70's looked at the fact that the car was becoming king and took a drastic step to address it with infa-structure for active cycling, walking etc.
And education, i am on a number of Type 2 diabetic FB pages, and it is very clear that a large percentage of people don't know what a carbohydrate is, they cannot actually read the food label on the pack and know what it means, they have no idea the difference between saturated fats and monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, and for a large proportion, they swing from one diet (keto etc) to another and spend the whole time moaning that their GP won't prescribe them the latest GLP-1 drug to make them lose weight, but suggest exercise or reading up on the disease, and they always have an excuse as to why they cannot.
Many people simply cannot cook, they don't congregate around the table as a family any more for a home cooked meal, as is the norm in many countries, they actually no idea what is actually healthy and what is not. There is a family my daughter is friends with, who have a "Pot Noodle night" every week as their mother works a long day that day (9.-3.30!)
Why do we teach biology in schools, but not health?
In the same way why do we teach maths, but not to control finances, calculates taxes, mortgage rates etc
It is harsh, but there needs to be a wholescale complete change of thinking about how we tackle education, infastructure of our cities and roads, our relationship with food etc, and i am not sure how we do this when the UK is pretty bankrupt, there needs to be money spent now, to save money in the long term, but governments can only see the next 4 years.
The French are getting fatter as well, their traditional foods and eating habits are being replaced with ultra processed versions, and snacking, they’re just coming from an historically lower point.
I was able to get a bag of Salt and vinegar Walkers crisps last time I was over. If they get Plain chocolate digestives, they’re screwed.
for a large proportion, they swing from one diet (keto etc) to another
I was browsing r/carnivore last night after reading that Grauniad article about the carnivore diet and it's full of posts from people saying "I was t2 diabetic, vastly overweight, poor mental health etc, then I switched to the carnivore diet and I feel so much better!"
And you can't help thinking, hmm, yes, you could probably have picked any diet at all that excludes sugar, booze and junk food, and you'd be feeling a lot better....
I was browsing r/carnivore last night after reading that Grauniad article about the carnivore diet and it’s full of posts from people saying “I was t2 diabetic, vastly overweight, poor mental health etc, then I switched to the carnivore diet and I feel so much better!”
You'd be amazed, people will try any yo-yo diet, take any drug etc to avoid just following a sensible diet and exercise.
The root cause of Type 2 diabetes is a metabolic disease, it is the cells lack of sensitivity to the insulin produced (a slight simplification), the bodies intolerance of carbs is a symptom of the disease, not the cause, but all you ever hear is the "Low carb diet" "Keto or carnivore", unsurprisingly if you do not eat carbs, you do not get raised blood glucose figures, but you are treating the symptoms not the cause, tackling and increasing insulin sensitivity is the way forward. If people as much effort into just going for a decent walk they did trying every diet going on the internet, they'd be much better off.
I think these new GLP-1 drugs don't help, Ozempic, Mounjaro etc, they do really have there place yes, but every second post you see on a Type 2 facebook page, is moaning and rudeness to Doctors and nurses because they won't be prescribed them, as they are seemingly seen as "miracle" weight loss drugs, but mention exercise, simple changes to diet, or even just trying to state to people how the disease actually works and you just get 101 excuses as to why they cannot.. but will happily take any pill or injection given to them.
It can’t all be genetics – if it was, the increase in obesity over the last 50 years would imply Darwin’s theory of evolution had accelerated at a parabolic speed.
I used to have an Womans Own (or one of the long running women's mags) cookbook from the 1960s. Surprising number of recipes involving offal and only one 'Diet' recipe which was for a diet intended to help gain weight.
Food used to be a lot more expensive - your grocery bill was typically 25% of your income and even at that you'd be eeking out leftovers.
The availability and scarcity of food can both mask and reveal genetic traits.
People have gotten taller over the last century. Average IQ has increased by 3 points every decade. Peoples DNA hasn't changed. Environmental and societal things have changed so that people are more commonly reaching the potential their genes allow- things like, greater wealth, welfare provision, improved housing, irradication of diseases, taking the lead out of petrol (most of us on this forum grew up during peak lead pollution and will probably be quite a few smarts short of our potential as a result)
I was browsing r/carnivore last night after reading that Grauniad article about the carnivore diet and it’s full of posts from people saying “I was t2 diabetic, vastly overweight, poor mental health etc, then I switched to the carnivore diet and I feel so much better!”
You’d be amazed, people will try any yo-yo diet, take any drug etc to avoid just following a sensible diet and exercise.The root cause of Type 2 diabetes is a metabolic disease, it is the cells lack of sensitivity to the insulin produced (a slight simplification), the bodies intolerance of carbs is a symptom of the disease, not the cause, but all you ever hear is the “Low carb diet” “Keto or carnivore”, unsurprisingly if you do not eat carbs, you do not get raised blood glucose figures, but you are treating the symptoms not the cause, tackling and increasing insulin sensitivity is the way forward. If people as much effort into just going for a decent walk they did trying every diet going on the internet, they’d be much better off.
Perhaps doing more than just treating the symptoms - Too much red meat is linked to a 50% increase in Type 2 diabetes risk
Tax the crap out of unhealthy food and subsidise heathy food
Who determines the definitions of unhealthy and healthy in these contexts? 30 years ago "fat" was the enemy, then it was "sugars", many now claim its "carbs", some would say "red meat" and there's a new wave of "ultra-processed".
And based on what I've seen manufacturers do with "the sugar tax", I wouldn't expect you will actually see an industry flip to healthy food - just adjustments to suit their marketing profile.
not just in supermarkets, but restaurants, takeout, etc. Make it so expensive that you have to consider alternatives.
Well its not like restaurant or takeout food is particularly affordable. But if you make changes like you are proposing - there will likely be job losses across the hospitality sector and potentially in food manufacturing too... does the ecconomic implications of those job losses have a greater or worse impact on societal health? You can't really invent policy in isolation like that.