Education is the start point. Make cooking, meal prep/planning, what's in food, what it's good for, part of the curriculum from an early age. Aim for every kid leaving high school to be able to cook 5 healthy meals from scratch. Make sure they know where food comes from, what it's made up of, when to use it. I don't like the good/bad approach, pretty much all food has it's place you just have to know when to have it and what needs moderation.
Find a way of reversing the narrative that a takeaway is a treat, and get people to realise a good, home cooked meal is often better. But also accept that everyone, me included, sometimes wants a kebab and chips washed down with a fizzy drink.
Put some pressure on retailers to make fresh food cheaper and more accessible. Little things like being able to buy a single carrot or leek in the supermarket rather than buying a whole bag, 1/2 of which will be wasted.
Get people reading Jamie Oliver's cook books (or someone similar). A lot of his stuff is really, really easy to make and needs very few fancy ingredients. Almost anyone can make a good meal from them, particularly if they've had the grounding in education mentioned above. Make cooking simple, some people only have access to a 2 burner hob and 2 pans, so make sure they can cook too, not just the fella with an oven, an air fryer, 4 burners and a microwave.
Tie this all in with exercise, exercise that's not seen as exercise. Getting movement part of peoples every day lives, a walk to the shop, a cycle to the train station, whatever. That'll mean investment in cycling and walking infrastructure along with public transport. The latter is important as the bus rarely drops you off outside your door so you inevitably end up with a walk at either end, free exercise.
From a legislative perspective, I'd be taxing delivery services more highly so if you want a takeaway you have to collect it, take away some of the convenience. I suspect there's also some work to be done on food labelling but I don't know enough to say what that would be.
I have a vegan diet, which is mostly home cooked, don’t eat fake meat or cheese, don’t eat sweets cakes etc and drink less than 4×330 ml cans of beer a week and drink no soft drinks.
There is some more nuanced stuff around this and the points in your post.
Sometime around the 70s we decided fats were bad and carbs were good, so we switched from high fat diets to high carb diets. There's a growing consensus now that it's potentially the overconsumption of carbs that is driving so much disease, including diabetes. Reducing or even completely removing refined sugars doesn't necessarily make you safe if the majority of your diet is made up of carbs.
This may or may not be true for you, I've no idea, but I mention here because I know from my own experience, especially if you follow a vegan or vegetarian diet, it's very easy to over rely on carb dense foods (which also tend to contain few nutrients), and can put yourself at risk even if you're following a diet made up of mostly natural foods.
That's partly a messaging problem in my opinion, and the fact we've been putting out the wrong messaging for the best part of 50 years.
I have not lost any weight.
Again, high carb diet is generally a factor here. All the sugar gets stored straight to fat.
The media is selling a narative that type 2 diabetes is your own fault as you have had a poor life style, but I believe it’s as a result to changes in your body.
Diet and lifestyle have a direct and very powerful influence on those changes in the body.
There needs to be better reseach around type 2 diabetes other than short term diet interventions and any diet intervention study needs to be followed over several years to see the long term results.
Short term dietary changes are definitely not the answer. Only long term cultural ones can possibly work.
The evidence for diet driving the increase in diabetes is conclusive, but there is also growing evidence that diet can, at least partially, reverse diabetes. That needs to be studied a lot more.
Laziness and education are the problem.
Plus acceptance that being a tub of lard is ok. Good living , carrying a bit of timber etc .
Plus , ease of buying 24 packs of crisps .
Plus time crunched parents driving to McDonald's and the ease of fast food collection via apps and delivery services.
Plus total denial that eating a packet of custard creams every day will turn you into a diabetic.
Plus total lazy adults who will go for a walk , but have to park within 50m of the start point and have a meltdown if the carpark is full, and I have watched people drive 25mttr to another pay and display machine as the nearest one was broken.
I am not that dumb. I carefully control my carbon intake but still need some cards to maintain energy levels for exercise.
Most people would not like my diet or level of activity but most people would generally be better off with a modest increase in activity and a better diet. This is a hard sell with relentless advertising and product placement.
I know I'm heading towards slightly dodgy ground here, but I also think we need to stop normalising obesity. That we need to be honest with people that being overweight is bad for their health and can/does cause issues. I am not clever enough or nuanced to know how to do this without coming across as insulting, preachy or "nanny state", but it feels like it's a conversation that needs to be had.
On the upside, it does feel like a large(r) proportion of younger people seem to be more aware of their health than previous generations. Gym membership is through the roof, vegan/veg diets are a big thing (cue debate about if they're healthier...).
Education.....you cannot put in during a couple of hours a week what parents have left out.
Make cooking, meal prep/planning, what’s in food, what it’s good for, part of the curriculum from an early age.
It is, maybe not as much of the actual cooking as we would like but food and health and how the two are linked come up continuously in various subjects. People know chips and sweets are not good for them.
I am not that dumb. I carefully control my carbon intake but still need some cards to maintain energy levels for exercise.
Again, it's not a comment on your diet, because I don't know what that is.
It is applicable on a population level as the general guidance around what a balanced diet should be, is increasingly considered to be one of the reasons for our poor health, even if you exclude UPFs.
Hyper-palletable UPFs full of junk ingredients filling the vast majority of our shelves are still the main problem for most people.
Education. It really doesn't have to be that hard or complicated.
Move more.
Lift heavy things.
Don't eat like a 5 year old.
Be consistent.
Obesity is mostly a disease of poverty. That’s where we need to start.
So we need to reduce poverty for a start.
We also need to understand that short of Bariatric surgery, obesity isn’t reversible.
Bariatric surgery is suggested by the NHS in the case of severe obesity (BMI over 40, or over 35 where there are other health issues such as type 2 diabetes or high blood pressure). Obesity starts at a BMI of around 35 and the initial advice is diet and exercise.
As an indication, I'm in the "healthy" range. To count as obese I would be 50% heavier. To be severely obese I would be 100% heavier.
private healthcare
And I find it astonishing when this country is so obsessed with education (making kids stay in it until age 18 is it? massively regulated nation curriculum) and yet there seems to be little attention to some of the basic life skills, and even less on helping people analyse the motive behind what’s told to them on Tik Tok, Instagram, Mail Online, Talk Radio, GB News.
Yep - there's a whole tranche of general "life skills" missing from education. Cooking, running a family budget, taxes, credit cards, critical thinking, online safety...
Instead you get people who will deliberately think differently cos it makes them feel special, like they're privvy to some sort of higher power which is how you end up with idiot flat earthers and anti-vaxxers and other conspiracy theorists.
The media is selling a narative that type 2 diabetes is your own fault as you have had a poor life style, but I believe it’s as a result to changes in your body. couple this with loss of muscle mass as a result of ageing and people are in trouble.
It usually is diet and lifestyle related but not always
In other words there are no unhealthy foods, but there certainly are unhealthy diets.
Not so really - some "foods" are inherently unhealthy. Anything with high fructose corn syrup for a start.
These discussions often tend to focus of stuff that should be banned (or penalised in some way) and on education. But I think the key should be to promote a healthy lifestyle rather that focusing on individual foods and it should be more about showing than telling.
For example, on Saturday I had a smoked sausage supper (Scottish for "stick some chips with that pal") and a can of regular coke for my evening meal. Nobody could call that healthy and if I ate it every day (or even every week) that would be bad. But I'd just finished a five and a half hour trail run and a quick hit of fat, salt, sugar and caffeine was just what I needed. Or at least what I wanted, but the point is that you can eat the occasional crap meal if you are making up for it elsewhere.
You can tell people about healthy lifestyles all day long but to effect a change you've got to get them to feel it. We all know how hard it can be to get off the couch sometimes, but we also now how much better we feel if we do. If you haven't felt that then it is very hard to actually take that first step. So, I think, they key is to get people to that point where they start to feel the benefit. Not really sure how you do that but I'm pretty sure it's a societal change not just a single policy.
Went to France in July, not many fat people there. What do they do differently?
That we need to be honest with people that being overweight is bad for their health
There's actually quite a bit of evidence that being slightly* overweight, helps reduce overall mortality risk and the risk of dementia. People who're carry a bit extra; live longer.
* figures vary about how much fat is good, and its connected to, obviously, other parameters as well.
Love a full fat coke once in a while before a big drive home. I work in quite a few crap neighbourhoods, loads of fat people lumbering around. Local supermarkets have all the crisps, chocolate and rubbish as soon as you go in as opposed to the fruit and veg. Areas that are depressing to work in let alone live in. Social and economic reasons lead to good or bad health. If you have a future and a nice environment you want to live longer. You'd need big economic, health, work, social changes to improve lots of people's health and sadly I can't see that happening.
RE the pics on cigarette packets applied to low nutritional value food,
As @Kramer says, it makes very little difference for the majority.
If it makes little difference why do they use do it with cigs? It may make no difference to the addict but for those yet to get that far down the path, it may. Awareness of what you're looking at in future is no bad thing. Part of the problem generally is the food industry marketing junk as a good day to day option. And while I agree that a moderate diet can include a bit of junk food and you'll be fine, the point is making people aware of what the risks are when that's your diet full stop, something that balances out food industry marketing.
Went to France in July, not many fat people there. What do they do differently?
Education at an early age about a healthy diet and culture (live to eat rather than eat to live)
Can anybody remember the name of the UK dietician who died in mysterious circumstances in France in the 1950s??
Went to France in July, not many fat people there. What do they do differently?
To add to the above higher food standards generally. there is a direct correlation between food standards and obesity
Went to France in July, not many fat people there. What do they do differently?
have a cigarette instead
I wouldn't say I "live healthily", but I'm the same weight at 50 (+/- a kg) as I was when I was 18, BMI sub-21. I've always lived on a high carb diet (mostly bread and a bit of a biscuit habit) and while I'm better with fruit and veg than I used to be, there won't be many days I get 5 portions in. The 2 things I do is be pretty damn active and I rarely drink alcohol (1 or 2 units a week) - its noticeable that if I go on holiday and have a pint most nights when eating out that I go wobbly round the middle very quickly. I also am lucky to have a partner who enjoys cooking and does great meals. I can't remember the last time we had a takeaway - there's no way I'd pay that much for something that's a lot worse than she can knock up. She even does sourdough pizzas now, which basically knock any chain restaurant ones for six.
Eating healthily whilst travelling (which I do a fair bit of) is the difficult bit. Someone upthread mentioned Pret. For me (a bread lover) a Pret Baguette is the minimum standard for a sandwich, yet there was a Guardian article the other day that said that a Pret Ham & Greve baguette was highly unhealthy and full of UPFs (can't find a link). How does a butty that contains ham, cheese and a bit of gardening manage that? Its also now the fat end of a fiver which means unless its on expenses, I'm VERY reluctant to pay - but what else do you eat? You can buy 2 packets of posh M&S biscuits for the same money, and they'll take longer to eat. But healthy...??? Its easy to end up paying £10 -12 for a "meal" that leaves you still hungry - and is STILL "unhealthy". Then you go to Weatherspoons and can get a plate full of "food" and a pint for about the same cost, which fills the void much more efficiently, so why wouldn't you?
Full fat Coke? Yes please. The other stuff tastes hideous, and if I need a Red Ambulance, its because I need a hit of sugar and caffeine. On the subject of fizzy drinks - I have to stay away from the M&S "sugar free" stuff as it gives me hideous gut ache - whatever they use instead of sugar is utter poison to my innards.
How does a butty that contains ham, cheese and a bit of gardening manage that?
sugar in the bread? I know thats the case with subway Ham is highly processed as well usually
As many have mentioned, there are many factors.
It doesnt help that these days you can have any shite in a tray, delivered to the comfort of your own home, at anytime of the day. You dont need to get out of your dressing gown and slippers to have a fat burger and fries delivered at 7am, 2pm or 11pm.
I often see people walking along swigging a can of Monster Energy (other poison in a can is available) at 7am. What has gone wrong in your life that you think its a sensible thing to consume?
Its a lack of knowledge, education and common sense.
Dont get me wrong, we all like a 'treat' from time to time. But moderation is the key.
I feel quite lucky that i really enjoy cycling and running, as it keeps me in a half decent shape (would probably be better if i didnt like larger and crisps).
sugar in the bread? I know thats the case with subway Ham is highly processed as well usually
Read the ingredients on a loaf of bread in the supermarket. Most of them you'll have no clue what they are, or ever likely to find in a household kitchen. I wouldn't be surprised if the 'freshly baked' stuff on the high street is even worse.
Very rarely bread you buy is just 'bread'.
Sorry, but education and move more eat less have been comprehensively debunked as an effective intervention.
IT DOES NOT WORK. IT HAS NEVER WORKED.
If you are slim, good for you, it's likely to be down to a combination of genetics and the fact that you live in a less obesogenic environment.
I mentioned Pret - the Guardian report said "Pret a Manger’s ham and greve baguette - too much salt, saturated fat and total fat, and also too many calories, as judged against official nutritional analysis criteria."
Pret baguette: Energy (Kcal) 596, Fat (g) 25.9, Carbohydrates (g) 57.4, Protein (g) 31.5, Salt (g) 3.85
Compared to a Big Mac: 590 Kcal. 25g Protein, 46g Total Carbs, 34g Total Fat
How do people feel about enforcing calorie information on restaurant and takeaway foods? I'm one of those that looks at the info and takes an informed decision, what's surprising is how few options there are in the average pub chain menu below 1000 kcals.
Sorry, but education and move more eat less have been comprehensively debunked as an effective intervention.
IT DOES NOT WORK. IT HAS NEVER WORKED.
If you are slim, good for you, it’s likely to be down to a combination of genetics and the fact that you live in a less obesogenic environment.
The first part of your statement and the last totally contradict each other. How are you supposed to foster a 'less obesogenic environment' except by education?
as mentioned above we also need to change attitudes to obesity. My GP told me I am slim. I am actually right at the top edge of "normal" BMI pushing towards overweight and at least a stone overweight. I am 1.5 stone heavier now than when I came back from my big bike ride
Cooking, running a family budget, taxes, credit cards, critical thinking, online safety…
Again all covered at the schools I have taught at for the last 20 years.....like I said you cannot put in what the parents leave out.
How are you supposed to foster a ‘less obesogenic environment’ except by education?
Regulation and measures to tackle poverty. You can't educate yourself to a less obesogenic environment.
How are you supposed to foster a ‘less obesogenic environment’ except by education?
Presumably it relates to his previous statement
Obesity is mostly a disease of poverty. That’s where we need to start.
If you’re poor you are starting at a disadvantage and education and moving more isn’t going to help;
There is a strong association between deprivation and obesity in children. This is in line with recently published evidence that states that obesity levels in children are likely to be higher in areas where low income families reside. In 2021/22, the prevalence of obesity in children in the most deprived areas was more than double the value in the least deprived areas. This is true both for children in Reception and in Year 6.
Apologies for butting in @Kramer
A lot of this thread smacks of middle class privileged people thinking that the thing that makes them middle class is their knowledge rather than the fact that they've got more money.
How do people feel about enforcing calorie information on restaurant
Works for me. If i am in two minds, i will go with the lower calorie item. Or i will be put off by something if its has a crazy calorie count.
Went to France in July, not many fat people there. What do they do differently?
Going to guess you were either:
-Paris for the Olympics
-Alps for biking
-Camping for family holiday
None of which is likely to give you a true demographic cut through of the French population
Went to France in July, not many fat people there. What do they do differently?
Less poverty.
Poverty is as old as civilisation but the obesity epidemic is a totally new phenomenon so there is obviously more to it than that.
Poverty is as old as civilisation but the obesity epidemic is a totally new phenomenon so there is obviously more to it than that.
Yes. The obesogenic environment in which we live which is a relatively modern phenomenon. But poverty is still the biggest risk factor for being overweight.
Poverty is still the biggest risk factor? Or poverty is now the biggest risk factor? If the latter, what has changed to make this the case?
(I am just thinking back to when I was at primary school. The only fat lad in my class - his dad owned a taxi firm. All the kids who were on free school meals were as thin as rakes. Co-incidentally - or not? - burgers/chips etc were never on the menu in the canteen.)
Going to guess you were either:
-Paris for the Olympics
-Alps for biking
-Camping for family holiday
None of which is likely to give you a true demographic cut through of the French population
Camping FTW! 🙂 We were off the campsite every day, still not many fat people about, in towns or countryside.
There is overwhelming evidence that education and other interventions that rely on personal agency are ineffective at tackling obesity at population level. There are, of course, some individuals who are exceptions to this, but obesity is not fundamentally a knowledge-deficit problem - it is, as @Kramer and others have made clear, an environmental problem that results from obesogenic physical, economic, social, and policy environments.
If the obesity epidemic was driven by a lack of willpower we would have seen reductions in willpower across populations commensurate with the growth of the epidemic; we have not. The rise in obesity over recent decades has predominantly been driven by changes in environments, largely driven by corporate actors, not by a collective loss of moral fibre or increase in stupidity.
Simplistic responses focused on small numbers of actions have failed and will continue to fail; obesity is a complex problem driven by multiple interacting factors. Reversing the trends in a way that no country on the planet has yet achieved requires engaging with this complexity, acknowledging the magnitude of the challenge, internalising the harmful externalities generated by many corporations within the food and physical activity systems, and accepting that the dominant approach of attempting individual level behaviour change is only able to make a tiny dent while also widening health inequalities. We need major structural responses to these and linked problems, such as those of air pollution and environmental degradation, if we are to have any chance of reversing this hugely harmful and growing epidemic.
So the answer to the original question of 'what can be done to encourage healthy living' is to stop trying to 'encourage' it and to start addressing the multiple problems with the environments that overwhelmingly shape our behaviours.
If the latter, what has changed to make this the case?
The obesogenic environment. Supermarkets, restaurants, cafes, coffee shops, takeaways, suburbia, lack of public transport etc.
But people are much more prone to this if they're poor.
If the obesity epidemic was driven by a lack of willpower we would have seen reductions in willpower across populations commensurate with the growth of the epidemic; we have not.
I don't believe that to be true at all, and the article you linked doesn't provide any evidence except saying "We believe it is implausible".
Surely it's obvious that we now have massively more choice in junk foods which is far easier to get than previous generations, and massively more numbers of distractions i.e. mobile phones, video games & now Netflix etc that keep some people stuck indoors rather than outside?
