[Closed] "What are you salary aspirations?" - applying for jobs

say market rate

what your on now +20-30%?

whats the field? and where is it, specifically?

If its investment banking, put a lot. If it's fast food, put less...

Surely you can aspire to any sort of salary. Doesn't mean you expect to get it at this particular job.

Tell them that that would depend entirely on the exact nature of the job, the people you'd be working for, their expectations for performance, the degree of realism associated with that etc.

Do not put a value on something you do not yet fully understand. Similarly, do not let them put a value on you before they've even met you and therefore cannot possibly hope to understand you.

Decide how much you'd have to be paid to live

in some frightful provincial town in a ghastly part of England where they probably don't even sell ciabatta

If this is the market rate for the job then happy days, if this is more than the market rate then presumably you wouldn't accept the job if they offered it to you. 😉

£excellent

Two options I'd say.

1. Just say market rate and leave it at that.

2. If it is actually true.....Say I am currently on £xxx and would not consider relocating for less or £xxxx+y. I've no idea why you are wanting a new job but if you were offered the job would you take it for less than you are on now? If not, be honest and save everyone some time.

It doesn't really matter what they think, you know what you will work for, and what you're worth so just be honest.

and remember its not just about the headline salary. pensions, holidays, heathcare etc are just as important.

Depends on res of package really, current job has little beyond salary so was pretty aggressive on what I wanted.

Well I'd be wanting fresh Ciabatta delivered to my desk every day, so factor that one in.

Why not state that "I'd like the salary to be reflective of the market position and negotiable with regard to my releative experience of that position, but also to be reviewed in 6 mnths and 1 year based on my forthcoming levels of performance in the role".

You're welcome, thats £1000 please.

Be honest - tell them the minimum that YOU would be happy to accept to do THAT job in THAT part of England.

If you do anything else you run the risk of being dis-satisfied if they offer you the job and you take it 😀

It's not very complicated, just name the amount that you would require to accept the position. They will evaluate if it's in their budget. The actual amount could be more or less than your current salary.

Just say £250k plus as much free Italian bread as you can eat.

If they can't be upfront with what they are offering I don't apply, can't be getting in with the guessing and bluffing game that is.

What @jam bo says - its about the total package. Seems very early in the process to be asking that and you don't have the information to come up with a figure.

If they can't be upfront with what they are offering I don't apply, can't be getting in with the guessing and bluffing game that is.

There are good reasons why companies don't list salaries or ranges. It's quite a nice direct way of setting a salary.

Employer: How much do you want?
Potential employee: £xxxxx
Employer: Yep I can see you're worth that or hahhha hha ha, get a grip I'm not going to waste time interviewing you, take your deluded sense of self importance elsewhere

I would say what your current remuneration package (covering all elements - bonus, LTIP, pension, health, car, etc). I would not say what you are looking for. If you're in the ballpark they'll interview. If they like You and vice versa, you negotiate at that point

You dont know what your worth?

Tell em what you want, indicision and waffling is a fail at the first hurdle.

There are good reasons why companies don't list salaries or ranges.

Its cheeky to ask that - turn it around, ask them what they are offering ?

On one hand you don't want to waste time attending an interview when they are offering rubbish money, but at the same time why play your final card at the start of the game ?

They really should advertise salary, it would save a lot of hassle and wasted time on both sides.

I got really frustrated with a investment bank recently. They insisted on knowing current salary, and based their offer on current salary + x%. This was irrespective of the other benefits and factors (for instance being expected to do 8-6 as opposed to 9-5, worse pension, worse holiday etc..).

I knew the banding for the role, as I have a friend in a similar role and knew his salary. I had more experience and to be frank a better track record so we should have been talking similar numbers, but they refused to budge and listen to my argument you should be basing the offer on what the role is worth to the organisation as opposed to some arbitrary rule based on how cheap we think we can get you.

I turned down their offer, and their counter offer.

Btw don't be tempted to lie about your existing salary if you offer it. I have been told about companies checking and firing if they found you had exaggerated...

You dont know what your worth?

As an employee you don't have an intrinsic worth, only worth what someone is prepared to pay you, which can change depending on location, economy, market etc....

And the Golden Rule of negotiating is NEVER show your hand first - NEVER!

Once you know they want you, and only then, can you open the discussion on salary, with them making their offer first.

For now just make up something along the lines of "I'm sure what you are offering would be competetive so at this stage in the process I'd like to find out more about role/company/responsibility" etc.

Don't forget to demand your gold plated unicorn! Thats non negotaible!

The whole thing is bullshit if you ask me.

I see job adverts all the time where a company lists exacting requirements of all the qualifications and experience [i]they[/i] require, a vague handwavey job description about what the role actually entails, and no mention of salary whatsoever (unless you're really lucky and they list "negotiable" or "competitive.") The implication seems to be that as a job seeker you'll take any old shit and be grateful for it.

You wouldn't get this sort of cloak-and-dagger dealing anywhere else. You don't get through the checkout at Tesco with a trolley-load of goods and have the cashier go "well, how much will you give us for that lot?" Then you over-estimate and they profit, or under-estimate and they refuse to sell it.

If you price too high they'll think you're too expensive; price too low and they'll think you're worthless. Get in the right ballpark and they'll offer you the role with a salary calculated to be as far under what you asked for as they can get away with without you actually declining. House always wins.

If you absolutely must put a figure on it then I'd work out what you want and add 20% or so, or Google a "what's the going rate for my job" calculator as they always seem to come out 50% higher than what you're currently earning anyway. But really, I'd try to get away with something wooly about expecting the market rate and "competitive salary package" advertised and kick the ball back over their side of the net.

Whenever I see £competitive or similar it just makes me think that they're trying to get someone on the cheap

This. It's just them forcing you to play your hand first.

What are they? Surely in this day and age of tight budgets etc, they know what they are willing to spend.

1. Some companies are very secretive about salaries, especially small ones which don't have defined bands as such. Advertising a role at £xxx could result in existing employees getting upset (yes, this is probably to the detriment of existing employees)
2. Some small companies may not know what the market rate is if they are recruiting infrequently or are based in a location away from other competitors. This is particularly the case for niche roles or specialisms.
3. There may well be a budget set but some companies may want to see what applicants are interested. e.g. if they said £40k-£50k but someone absolutely amazing applied and said "I want £65k" they could be persuaded of the business case. Small companies can often be flexible like this.
4. Some companies, especially some small ones, are not run by complete a$$hats and by asking you how much would you want, are asking you a straightforward question because they have better things to do than employ an HR department to develop pay bands and do market analysis for them.

You cal always negotiate again if they do make an offer - based on info gained since you told them your initial requirements. Package, role, whatever. They could offer less than you ask anyway. Have to be willing to walk away in order to negotiate hard if that's what you want to do - but if the job is good with good prospects then worth compromising.

Investment Management....so millions.....eventually 😛

Given up on science, it won't fund my hobbies. Baby steps, I have an interview with an investment company in May for a fairly basic job....but it's a foot on the ladder.

Go high, if it's a US corporate they'll wnat your soul on a silver platter for it.

My stock answer:

I'm sure that, as a company, you're in a better position then I am to estimate what I'm worth to you, I'd be happy to discuss this at interview should I be selected.

see job adverts all the time where a company lists exacting requirements of all the qualifications and experience they require, a vague handwavey job description about what the role actually entails,

My company did this to us while we we're still actually working for them.. 'Industry standard' so they say..

google the hell out of the situation, look for roles in Central London and apply that price 🙂

serious bit; DON'T PUT YOUR CURRENT SALARY, american firms love to know this cos it allows them to hire on the cheap, they will try all kinds of things to find out but don't tell them.

best of luck !

Btw don't be tempted to lie about your existing salary if you offer it. I have been told about companies checking and firing if they found you had exaggerated...

I always thought this too but, how would they check? Doesn't that fall under the DPA? Who is legitimately allowed to provide them with that information?

do what they do and give a range of what you believe to be the market range for the role = median +/- 15-20% e.g. £32-48k

If they have to ask, can they really afford you?

PS I'm always honest about what I'm on now and what matters to me - ie I'm not moving for the same salary so think about what sort of uplift you want to give me, if you want me to work in the South East you will have to buy my soul, my soul isn't cheap, etc.

What industry is the position in?

I work for a very large American firm, I can offer next to zero input on how they come to their many wonderful decisions.

"What are you salary aspirations?"

Can I suggest that you don't work at the salary level but you work at the package level (and understand how package differences impact you)
- salary
- pension contributions (likely to be low with US co ime)
- annual holidays
- stated hours per week
- actual hours per week.....
- overtime payaments (if any)....
- flexible working hours
- other benefits (gyms etc etc, free parking ...........)
- bonuses/bonus criteria
- even promotion potential etc

you might be able to preagree a 3/6 month rise based on some agreed and mesaurable criteria (ie take care here) ditto promotions etc

I always thought this too but, how would they check? Doesn't that fall under the DPA? Who is legitimately allowed to provide them with that information?

I'd assumed that employers have access to previous income via your P45 or the like to work out tax? I could be completely wrong...would love to know one way or other.

Well I'd be wanting fresh Ciabatta delivered to my desk every day, so factor that one in.

He doesn't make his own bread? Next he'll be telling us he rides a bike too.

I've always gone high - 25-30% and no have got every job sometimes after they negotiated me down a little

First time they ask:
"I am much more interested in <type of work> at <name of company> than in the size of your initial offer"

Second time they ask:
"I will consider any reasonable offer"

Third time they ask, and any other time they ask:
"You are in a much better position to know how much I am worth to your business than I am"

Yeah but you might get blown out for being difficult. I don't think it unreasonable for companies to want to filter out those who'd only join them for a salary above what they're happy to pay.

Tell them what you want to earn.

I'm pretty sure you'll have a good idea what you'll be happy to move to a new job for, tell them that figure. If there's a metaphorical pursing of lips and an intake of breath, you know to chalk it down to experience and walk away.

I am enjoying the cloak and dagger stuff from some though...

[i]The whole thing is bullshit if you ask me.[/i]

I agree!

I don't think it unreasonable for companies to want to filter out those who'd only join them for a salary above what they're happy to pay.

Don't you find that out when you say what you want?

Maybe my line of work is easier than some for this as I know roughly what people will have to pay for various relevant roles for me. Having said that I think they always give a salary range to indicate what level of person they want.

the absolute maximum I can squeeze out of you for the absolute minimum level of work from me

IMHOits pretty crap to offer a job with no salary and I would reply with an equal complete level of information.

it would depend on overall package of benefits including car, location, hours, pension, holidays and the prevailing market rate etc

Ie say nothing but answer the question

Why don't you do bit of research and find out what the market rate for the job is? Then add say 10%

It's a trick question to shorten the list

I am incredibly glad I did not make any suggestions about salary for my current role.

They appear to have used the formula:

Our offer = A x B + C + D + E + F

Where:

A = the aspirational salary of someone doing your job in London
B = 2
C = a load of cash, because it's easier than dealing with your expenses
D = uplift because you'll be paying less tax
E = bonus
F = cakes

The result of my agent's strategic vagueness on my salary aspirations is pay roughly 3x what I'd have happily settled for, plus some cake.

Im currently looking for a new job and have come across a few job adds with the competitive salary line. So far the ones ive researched i.e googled company reviews by employee and customer have been less than favourable. Where as ones with what id consider a competitive salary advertised the same reviews seem to put the company in a better light.

They also tended to have what appears to be a copy and paste generic add that contained no actual role specific information of any use , just they the company is amazing and that you should want to work for a them

Do some research - pitch at top end of market rate + 10% plus relocation (again research it - double the "actual" cost).

Add a proviso that you're happy to negotiate on the figure you quote for the right role and package - this shows flexibility and willingness to compromise.

The result of my agent's strategic vagueness on my salary aspirations is pay roughly 3x what I'd have happily settled for, plus some cake.

I don't believe you on the cake.

Whereas I work for a piddly wee charity, where I get paid about 0.3 of what I thought I would settle for, but do get lashings of cake. A team meeting cannot be convened without a small barrow load of scones, for example. Whether this makes up for the salary deficit is not a discussion I want to have, however deep down I know it is a thorn I must grasp.

Anyone looked at glassdoor to see what people say about their company? Only bigger ones on there I guess.

I'd assumed that employers have access to previous income via your P45 or the like to work out tax? I could be completely wrong...would love to know one way or other.

So would I. So I asked our HR Manager.

She reckoned that whilst they do get partial financial details through P45s et al, it would be very difficult to work out an exact salary given the many variables that could apply. Also, it'd be a lot of work for very little gain and she felt it'd be highly unusual for management to ask for that sort of information.

Which makes sense, of course. If it were to come out in the wash that you'd fibbed about your previous role, the fact remains that they've made you an offer based on what they [i]think [/i]you're worth, not what someone else did. The more I think about it, the more I think it's broadly irrelevant what your previous employer paid. What if you're changing careers? Should your new salary be related to your old if you're moving say from technical to management, or from sales to retrain as a plumber?

TL;DR - "What are your career aspirations / expectations" and "what were you on at the last place" are two very different questions.

On a sample of two countries I can say that the UK has a huge spread of wages per role compared to Sweden.

The more I think about it, the more I think it's broadly irrelevant what your previous employer paid.

100% agree, which is why I got quite frustrated with said investment banks approach. I'd been honest with 'what I'm on' because they said they'd sack me if they found out I'd exaggerated it. They then used that as a negotiation tool to insist on a lower salary than others on the same role. If they had no way to prove it, it is just a nasty tactic, which is actually the feeling I had and why I declined the offers - if they treat you like that when they are trying to attract you....

I also thought what if you were a contractor earning £££ per day with zero benefits vs a lower paid permie with a final salary pension. The basic is only one variable so seems silly to create an arbitrary rule.

Thanks for checking out with your friendly HR person, interesting to get anothers perspective

Thank you all for your insight and opinions. I agree entirely with everything Cougar said.

It's hard to say what the market rate is because it's a bit of a niche and not many companies have them (it's still a desk job at a corporate though, it's not as rare as being the Pope or something).

In the end, I replied by saying "I understand the market rate to be x to 1.5x. That's a bit vague but when we know how much support I'd have and how mnay people I'd cover, it'll be easier to fix a figure. Also, you awful people probably don't even know how much a hummus import would cost, so I'd need to work that out too". (I didn't say that last bit and it's not really about fine foods - it's about being at the wrong end of the country from my family). I thought being all "tell me how much you [i]think[/i] I'm worth" would come across a bit unhelpful or smart alecky.

Go high, if it's a US corporate they'll wnat your soul on a silver platter for it.

I'm still interested to know which awful provincial town we're talking about.

does it matter? they're all the same 😛

I see, you're one of [i]them[/i]

naw, actually, it's not about living in the provinces, it's the fact that I'd prefer to be close to my family for personal reasons.

So throw them a bone. Suggest that you would consider compressed hours or a four day week or somethingy to be a benefit ?

Some jobs will ask you to sign a consent to gather data from your former employers including salary btw. Not sure this is ethical, it is hardly freely given, but it happens.

Liking "...but also to be reviewed in 6 mnths and 1 year based on my forthcoming levels of performance in the role". Does that happen in the real world? That first salary negotiation is important. It sets the level for further changes.

The first value described will set the room for subsequent negotiation.

They've asked for salary expectations. Give them something to go on based on whatever evidence you can find to start with: Glassdoor.com, folks currently in the job, folks who've worked for them before... Once you've set the starting value and they've not rejected you then it's a matter of negotiation for holidays, study leave, bonuses, etc. Sounds like it isn't a job you really want though?

just as a followup comment: I had an hourlong phone interview, we loved each other, he asked me to a second interview and just as we were hanging up he said "btw I don't see the note about your salary expectations here, did you tell them to the recruiter?". I said "yes, I said between x and y". there was a long pause and then he said "that's...much more than anyone else and I'm not sure we should continue next week". dozy recruiter hadn't passed it along...fark if you're gonna neither disclose the salary nor read what I say...

"that's...much more than anyone else and I'm not sure we should continue next week".

Not sure if thats paraphrasing, but interesting that he didn't say more than we'd pay you, but more than anyone else. Sounds like there's a big pay/quality trade off going which sucks.

it's probably not his exact words but it's close to what he said

I've got the skills and experience for the job, and I think I'm worth it. If I solve one problem early, I'll have covered my salary for the year... But otoh if he can get that somewhere else for cheaper - good luck to him, I suppose, and I hope the rest of the employers don't hear about it!

"that's...much more than anyone else and I'm not sure we should continue next week...

" I can understand your hesitation, but it seems through the conversation we have just had, that I have a skill set and approach that is an excellent match for the position. Can I suggest that we put the salary package aside for now, go ahead with the interview and if I am the best candidate on skill, experience and fit with the company we come back to salary and benefits? After all, are you looking for the best candidate or the cheapest ? "

Worth a punt, and your call on the last sentence.... ?

"Well I ain't cheap, but then the good shit never is" 😀

Well that once again begs the question, why don't they just publish what [i]they[/i] think the job is worth, rather than attracting over-qualified people to apply and then wasting everyone's time?

rickmeister - Member
"that's...much more than anyone else and I'm not sure we should continue next week...
" I can understand your hesitation, but it seems through the conversation we have just had, that I have a skill set and approach that is an excellent match for the position. Can I suggest that we put the salary package aside for now, go ahead with the interview and if I am the best candidate on skill, experience and fit with the company we come back to salary and benefits? After all, are you looking for the best candidate or the cheapest ? "

Excellent. Basically, backatcha. Always leave the door open in negotiations.

If they offer you the job you are in a better position as now you know they want you and think you are the best so you have more power than before hand

I would not apply for a job that did not state salary

They would not consider me if I was equally vague about my experience and qualifications

Alot of jobs in Science dont have a wage advertised.

Im never sure why really.

I think they just expect you to want to work there and in the field they are offering and wage wont difference !!!