[Closed] What are we to make of the UKIP surge?

Labour has won in Derbyshire, awesome - looking forward to land redistribution and the bringing down of the landowning classes, starting with the Duke of Devonshire. Pitchfork and torch ready for the storming of Chatsworth.

Derbyshire now

Just when you thought UKIP were bad enough, now they've inspired the posting of a Disturbed video.

Line crossed Farage, line crossed.

Just listened to London Calling(album).

Open eyes, oh look it's 2013. Apparently.

sigh

If the main political parties want to get rid of this bothersome fly called UKIP then just have a referendum on Europe,in or out ,before the next election.When we all vote to stay in then UKIP's stance on immigration and the wasteful EU will be dead in the water.
We will all be voting to stay in the EU won't we ?

Thats part of the problem. In the 80's music and comedy was providing an alternative view to the media message. Without a bombastic war to get jingoist about, thatcher would have been a 1 term PM. Now "call me dave" doesn't need a war, there is no alternative message.

Never more has Spitting Image needed reviving.

We will all be voting to stay in the EU won't we ?

Hell yes!

When the trade deal is done between the EU and the US do you want to be on the inside or the outside? The idea that the UK will be allowed to benefit without contributing to the EU is just ridiculous.

I'm in favour of a Euro referendum as long as it's before Autumn 2014. Can't we do it the same time as the Euro elections?

Pigface - Member
...he thinks Ukip are the future and so do his mates. Interesting times ahead indeed

I've just looked at the results for Cambridgesshire. Either UKIP will fade away back to nothing, or we're in for some very interesting times. And not in a good way.

they've grown up in an almost constant state of war with a never ending onslaught of xenophobic right wing propaganda from the media..
The recent political coup that brought an unelected Tory government to power has propagated a massive shift in social morality as far as I can see..

That's exactly the same as the line posted again and again the Telegraph's comments section, but turned on its head: the endless onslaught of the left wing multicultural media, etc etc. I'm beginning to suspect the media is about right, given the amount of hate it inspires on both left and right wings.

Oh, and the current government was elected democratically, you may argue the system is flawed but that could be said about any democratic system, including PR.

Suddenly the wavering independence voters in Scotland take a lurch to vote "Yes"...

Oh, and the current government was elected democratically

figure of speech old bean, simply a figure of speech.. never let the truth get in the way of a good story as our old friend Chopper Read once said..

the bloody UKIP have stolen the seat in my ward.. 🙁

the current government was elected democratically

You seriously think that the way the Liberal Democrats have behaved has been an excise in
democracy ? To totally abandon their pre-election policies, eg, VAT increases, bonuses for bankers, tuition fees, nuclear power, NHS reorganisation, police numbers, etc, and take a diametrically opposed position represents democracy ?

Yeah, they might have been elected, but there was nothing democratic about it. It was straightforward fraud. If they had been selling a product or service then they could have expected to be prosecuted.

Yeah, they might have been elected, but there was nothing democratic about it. It was straightforward fraud. If they had been selling a product or service then they could have expected to be prosecuted.

Go on then, define "democratic". It wasn't fraud, electoral "promises" aren't binding in any legal sense. Morally, no doubt. But not legally.

aren't binding in any legal sense

If you check my post you'll notice that I made that point.

Go on then, define "democratic". It wasn't fraud, electoral "promises" aren't binding in any legal sense. Morally, no doubt. But not legally.

democracy derives from government of the people. the people decide on the government they want based on what candidates promise to do.

to act in complete opposite to the promises made makes a complete mockery of democracy and 'fraud' seems to be a fairly accurate description to me

The whole system is utterly fnucked. Farage and his cohorts are just proof that the liberal democracy of the west is every bit as corrupt and pointless as any of the other systems of government. My solution is to ignore the lot and concentrate on my family, neighbours and friends.

Not the polish family from up the road of course but everyone else.

If you check my post you'll notice that I made that point.

So we agree, excellent.

democracy derives from government of the people. the people decide on the government they want based on what candidates promise to do.

Except promises aren't legally binding. Perhaps they should be, although I'm not sure that the government that comes out of it would be particularly effective - after all promises are made on the basis of current knowledge of the situation, if that information is incomplete or changes...

Maybe a compromise, 100 days of doing what they promised?

So we agree, excellent.

I don't think we do.

Unless of course you agree that the way the Liberal Democrats wangled their way to power/government wasn't democratic ?

It was straightforward fraud.

Fraud : [i]A person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.[/i]

We will all be voting to stay in the EU won't we

the one thing you dont want to do in the middle of an economic crisis is to leave the large organisation you do most of your trade with. I dont actually understand why they think this will help tbh...has anyone any idea what UKIP think this will do the economy?

Ernie is correct the bungled coalition and the capitualtion of the LIb dems is many things but democracy in action is not one of them
Clegg has really ****ed the Lib Dems for at least a generation he could even kill them tbh.
Yes they have achieved some things and tempered the most bastardly elements of tory policy but the list of lines they would not cross is rather long and [ even for a politician] you cannot trust them. Voting lib dem is like voting for a lucky dip

We are to make that the voter has had enough of the Tory cartel and their kleptocracy, but is in a state of flux as to who to vote for because of the shower that constitute our political parties.

Agree with ernie as well - loads of embezzlement going on, whether it be broken manifesto promises or the dispersal of public funds.

wrecker - Member
LOL @ the elitists suggesting that university somehow makes your vote worth more.....
Intelligence isn't the sole preserve of the well-off university going, bank of mum and dad raiding middle class you know.

Ha ha, this /\.

Great summery of the stw usuals conceted view on just about anything.

the one thing you dont want to do in the middle of an economic crisis is to leave the large organisation you do most of your trade with.

That might carry more weight if the eurozone economies were in rude health....but they're not, i fail to see how leaving the EU would make things any worse for the UK.

Do people really believe that european firms would stop doing business with UK companies?....business knows no boundaries and being a member state or not will not make a jot of difference, Norway and Switzerland seem to manage.

Imagine how much more money Germany could have spent on its own people and services if it hadnt had to pour billions down the drain propping up failing member states....that is the appeal for me.
Britain contributes £10bn to the EU....what was the magic number for economic cuts this government had to make?....the 6 billion in cuts is covered in one fell swoop by keeping that 10bn.

It wouldnt be so bad if new members were bringing something to the party...but thats not what is happening, for me the EU would have worked if healthy economies converged and created a united front of wealth to rival that of the US, China etc....the reality however is that countries like Poland, Bulgaria and Romania join for what they can get out of it....Britain's rebate was reduced so that farming could be subsidised in these new member states!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-contribution-to-eu-reaches-1639bn-a-year-2256631.html

You couldnt make it up.

The EU seems to want to expand constantly for no other reason than expansion alone....as it does this countries like Greece and Cyprus get swept up and spat out and countries like Germany bleed money to keep the illusion going.
Like is said, i really cant envisage an apocalyptic future just because we're not an EU member state....that kind of nonsense is simply scaremongering.

UKIP lost the only seat they had in Nottinghamshire

Imagine how much more money Germany could have spent on its own people and services if it hadnt had to pour billions down the drain propping up failing member states....that is the appeal for me.

I think you'll find that Germany has been propping up failed banks, not so much failed member states. And Germany has been one of the biggest beneficiaries of monetary union. It has also done very well out of the Eurozone crisis.

[url= http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-07-22/eurozone-crisis-saves-germany-tens-of-billions ]Eurozone crisis saves Germany tens of billions[/url]

I agree that Britain should leave the EU though.

Great summery of the stw usuals conceted view on just about anything.

Spellcheck.

That's a really interesting and entertaining contribution, Piemonster.

I liked it.

the real danger of all of this is the prospect of the tories moving to the right to recapture their disenfranchised support and being re elected with both a majority and a manifesto further to the right than they have now.

now that worries me.

You're all worrying unnecessarily. With all this new found political fame Farage is bound to be jet setting around the UK in a Light aircraft again.

It's difficult for us to know what to make of it when NF (strangely appropriate initials? No I am exaggerating now!) stated on the radio yesterday that it is hard to tell how much of UKIP's success was down to protest votes or a positive vote for their policies. Given the shallowness of their policy platform it is is easy to dismiss this as a protest vote but I think that this is wrong. There is more to this albeit not to the extent of the coverage that the results suggest. Nonetheless, the main parties have been foolhardy to dismiss UKIP as clowns etc and have had their noses suitably bloodied. In order, the Lib Dems, the Tories and then Labour. They need to answer the question I posed before, how does a party led by NF ( almost a caricature of the nice but dim broker that died out after Big Bang), with dubious candidates and a shallow policy platform do so well?

It is not good criticising democracy when it serves up the result that people do not like. There is a strong message that heralds the start of major change in Europe. The gulf between Europe's citizens and the civil servants who ARE MEANT TO SERVE THEM (not vice versa) has stretched to breaking point. In some cases, this has resulted in non-elected political beings imposing extreme economic conditions on the citizens with little accountability. It goes without saying that the policies that can result in double digit contractions in GDP, 50%+ unemployment among the youth, collapse in services and increasing disorder are the wrong ones.

Perhaps the clowns and those who vote for them are not as stupid as first appearances may suggest?

I do think that the Toies are having their M&S moment. They are losing contact with their core base. As one bloke put it on the radio yesterday, DC is a liberal with a blue tie on. I do not agree with that, but the point is still a good one. Once again they will suffer from internal tears in the buld up to 2015. Cleggs stuffed, so that leaves Milliband to re-enact his own Kinnock moment but without the € retirement home as a back up plan!

edsbike - Member

The Greens have more councillors than UKIP. Media only going nuts over the right wing xenophobes though.

mefty - Member

Pretty sure that won't be the case at the end of today.

It's difficult to get any information on how well the Green Party did on thursday, because as the principle left-wing party in these elections the establishment/media have imposed severe self-censorship on it, whilst of course providing UKIP with acres of morale boosting free media coverage.

But it would appear the Greens won 141 seats and UKIP won 144, so yes, UKIP ended up with 3 councillors more than the Greens.

the real danger of all of this is the prospect of the tories moving to the right to recapture their disenfranchised support and being re elected with both a majority and a manifesto further to the right than they have now.

That would be a very poor strategy on the part of the Tories if they responded in that way.

If they attempt to steal UKIP's clothes they will simply be seen to be reenforcing what UKIP are saying, to which the logical conclusion for potential UKIP voters is to vote UKIP. The Tories won't be able to out-bigot UKIP.

A far more effective way for the Tories to confront any perceived threat from UKIP would be to use the formidable media machine at their disposal to expose and attack UKIP's policies as unacceptable and unworkable, ie from a more left-wing perspective.

Of course one of the niggling problems with that strategy is that UKIP do not have much in the way of clearly stated and defined policies which to expose and attack (Farage has been known to make up policy on the hoof - such as scrapping flat rate tax) Indeed it is this lack of clearly stated and defined policies which contributed greatly to UKIP's success on thursday.

It's difficult to get any information on how well the Green Party did on thursday,

You could just go to the results page on the BBC website

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21240025 ]results[/url]

But it would appear the Greens won [s]141[/s] 22 seats and UKIP won [s]144[/s] 147, so yes, UKIP ended up with [s]3[/s] 125 councillors more than the Greens in the seats fought on Thursday.

Sorry st george my figures were for total number of councillors.

Instead of moaning on an mtb website, ukip have had a proper stab at the open-door immigration policy that's been glossed over for the last how ever many years and for that they should applauded.

A far more effective way for the Tories to confront any perceived threat from UKIP would be to use the formidable media machine at their disposal to expose and attack UKIP's policies as unacceptable and unworkable, ie from a more left-wing perspective.

don't get me wrong, i really hope you're right in what you're saying but surely the electorate would have already exposed ukip's unworkable policies if they had voted for them on those alone ? i get the feeling that people are voting and will vote ukip for very shallow reasons - because ukip appear to be against the things that annoy them - rather than because they have a workable manifesto

immigration has never been popular amongst the electorate as far as I can see.. so in a democratic society, can anyone tell me why there has been an unwanted 'open door policy' for so long..?

is it for economic reasons..?

because ukip appear to be against the things that annoy them - rather than because they have a workable manifesto

UKIP have won in my ward... I reckon it could be quite interesting to push their political agenda to the limit, and see what a small local pressure group could get them to agree to in the interest of keeping voters happy.. 😀

patriotpro - Member

....the open-door immigration policy that's been glossed over for the last how ever many years

If you followed the news you would have seen that open-door immigration policy has been regularly challenged. Although talking about it has little consequence and is fairly pointless as it is a requirement of EU membership.

...unless you want to be a ski instructor in France!?!

unless you want to be a ski instructor in France!?!

you can be a ski instructor in france. you just have to have the required qualification which in no way demands that you have to be a french national.

Once the media hype settles down, some wider perspective will emerge. UKIP have neither the policy platform nor the physical infrastructure at present to represent a significant political force. The quality of the leadership of the three main parties will be reflected in how they deal with this obvious fact. The BNP soon fell over when they actually had to do things, as did the Lib Dems!

When all is said and done it may well be that the unlikely result will be that Grant Shapps is proved correct. By 2015, we will remain a two party political process. Plus ca change...

TM, perhaps there is a gap between theory and practice. Either that or the mayor (?) of Bourg Saint Maurice has not read his EU legislation 😉

we will remain a two party political process. Plus ca change...

that's the scariest thought of all..

a fait accompli by the Eton Mafia, the end of democracy - I may even register to vote against this myself

TM, perhaps there is a gap between theory and practice

Well, I remember the fuss that was kicked up back in 2007 when the French applied the same rules to MTB guides in France as applied to the ski instructors. Basically you could still operate as long as you had the qualification required by French law. All of the British companies cried foul and were more than supported by their 'friends' in the MTB journalist fraternity even though the reality was that they were acting and continued to act outside of the regulations. I know this first hand as I was on holiday that year and was given a map on day one and told by our guide that he'd be off if the police turned up on the trail.
Now it seems to me that you can't have it both ways. When someone introduces a policy to legally control immigration people cry foul whilst at the same time calling for controlled immigration here.

The Labour Party elite went to Eton as well, yunki? 😉

TM - I think we are saying the same thing (at least your conclusion)

i dont know whats worse - the horrible feeling that right wing xenophobia and little englander idocy is on the rise

or that ill have to see even more of the already massively overexposed idiot farage on the tv

Kimbers, suppose you'd prefer it if you dictated the rules rather than the idiotic voters.

Be patient Farage will and his team will mess it up.

There is a message in all this in my view. With a few exceptions all our existing politicians are completely unrepresentative of what many people want to see or are concerned about. Mind you many of us are trapped in an out dated left vs right distraction that solves nothing.

Let them have their 15 mins of fame.

Mind you many of us are trapped in an out dated left vs right distraction that solves nothing.

We're all in this together ?

Is that the "up to date" thinking ?

More worrying than this group of ultra right wing loonies are the public who vote for them

Saw a little collection on the news this morning, what an ill informed dim witted lot and a wide ranging age bracket too. Don't think it's the eastern europeans that are to blame for their stupidity, there again I suspect they would blame them?

Do they really think that UKIP would do them any favours, can forget any sort of employment rights and help for the needy genuine or otherwise

As EL pointed out the figures from yesterday only cover a portion of the country.

Based on [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_make-up_of_local_councils_in_the_United_Kingdom ]this wiki page[/url] which has not been updated since yesterday, Greens went into election with 122 councilors in England & Wales whereas UKIP had 24. the Greens gained 5 giving them 127 in Eng and Wales, UKIP gained 137 giving them 161. No doubt the Greens have some in Scotland as well but I have not researched this.

I must admit I rather underestimated the Green's position when I made my statement but the UKIP surge was greater than I expected so it turns out I was right. With regard to the media, I don't think you can expect them to report anything other than the big swings and there is no doubt the UKIP surge was one of those and there wasn't a big Green swing because they have a more focused strategy. The Tories still have 50 times as many councilors as UKIP.

The more bizarre comments in the meeja? "[i]We now have a four party system[/i]". Given that UKIP still have less representation overall than the Green Party, this is surely nothing more than pure hype. Either there was already a four party system or now there is five.

Edit: I'm ignoring Scotland in this.

UKIP has grown too quickly: it will fracture once all these guys who have been elected are required to take decisions and speak in public. They will disagree with each other because there won't be enough internal cohesion.

can anyone tell me why there has been an unwanted 'open door policy' for so long..?

Given that UKIP still have less representation overall than the Green Party

Depends how you weigh up different representatives, UKIP more councillors and alot more MEPS, Greens 1 more MP.

[quote=mefty ] Given that UKIP still have less representation overall than the Green Party
Depends how you weigh up different representatives, UKIP more councillors and alot more MEPS, Greens 1 more MP.
Fair enough - either way they are close in size so my point still stands.

UKIP are more important nationally because they fight seats now all over the country, the Greens have tended to concentrate their resources in far fewer areas so will have less influence on a national result. Based on yesterday, UKIP look on course to win next year's Euro elections, which they came second in 1999. The Greens came fifth.

The UKIP vote was dismissed as a protest vote, and remember 'fruitcakes and closet racists'. Lots of voters might once have regarded a protest vote as a wasted vote. Voters have seen the result of a 25% share. It wasn't wasted. Dave is worried. With this example, how many more might vote 'A plague on all their houses', or tactically?

We live in interesting times.

And UKIP are now talking of following the Greens' example in Brighton: building a name in local politics as a platform to gain support for potential MPs.

Based on yesterday, UKIP look on course to win next year's Euro elections

😯

Yes TM : that's a bit of a leap. It might have interesting repercussions for the Scottish Independence referendum though.

It's not my analysis. It is, I understand, the generally accepted view at Tory Central Office, presumably because they came second last time and they have been increased their popularity in the intervening 5 years.

Well the ukip surge helped the greens get in by splitting the tory vote back home im pleased to note sitting here on a sunny beach in Mauritius.

some cases, this has resulted in non-elected political beings imposing extreme economic conditions on the citizens with little accountability.

UKIP has grown too quickly: it will fracture once all these guys who have been elected are required to take decisions and speak in public. They will disagree with each other because there won't be enough internal cohesion.

Based on yesterday, UKIP look on course to win next year's Euro elections

Junkyard - lazarus

True they unite on a dislike of Europe and immigration and nothing else.

Those are their common grounds so perhaps those are good enough for the masses to understand.

Why on earth do you want to join EU? I do not know. Is UK being forced to join? I guess not, so it's like trying to stick the nose into others business (EU) thinking of it.

UKIP has grown too quickly: it will fracture once all these guys who have been elected are required to take decisions and speak in public. They will disagree with each other because there won't be enough internal cohesion.

Well, internal matters can be sorted out later without EU etc. All new govt has to go through those phase so I do not see a problem there. They will learn and learn it hard.

Unless UKIP hire many experts as advisers they are just short term political party. i.e short term may be one generation ...

What good is EU anyway? Really. With or without EU UK will still be trading anyway. No, try not to blame other low cost nations.

On here we have THM and ernie agreeing broadly re anti EU

Me too, me too. I wouldn't vote for a party which had that as their main policy (with other stuff to be worked out later) even if they were a lot more moderate than UKIP. Voting for them in local elections is frankly rather bizarre IMHO - I voted for the chap who sorts out local issues well (I suppose actually I'd still have voted for him if he'd defected to UKIP, but I'd have had to cross my fingers whilst doing so).

slowoldgit - Member

The UKIP vote was dismissed as a protest vote, and remember 'fruitcakes and closet racists'.

Well there isn't any evidence that UKIP are anything other than a protest party. And "fruitcakes and closet racists" is imo a very apt description of UKIP candidates/membership.

For them not to have received votes on the basis that they are a protest party suggests that people were specifically drawn to UKIP because of their policies, there's no proof of that.

And not least because UKIP have very few clearly defined policies. Indeed senior UKIP politicians have even suggested that there is a need to buy "off the shelf" policies from think-tanks.

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-in-chaos-after-leaked-emails-threaten-to-derail-party-on-eve-of-election-8591797.html ]Private messages from the Ukip treasurer, Stuart Wheeler, and prominent MEP Godfrey Bloom, published in The Observer, suggested the party needed to buy policies “off the shelf” from think-tanks.[/url]

The attraction of UKIP to a minority of electorate appears to based on no more than the fact that they are neither the official Tory Party nor the LibDems. In other words they represent the new protest party.

And it would appear not a particularly good protest party at that. Normally "the third party" can expect to achieve stunning by-election victories in midterm of a parliament, ones which cause political earthquakes in otherwise safe seats which deeply upset the two main parties. Certainly the Liberals/SDP/LibDems have achieved that in the past, even Respect have.

But UKIP failed to win South Shields in the by-election on Thursday. In fact they didn't even come close - Labour got more than twice the votes that UKIP got.

Granted, the Tory vote collapsed in South Shields, and the LibDem vote was obliterated, but the Labour vote was pretty much unaffected - the 1.6% drop is well within accepted margin of errors for opinion polls, and represents no more than a typical daily variation, and could in fact pretty much disappear with a couple of recounts.

Which suggests that UKIP eats into the Tory and LibDem vote and not Labour. The reason UKIP did reasonably well on Thursday was because the elections were held primarily in English rural areas - in other words the Tory heartland.

But it was less than a quarter of the vote, of approximately a third of the electorate, in rural England. They have a hell of a way to go before they make inroads into solid Labour areas and achieve the necessary victories - as South Shields showed.

Which suggests that UKIP eats into the Tory and LibDem vote and not Labour.

Labour seem to have suffered the greatest swing according to [url= http://www.markpack.org.uk/40907/labour-are-the-big-losers-from-ukips-surge/ ]this analysis[/url]

So a Liberal Democrat claims that the Labour are the the biggest losers in UKIP's increased popularity, and the LibDems the least ?

Now that's what I call putting on a brave face after your candidate comes 7th and gets less than half the votes that the BNP got.

what a website from a politically motivated blogger that puts up a graph and cites itself as the source without any data ... it must be true

But it was less than a quarter of the vote, of approximately a third of the electorate

The latter being a very important point. Sorry I've not read the whole of this thread and the point has probably already been made, but I'd imagine those who wanted to make a protest by voting UKIP were over-represented in those who could be bothered to vote - the proportion of UKIP voters amongst those who didn't vote is likely to be a lot lower. Hence in an election with a higher turnout (ie a general election) they're unlikely to get anywhere near that share of the vote.

aracer is clearly part of the westminster establishment elite 😉

Will be interesting what happens when folk see their policies

Also interesting to see what a disprooportionate amount of coverage they get but I dont think thatis right wing bias I justthink thre is a massive anti EU vibe to the media - anyone remember a positive story on the EU in the press ever?

JY, tut, tut, please be fair. I am fundamentally against the concept of introducing fixed exchange rates in areas that do not fulfil the criteria for "optimum currency areas." That is different from being anti-EU and I doubt that (m)any UKIP candidates would understand the issue anyway. Most of the problems that I highlight on here stem directly or indirectly from the fact that Europe does not qualify as an OCA. Indeed, politically, I have great concerns that the ultimate breakdown of the € will have adverse effects on European harmony with a consequent and potentially dangerous rise in nationalism. Sadly I am not confident that there is a middle ground. I would like to see large parts of the € project remain, not least because it has removed the grotesque prospect of war from the region. But the absurd attachment to the fixed currency will make such an adjustment extremely difficult.

NF's immaturity when shown in his childlike and moronic attack of HvR illustrates clearly why UKIP is not the answer to Europe's problems. To be partisan here, DC is probably the closest to being correct IMO. We should desire to be members of a REFORMED Europe. Again not likely to be heard from UKIP.

But I do not agree with EL about there being no evidence of voters being attracted to UKIP policies. Now it's difficult to be precise on their policies once you get past two/three but I spent much of Friday driving and listening to the radio talk shows. Time after time, voters were stating their annoyance at the idea of protest votes and stated that there were specific reasons why they voted for UKIP. Their's were positive (sic) votes for the party whose polices most closely addressed their current concerns. They spanned quite a spectrum of society but with an undercurrent of social conservatism with very much a little "c". That is why Con and Lab need to take note. The Lib Dems were largely stuffed as they lost their traditional place as the home of the protest vote and (like the BNP before them?) they are shown to be very different beasts in power than merely in the relatively easy role of minority opposition.

As for media bias, that will be debated for hours. In the end, UKIP is a simply a story with a "character" at it's heart. Hence it sells headlines. Can anyone name (party's supporters apart) anyone from The Greens? Not quite front page stuff!

I spent much of Friday driving and listening to the radio talk shows. Time after time, voters were stating their annoyance at the idea of protest votes and stated that there were specific reasons why they voted for UKIP.

You genuinely think that your average UKIP voter is so motivated that they would phone a radio talk show and discuss politics ?

I can believe that UKIP members, candidates, and committed supporters, might feel strongly enough to phone talk shows, but I struggle to believe that they might be typical of last thursday's UKIP voters.

BTW, Mervyn King does deserve a bad press rather than hallowed status. His own departments were flagging the risks building up in the financial sector but he did not tackle them. Asleep at the watch. The forecasting record of the BoE has been poor hence their/his credibility needs to be questioned. They are also promoting a policy that is not have the desired effect because the one sector that he/they (should) understand remains broken or at least only in recovery stage given last week's 1Q results.

But as you know, I was not referring to Mervyn King! Think more Italy, Greece and Cyprus. 😉

Time after time, voters were stating their annoyance at the idea of protest votes and stated that there were specific reasons why they voted for UKIP

Did they state what those reasons were, other than that they weren't Lab/Con/LD?

Ernie, I am well aware of how BBC goes about dragging up volunteers. However, I do also credit them with some editorial standards and enough to indicate that, in this case, you are mistaken. There is evidence that people are drawn to UKIP (in addition to be driven from other parties). In addition to me, JY can point out that you have another unlikely ally in Ken Clarke 😉

Ernie, I am well aware of how BBC goes about dragging up volunteers.

Are you confusing me with someone else ?

I haven't mentioned anything about the BBC or volunteers. Whatever that means.

Good question Aracer, since the challenge for the main parties is the same ideas/desires exist win them as well despite officialy policy stances. So difficult to argue whether the ideas (EU, immigration, gay marriage, traditional (?) values/xenophobia) are unique to any party frankly.

[img] [/img]

JY, tut, tut, please be fair

Not sure how this could be considered unfair nor do i think you missed the point i made. He is not elected and doing economic actions that affect people ? Unlected folk is not an EU issue you can find them here easily. You got the point though so no idea why I had to do this

Can anyone name (party's supporters apart) anyone from The Greens? Not quite front page stuff!