What can you get for £500k round your way?
The house we bought in February.
Onich?
That's what I was thinking, I think it's a B&B and we've stayed there.
Yep, I’ve been predicting the collapse of the UK Housing market for years
You’ve been wrong so far. How many years before you’re proven right? It’s easy to be right eventually if you predict the same thing over and over again.
Yeah, I mean it's the same as "every cracked windscreen will eventually shatter".
The reality though is that the UK Economy is almost entirely based on our housing market as it underwrites our financial institutions and there is almost nothing the BOE / Gov won't do to protect it, because if they don't the UK will effectively fall into bankruptcy.
That's not to say it doesn't 'correct' on occasion, but it's usually short-lived and comes at a time of great economic upheaval, so it's not really a time when buyers can improve their income to catch up.
That's before we even get into "average house price" and the effect of decades of Brownfield BTL market flats has on the "average house" in the UK.
a quick search suggests that budget will buy you a small wreck down here.
Jeezo that is nuts. We have a similar sized place but really nicely done up with a bigger garden that cost £200k less. And it's in an AONB
surely you sell it and buy Bitcoin?
Jokes.
We too are living in a bonkers local market - coastal West Wales - and it sucks being local and not being able to buy ANYTHING due to the ridiculous house price increase.
One bed ex coastal shed anyone - offers in excess of £325k!
What confuses me it the price of flats, especially the new build ones in renovated old industrial buildings...
My local area for 150k you can get a flat so small that you literally won't be able to swing a cat in it, with zero storage space... but for the same money you can get a reasonable 2 bed terrace with a small yard and a kitchen that isn't part of the living room.
Correct me if i am getting this wrong.
People are buying houses with high LTV ratio
They are then living beyond their means and racking up unsecured/secured loans either getting on with their lives or improving their houses.
They then get to the end of their mortgage deal and finding that the inflated values of their homes means they are able to remortgage the house for even more than they initially had at a cheaper rate so they consolidate all this extra debt into a bigger mortgage with the benfit of cheaper rates.
Call me old fashioned but that strikes me as a recipe for disaster and wasnt it toxic debt that caused all the troubles a few years ago with banks. Imagine bragging about being more and more in debt and being able to juggle it about a bit to make it more acceptable 🙁
Having a highly valued house is likely to mean you can just pay for a nice care home that much longer before you own a low enough amount of money to get it paid for you.
I've predicted nine of the last three crashes
Correct me if i am getting this wrong.
People are buying houses with high LTV ratio
They are then living beyond their means and racking up unsecured/secured loans either getting on with their lives or improving their houses.
They then get to the end of their mortgage deal and finding that the inflated values of their homes means they are able to remortgage the house for even more than they initially had at a cheaper rate so they consolidate all this extra debt into a bigger mortgage with the benfit of cheaper rates.
Call me old fashioned but that strikes me as a recipe for disaster and wasnt it toxic debt that caused all the troubles a few years ago with banks. Imagine bragging about being more and more in debt and being able to juggle it about a bit to make it more acceptable 🙁
I don't think anyone is bragging, more playing the cards they're dealt.
I fit your description pretty much to a T, but then I couldn't buy my first house until I was 40 because of House Price inflation, even then I had to buy a house that had been neglected for decades because the owner was old and in poor health. I was a housing market loser for most of my adult life, there's no way I'm not going to take advantage of being on the winning side now, so I borrowed 10k 2 weeks after I moved in and spent it on renovations, coupled with good old-fashioned graft, I not only made a nice home for my family, but made it worth about £15k more than it was worth, call it debt, credit or leverage, it's all the same and it depends on your point of view I guess, but it was carefully planned and considered.
Now, 2 years later, I'd rather borrow that money cheaply, secured against the home it was spent on. I have of course paid down my mortgage for 2 years and the loan, so I won't owe more than I started, but even if I did, I wouldn't care less. Luckily for me, the market has jumped which means I can borrow it cheaper still. Yes, it follows the same path as every recession before, but what's the point in fighting the tide?
As for "Toxic Debt", yes, some Banks in the UK took the absolute piss during the mid-2000s boom, 100%, 105% even mortgages, self-cert income, almost zero underwriting criteria, if you could get a mobile contract, you could get a mortgage in 2005, if you were prepared to pay the rate. But believe it or not, things have changed. Underwriting is firmer, but more importantly affordability is being judged more closely than ever. If it makes you feel any better, my Bank, who knows everything about me financially says I can borrow over £200k more than I actually have.
Having a highly valued house is likely to mean you can just pay for a nice care home that much longer before you own a low enough amount of money to get it paid for you.
A lot of people in that fortunate situation though are offloading any liquid assets they have to people who would inherit from them anyway. Of course that might have IHT implications depending on how soon they die, but there are a lot of well off pensioners sat on piles of cash in savings etc. that they can't really spend and don't really intend to.
That's another part of the system that's totally broken. As in if everyone was fairly comfortable financially they wouldn't care to much about IHT as a beneficiary of an estate, but as it stands people are finding workarounds to ensure they can pass inheritance on to family rather than the government.
A lot of people in that fortunate situation though are offloading any liquid assets they have to people who would inherit from them anyway.
They will need to have done it a long time ago
P-Jay we are pretty similar in age.
The terms you use in explaining your financials worry me. Not particularly just you but its in general. Here is a list of some of your phrases from one post
Playing the cards
Housing market loser
take advantage of being on the winning side
Its all the same
borrow money cheaply
wont owe more than i started
i wouldnt care less
luckily for me
whats the point in fighting the tide
105% mortgages
This is not what owning a home is about for me. It doesnt surprise me that people get themselves into financial trouble. Your comment about being able to borrow £200k more doesnt fill me with anything other than dread tbh.
Never been able to get a mortgage , tbh , it’s not called a death pledge for nothing .
So doing things the other way involved a lot of work and saving , till had enough cash to just buy a place .
Sounds easy ? no , solicitors were suspicious, even got dropped by one as she was scared about provenance , cash ain’t king no more .
This is not what owning a home is about for me. It doesn't surprise me that people get themselves into financial trouble. Your comment about being able to borrow £200k more doesn't fill me with anything other than dread tbh.
No, me either, I bought a home for my family because renting was a nightmare. Unless you're very fortunate, you're going to have to borrow money to buy a house, so you might as well do it as smartly as possible.
I'm taking advantage of everything I can, to make it the best home I can, as cost-effectively as I can. It's not a business to me and I don't care about it value to sell, just how I can use it to reduce the cost of the borrowing I already have.
People get themselves into financial trouble for all sorts of reasons, temptation lays around every corner for the unwary consumer, but it's not always the case, and it's not really 'the norm', most people have a good handle on credit, and don't over do it, or at least when they start to feel it coming on, do something about it.
1986 she bought her council house for £7k.
my son has just bought a identical house over the road for £185k.
9.8% compound growth for 35 years. What an investment.
You’d still need somewhere to live.
Depends on the C/H dose, surely!
Depends on the C/H dose, surely!
Am I still the only one imagining how much C&H you get for 200k? Given we are all ****ed by global heating it's looking like a good way to go to me
What confuses me it the price of flats, especially the new build ones in renovated old industrial buildings…
utterly absurd in Edinburgh. £500 000 could easily be the cost of a nice 2 or 3 bed flat in a nice area
New conversions actually are cheaper than good tenements per bedroom- but tiny in comparison
They will need to have done it a long time ago
Define long. There's still ways round it if you have enough money....
Most people either bury their heads in the sand till it's too late or they do their part and pay their way in the hope they get a better standard of care off their riches.
Sometimes when I see people predicting the same crash over and over.....I wonder if the fella who's name I can't remember who was looking for a house or flat at the same time as me but decided not to because of the crash that was imminent......is still waiting.( I looked for 18 months and have been here 10 years That's a metric **** ton of rent (450PCM.... X 12 X 10 = £54000 and that's a crap 1 bed flat round here ) thrown away - would have covered the "crash" .......( and if it didn't you best own a shot gun and lots of ammo cause it'll be a hell of a storm)
Am I still the only one imagining how much C&H you get for 200k?
Probably less than you'd hope, but more than enough to see you off.
Define long. There’s still ways round it if you have enough money….
Depends - if the council thinnk you have hidden money or given it away even more than 7 years ago they can still go after you for care costs. differnt from IHT
Thanks P-Jay. Totally understand and agree with what you said there. I actually agree with most of what you say earlier, I was just highlighting how we sometimes make it sound so easy in conversations talking about winning etc.
Property and money are two of the most emotive issues in everyone's lives. I got on the property ladder as soon as i could (No help from anyone) and i suppose i have benefitted in some ways even if it hasn't felt like it.
I wonder how many people are choosing to make do rather than remortgage and spend these days? Bigger houses, home improvements etc. My daughter has had what is basically a box room up until the age of 14. I resisted and resisted the urge to load up the mortgage to get a bigger house. Family taking the piss, friends questioning. It would have been so easy to just lump it on the mortgage but it was only in recent years that, for me the bank balance said yes thats a good idea. Takes all sorts.
Onich?
That’s what I was thinking, I think it’s a B&B and we’ve stayed there.
I don't think It's a B&B, but there are a couple nearby.
mattyfez
Free MemberWhat confuses me it the price of flats, especially the new build ones in renovated old industrial buildings…
My local area for 150k you can get a flat so small that you literally won’t be able to swing a cat in it, with zero storage space… but for the same money you can get a reasonable 2 bed terrace with a small yard and a kitchen that isn’t part of the living room.
This is very true. In Manchester there is no shortage of terrace houses for sub £100k, yet many prefer to live in a flat on the edge of town for £150k+ and half the size. These terrace houses are not all that nice but i often think that when people say they cant afford to buy a house - what they really mean is they can't afford to buy the type of house that they want. So they pay crazy money to rent instead.
My advice if you want a nice house - start by buying a not so nice house and make the best of it you can and then move onwards and upwards.
Depends – if the council thinnk you have hidden money or given it away even more than 7 years ago they can still go after you for care costs. differnt from IHT
Yep, well over 7 years which is why I said they needed to have done it a long time ago.
A lot of old red brick houses in Manchester were very cheaply made and are well past their sell-by-date though so you can kind of see the appeal of somewhere new which is cheap to heat/look after.
I suspect a lot of flats are built to be bought by investors, either to let or just to sit on.
Our neighbour, who is also the estate agent…
If it’s really that good a offer, why don’t they sell theirs?
Maybe the neighbour doesn’t like the OP?
Maybe the neighbour doesn’t like the OP?
Ha 😁 well neighbour is maybe not 100% accurate.
He doesn't live in the close, but on the other side of the road (we're on the end corner of the close).
His place is huge, twice the size of ours, bought as a real wreck, and half-way through being renovated. Not something you could buy and move straight into.
The reality though is that the UK Economy is almost entirely based on our housing market as it underwrites our financial institutions and there is almost nothing the BOE / Gov won’t do to protect it, because if they don’t the UK will effectively fall into bankruptcy.
The BoE regularly runs analyses looking at what would happen if interest rates went up 5% etc; which is partly why borrowing requirements are more stringent now with affordability checks at set interest rates and caps on mortgages above set income multiples.
Very unlikely we'll have another house price crash which causes significant problems.
What can you get for £500k round your way?
The current answer is that there is nothing on the market between £400k and £550k at the moment.
If there was, it would probably sell for 15-25% over asking, likely having offers before it made open market and without viewings.
His place is huge, twice the size of ours, bought as a real wreck,
Hmm, estate agent buying a property with potential? If he handled the sale I wonder how many offers made it to the vendor🤔?
Hmm, estate agent buying a property with potential? If he handled the sale I wonder how many offers made it to the vendor🤔?
Probably zero, I think it belonged to his uncle - or might have been great uncle - defo a relative.
I know they moved into a much smaller, modern bungalow in town.
I bought my first house last year and according to the local EAs it has increased by 60k since then.
I'd be unable to afford it now - just 12 months later.
I just want a place to live, fed up of sharing and paying rent; but this house price appreciation is royally screwing over young people. And I know how awful it is to reach middle age whilst still renting - I bought the place the same week I turned 40.
Housing should be a human right; instead it increasingly brings out the worse in human nature - house price bragging, predatory banks and EAs, and the government are underwriting it all as they know it gets them re-elected.
The whole thing stinks.
Housing should be a human right;
Indeed it should be - but not ownership just a right to decent housing at a decent cost
but this house price appreciation is royally screwing over young people.
Yup - the flat I bought 30 years ago on a nurses salary at 2.5x salary would now be worth 12x salary
I don't think I could buy anything in Edinburgh now on a single nurses salary - perhaps an ex council in a very dodgy area
Coincidentally, we finally got around to watching "The Big Short" last night.
In Manchester there is no shortage of terrace houses for sub £100k, yet many prefer to live in a flat on the edge of town for £150k+ and half the size.
Of the two, I'd probably choose the terrace as well - but a new build flat will come with a guarantee of a few years, no asbestos or lead, no copper pipes waiting to pinhole leak, no gardens (which some people don't like!), no leaky roofs (or at least someone else handles it at communal expense), more security (if you have a good front door) etc. I understand why someone want that instead of terraces that need maintenance and dirty hands.
We need to build more social housing I guess.
This would keep private landlord rents honest too currently there's no market forces to keep costs under control.
**** me indeed. I'd like a 1 bed flat. I had to move back to my dad's when I split with my ex. I earn just above minimum wage. To buy in my area would cost upwards of £180k! To rent would be 90% of my take home after paying child maintenance. The fact that housing in the UK is looked at as an investment rather than a necessity is ridiculous
This would keep private landlord rents honest too currently there’s no market forces to keep costs under control.
Just to point out - higher the value of the house, higher the rent. It's an interlink that's hard to disrupt.
The biggest thing is not to (again) brand landlords as 'bad', but to look overall at the culture and systems that are ever pushing house prices higher.
This would keep private landlord rents honest too currently there’s no market forces to keep costs under control.
In what way are landlords being dishonest?
currently there’s no market forces to keep costs under control.
What do you think is driving the costs. ?
Up here prices have been down due to downturn and lots of people moving away.
Things are picking up so rents are on the up.
Supply and demand is the market force. Not an alternative cheaper supply / rent control.
Just to point out – higher the value of the house, higher the rent. It’s an interlink that’s hard to disrupt.
I'd disagree. Whilst high rents can drive higher house prices, the opposite isnt true. More expensive houses do not command a rent that is proportional to their value in the same way that cheaper houses do, as there are relatively few people willing to bin £4k a month on rent
Give them a stupid counter-offer. Tell them you love it where you are, you don’t want to move, but you’d consider it for £600k or whatever it’d take to make it worthwhile for you to actually go through all that rigmarole. You’ll find out pretty quickly how much they “really” want it.
The wife and I sat down and had a serious chat about it. Neither of us wants to move, so defo not going to go any further.
I was vetoed from trying the above suggestion for shits and giggles 😆 I think she was worried that they'd say ok, and we'd then have to engage.
