I opened the app to play a bit of Calexico and was confronted with an announcement screen. Did I want to go lossless over WiFi?
Yes sirree Bob!
I haven't done an a-b comparison but it sounded ok to me (albeit I was only wanting background music while I was designing some cupboards) but it will stop me from worrying about whether to subscribe to Deezer etc.
(Odd that it refuses to let me edit correct Calexico)
Calexico, not Calecico, but as OP I can't edit my post.
Ah yes, it does, but after a funny delay which makes the above look mad.
Taken them long enough - about four years after other music services… 😒
Its only been 8 years in the making - well done Spotify......So we are back to CD quality in 2025, 40 years after they came out. what a time to be alive!
You should still drop Spotify and use Tidal as they don't pay artists properly.
You should still drop Spotify and use Tidal as they don't pay artists properly
I hope this is just badly written and you're not advocating not paying artists? Or is it some injoke that's gone over my head?
I think he's suggesting to use Tidal as they pay artists properly and Spotify do not.
I would love to line up audio snobs and do a blind listen challenge to see if anyone can genuinly spot the difference between lossless and whatever non lossless is.
whatever non lossless is.
Lossy.
I would love to line up audio snobs and do a blind listen challenge to see if anyone can genuinely spot the difference between lossless and whatever non lossless is.
On a phone with Bluetooth headphones....I'd be pretty hard pushed.
On my (not very expensive but still quite good) stereo system....easy but not infallible.
Using my mid range wired headphones into a cheap but good Chinese dac from a Wiim streamer? every single time.
and use Tidal
I was genuinely disappointed in just how awful their interface and suggestions was for me.
Gave it some time, made sure all my library was imported and favourites added, and they still kept recommending popular shite I have no interest in while completely ignoring my taste. Oh well, I tried.
Still not gone back to Spotify though.
They've also added a "mix" function with the option of customising your mix.
I tried it with my 2 Sonos sls and mini sub. Probably placebo but i think it sounded good
I would love to line up audio snobs and do a blind listen challenge to see if anyone can genuinly spot the difference between lossless and whatever non lossless is.
Where do I line up? Can we use my hifi not your Argos micro hifi? 😉
I would love to line up audio snobs and do a blind listen challenge to see if anyone can genuinely spot the difference between lossless and whatever non lossless is.
On a phone with Bluetooth headphones....I'd be pretty hard pushed.
On my (not very expensive but still quite good) stereo system....easy but not infallible.
Using my mid range wired headphones into a cheap but good Chinese dac from a Wiim streamer? every single time.
it checks whether the end device can handle it, which seems sensible. I’m assuming an iPhone can but connected via cable to what Spotify charmingly refers to as “Katie’s automobile” (vw caddy head unit) highest quality possible is “very high”
I would love to line up audio snobs and do a blind listen challenge to see if anyone can genuinly spot the difference between lossless and whatever non lossless is.
Your music will still be rubbish whatever the bitrate 😉
After the long wait It's actually a bit half-arsed. It's not the same Hi-Res as Tidal or Qobuz. Spotify is just above CD quality.
Spotify haven't bothered to make their hi-res work w chromecast, so you only get the old 320 kbps quality.
And Spotify don't have the wasapi exclusive setting, so it all streams via the windows sound engine and gets lossy going that route. W Tidal or qobuz you are able to stream direct to your DAC, but not w Spotify.
So for my set up, either streaming round the house w chromecasts, or using an ifi day from my PC, I am unable to get a Spotify lossless stream. Had kept Spotify family running for the kids as they like the socials, and thought I could rationalise my streaming accounts, but looks like no. I'll see if I can wean the kids off Spotify and get a family tidal instead.
Well thank you for posting this, I had a upgrade stereo fitted in my van due to always wanting a nice sound system etc, when the guy showed me how it worked he played it via apple music and a little on tidal, when I said I was on Spotify he said listen to the difference absolutely night and day.
Still awesome sound system but was going to change to Apple phone and Apple music, now I can just get new andriod when needed.
For all those people saying it doesn't make a difference it certainly does even to my old ears.
I would love to line up audio snobs and do a blind listen challenge to see if anyone can genuinly spot the difference between lossless and whatever non lossless is.
I have the same album as a download. on vinyl and on CD as have also listened to it on spotify. The differences are obvious
I have not had that notification for spotify but I have paid for the highest quality option
I would love to line up audio snobs and do a blind listen challenge to see if anyone can genuinly spot the difference between lossless and whatever non lossless is.
Anytime you like, I’ll listen on my system though. I admit to previously not really being able to correctly identify with statistical significance a few years ago but thanks to ear training from a mate in the studio/acoustic business who set up my room and working through the Harman Ear Training program I am now pretty confident at identifying A / B differences on the setup in my fully acoustically treated room with Dynaudio LYD 48 monitors and twin Dynaudio 18s dual opposed subs and peq applied for room modes under 300hz with a RT60 of .29s, or I’m just as happy sitting on my arse using my iem’s to identify lossy tracks.
My ears are the only part of my body that SPMS hasn’t royally ****ed so I make the most of them 😉 , not that listening to a lossy file makes the music any less enjoyable- if the music is good then that’s all that matters
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Not that I’ve ever used Spotify, Daniel Ek has always been an utter dick which has only been confirmed with his financial dive into Helsing A.I warfare technology
Roon with 2tb of my own cd copies and Tidal/Apple music ftw.
Self confessed music snob, not an audio snob.
😀🎧👂
I do love a bit of placebo
/p>
Love that tune. One of my favorites. Just watched that with my 4 year old
Can someone recommend me a "cheap but good Chinese dac" and explain whatever the fiddlesticks a "Wiim streamer" is please....
I'm currently running Amazon Music Ultra HD, via Apple Airplay, using an Apple Airport Express as DAC, through a 2010's era Marantz amp and Mission floor standing speakers. Together this sounds pretty awesome. But could it be even awesomer?
I was listening to Elgar Cello Concerto yesterday and could hear every tiny sound in the concert hall, even the conductor marking time, so my setup can't be all that bad.
If you have decent speakers it will sound good in isolation even if a lossy format. But if you compare the same music from a lossless source it will sound better
It might be worth pointing out that what we are talking about here is moving from 320 Kilobits to 1411 Kilobits. This means technically the same level of definition as a CD and easily distinguishable with even cheap hifi gear as long as the original master has been done properly and the music actually has some dynamic range. I.e if you listen to some classical music or well mastered contemporary stuff then you will enjoy a better experience.
its what you listen to, how you listen to it and on what equipment.
TL:DR listening to Charlie XCX on your phone on a train…might as well be 128kbits AAC like in the old days!
If you have decent speakers it will sound good in isolation even if a lossy format. But if you compare the same music from a lossless source it will sound better
No that's completely incorrect - lossy music sound better on rubbish gear like airpods. Better equipment and especially speakers reveals the lack of dynamic range and increased compression meaning its a worse listening experience.
Behind the curve much. This afternoon is the first time I've switched to spotify lossless (annoyingly I use Chromecast to cast from BBC Sounds Radio app a lot and therefore use it for spotify by default too, it doesn't support it), this afternoon I thought I'd go straight to wiim from spotify and up the quality and I'm not sure if it's confirmation bias but things sound better. The cymbals and high hats are crisp with no compression.
For reference Wiin Pro going into Ruark MR1mk2's through an optical cable and I have an old not great Yamaha sub under the desk too. Listened to some Thrice, God is an Astronaut and now Floating Points ... will transfer to the QAcoustics M20s in the kitchen after a dog walk.
I would love to line up audio snobs and do a blind listen challenge to see if anyone can genuinly spot the difference between lossless and whatever non lossless is.
I don't call myself an audiophile but I can tell, especially when using headphones. Not because of increased dynamic range or any waffly stuff, but because MP3s hurt my ears after a while. I've no idea why and no-one else mentions this, but there's some sort of feeling of pressure like I'm listening to something really loud, but it's not loud. For years I never listened to music whilst travelling because of this, I thought I just didn't like it, but I realised I can listen to lossless music indefinitely and be fully comfortable. It also applies to a lesser extent to use of better Bluetooth codecs like AptX or LDAC versus SBC.
I have verified this in a blind test because I had to re-install Amazon music and it forgot my settings so was playing standard quality without me knowing, and I could tell straight away. A similar thing happened when the Bluetooth codecs got messed up, although that took me a bit longer to realise.
Daniel Ek has always been an utter dick which has only been confirmed with his financial dive into Helsing A.I warfare technology
Seen this on the socials recently and have ditched Spotify. I like the app, its great, but I'm not a fan of paying rich boys to do silly things with their billions.
Trying Qobuz, have also tried Tidal. Neither are as good as Spotify but I did use Soundiiz to migrate all my "music" from Spotify expecting there to be dropout, but everything went over. So while Qobuz doesn't seem as immediately usable, it does seem to have all the musics.
Have a read through this article about Spotify, and see if you’re still prepared to use their services.
As far as DACs are concerned, I’ve got two, a Fiio KA5, and an iFi Go Max, neither are particularly pricy, the iFi has a permanently fixed USB-C cable to plug into the device, with two Jack sockets, a standard 3.5 unbalanced, and a 4.4mm balanced. The Fiio needs a suitable separate cable to connect to the device, and it also has Balanced/Unbalanced output sockets.
Difficult to tell them apart, it boils down to whether you want to use a longer separate cable to connect to whatever your music source is; the cable for the Fiio is 117mm long, from end to end, the iFi cable is 102mm, both DACs are a bit over 50mm.
All my source material is Apple Lossless, on my 16ProMax, listening through Røde NTH-100 wired studio monitor headphones; which are incredibly good, as one might expect from a company that produces microphones and studio equipment, and the best bit is you can find them for around £120, and they have a lifetime warranty, provided you register them. And they back it up, because a headband clip broke after three years, and they replaced them without a quibble. They’re very comfortable, and sound bloody marvellous!
Can someone recommend me a "cheap but good Chinese dac" ...
I just pledged for this one on Kickstarter
Until that turns up I use one of these in the car - FiiO JM21 - it's pretty good and probably the cheapest decent one around (don't be fooled by Amazon Chinese copies, they are garbage), but hoping the new one has better battery life.
I'm anti-Spotify, a bit like CZ, but not as vociferous (I'm past giving a crap what other people do), but there is also this
I confess I very occasionally use it via my partner's subscription, but mostly I buy flac from bandcamp etc. Though I probably couldn't tell the difference between a flac and a VBR mp3, the FiiO works betterer with flac files 🙂
Have a read through this article about Spotify, and see if you’re still prepared to use their services.
One party saying they've done something, the other saying they haven't. Not something I'd be changing my approach to music streaming over, until it at least gets to court
they don't pay artists properly.
They give all the money (that they don't cream off by feeding AI slop to listeners to divert subs and ad revenue away from artists) to Joe Rogan instead. I suppose now you can listen to him say 'thats wild' occasionally in higher fidelity.
Its an interesting exercise to add up all the budgets of the BBC's national radio output - 24hr services delivering music, including their own music festivals, news and current affairs, drama, comedy, the shipping forecast, whole shebang and comparing it to what Spotify pays Joe Rogan to listen unquestioningly to someones grubby thoughts for 3 hours.
How does a DAC fit into a home system and do I need one, or does the MacBook Air have one built in?
My current set-up (due to space) is...
MacBook Air* for Spotify > Cable out of headphone port > into Denon D-M41DAB
Rega Turntable > NAD Pre Amp > into Denon D-M41DAB
Which part of the chain would a DAC go?
(*I run Boom2 on MacBook to adjust sound for my old ears! 😀 )
https://www.globaldelight.com/boom2/
How does a DAC fit into a home system and do I need one, or does the MacBook Air have one built in?
My current set-up (due to space) is...
MacBook Air* for Spotify > Cable out of headphone port > into Denon D-M41DAB
Rega Turntable > NAD Pre Amp > into Denon D-M41DAB
Which part of the chain would a DAC go?
A DAC is a Digital to Analogue Convertor.
The headphone port is the analogue bit. There will be a DAC in your Macbook.
Not sure what outputs the Macbook has? If it was a Windows PC, then you could connect a DAC to your USB ports, before sending the analogue signal to your Denon. It's very likely that an external DAC would have better specs than what is inside a laptop and would give a "better" sound. YMMV.
Bear in mind you can pay a few pounds for an external DAC, right up to £10,000's.
The turntable does not have or need a DAC, it's purely analogue.
Oh yeah, soz I recommended a DAP not a DAC. I'm so used to calling them iPods.
ps. why is the format of this thread so bleedin messy?
Whatever next? Sky offering HD as standard rather than charging you extra for it?
I'd already left Spotify for Tidal anyhow. They don't seem to be that ethical a company. Bit like Strava.
To jump in on the questions - I've read that android OS doesn't really support lossless, and I'm not allowed to install the Spotify app on my work PC. What's the best relatively cheap and easy way to get some lossless audio into my speakers in that case? Would a DAC resolve the android issue?
Well I have lossless as an option in Spotify but when I select it I always get a notice I have to click through warning that it will use more data. I don't know if lossless will be selected at all if I set quality to "Auto". Also, some material is not available in lossless.
Another issue with Spotify even if it doesn't directly affect those in the UK (until Farage gets in power maybe).
I'll stick to ripping CDs to FLAC
One party saying they've done something, the other saying they haven't. Not something I'd be changing my approach to music streaming over, until it at least gets to court
So you believe Spotify, despite their long reported history of provably stiffing the artists they’ve signed up?
I’ve spoken to a recording artist at one of her gigs, and she’d just had payment for a million streams of one of her albums - it was around £1000. If that had been for sales of the same album on CD, at £10.99, she’d have been a very happy bunny. That was on Spotify.
To jump in on the questions - I've read that android OS doesn't really support lossless, and I'm not allowed to install the Spotify app on my work PC. What's the best relatively cheap and easy way to get some lossless audio into my speakers in that case? Would a DAC resolve the android issue?
Yeah it's not bit-perfect on Android because it goes through the mixer, and that resamples it to 48KHz.
Android from v14 onwards in theory has the ability to use direct to DAC audio, bypassing the mixer/resampler to deliver bit-perfect audio. However the app itself has to support this and I don't believe Spotify does.
Put a like/"me too!" comment on this thread and maybe they'll get around to implementing it
I’ve spoken to a recording artist at one of her gigs, and she’d just had payment for a million streams of one of her albums - it was around £1000. If that had been for sales of the same album on CD, at £10.99, she’d have been a very happy bunny.
How much profit would she make on the £10.99 though when you've taken all the production, VAT and distribution costs out? A couple of quid maybe? And once someone has bought it that's it, no more income from that CD. And the bulk of the CD sales will be on initial release and drop off quickly after that.
At least with streaming you get paid every time someone plays your songs. They get stuck on playlists and get played even if the consumer doesn't actively request it.
All forms of income sources are available to artists nowadays Vinyl, CDs, Cassette, Streaming and of course live gigs.
I agree streaming should pay more but you can't rely on it as your only revenue, it's just part of it.
Thank god. Lossless makes a big difference to me when i'm listening to Crass or Discharge 🤣
I’ve spoken to a recording artist at one of her gigs, and she’d just had payment for a million streams of one of her albums - it was around £1000. If that had been for sales of the same album on CD, at £10.99, she’d have been a very happy bunny.
Just because someone's song comes on whilst I am working or doing something else, doesn't mean I would have bought the album. Which is a problem all of its own.
How much profit would she make on the £10.99 though when you've taken all the production, VAT and distribution costs out? A couple of quid maybe? And once someone has bought it that's it, no more income from that CD. And the bulk of the CD sales will be on initial release and drop off quickly after that.
If they’re selling CD’s at a gig, the £10.99 is surely all profit, because recording and production costs are all ready paid up front. While I’ll almost certainly have an artists new album in my Music Library, if I go to a gig I nearly always buy merchandise and a CD and get the CD signed. If it’s someone who hasn’t toured for ages, and I’ve got old CD’s, I’ll take those along and ask for them to be signed, sometimes I’ll take vinyl along, but that’s not very often these days. Plus artists often attract new audiences who will buy CD’s and new vinyl, I see it happening all the time at gigs; in the case of one particular artist who I see fairly regularly she sells bags, keyrings and a lovely book to go with her last album, with lyrics and the story behind the songs, and her and her husband do a brisk business before and after the show.
If they’re selling CD’s at a gig, the £10.99 is surely all profit
Quite a few, especially the large venues take a cut of the merch sales. It's why some artists and doing popup merch stores in cities they're gigging in.
If they’re selling CD’s at a gig, the £10.99 is surely all profit, because recording and production costs are all ready paid up front.
...don't ever set up your own business! 😀
Spotify is the modern radio. So many bands I have discovered by letting my playlist continue. Bought the records of a few and left them in my sons room with his turntable. It is so much easier to stream.
If everyone who has an issue with the spotify top dog investing naughty products, I genuinely admire your lifestyle choice if you boycott other companys.
And I like the lossless, tried Tidal and Amazon music but returned to Spotify.
as above about the 10.99 profit. From memory I recall being told the “artist” cut was about £1 and “writer” another £1 on a CD sale. Possibly bollocks but if close how much were the tiny bands actually getting from their sub 10000 cd sales? As some are doing now if you don't like being exploited why
allow your music to be on Spotify.
There just so many artists now, who can record on a MacBook at home, the pie is only so big.
I have a cheap Chinese DAC with balanced input connected to my Beyerdynamic headphones. Sounds pretty good to me.