CK - re-read my earlier post. I said the idea was to keep mild -ve energy balance when speed training.. ie keep the carb stores just under full. Starving myself and letting the stores get way low causes problems.
It was possible to starve myself to a much greater extent though whilst base training.
Oh and the car comparisom doesn't help - cars only have one type of fuel, people have three which are inter-related in certain ways and not in others.
If you like, it's a bit (but not entirely) like having several fuel maps in your ECU. Driving a particular way will use one map that favours say economy, and another way will bring in the performance map. Except they use different kinds of fuel. And those fuels are also used for other things and affect the driver, and his state of mind and his brain chemistry... and so on 🙂
I must admit I've lost track of the original post at this point!
Wow - poor OP asks for some advice and gets lots of arguing people...
If it helps from my real life experience - I tried to loose weight by strict calorie control (2500), I felt awful, dizzy etc.. and basically stopped training as I felt so bad
So instead I ate sensibly, swapped out a lunch time coke for squash, chocolate bar for apple etc... and started commuting to work - 5 miles or so each way. I commuted absolutely flat out and found that I lost a kg a week for the first 5 weeks then stopped.
What I realised was that I was in fact still losing a bit of fat after that but the muscle gain was outweighing it, so much that after a couple of months I started gaining a small amount.
What I did to measure progress was use a tape measure instead of the scales.
EDIT - btw I used a reward system (to justify bike bit purchases) based on achieving personal bests & completeing events rather than based on pure weight loss.
Reading this has made me really hungry, I've nothing here to eat and now I've got to go out and ride up Bear Road in the rain. It will be both intense and slow so at least I'm guaranteed to lose weight. 🙂
poor OP asks for some advice and gets lots of arguing people...
Welcome to STW, please enjoy your stay.
What I realised was that I was in fact still losing a bit of fat after that but the muscle gain was outweighing it, so much that after a couple of months I started gaining a small amount.
Apparently that's not really possible as the maximum rate of muscle creation is significantly lower than the possible rate of fat loss, so even with the different densities you'd have to be gaining muscle like a body builder on 'roids to even maintain weight while on a reasonably tame diet. (came from a bodybuilding friend of mine but has been repeated a few times by others since).
Coffeeking maybe unnecessary is the wrong word, but for most recreational athletes cross-training will give a better marginal improvement in overall fitness than additional time doing a single activity. The two biggest problems with gym work are motivation and lack of knowledge about the right kind of training. Once you get the training right and start seeing results the motivation takes care of itself.
Have to say that my experiences are very similar to molgrips, it might be a case of eat less move more but if the type of moving causes you to hurt for the next day or week its no good. I find it fairly easy to cut back my food intake but when I do and i'm doing intense exercise i feel much more fatigued, recovery type drinks can help to prevent this, or I just eat more, on the other hand I could cycle for ever at a steady pace!
CK it is possible. He was clearly gaining a small amount of muscle (not the maximum) and losing a small amount of fat - makes sense no?
CK it is possible. He was clearly gaining a small amount of muscle (not the maximum) and losing a small amount of fat - makes sense no?
Yup, c'est possible.
rs - I find carb drink is the best way to help this. Take enough carbs for the workout you are doing, or slightly under (1g per kg weight per hour exercising I think) then you should feel ok. Actually, that figure is how many carbs you can absorb whilst exercising, not how many you'll need.... but it helps you eat normally whilst off the bike and still get your riding done.
I'm not one for measuring foods and counting carbs etc, but after my thread about how long you can pedal standing up I made an effort to do as much of my ride home each day standing up, with the intention of increasing strength not losing weight! But the result was my legs were ****ed and I wanted to eat more to help them recover. Maybe a day off in between would have helped too but that kind of backs up what you said. If your doing intense exercise you can't do it so much therefore while I may burn more calories riding home in an intense manner its not sustainable so in the long run, taking it easy and doing it every day whilst not feeling like you need to feed your muscles probably works better. Of course if your fit enough to do the intense stuff everyday, maybe then it works out better. There's a lot of variables in there.
FFS molgrips - needing a carb drink and recovery drinks? Are you an elite athlete? No - read what tribal chief had to say - carb drinks are just massive amounts of empty calories.
No wonder you find losing weight hard when you are taking in massive amounts of empty calories ( probably quick acting as well)
*shakes head*
FFS molgrips - needing a carb drink and recovery drinks? Are you an elite athlete? No - read what tribal chief had to say - carb drinks are just massive amounts of empty calories.
Mate, what makes you think you are so much more intelligent than I am?
Carb drinks are carbs, and carbs are what you use for cycling. If you cycle, you need them from somewhere. Better to get them without any additional fat, don't you think? And when riding, in an easily digestable form that won't divert bloody supply to your stomach and away from your muscles just to digest it.
I wish I were as intelligent as you TJ. Then I might try different things, watch very carefully and see how my body responds. I'd try the effects of various dosages of carbs versus different normal foods. I'd certainly not just spout on on a forum about how wrong people were based on.. general cockyness..
Oh wait.
Btw I can give you the email of Matt Hart at Torq - you can tell him at length how wrong he is if you like?
The bottom line is that I want to race as fast as I can, and train as hard as I can. That may not be much, but the carbs and recovery and stuff do help. I can tell you for absolute fact that if I go on a big hard ride WITHOUT carb drink then I'll be massively hungry for days - then, if I don't eat enough I'll feel absoultey awful and won't be able to ride well for a while.
Maybe you're too sedate to have experienced this, or you donm't ride enough?
Oh and as for fast absorbed carbs.. well you might wanna read about the difference between the effects of high GI carbs during and immediately after exercise...
EDIT: In fact, you might wanna read up in general instead of spouting your old 'it's all a load of rubbish' story every time this comes up.
i think your trying to much to juggle losing weight and feeling good. i used to do a lot of competitive body building and my body responds really well to bulking and cutting so i may not be in the same boat as you but when i was on a cutt it was bloody horrible and you just have to suffer. yes you feel energy levels are low but you got to man up and get on with it after 4 weeks i could get ripped with extremely low bf%.
FFS molgrips - needing a carb drink and recovery drinks? Are you an elite athlete? No - read what tribal chief had to say - carb drinks are just massive amounts of empty calories.
FFS TJ! You don't have to be an elite athlete to benefit from these things, The only difference between us regular people and elite athletes is they can go longer and harder before feeling knackered, for us regular people it takes less to feel knackered, but the knackeredness (technical term there) can still be helped the same way. Maybe taking these things slows down the losing weight goal but it can help you get out and do it again the next day and they probably do stop the post exercise refuelling with the wrong things!
i think your trying to much to juggle losing weight and feeling good. i used to do a lot of competitive body building and my body responds really well to bulking and cutting so i may not be in the same boat as you but when i was on a cutt it was bloody horrible and you just have to suffer. yes you feel energy levels are low but you got to man up and get on with it after 4 weeks i could get ripped with extremely low bf%.
I think thats a bit different from wanting to feel a bit fitter on the bike though.
in the context of trying to loose fat, i don't think Matt Hart would be telling you to drink Torq carbo and recovery drinks - even though he has product to sell.
Molgrips - maybe you need to read up some real science on this rather than the crap pseudo science from supplement manufacturers.
Its really simple but you won't accept it - if you are exercising and not loosing weight you are taking in too many calories. Carb drinks are basically pure sugars ( malto dextrin), recovery drinks are based on very dubious science - actually you see I have read up on some of this stuff.
recovery drinks 4:1 ratio carbs to protein - the original research is with malnourished elderly, the effect has only been duplicated in extreme endurance athletes such as polar explorers and marines doing 50 mile marches with 50Kg packs day after day. this has been extrapolated to any person who exercises but with no evidence I could find - and I looked hard.
t®ibal©hief - MemberForget the recovery drinks, it's just more calories, which you don't need, unless you're doing a high volume of training for performance gains.
prob is your right, i thought this was about wanting to loose weight...ha. in that case this thread has gone far into the depths of bs if all your after is feeling fitter on a bike. just improve your cardio and forget about your weight.
beware all the marketing bullshit from sports nutrition companies. as an example, i lost a magazine £60k of advertising from one company when i wrote an honest review of one of their products. the claim was that it was 60% more effective than water. which means what? instead of riding at 10mph you can ride at 16mph? or 160 miles instead of 100? no, what it meant (going on memory here) was that in a study, riders who rode for 2 hours at 60% Vo2, which is quite low, sprinted for 60% longer after using the sports drink in a series of sprints, ie ,16 seconds instead of 10 seconds. quite how important this ability is is beyond me....
one guy i coached bought some protein capsules, he'd have needed 300 a day to give just half his daily requirement...
i have nothing to sell here, just trying to give best advice, and really not upset if you want to spend hours in your fat burning zone, what ever the fk that is...
[url= http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18163180 ]null[/url]
Molgrips - maybe you need to read up some real science on this rather than the crap pseudo science from supplement manufacturers.
Got some citations then?
Try these about post-exercise carbs (recovery drink), from the first page of a google search for 'post exercise carbohydrate'
http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/timing.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18163180
There's another study on nih that states that 4:1 protein mix doesn't do any better than carbs, but that's always been under debate; I'm not saying 4:1 is anything special - carbs is what's important. I drink Torq recovery because on me it works significantly better than any of the other drinks. If I can't get that, I usually neck a can of coke, which also works quite well. Have you actually tried any of this stuff?
Its really simple but you won't accept it - if you are exercising and not loosing weight you are taking in too many calories
Are you f*cking blind? I have said at least a couple of times on this thread that the basis of weight loss (as anyone knows) is a negative energy balance. However that's a bit of a pointless thing to bang on about since it managing your energy expenditure, intake and your training goals is actually a lot more complicated. Can you confirm that you've read and understood this statement please? Clearly I am not trying to refute your unhelpfully simplistic statement, just pointing point that it is unhelpfully oversimplistic!
Fair play TC, after getting suckered into this thread I can wholeheartedly empathise with you.
Thing is, I am a scientist, and I am trying to understand the science and apply it to my cycling. I don't think there's a magic fat burning zone, or that magic pills will make me better.
As for HIIT, I'm interested of course - but why does it work?
. I drink Torq recovery because on me it works significantly better than any of the other drinks. If I can't get that, I usually neck a can of coke, which also works quite well. Have you actually tried any of this stuff?
Coke works as well as torq recovery. Well that shows how well torq works then if acan of coke works as well. 7 teaspoonfuls of sugar in a can of coke IIRC
Thing is, I am a scientist, and I am trying to understand the science and apply it to my cycling. I don't think there's a magic fat burning zone, or that magic pills will make me better.
But you persist in taking in carb drinks, recovery drinks and coke - all sources large amounts of empty calories with a poor evidence base.
Phew, where's the last 30 minutes gone? I've been informed, entertained...and confused. Oh well, at leasr I've eaten nothing in that time and my body must have used about 50 cal so I've got myself a negative energy balance. Rock on!
well there are magic pills if your that bothered?
But you persist in taking in carb drinks, recovery drinks and coke - all sources large amounts of empty calories.
which is what is required to quickly replenish your muscles energy stores and stop them becoming fatigued which I acknowledge is not necessarily good for losing weight but if you want to exercise regularly at fairly intense levels is required.
In other words if your exercising to lose weight and increase strength/fitness its a difficult balancing act to loose weight and not feel fatigued.
Coke works as well as torq recovery
Is that what I said? Here, let me help you out:
I drink Torq recovery because on me it works significantly better than any of the other drinks
Why on God's earth would I pay a lot of money for something that I actually believed was only as good as coke? You are borderline insulting me by implying I am grossly stupid. I buy Torq because it works better than anything else I've tried. Explicit enough for you?
But you persist in taking in carb drinks, recovery drinks and coke - all sources large amounts of empty calories with a poor evidence base.
Did you read the links I posted?
Btw I've not seen you cite anything.
Molgrips just carry on as you are doing then. Don't be suprised that you are not losing weight.
Have you read those two citations? The first is poor science and poorly written at best. Most of the references do not come up on the net as they are two old, some of them are from very obscure journals of little validity, the ones that I can find are nothing to do with carb drinks or recovery drinks. Its most quoted source is this http://www.humankinetics.com/
molgrips I drink Torq recovery because on me it works significantly better than any of the other drinks. If I can't get that, [b]I usually neck a can of coke, which also works quite well[/b].
so actually any old sugar after exercise "works quite well"
EDIT - now here I am guessing about your diet but I bet you have taken insufficinet long acting carbs before your exercise, because of all the short acting carb drink you have taken you have had a huge insulin spike so you have a blood sugaer drop after exercise leading to the cravings for suger.
Try some long acting carbs instead before and during the exercise - sounds to me like a wildly fluctuating blood sugar level from all the short acting carbs. Might well not be right however but it must be worth a try.
so actually any old sugar after exercise "works quite well"
That's what I said, yes, since sugar is carbs. That's what I've always said and have said loads of times on this thread. However Torq works better for me. Get that?
Molgrips just carry on as you are doing then. Don't be suprised that you are not losing weight.
When I learned up on this stuff was when I lost 8kg in 4 months and had my best ever season, turning from a fat weekender into a racer.
[url= http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/2009/03000/Nutrition_and_Athletic_Performance.27.aspx ]http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/2009/03000/Nutrition_and_Athletic_Performance.27.aspx[/url]
Read this if you want, explains it all quite clearly but feel free to twist it to get your point across as you see fit.
POSITION STATEMENTIt is the position of the American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, and the American College of Sports Medicine that physical activity, athletic performance, and recovery from exercise are enhanced by optimal nutrition. These organizations recommend appropriate selection of food and fluids, timing of intake, and supplement choices for optimal health and exercise performance.
KEY POINTSThe following key points summarize the current energy, nutrient, and fluid recommendations for [b]active adults and competitive athletes[/b]. These general recommendations can be adjusted by sports nutrition experts to accommodate the unique concerns of individual athletes regarding health, sports, nutrient needs, food preferences, and body weight and body composition goals.
Athletes need to consume adequate energy during periods of high-intensity and/or long-duration training to maintain body weight and health and maximize training effects. Low energy intakes can result in loss of muscle mass; menstrual dysfunction; loss of or failure to gain bone density; an increased risk of fatigue, injury, and illness; and a prolonged recovery process.
Body weight and composition should not be used as the sole criterion for participation in sports; daily weigh-ins are discouraged. Optimal body fat levels depend on the sex, age, and heredity of the athlete and may be sport-specific. Body fat assessment techniques have inherent variability and limitations. Preferably, weight loss (fat loss) should take place during the off-season or begin before the competitive season and involve a qualified sports dietitian.
Carbohydrate recommendations for athletes range from 6 to 10 g·kg-1 body weight·d-1 (2.7-4.5 g·lb-1 body weight·d-1). Carbohydrates maintain blood glucose levels during exercise and replace muscle glycogen. The amount required depends on the athlete's total daily energy expenditure, type of sport, sex, and environmental conditions. * Protein recommendations for endurance and strength-trained athletes range from 1.2 to 1.7 g·kg-1 body weight·d-1 (0.5-0.8 g·lb-1 body weight·d-1). These recommended protein intakes can generally be met through diet alone, without the use of protein or amino acid supplements. Energy intake sufficient to maintain body weight is necessary for optimal protein use and performance.
Fat intake should range from 20% to 35% of total energy intake. Consuming ?20% of energy from fat does not benefit performance. Fat, which is a source of energy, fat-soluble vitamins, and essential fatty acids, is important in the diets of athletes. High-fat diets are not recommended for athletes. * Athletes who restrict energy intake or use severe weight-loss practices, eliminate one or more food groups from their diet, or consume high- or low-carbohydrate diets of low micronutrient density are at greatest risk of micronutrient deficiencies. Athletes should consume diets that provide at least the recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for all micronutrients.
Dehydration (water deficit in excess of 2-3% body mass) decreases exercise performance; thus, adequate fluid intake before, during, and after exercise is important for health and optimal performance. The goal of drinking is to prevent dehydration from occurring during exercise and individuals should not drink in excess of sweating rate. After exercise, approximately 16-24 oz (450-675 mL) of fluid for every pound (0.5 kg) of body weight lost during exercise.
Before exercise, a meal or snack should provide sufficient fluid to maintain hydration, be relatively low in fat and fiber to facilitate gastric emptying and minimize gastrointestinal distress, be relatively high in carbohydrate to maximize maintenance of blood glucose, be moderate in protein, be composed of familiar foods, and be well tolerated by the athlete.
During exercise, primary goals for nutrient consumption are to replace fluid losses and provide carbohydrates (approximately 30-60 g·h-1) for maintenance of blood glucose levels. These nutrition guidelines are especially important for endurance events lasting longer than an hour when the athlete has not consumed adequate food or fluid before exercise or when the athlete is exercising in an extreme environment (heat, cold, or high altitude).
[b]After exercise, dietary goals are to provide adequate fluids, electrolytes, energy, and carbohydrates to replace muscle glycogen and ensure rapid recovery. A carbohydrate intake of approximately 1.0-1.5 g·kg-1 body weight (0.5-0.7 g·lb-1) during the first 30 min and again every 2 h for 4-6 h will be adequate to replace glycogen stores. Protein consumed after exercise will provide amino acids for building and repair of muscle tissue. [/b]
In general, no vitamin and mineral supplements are required if an athlete is consuming adequate energy from a variety of foods to maintain body weight. Supplementation recommendations unrelated to exercise, such as folic acid for women of childbearing potential, should be followed. A multivitamin/mineral supplement may be appropriate if an athlete is dieting, habitually eliminating foods or food groups, is ill or recovering from injury, or has a specific micronutrient deficiency. Single-nutrient supplements may be appropriate for a specific medical or nutritional reason (e.g., iron supplements to correct iron deficiency anemia).
[url= http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12235033?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed ]This is also interesting[/url] since it suggests that protein and carbs may be more effective than carbs alone. Journal of Applied Physiology from 2002.
"These results suggest that a CHO-Pro supplement is more effective for the rapid replenishment of muscle glycogen after exercise than a CHO supplement of equal CHO or caloric content."
Not a good source?
Nice post rs.
Low energy intakes can result in loss of muscle mass; menstrual dysfunction; loss of or failure to gain bone density; an increased risk of fatigue, injury, and illness; and a prolonged recovery process.
Or just MTFU as STW wisdom would have it 🙄
Nice one RS
Seems actually quite reasonable and moderate Not advocating any supplements nor any snake oil - just a normal sort of diet making sure you get enough carbs. with some sensible quantifying of amounts
It says what I've been saying TJ...
Here
During exercise, primary goals for nutrient consumption are to replace fluid losses and provide carbohydrates (approximately 30-60 g·h-1) for maintenance of blood glucose levels
And here:
After exercise, dietary goals are to provide adequate fluids, electrolytes, energy, and carbohydrates to replace muscle glycogen and ensure rapid recovery
You're a weird bloke sometimes, TJ.
My take on the above quoted stuff is that in order to maintain fitness and lose weight you do need the carbs/protein after exercise to prevent fatigue but the amount is entirely related to body weight and not the amount of exercise, therefore it kind of is just a case of moving more so that you do enough extra work to offset what you know you will take on post exercise.
Still undecided on the high intensity v's low intensity stuff, I think if you can do the high intensity stuff without feeling knackered thats the way forward, however if your not that fit in the first place you have to slowly build up the intensity.
For HIIT to work do you have to do the high intensity in succession? I am 35 and a hiit calculator on the web says that I should be aiming at:
Min for HIIT is: 166.5 BPM
and Active Rest Intervals = 120.25.
Now I know when I am biking the top figure 166.5 is when I am pushing myself teeny a bit and 120.25 is when I am biking steady with next to no effort. A big climb would be 175+. Now my thinking is the nature of where I ride is short but steep hills. So my question is what is HIIT like done over 5/6 hour periods. For instance a normal mountain bike ride.
I had a look at the Food Focus web site. The food calculator made me laugh. Everything food item is a ready meal.
Ok molgrips - this all went on a long way from my original point which was that you have to have a negative energy balance to lose weight. I have not disputed what you quote in your last post at all.
However I suspect you are consuming too many short acting carbs and too much sugar thus upsetting your insulin metabolism and that you will not lose weight unless you reduce your carb intake. All that suger and the insulin spikes is making you hungry. Oats and other starches would reduce your hunger for the same amount of carbs
Have a reread of tribalcheifs posts seeing as you give no credence to anything I say
over 5/6 hours it isn't HIIT - won't give the same physiological response
forget about heart rates for HIIT, by the time your heart gets out of bed and gets it's pants on the interval is over - max effort, some pacing for 1-2 min efforts
So one long bike ride at the weekend and then 4 20min sessions of sprinting and jogging in the park. Sounds doable with two kids.... Instead of 20 mins sitting at the computer.
Just find it hard not to eat too much ice cream, though I am not that bothered about getting thinner more about getting a bit fitter.
geda - yeah, and after a while you'll lose a load of fat and all interest in ice cream
t®ibal©hief - Member
OK, you're right Molgrips, what would I know, what with you working in IT and me having earned a living lecturing exercise physiology, presenting at fitness conventions and coaching people who won pretty major titles in quite a few sports...
On a lighter note, I think molgrips working in IT might know more about [url= http://www.hiit.fi/ ]HIIT[/url] than TribalChief 😀
All that suger and the insulin spikes is making you hungry. Oats and other starches would reduce your hunger for the same amount of carbs
Well, again as I understand it, that stuff about insulin spikes is valid when you are at rest. When you're exercising it works differently... which is why athletes use maltodextrin powder which has a very high GI.. Am I right tc? Oats and medium GI stuff takes more energy to digest, and [b]whilst exercising[/b] you need all your energy to your muscles...
No I love ice cream. I think it was something about growing up on a farm with a jersey cow. Cream and cornflakes for breakfast everyday. I thought cold milk was weird when I first went to school.
Thanks for the advice anyway. I have been doing intense sessions of wheelie, manual and bunnyhop practise in the park but could do with doing some running as well.
So where does cake fit into all of this?
Oats and medium GI stuff takes more energy to digest
no, it's just slower release due to the physical structure - you get the same amount of calories, moreover, not to labour the point, a large intake of low GI starch will result in the same (or bigger) boost in blood sugar as a small amount of high GI sugar 🙂 Remember, even pasta has a GI of 30, so it digests at 1/3rd of the rate of pure glucose, so 3 times as much - which would be far easier to eat - would result in the same intake rate of glucose.
Join Weight Watchers and stick to it. Job done.
Molgrips don't know if this will helps or hinders your point but it works for me.
When I was working to lose weight I restricted my 'calories in' all the time except the night before, during and immediately after my big w/e ride.
When I did that, coupled with a pretty strict diet through the week and shorter exercise session I made great progress (5 stone in around 18 months). I had the energy to exercise and work hard enough to make significant progress.
If I restricted the food in and around those big sessions I was a wreck (for days). Whether that was real or in my head is largely immaterial
Taz, that makes sense but I'm training 4 or 5 times a week usually... I kind of do what you said, but supplementing using carb and recovery drinks rather than big meals.
It's not as simple as burning more calories than you take in, as if you drop your calorie intake too low when doing a lot of exercise it has been shown to be counter-productive, and the weight loss can stop, due to slowing down the metabolism.
gazza100 - Member
Join Weight Watchers and stick to it. Job done.
[i]That[/i] is precisely what I don't understand! By counting my calories the way I do, I was trying to effectively create my own weigh****chers. But it clearly doesn't work as simply as that. Hence my experience.
For the all the back-and-forth that has been going on on this thread, it is clear that some posters still haven't read what I first wrote. It CAN'T be as simple as calories in/calories out, as I have just spent five weeks taking in fewer calories than I have been burning, and after 5 kgs, nothing has happened.
Since I first posted, I have upped my intensity in different ways, though, so we will see what happens over the next few weeks.
Saxon Rider
When I lost a lot of weight I hit several 'plateau's'. My only advice is don't be a slave to the scales and remember as you get fitter you will generally burn fewer calories doing your daily stuff.
Keep watching what you eat, slowly up your volume & / or intensity of exercise and try to be consistent. Slow & steady progress is definitely the best way to go for the long term.
For me mixing my exercise regime up (MTB, bike commute, running, swimming, weights, touch rughy, squash) worked best. Mainly due to keeping me mentally fresh & keen to keep going.
It's not as simple as burning more calories than you take in, as if you drop your calorie intake too low when doing a lot of exercise it has been shown to be counter-productive, and the weight loss can stop, due to slowing down the metabolism.
It might alter the efficiency and physical symptoms that you see, but it won't stop the weight loss, otherwise no-one would ever starve to death 😉 You could try telling that theory to the concentration-camp veterans, they were really committed to the lie of severe weight loss while staved and made to exercise 😉
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as I have just spent five weeks taking in fewer calories than I have been burning
The thing is, you don't know how many calories you've been burning up. How've you been estimating it? Your body varies its metabolism, and will slow down thereby reducing your daily requirement. There are ways of estimating your basal metabolic rate (BMR), you can google them.
The oft-quoted figure of 2500 calories for men is a wild stab in the dark.
round and round in circles.
if you have really truly been taking in fewer calories than you have been burning for the last five weeks.............
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It's not as simple as burning more calories than you take in, as if you drop your calorie intake too low when doing a lot of exercise it has been shown to be counter-productive, and the weight loss can stop, due to slowing down the metabolism.
It might alter the efficiency and physical symptoms that you see, but it won't stop the weight loss, otherwise no-one would ever starve to death You could try telling that theory to the concentration-camp veterans, they were really committed to the lie of severe weight loss while staved and made to exercise
The show I saw it on was a weight loss show and the people had dropped their calorie intake to around 600 calories a day, thinking that the less they take in the less they then have to burn off, but their weight loss plateaued. The trainer told them that because they were working out around 6 hours a day, they needed to take in at least 2000 calories a day to keep their metabolism working properly.
I'm only passing on what I heard, and it depends on circumstances, but its things like this that show it isnt as simple as often made out.
I wouldn't be able to get out of bed with 600 calories a day! did someone say donuts?
I was in the same position and couldnt lose the weight. Hit 15 stone 10 and decided to join. They work out how many points you need by means of a simple calculation using age, height and weight. Foods (except certain veg) and drinks are awarded a points value for a given portion and you eat what you want until you reach your daily points allowance.
Lost a stone in 6 weeks and my eating habits have changed. If i want a sweet or a takeaway, then i have it and deduct it from my points allowance. If I exceed my daily allowance then I use less for the rest of the week so it balances out.
molgrips - MemberTaz, that makes sense but I'm training 4 or 5 times a week usually... I kind of do what you said, but supplementing using carb and recovery drinks rather than big meals.
Have you stopped to work out how much sugar you are having a week? If you are having a couple of litres of maltodexrtrin based energy drinks and a litre of maltodextrin based recovery drink you could be getting thru more than half a kilo of sugar a week - maybe even a kilo
Blimey look at all this lot...
Long story short, I exercise too much and don't eat enough (mostly, although I'm working on it) I run maybe 30-40km a week, sometimes more, it's hard to tell, as now I'm running 'hours' rather than distances, and will regularly do 90km off road or 125k on road as well. My calorie intake according to my log over the last 7 days is 1700 give or take. Trust me, the weight falls off..
nickc - same problem here, i'm doing upwards of 25hrs a week of training at the mo with some big weeks where its 30+. I have 3 meal drinks a day as well as meals, between meal meals and snacks a plenty. Nuts, tuna, cold baked tatties etc to munch on. Can barely keep my weight on. Yes its a lot of training (and its running, trekking, kayaking and biking road/mtb). The occasional creme egg falls in and i drink beer 2 nights a week 🙂
for me, i cut out sugar about 6mths into when i started biking and the weight dropped off.....so much to the point friends thought i had an eating disorder!
the biking element helped me to tone up at the end of the day - i only get a chance to do any once every other week.
so the key is healthy eating (treats of junk food now and again!), a bit of exercise and patience 😉
I agree with the last few posts and is basically the same as Im doing although I write down everything I eat. Being a driving instructor doesnt help either because the hours dont leave that much time for training or allow set meal times !!!
Oh yeah and I don't drink.
[i]Oh yeah and I don't drink. [/i]
Thats cheating! 🙂
TJ, why should I believe you and not qualified and experienced sports fitness professionals?
The 'sugar' (actually maltodextrin, but ok) I consume is to replace the carbs I use whilst training. I usually take slighly less than the typical amount, so that'd be say three scoops in an hour. This is about 280 calories. If I am exercising hard then I might be using up 700 calories an hour, so you see there is a negative energy balance. Of course, if I didn't take the carbs I'd be needing to eat more to keep up the training (from practical experience).
Let me ask you something TJ - have you ever tried training for performance, rather than just riding for pleasure?
molgrips, for performance, yes these things can help, but I have a mouth full of fillings from years of using sports drinks in the early 90's when the link with dental health hadn't been made.... don't forget your toothbrush
also from a cost point of view, 50/50 water and orange juice with a pinch of salt and you have something as effective as a commercial sports drink.
Molgrips - just think how much sugar you are consuming. Maltodextrin is a mix of sugars.
How much in total a week? How big are these scoops?
Yes if you didn't take all that sugar you would need to eat more - but a balanced diet is much better for you.
You wonder why you don't lose weight.
TJ you are really getting on my tits now. You seem completely unable to process what I am saying.
When you eat pure carbs whilst riding, you are just replacing the energy you use at a point where it goes straight to your muscles as fast as possible. When you come home and stuff your face, you are also getting extra fat which you don't need, and it'll be harder to digest which means you won't get the carbs to your muscles for an hour or two.
Yes if you didn't take all that sugar you would need to eat more
So where does the weight loss come into it then?
And I do lose weight when training. I have managed f*ck all training this year due to lifestyle problems, which is why I am not losing weight currently.
Hey, TC's recommendation also has a lot of sugar in it - why don't you tell him he's wrong too?
Listen - I'm begging you. Please please please just LISTEN to what I am saying! Why do you just ignore everything I have to say? I mean come on. Are you the world's expert? Have you got huge experience in training nutrition? Where does your body of information come from? (please note I am not claiming to be an expert, but I have read aroudn the subject a fair bit and been coached). You're not even refuting my points, you are just telling me that sugar is bad. I'm not even drinking sugar!
TC - yep.. althogh I buy plan unflavoured maltodextrin powder at something like £15 for 5kg which works out at 22p/litre.. I find it hard to drink watered down OJ for some reason too.