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Next Best Thing, obvs 😉
docrobster
Free MemberI cannot compute how people will stop and get out of their vehicle, thus costing them time, because someone has (in their eyes) caused them a few seconds delay…
Yes I've had the same thought when people have a conflict with another car at a merge-in-turn. They get in front then start brake testing, or crawling along at 2mph to try and annoy the other person.
I reckon they're basically drudgeons running 24/7 on the reptilian part of the brain that deals with fighting, fleeing, feeding and fu...ing. No higher level thought is occurring.
Could this aggression actually be down to the British race ? I have cycled regularly for the past 20 years in France and Spain,and apart from the odd occasion in these countries,UK drivers really are the most aggressive and angry. Doesn’t mean the roads here are the most dangerous though.
Have to say after a long time riding/living in Spain I've never seen behaviour like some of the stuff on this thread - the odd close pass which I put down to crap driving, the ocassional beep from drivers haven't realised riding two-abreast is legal, but nothing I would call agressive. I've not tried commuting by bike in central Madrid, though...
I've ridden in a tourist group in central Madrid. Nothing egregious from drivers in 2 to 3 hours of bimbling around. There are lots of protected cycle lanes on road and many through parks or pedestrian areas which helps as does the blanket 20kph limits and the main roads being underground.
Could this aggression actually be down to the British race ?
No, it's an idiot thing, not a British thing. Remember this a is a cycling forum, we notice this stuff and we're all primed for it. The vast vast majority of drivers are absolutely fine IME
There are lots of protected cycle lanes on road and many through parks or pedestrian areas which helps as does the blanket 20kph limits and the main roads being underground.
Not sure exactly where you were riding, but there aren't blanket 20kph limits on the bigger roads, and most of them aren't underground... (I'm guessing you were in the touristy centre, which is further south from most of the main office area).
I'm sure we've all been there at one time or another.
My last incident involved a driver jumping out of his van with a rounders bat.
We then had a very unsightly roll around on the floor together...
Mate had a youth pull a knife on him. Said mate took it off him and explained how he shouldn't go round pulling knives on people.
Thankfully I now live in a different area and motorists in general seem a lot more thoughtful.
Bloody magnet fisherfolk. The next thing to vex cyclists.
I cannot compute how people will stop and get out of their vehicle, thus costing them time, because someone has (in their eyes) caused them a few seconds delay…
Reminds me of this thread - https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/nearly-had-a-road-rage-incident/
Bloody magnet fisherfolk. The next thing to vex cyclists.
Well, it was genuine at least
https://twitter.com/marplewebsite/status/1386592925845446656
Hiya,
Noticed an increase in aggression mountain biking. One guy this weekend on a very narrow country lane tried to push me to one side with his car. Told him to cluck off and got off my bike he just left the scene. I've decided that I'll now have a camera on whilst riding on the road because it is getting a little mad out there. One note on this it is a small minority and I've noticed that the aggression seems more evident in the afternoon than the mornings to I'm getting up extra early to avoid the grumpies and brexit supporters 😉
JeZ
@mogrim It was the centre (km 0 was passed). Going up the road against the flow of traffic (4 or more lanes) was an experience.
French neighbours, and very keen cyclists are certain our roads are safer than back home. Well I was surprised. (Normandy for those that are interested)
Do we think that more cyclists on the road in general will make matters better or worse?
I ride rurally and more cyclists seem to make it worse. Impatient driver behind first cyclist, passes too close to squeeze by only to find another 3 cyclists further ahead so overtakes those on a blind bend only to find another 2 cyclists 500m up the road and so on. The anger and bad driving just seems to build up.
certain our roads are safer than back home. Well I was surprised. (Normandy for those that are interested)
Maybe in the east near the bigger towns I guess, but my experience road riding in rural west normandy over a few years was wonderful. Hardly any traffic and when there was, it was polite and respectful.
I simply got off the bike and threw it at him. He was not expecting this and took a BMX to the chest and chin. He promptly fell on his fat arse and looked very shocked. I picked up the bike, karate chopped his wing mirror off for good measure and proceeded down a snicket before he could come to his senses.
Cool story bro.
A few weeks ago I wrote about an altercation I had with an extremely aggressive bus driver. I followed up and eventually found out who the operating company was (it was a London red double decker). After an email exchange with the MD I had confirmation that the driver in question was fired. I’ve never previously had to resort to complaining but, in this instance, if I’d not stopped cycling I would have been run over so I felt that the appropriate outcome happened.
My commute rides takes in trails and road, I usually spend the trail bits thinking about the conduct of drivers I have encountered.
I am fairly convinced that a lot of drivers are scared of driving and the responsibility of a car. Does the responsibility of making snap decisions if there is something unusual on the road, like a bike or a roundabout and this make folks act irrationally due to stress? Are some drivers scared of being the one to wait behind a bike and be perceived to hold up other drivers, so do silly things to avoid it?
Roundabouts seem to bring out the worst in drivers, even worse behaviour if they see a cyclist.
And then there are just the angry 'Bloody Cyclists' lot...
Had to lock up and nearly crashed this morning due to car overtaking and then hitting the brakes, luckily I have video and will send to police.
joeegg
Could this aggression actually be down to the British race ? I have cycled regularly for the past 20 years in France and Spain,and apart from the odd occasion in these countries,UK drivers really are the most aggressive and angry. Doesn’t mean the roads here are the most dangerous though.
I don't think its specifically genetic but I do think a lot has to do with the British media and what sells papers or now clicks.
A great deal of British media (in wider sense) is deliberately divisive and advertising around articles with the most divisive threads are worth more than those where people agree.
The idea of a balanced article is anathema .. when getting 2 groups hurling insults at each other is worth more money. Articles are written specifically with a thin veneer aimed at getting 2 opposing factions to generate comments, clicks and revenue...
French neighbours, and very keen cyclists are certain our roads are safer than back home. Well I was surprised.
I'm not, a lot of those drivers will be British in French registered cars rushing from holiday home to the next attraction/job.
The only time I had a poor overtake attempt in rural Catalonia was by a French registered car with an older couple on board. This was a try to pass on the downhill approach to a left handed hairpin with me doing the thick end of 60kph. Definitely not French attempting that.
Once you're away from the tourist hot-spots rural France has some of the better drivers around cyclists. Nothing would encourage me to ride in the Dordogne or Normandy as there are too many Brits with holiday homes and poor driving habits.
Rural France is deserted. I've been on bike rides in Rural France and not see another car for hours on end. You have no escape from traffic anywhere in the UK. Rural French villages are like ghost towns. You can't compare. Similar population to the UK but 5 times the size. cars can pass cyclists with ease and a much more laid back way about things. Not comparing apples with apples at all. Ride into a busy French town at rush hour and you see all the same behaviours from French drivers as UK drivers. My experience anyway. Have never been so close to death so many times on one road than negotiating a French town during rush hour.
Are some drivers scared of being the one to wait behind a bike and be perceived to hold up other drivers, so do silly things to avoid it?
I think that is a real factor, yes.
You have no escape from traffic anywhere in the UK. Rural French villages are like ghost towns.
Our family in-joke is "La France profonde, c'est fermé"
Are some drivers scared of being the one to wait behind a bike and be perceived to hold up other drivers, so do silly things to avoid it?
Some, certainly. But just as many would barge past even without a queue of traffic behind.
You have no escape from traffic anywhere in the UK. Rural French villages are like ghost towns. You can’t compare. Similar population to the UK but 5 times the size.
Erm similar population yes, 5 times the size no.
UK = 242,495 km2
Metropolitan France = 551,695 km2
I think dmcnicol has a point - I personally feel myself relaxing more when driving in a 20mph zone because hey, guess what, cars are more controllable at lower speeds. More 20 zones pls!
I always say "someone else shook the coke can, you're just there when the lid got opened", or tut to myself and go, "What *is* their problem. Dearie me!".
It's also a bit of a power struggle/testosterone thing. You hear of old ladies falling victim to carelessness but never to road rage type stuff.
I would, therefore, recommend donning a long grey wig and shoving cosmetic padding down cycling shorts - semi seriously....! - aggressive drivers feel like the Big Man having a fight with a "bloody cyclist" MAMIL but shouting at a little old lady that their Mum might go to aquarobics with is something v few have the stomach for.
Are some drivers scared of being the one to wait behind a bike and be perceived to hold up other drivers, so do silly things to avoid it?
Absolutely this is the case, no doubt. I honestly think the vast majority of drivers just want to get from A to B without killing anyone irrespective of what they think about cycling or cyclists but as someone else has mentioned the constant click-bait media culture-war ratchets up the tension and people will feel like the roads are a battle ground whether they really want to or not.
"or tut to myself and go, “What *is* their problem. Dearie me!”.
"It’s also a bit of a power struggle/testosterone thing. You hear of old ladies falling victim to carelessness but never to road rage type stuff."
Agree with both of these
I get that immediate anger, but let it fizzle almost immediately, and just remind myself / laugh to myself at what a loser they are, and how shit their existence must be. Same thing while driving. Someone cuts you up. Just back off. Why you would want to interact at all with such an awful breed.
"....people will feel like the roads are a battle ground whether they really want to or not."
Agree. Most of our population really (really) can't think for themselves. The second something slightly out of the ordinary (ordinary = 50mph, out of the ordinary = a slower moving obstacle in front of them) comes they get a stress response
You can see it from how clinically [a lot of] people live their lives. These weird new build houses where it's always 23 degrees, makeup all over their faces, couldn't possibly walk 3 minutes to the shop to buy their plastic food.
More 20 zones pls!
Not necessarily the solution unfortunately as an awful lot of motorists pay no attention whatsoever to this speed limit. I live in a village which is 20mph all the way through and have been overtaken (whilst I was driving) as I was only doing 20mph. Council van drivers are horrendous for this, though I fear this is due to workloads and targets for them imposed. Also doesn't help when police cars/vans with no blues/twos plough through way above the limit. The worst culprits far and away however are 'crossover' vehicle type drivers - both male and female - who see the limits and speed bumps as non-existant. Rant over, for now.
The Way of Ogmios
Is the only way.
Interesting reading. I've been brooding on an incident from a week ago that ended up with a confrontation with a truck driver, who used certain terms and claimed he'd used the same to a cyclist who was killed by a driver not too long ago.
It's worth remembering that there are a lot of cameras around now, violence will likely be caught on camera and won't leave any party looking good.
Ogmios is the guru of the roads. After watching that there is no other way.