[Closed] We earn £190k a year. Do we need to sell our flat to afford private school fees?

I know quite a few people like them. My wife has friends who are looking to move to a bigger place (2 kids growing up needing more space), who are moaning that they can't find anything within their budget, in the area they want to live in (they have around £750,000, and want to live in one of London's most fashionable areas). I can't even engage with idiots like that. They simply cannot appreciate that they are in an incredibly privileged position relative to 99% of the population, and really do think they are somehow 'entitled'.

a 725k home in SW London is pretty average

It's not. Maybe 'average' for a very nice home in a very nice area, but certainly not 'average' for SW London. If people weren't so blinkered and felt so entitled, they would realise they could buy a bloody nice home in a not so fashionable area, for a lot less. The equivalent to our home in an area just a mile away from us is probably about £150,000-200,000 more. Simply because it has a different (more desirable) postcode, and some of the local residents are 'celebrities'. So what? What else do you get for your money? Nothing.

You are a Tory cabinet member, and i claim my £5 in food vouchers

Sorry binners, they don't do food vouchers any more, instead you're being moved to a poor house....

When did the wealthiest 1% become middle class?

yeah i'm always surprised by what the Mail / DT will try to define as 'middle class'...

but then...

the idea of 'class' in this country is in such a messed up state these days.

Moan about a situation that any reasonably intelligent person could resolve.

Perhaps you could quote the bit in the article where they moan about their situation?

[quote=ransos spake unto the masses, saying]What exactly have they done wrong other than not being very good at planning their finances?
Moan about a situation that any reasonably intelligent person could resolve.

Are they actually moaning, though, or just trying to find out if they can achieve their goals? They seem well off to us, but probably we seem well off to a lot of people who would sneer at us complaining about the price of Howies shirts and Chris King headsets.

The average salary in the UK is about 25k. It takes something of a lack of awareness (to say the least), when earning a household income of 8 times that, to go into the national press whining that its just, like SOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT FAIR!!! 😥

I bet they've loads of empathy towards people who really are struggling

But it's interesting that it's probably how the people in the OP see themselves.

To be fair if you work in the City, you're surrounded by people who would consider their salary pocket change. My BIL is a CFO in the City and when I socialise with his friends in Wimbledon it is a different world completely.

190k a year, poor buggers, not sure how they survive on that.

Are they actually moaning, though, or just trying to find out if they can achieve their goals? They seem well off to us, but probably we seem well off to a lot of people who would sneer at us complaining about the price of Howies shirts and Chris King headsets.

Chris King headsets are very expensive. I can't afford to buy them for me and my daughter (after all, she should have the same experience as me) and buy all the other things I would like. Do I a)buy something cheaper or b)put it on the credit card and whinge to the Telegraph that the sheer cost of cycling in Britain has left me financially broken?

190k a year, poor buggers, not sure how they survive on that.

They can't, that's the tragedy.

To be fair if you work in the City, you're surrounded by people who would consider their salary pocket change.

That was my point. My wife once worked for one of the big four accountancy firms, and spent an evening in the company of a Partner complaining about the cost of a new staircase in her home. The Partner lacked the self-awareness to realise that the staircase cost more than all of the other people at the table earned in a year.

If poor people stuck to reading The Sun and not The Telegraph then there wouldn't be a problem here.

The issue isn't the content of the article but the fact that the lower classes are reading a broadsheet newspaper 😉

Well, thinking that you have to send your kids to private school, for starters. So everyone who hasn't done this hasn't done right by their children?

Not what I said. I said [b]they[/b] want to do right by their children.

As said they have very poor financial acumen. That doesn't make them any more stupid than the folk who go to payday lenders. Once again the sanctimony on here never fails to surprise me, that you can glean so much about these people from such a piece of poorly written bollocks with little to no real info about their financial situation speaks volumes about your own prejudices.

And binners, no, not even close, just not a sanctimonious judgemental shit like most who feel its their duty to comment on other peoples lives and life choices.

As said they have very poor financial acumen.

Oh give over. Are you seriously suggesting that they got to those senior positions without having any budgetary skills?

As said they have very poor financial acumen. That doesn't make them any more stupid than the folk who go to payday lenders. Once again the sanctimony on here never fails to surprise me, that you can glean so much about these people from such a piece of poorly written bollocks with little to no real info about their financial situation speaks volumes about your own prejudices.

well said.

They work hard, earn good money and are rubbish at planning their finances. That is not enough of a reason to hate them.

a 725k home in SW London is pretty average

It's not. Maybe 'average' for a very nice home in a very nice area

Well I'm going by my old house which was a 2 bed terrace in a decent but not fab area which is now worth rather more than £725k - it is in zone 2 though so gets a premium for that.

As said they have very poor financial acumen. That doesn't make them any more stupid than the folk who go to payday lenders.

Because thats usually a choice the lower orders, frightful as they are, make through an informed decision, after reviewing the plethora of other options available to them, right?

You're coming across really well on the empathy, and in-touch-with-reality front yourself here. Do go on....

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They look like actors to me. I mean, who really dresses like that ?

Sell the flat?! Maybe if they sold the house and moved into the flat they could afford the school fees.

[quote=binners spake unto the masses, saying]The average salary in the UK is about 25k. It takes something of a lack of awareness (to say the least), when earning a household income of 8 times that, to go into the national press whining that its just, like SOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT FAIR!!!
I bet they've loads of empathy towards people who really are struggling

We must have read a different article. The one I read didn't say that at all.

They want to send their kids to private school but can't do it with their current financial arrangements. I want to buy a car but can't do it with my current financial arrangements. If someone at the DT would tell me how to manage it I'd be happy, but I'm not moaning about taking the bus.

Sell the flat?! Maybe if they sold the house and moved into the flat they could afford the school fees.

Gosh, you're not suggesting that they live within their means, are you? It's that kind of thinking that saw me buy a Hope headset rather than a Chris King. It will never do.

ransos - Member
What exactly have they done wrong other than not being very good at planning their finances?
Moan about a situation that any reasonably intelligent person could resolve.

Agrees with ransos..

As said they have very poor financial acumen.

...but are able to hold down jobs which bring in a combined total of £190,000 every year and are accruing equity from both a buy to let property and their own home, all whilst seemingly living the lifestyle that that they desire.

I would suggest that these two statements are mutually exclusive.

That doesn't make them any more stupid than the folk who go to payday lenders

It's a whole different kind of stupid.

Are you seriously suggesting that they got to those senior positions without having any budgetary skills?

Ironically I'd say yes. It's quite possible to be a senior well paid partner and not have to budget.

If you earn a shed load of money you don't necessarily have to budget. The consequences are far less than if you earn very little. (You may need to stop having a holiday rather than not having food for your children)

The article doesn't say they spend £5K a year on holidays - it's one of the "experts" saying that.

The couple still need their heads knocking together though - they should move to one of the many parts of London that have great primary and secondary schools, free up the education costs and either work less and spend more time with the kids or take up [s]simple cheap[/s] hobbies like mountain biking.

Ironically I'd say yes. It's quite possible to be a senior well paid partner and not have to budget.

You become a senior manager by progressing through more junior positions. I simply do not believe that they progressed in their careers without having to manage budgets.

Managing a budget at work and managing your own budget are different things.

Being able to and actually doing it aren't the same.

If you always spend less than you earn there is no need to budget.

Managing a budget at work and managing your own budget are different things.

Being able to and actually doing it aren't the same.

If you always spend less than you earn there is no need to budget.

I'm glad I earn a fraction of what they do, so I've never been in a position to balls up my personal finances.

We must have read a different article. The one I read didn't say that at all.

They want to send their kids to private school but can't do it with their current financial arrangements.

They could very easily do it. They just don't want too, as they don't see why thy should have to make any sacrifices.

Once again.... you're not seeing that as a sense of entitlement, no?

the sooner we tax buy to let out of existence the better, would we allow any other necessity of life to be speculated upon by "investors"

It's that kind of thinking that saw me buy a Hope headset rather than a Chris King.

I'm glad I earn a fraction of what they do, so I've never been in a position to balls up my personal finances.

Odd thing to say. As I'm sure you're perfectly aware, many people earning the same, and less, than you have ballsed up their personal finances.
I can't see how these people have done this, though.

There's a lot of single people on here, and childless couples, who probably manage to spend just about everything they earn, no matter how high their income.
When another mouth or two comes along, if they're not in the habit of budgeting then what's the harm in asking for a bit of advice? £25k a year on school fees is still a heck of a chunk out of their net income, and wouldn't it be sensible to plan how to save it with the least pain.

the sooner we tax buy to let out of existence the better,

the sooner we tax buy to let out of existence the better, would we allow any other necessity of life to be speculated upon by "investors"

The change in BTL tax relief for top-rate income tax payers is actually going to make it unworkable for a lot of people, including this couple.

They could very easily do it. They just don't want too, as they don't see why thy should have to make any sacrifices.

they're not saying this though, are they.
They're saying they want to minimise their personal sacrifices without sacrificing what they want for their kids. And I'm sure you do just the same.

grum - Member

Agreed. But I don't think anyone here is jealous of these people

I'm jealous of their money 😆 But not their lives.

But the pair are worried about becoming “financially broken” as the sheer cost of middle-class life in London means they are stretched to the brink. They spend everything they earn – and more.

I fail to see how they can buy a second house and rent it out, earn in the brackets they do, yet not manage their own finances. Tax returns alone must require a reasonable degree of acumen. Even saving all the paperwork for the accountant would require enough nous to say 'hang on, mores going out than coming in. Somethings up'. Perhaps an 8K card they can't clear right now from savings is a clue to them. There are some very very simple things they could do that would resolve this.

worried about becoming “financially broken”

An emotive term that frankly, compared to people using food banks or risking their lives to get to this country under lorries with nothing but the shirts on their backs or borrowing money for food from the likes of Wonga or loan sharks I'm struggling to think counts as a problem or even a worry.

Plus, as both were privately educated, I think it's a reasonable assumption they are going to inherit a reasonable sum. I am aware some people forego their Pilates classes or use supermarket diesel on occasion to afford to privately educate their children, but in general it's an indicator of wealth.

But to be honest I'm starting to think it's either completely made up and a colossal clickbait/trolling effort by the DT in which case fair play to them 🙂

the sooner we tax buy to let out of existence the better, would we allow any other necessity of life to be speculated upon by "investors"

Yes, investors speculate on everything from water and food to energy and pharmaceuticals - everything's for sale, it's just how we run the world. I'm not saying it's right and I'm not disagreeing with you on the principle of doing something about buy-to-let, but speculating on property isn't a special case in itself.

they're not saying this though, are they.

Yes. Thats exactly what they're saying.

They're saying they want to minimise their personal sacrifices without sacrificing what they want for their kids. And I'm sure you do just the same.

a) An expensive private education isn't a right (ask the 97% of the population who don't get one.)
b) It certainly isn't a right on top of your already extravagant lifestyle, without making any sacrifices.

Like I said... sense of entitlement

They're saying they want to minimise their personal sacrifices without sacrificing what they want for their kids. And I'm sure you do just the same.

As far as sacrifices go, it's analogous to buying a Hope headset instead of a Chris King.

I fail to see how they can buy a second house and rent it out, earn in the brackets they do, yet not manage their own finances. Tax returns alone must require a reasonable degree of acumen.

This, mostly.

You become a senior manager by progressing through more junior positions. I simply do not believe that they progressed in their careers without having to manage budgets.

At a combined income of 190k in those professions in London I'd say that neither of them were that senior. Both are probably fairly junior in fact.

I still don't get the ire - they have sought advice on how to maintain their current lifestyle and then fit in school fees. The answer is addressed in the article: earn more or spend less or create money by liquidating assets.

I don't get the anger bneing expressed other than people seeing a bigger income than their own and feeling overcome by a strong emotional response. Do you also run your keys down the side of expensive cars?

Be upset at social and financial inequality in general, yes, but don't come across as envious at an otherwise slightly naive family.

Their a consultant and solicitor I doubt they do, do much budget stuff at work.

They clearly do want to have their cake and eat and for they deserve a bit of abuse. Just sell the flat, and bingo most of their problems solved in one. Albeit if they don't rein in their finances then they'll burn through it pretty quickly.

I'd love to know how they burn their monthly budget, although I wonder if paying for fancy house re-decoration is eating into a lot of it.

They weren't complaining or asking for sympathy - just for financial advice, in the financial advice pages. This wasn't a Daily Hate middle-class whinge.

Newflash - there are people who earn more than all of us, and people of almost every income do have to take spending decisions. So I am not sure why the OP felt the need to post it.

I spend a bit of time in South West London now where my partner lives and am totally shocked at both the cost of property (725k does not buy you much at all) and the aspirational culture and educational arms race...

I'd love to see some heat taken out of the housing market, and a decent universal education system, and my kids have gone through the state system. It ain't going to happen.

Nothing to see here - move on...

I'm not sure it's 'entitlement', more 'expectation' binners.

They think 'we've got the house, the income, the cars like our freinds - they're sending their kids to private school so we should be able to but the numbers don't add up'.

If there's a social expectation you will be in a position to make certain 'lifestyle' choices you'll be surprised when they seem unachievable, despite an apparently healthy income.