If he doesn't want to go to Australia with you can I come instead?
Yes yes all the 1 million young people who are unemployed just lack a bit of get up and go - I bow to your expertise in this area.
I think you might be getting a little tired so not thinking as well as you normally do...you see there are some jobs and they'll go to those that apply for them - not those that don't. Not enough for all though I'm sure.
**** Hermanshake just got me in a nutshell. I enjoy care work, support work, getting a pretty good idea of what I enjoy doing (behavioral intervention/occupational therapy) but I'm still at home being a bum being a ****
& junkyard +1 - currently work 17hr shifts not doing much but I was bloody lucky & happy to get this job, only 3days a week @ 6ph, hopefully if I save I'll be able to afford a night out on my birthday. I went for a TA job at wilmslow high school, within a week it had 700+ applicants 200+ with phd's masters etc, go figure.
Mudshark bet your parents paid your tuition fees & first car.
Mudshark 1 mil+ unemployed 19-25! Any jobs go to those older, more experienced etc or any lower paid jobs go the young 'uns. You try getting a job aged 19/20 in a petrol station, shop, farm etc.
>Mudshark bet your parents paid your tuition fees & first car.
How much would you wager?
I worked at McDonalds whilst at college until I went to Uni, that paid for my 1st car and some more to help pay my way. My parents are not well off at all but I am I suppose.
McDonalds, and the like, are great places for those that don't have much in the way of academic achievements to get into work - not just employment but potentially a career.
the tough love idea is interesting because it seems the pertinant question here is tough for who? why would you only charge ten pounds a week, for example, and then let him get behind on even that? what does that mean? what does that constitute as an action? nothing! it's just a indicator of a vague awareness that you needed to do something. I am not even necessarily an advocate of this economic-reality idea of child rearing, but consistancy boundaries and discipline are vital! it sounds like you sleepwalk into these family dramas (there are two in this thread) that you talk about, and only vaguely wake up when it goes beyond fixing. I know that that isn't what people will think, and i know that many people get on without a-levels, for example. But in your care this child has passed up on the golden opportunity of education, that is a huge loss, even if it is only first time round. what were you doing?! snoozing, i'd suggest. I think it is you that is the problem here: wake up!
mudshark --a 'career' in mc donalds-- you say its a great place for one-- that can only be a troll attempt!
Junkyard - Member
Yes yes all the 1 million young people who are unemployed just lack a bit of get up and go
If you're in a group being chased by a lion, you dont need to outrun the lion, only the others in the group.
Confucius Stoner off to bed now.
>mudshark --a 'career' in mc donalds-- you say its a great place for one-- that can only be a troll attempt!
Do you know anything about McDonalds? Well obviously you don't. It is possible to become management from joining at the bottom with lots of training along the way. Once at that level you could switch to another company with the experience gained.
If you're in a group being chased by a lion, you dont need to outrun the lion, only the others in the group.
true but due to the high numbers of unemployed and under employed if you are young it is inevitable someone with more experience will apply for the job. You have little to no work experience, no real skills and not really sure what you want to do...who would a hard nosed business person pick ? In reality they are the slow ones with a limp and trying hard wont guarantee they escape
cannot comment on McD's directly but their website for vacancies asks for the following for trainee managers.
Ardwick Trainee Manager Ardwick
Job Location: Ardwick Green, Greater Manchester, UK
Employment Type: Full Time
Restaurant: Ardwick
You’ll be working alongside the franchised restaurant management team. Many of our franchises have £million plus turnover and employ a team of 60 or more people. You’ll help set targets; manage budgets and control stock, as well as assisting in the recruitment, training and inspiration of Crew Members. A franchised restaurant is a restaurant operated by a local business person trading under the McDonald's name. Currently half of our restaurants in the UK are franchised but from a customer point of view there's no difference. For employees there will be minor differences between a company and a franchised restaurant. Please refer to additional information for more details.
[b]Requirements:
You’re a graduate – or someone with bags of ambition and at least 2 years relevant management experience under your belt[/b]
Attributes:
We'll give you the knowledge, skills and confidence. Apply determination, hard work and ambition, and you could make Restaurant Manager within just four years. You’ll be someone who is open, outgoing, up for the challenge and has good people skills. On top of that you’re the type of person who goes the extra mile and always looks for what they can learn from other people. As this is a people-led business, you’ll be a good listener and a team player who is adaptable, open to change and open-minded.
As the parent of two year old and a one year old boys, this thread scares the bejebus out of me. Should have a warning in the title. 😯
Ermm.. - 10pounds...
Aye, tried McD's a few times, they've got various in house training, pub quiz, 5 a-side teams etc one the better options going atm.
Everyone always has a story like but one of me mates went straight in to working full time at the co-op (38hrs broken into 4 days) no college or uni but he's heads & shoulders above any of us 'educated' +23k a year w/o overtime, has his own home - right at this moment I wish I'd just got a job & not gone to uni, I thought I was too go for pleb work. Turns out I much prefer pleb work/proper graft/hours etc
I'm 36, outwardly successful. And I'm wasting my life.
Right now (at 11.45pm), I'm posting on here, in between doing all the work I didn't have time to do earlier today. I'm ill and tired and wil go another night without much sleep.
It's not exactly an incentive, is it?
> Requirements:
> You’re a graduate – or someone with bags of ambition and at least 2 years
> relevant management experience under your belt
I'm not sure what you're getting at - they recruit grads as trainee managers and also promote from within. The programmes they have are great really - you know all those stars the employees wear? They indicate progression. They can become floor managers, takes effort for sure.
McDonalds is a great example of "buy into the corporate culture, and you'll progress". Of course, if slacking off is all you ever want, then it's only ever a McJob.
I'm not sure what you're getting at - they recruit grads as trainee managers and also promote from within.
Well that really, as i said I could not comment directly but it supported your view and I had a look because I did not know.
I dont know what you mean by stars they wear as a vegan its not the sort of place I frequent. Are they like military medals or boy scout badges 😉
Does not mean its easy to get a job there though. Its a few years ago and it does have the highest % of teenagers in the UK but[ when i called to speak about jobs] there were over 500 applications on file at the local Mc D's. How typical this is I dont know.
Re: Duane
Blocked during the week (Sunday night to Friday day) all social networking, Facebook, virtualbark, messenger, Vampirefreaks (don't ask). that was all done using Opendns.org
The router we got with BT Infinity allows me to set times when each device can get onto the Internet, so school nights all the kids devices, xbox, ipods, computers get cut off at 10pm.
The reason for her return, "I've got an exam on Thursday and I won't study for it if I'm not at home"
I think you have to be careful not to push your child into a life you want but they don't. As a parent it would destroy me to think I had sentenced me child to a life of unhappiness.
I second ourmaninthenorth. Education isn't everything. I wish I had followed my ambitions of becoming an army officer instead of going to uni. I work silly hours so I can get my kids to uni so they can get a similar job to mine and work silly hours to get their kids to uni. Crazy.
OP you need to discover what motivates him and you can only do this by talking and listening to him. As a bloke you will struggle with the listening part as we (blokes) generally want to provide solutions.
Ignore the draconian cut off access stuff go and sit in his room (knock first you want to set the atmosphere right from the start) while he's on-line, fragging his mates on COD or whatever. Talk about what he's doing on-line, how he's doing with his mates etc. Make him feel you value him for who he is.
It will take a while depending on how low his confidence/esteem is. Once you find a fulcrum and the necessary lever some guidance on life choices will be possible but it's going to take time and patience. You might want to point out that parents don't get a manual for the new child and have to discover stuff as you go along.
Lastly some training I did a long while ago pointed out that you can't force change other people only yourself.
Good luck and as Emsz pointed out above he's not in trouble and has a job so the door is part open.
I would also insist on a regular eating regime, a good balanced diet with plenty of fresh food and vegetables. Also, seeing as he's a teenager, perhaps a blood test would be in order. Certainly a high dose of vit D would help.
ourmaninthenorth - Member
I'm 36, outwardly successful. And I'm wasting my life.Right now (at 11.45pm), I'm posting on here, in between doing all the work I didn't have time to do earlier today. I'm ill and tired and wil go another night without much sleep.
It's not exactly an incentive, is it?
This in an incredibly pertinent post, well written Sir. If we ever meet I shall buy you a beer.
sandwich-- top advice!
cinnamon girl-- you are right, but as you know talking a horse to wate and making it drink are two different tings.
Mudshark-- i do know about Mcd's -- i know a manager, a franchisee, and a number of ex-'crew'-- its not an environment that is any way healthy for body or soul. You will disagree, coming from another part of the spectrum, but the reality is that like football only a very tiny percentage 'progress' up the greasy pole -- and to do that must have sold their souls long ago-- have you ever thought that some people will not do unethical stuff because they have a different moral compass to you ?
Ourmaninthenorth---nails the corporate lie-- i feel for you, and am glad that i'm outwardly poor....
Regime change is needed here, clearly, but it's all about how you can go about it - you need a velvet revolution. 20 yo lad dossing in his w_nk pit 24/7 is just not acceptable by anyone's standards - it's hardly being a disciplinarian to point that out.
You can't just start laying down the law, though - bit like at work where a bad manager might put up with woeful performance for years, they can't just turn round tomorrow and say WTF is your problem and expect that to solve anything.
I think you've just got to make clear your love and support for him in his endeavours, with maybe a frank discussion over what that latter word might mean for him. As rough as it is in the job market for young lads, he has mobility (in principle - many don't).
he's wasting his life is he?
so he's 19, but somehow compared to the majority of teenagers out there has managed to get a part time job. he spends time on the internet like everyone posting on this forum does, he's in a band (good for him, if nothing comes from it then he's had fun with friends being creative, if something does then he'll get the chance to travel with friends, performing on stages).
he doesn't want to talk to you.... when i was 19 i didn't particularly want to talk to my dad. my dad was meant to be my role model according to society but i didn't particularly like the person he was at the time after my parents separation.
if he's getting a 'i think you're wasting your life' vibe off of you as a dad then being 19 i'd fully expect him to be making a point of visibly wasting his life just to wind you up 😆 it's his life to waste and i'm guessing in his opinion he's probably not wasting it.
all this stuff about blocking the internet and stuff would only make me want to spend more time at a bandmates house if i was 19.
at the same time as saying all this i'm a firm believer in being as financially responsible for oneself as possible, i'd probably be going along the lines of upping the rent a bit and if he's not already making him responsible for buying all his own clothes, trainers, music stuff etc.
I'm 36, outwardly successful. And I'm wasting my life.
As above, good post.
I'm not sure I'd want to force my daughters into soul destroying jobs, when there's an alternative. Personally I find some jobs so awful I don't know if I could keep my sanity in tact whilst doing them.
what is a wasted life-- who or what defines it-- if you're talking about wasted potential-- that applies to 99% of the human race-- we live in an exploitative system, it does not encourage creativity, despite the bullshit that you get from the apologists-- the vast majority of humans never get to'fulfil' their potential-- most is never tapped, so whilst all parents want to see their offspring 'fly' --reality is very different-- and it cannot be coerced -- good luck !!
Rudebwoy, I have the T Shirt! 😉
Mudshark-- i do know about Mcd's -- i know a manager, a franchisee, and a number of ex-'crew'-- its not an environment that is any way healthy for body or soul. You will disagree, coming from another part of the spectrum, but the reality is that like football only a very tiny percentage 'progress' up the greasy pole -- and to do that must have sold their souls long ago-- have you ever thought that some people will not do unethical stuff because they have a different moral compass to you ?
What's my moral compass? I don't do unethical stuff - McDonalds do?
Actually I never got on there as it was just a way to earn a burger or two whilst waiting for Uni but I knew people who got on OK who seemed nice and normal. Some of the managers were gits for sure but many places are like that right?
Jeezus, we must have been lucky with our three kids! My heart reaches out to the OP - I can't imagine not being able to engage with my bunch of daft but loveable twerps.
The eldest was never a problem - always motivated and driven, has been all over the world by age of 25 (currently in Africa), has a MSc and is applying for funding for a PhD.
The middle one was a bit of a problem - bad friend choices, disasterous attempt at A levels, alcohol and (probable) substance abuse which we managed to catch before things got really out of hand. Sat her down (forcibly on a few occasions) and got her to discuss, frankly, what she thought she was doing, what she really wanted to do and where she saw herself in ten years time. We ended up letting her drop out of school for a year and make her part time, supermarket job into a, virtually, full time one, all the while looking for an area/subject that she was really interested in. Finished up doing voluntary work in a theatre and a BTec in technical theatre studies - she loved it! Due to the recession theatre jobs are few and far between so she went into fashion retail (OK, clothes shop assistant) and is now an assistant manager at a quality, national clothing store.
The youngest...............hmm, yes. Lovely lad but as daft as a brush - didn't think he'd get through GCSE's let alone anything else BUT! - between me and his eldest sister we got him through Science, Maths and English and he did his own thing with Art and Design Technology. There was no way on this Earth he was going to do A levels/stay on at school, so, once again we sat him down and asked what he really, really was interested in. He ended up doing a BTec in Graphic Design with the idea that he'd then look for employment because he didn't want to go to university..........er, he's, currently at Uni(2nd year) and is predicted a first!
What I think I'm trying to say is that the OP must, must, must try and find a way to engage with his son............even if it means breaking down in tears in front of him - it's because you [b]do[/b] care - worked with my middle one, she was so shocked that her Dad [b]did[/b] actually love her so much. Once he can see and accept that love the rest might be just that bit easier.
*crosses fingers*
Amen Toxicsocks. They are simultaneously the most rewarding and exasperating part of my life. I'm glad we didn't miss the ride.......
As a former yoof worker, I have to tell you I've seen much worse situations. He at least has a p/t job and a hobby. Presumably he isn't abusing alcohol or drugs, and he isn't in any kind of trouble with the law, or at risk of any major long term harm.
It's not a great world out there for young people in Britain any more. Few jobs, fierce competition for the jobs there are. Little or no help if you want to go to uni or better yourself. Graduates don't fare much better in the job market than non-graduates in the current climate. A lot of young people don't feel there is much hope for them, or that anybody in charge particularly cares - this government have well and truly pulled the rug out from under them. Cuts in youth services, and careers guidance in schools. High tuition fees and debt. Crap labour market. Allowing companies to offer "apprenticeships" that aren't worth the paper they're written on, so young people work a full time week for less than minimum wage only to be jettisoned after 6 months for the next cohort of cheap labour. And lets not go there on welfare to work schemes - Poundland, Argos, TK Maxx, and a host of other companies who would previously have employed young people over the Christmas period now don't need to, because they can have a slew of them from the Jobcentre who are compelled to work for their benefits. Profit before people.
If I was your son's age, I'm really not sure how I'd see my future either.
Get him on a ski season job or one-way ticket to oz just tell him he's staying til his visa runs out.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS +A BILLION
With out a doubt a game changer - this would be my suggestion.
At 19 I dropped out of Uni and properly dossed for a few years -
littlemisspanda speaks sense
If you feel he needs some tough love, then I'd suggest the following. This is how my dad and his wife addressed problems with my younger sister, who is a similar age to your son, and expected to spend her lengthy summer uni holiday (mid-May to mid-September) dossing around and living the life of Reilly. They figured, she's an adult, so she should be allowed to make some choices. So they gave her three options, realising that a paid summer job given the current climate would not necessarily be an option.
1) Do nothing, and pay board out of her student grant (she is Danish-born, so gets one, and it's not ungenerous, they pay in the holidays too).
2) No board to pay, but she takes up voluntary work doing something useful in the community which takes up at least half of her week (might be less for your son, if he already does some paid work). Your son could perhaps teach music/drumming to kids/teens, if that's what he's into.
3) No board to pay, but she takes care of the housework and garden/animals (they have chickens and ducks) and also calls on the elderly neighbours each day and does chores and shopping for them. If chores are not fulfilled option 1 ensues.
My sister chose to volunteer doing art work with disabled adults, as she likes art and media and film making. She needed a push to get it organised (and threat of Option 1 being invoked) but she did it and in the end, liked it, and she's got something on her CV now. Voluntary work is a good thing for young people to do if they can't find a job and plenty of charities are looking for people to help. Tough love yes, but offer some choice and some decision making opportunity.
I guess I was brought up with a totally different set of rules to most people .
It really was either study , or work and pay housekeeping.
At 19 I was never at home anyway , I had a good job , car and went fishing all weekend , pretty much every weekend.
I just cannot get my head around the concept that from roughly aged 13 to about 23 you have to be prepared to accept what your children do.
Not one person knocked on my door at work this year asking if we had any positions available, not one.
Different generation , different upbringing.
There seems an obvious link between your marriage break up and his lack of enthusiasm for tackling life! I think he feels lost. No family, no security of a loving home and no future, it's almost an 'orphan' situation. He needs someone to love him and take an interest in him full time not now and then.
It's a tough situation for you, your ex wife and him but he needs time not money and support and encouragement. not many kids really know what they want to do but somehow we mostly get there in the end usually with a bit of support.
How about something music related at college? some work experience in the industry?
Give him some real quality time on a regular basis, get to know him and don't try to fix him, try and understand him. talk about your marriage break up and help him understand your position.
Hope it goes well.
Yeah, avoid tough love approach - will just create a rift between you. You are seemingly his last stable connection to home and the real world. Ruining that will ruin him.
I'm in no way having a go, but people seriously underestimate the impact of divorces and the importance of making do to preserve the family if at all possible - seems like a 21st century trend to me, and it's such a shame.
He will find his calling.
There seems an obvious link between your marriage break up and his lack of enthusiasm for tackling life! I think he feels lost. No family, no security of a loving home and no future, it's almost an 'orphan' situation.
he is a moody 19 year old and we all know only divorced folk have these 😕
I had no idea this topic would provoke such a wide range of responses, most of which have a lot of common sense and merit - thanks for all your input, and my heart goes out to those of you with some of your own experiences.
I know he's far from being the worst of cases; he's not in trouble with the law, his mates are all essentially 'nice' guys (some privately educated and no better placed than him - at least I haven't spend tens of thousands on him not getting his A's), he's smoked a bit of weed along with his roll ups and doesn't drink to excess.
Yes, getting him fixed up in a kibutz, working in a ski resort, mountain leaders course, voluntry work etc.etc would be fine but if he won't even consider it I can't force him (he's bigger than me now!).
He won't consider doing anything at all without his mates - almost certainly lacking in self confidence (and yes I do praise him when it's due).
I've tried the gentle, matey, tolerant approach along with getting heavy, threats (and carrying them out), but to no avail.
Agree with those of you that say we parents shouldn't try to 'inflict' our lifestyle/job coices onto our children - he has to find his own way by discovering his own interests and passions - music is about the only one.
Gave him a decent old skool Diamond Back mtb but he lost it....
And no, I don't provide him with any cash and he has to buy anything he needs, he won't be let off his arrears in 'rent', I don't switch the internet off (although I have done on odd occasions)as this would alienate him from me entirely.
It's quite probable that the marriage breakdown has adversely affected him as it came a bad time (is there ever a good time?!) but he won't ever discuss it despite many offers/prompts from me.
God,we need the wisdom of Soloman!
Someone asked about his band; http://dirty-cousins.tumblr.com/
the band is centre of his life at the moment-- its creative, harmless, and will teach him loads !
Why not sit with him and write some sort of business plan for the band?
At the very least he'll be able to see for himself whether it's a realistic option or just a hobby.
