Generally speaking, people only put effort and commitment into something if they enjoy it.
So he hasn't found anything he enjoys yet. Can you perhaps help him find something? I mean leave responsibility and crap out of it at first, just find something inspiring (and non-destructive), then see if you can figure out how to make it work.
If he is a good drummer, perhaps try and get him involved in music in a more serious way?
There you go.
Looking back, the thing that got me motivated was realising that some graft could get you somewhere. Finding something that he can improve at and have some success with will help him to figure out that when he does something for himself he'll reap the rewards. It doesn't have to be financial success, just the link between work/effort/dedication and reward. 'Stickability' is a real problem for a lot of people - it was for me at a young age. Perhaps his music could be a positive thing...got any gigs coming up?...have you been?...told him you think he's good, if if his music isn't? That would be a reward for all the effort he puts in to his music, even if you don't personally think it's worthwhile. Don't ask him...just go!
I think all of the 'stick' motivations suggested can only get you so far. People need to experience success in their own right to have the means to respond to the challenges they face. He's also only 19 - and times have changed - it's not that old. He'll be fine with the right encouragement.
My 2p
I wasn't exactly in a great place when i was 19. Parents had split up many years before, one had just died and I as a few years into my wilderness years - which involved too many drugs, too much booze, the occasional shitty jobs and a lot of doing not much - except biking . A levels had gone badly (failed everything except art) and just scraped through an art foundation course. Had no idea where I was headed and no real intention of changing.
Woke up one morning and decided I'd had enough. 3.5 years later I had a degree, a decent job in a big design agency and my own flat in London.
In those lost years I probably didn't achieve much but they did sort my head out. And I don't regret a single day. Well... Apart from that night with a girl called Mandy...
Is he suffering from depression maybe? If so some help (CBT, behavioural activation etc) might be helpful?
Just a thought.
but he's fallen behind paying
£10 a week?
and you dont think you're a bit of a walk over?
Give him some reasons why you and his mother are proud of him. To me it sounds like he had GCSE burn-out and parental separation, and confidence is probably at rock bottom. Try and boost it.
And take him cycling - do something you both enjoy, just be there for him. There's a time for tough love, and that's when he's obviously taking advantage. It doesn't sound like he is to me.
Yes, £10/week is nothing and he's lucky I haven't kicked him out but feel this wouldn't benefit anyone.
Totomthepipersson - I like your story, it shows there's hope for all of us!
Some professional councelling would probably be a good thing but it has to be voluntary... you can lead a horse to water etc.
you can lead a horse to water etc.
As long as you listen, you should be OK.
I think what he'll do with his life will have more to do with what his friends do with theirs.
I stayed at home when i left uni, its great when your mates are around, but when everyone starts leaving for better jobs and moving out and stuff, you realise you're still living with parents and you need to get a decent job too.
I wouldn't start pestering about mid-long term plans, thats quite an irritating question when you've got no idea what you want to do.
A-level in music? You don't have to be in a band to be involved in music.
Don't pester - I think I might have been more proactive had I been given a wee bit space. At that age I may have been a wee bit depressed and nagging just made me rebel a wee bit.
My cousin who had mental health issues has done much better since his folks retired to Spain. Got a job, seems a bit more lively. I think he realised he was now responsible. His mum was a bit too protective and his dad too stand offish.
Travel and exploration is also a very good medicine.
This is an interesting thread.. I'm on the child side of it. Being 19 and without a job.
My GCSE's didn't do amazing. (D&E grades) I got some college qualifications too. Just passed a 2 year course but there are no jobs out there. Infact, I have applied for driving jobs and jobs at places like McDonalds but there really are no vacancies available.
I do have some money of my own so I'm not sponging particularly. But I am stuck in the rut of no passion, no desire, no jobs. I mean, if I could find some work I'd take it. My relationship with my parents isn't good either. We just don't really get on. If you want my advice, I would say you've got to be kind of gentle about it and if you can help him get a better job then do it. But talk to him about it first. Even if it's just things like helping him write a good CV/cover letter. Things like that go a long way, it's a great olive branch too use.
Best of luck with your son mate. 🙂
INSIST he goes to Oz with you! No get outs.
That might break his cycle and show him there's more to life.
Good luck. My Bro has lived at home all his 42 years. He's never filled his vast potential and seems happy to sponge off my mother-but he can't see what he's doing. I think he might have some mild autism/Aspergers as he seems to struggle with interaction with others.
I've been there; after graduation I hung around and dossed on people's floors until they'd had enough of me then went back to my parents' house several times. It was a terrible time and I was definitely depressed. In those days there was no internet to distract me though. Getting my first proper job was what pulled me out of it. My nephew has just come out of it when he got his first job and his sister is still in the same rut as the OP describes.
If there's a common factor it's that my parents were going through a very bad time with their marriage and had no time for us kids while for my niece and nephew, their mum (my sister) was dying with MS and not a pleasant person, while her husband had given up on the relationship.
I can remember when I was younger and my parents used to row and I remember being absolutely terrified at the prospect of them separating; it would have been the most devastating thing that could ever have happened. So don't underestimate the effect of your own breakup on your son; he may be a big boy now but I think it will have affected him badly and may explain his depression. Could you and your ex meet to discuss the problem? What he needs is tough but fair and loving treatment and above all consistency from both of you - as soon as he discovers a weakness he will expoit it despite himself.
Overseas travel would be a great way to break the vicious cycle of boredom and depression and - dare I say it? - removal of the computer. The band thing is just a distraction and an excuse and won't last once he's got out of the rut he's in.
A bit random but I hope it helps.
Sounds like the poor guys lost his mum (parents) and could be grieving the loss.
Your focusing on the negatives, he's a great drummer, start there.
MDMA session.for the pair of you with a counceller should do the trick.
Buzz+1
My bestfriend at school was hilarious then his parents split and I guess his shield/world vanished. He had a breakdown whereas I went the sameway as your son. Advice? Positive pressure but you need to get him away from the Swengali and that group.
My youngest daughter went through a real bad patch in her teenage years. Self harmed and couldn't hold down a job. Moved to Edinburgh and the same pattern started again. We paid of her debts and brought her home. Gave her a bit of tough love and a few stark choices,although those would have been empty threats. One year on she has a full time job and is in a stable relationship and has paid us back for her debts. Throughout this whole period we trusted that we had bought her up well and loved. A tough period for us all but the price you pay as a parent l' m afraid. Hang in there
Tough love is the right term - but I think used in the wrong direction by most here. Piemonster (now officially a STW sage) is right, be a good parent. Its going to be tough for you and importantly the ex. You need to agree what you do and stick to it. Not just for a couple of weeks either. He's behaved like this for ages so you will have to put the effort in for ages/years. You need to show an example. And consistency is the key.
Plan events and discuss how you are saving for new bike/computer/holiday /etc so he sees the need to work to achieve. Talk about the new drum kit and how he will get it. Create his aspiration, not yours. He will have one somewhere. As others have said it may well take years to find though.
Give responsibility as much as possible. If he's at home and you're working tell him to get the evening meal sorted. Not just on the day though. Discuss the week ahead. A small amount of cash to get ingredients rather than a take-away. That means he also has to see you cooking and not just picking up a pizza.
If you don't reject him but give a firm consistent patten of behaviour (you and ex mrs) with strong example of a life that you enjoy living he will respect you and recognise your love, eventually.
Good luck.
His world fell apart when he was fifteen now most advice is to kick his arse, I suspect he needs some love & support and try indulging his passion (band) he may then see in his own time that this band isn't viable and decide to move on that may spur him into further education or better job.
Not got a spare bike or access to a spare, go on a bike ride , great place to talk, he might be suprised and enjoy it, good luck whatever you try!!
Don't be too hard on him, he's 19 ffs. Don't be a pushover either, but remember, he's prob had a tough couple of years, and doesn't need you ripping him a new one and telling him he's a bum. Be his mate.
Remember what its like being 19, I know I was a useless lazy ****er, as were a lot of people I know, even if they say otherwise now.
My brother went the same way, but I couldn't see why tbh. No break-ups or anything. My folks tried there best and didn't really give up. It took him until his late 20's to bring himself around.
But, we don't see him really - and I think that basically that's how he is, and always will be (late 40's) now. Happy in his own little world, but not how I'd want to live.
And, all this STW posturing of 'tough love' and 'charge him', ignore it unless you just want your son out of your life - as that will most likely be the result.
My brother went the same way, but I couldn't see why tbh. No break-ups or anything. My folks tried there best and didn't really give up. It took him until his late 20's to bring himself around.
But, we don't see him really - and I think that basically that's how he is, and always will be (late 40's) now. Happy in his own little world, but not how I'd want to live.
And, all this STW posturing of 'tough love' and 'charge him', ignore it unless you just want your son out of your life - as that will most likely be the result.
Switch the broadband off during work hours?
Encourage him to seek more full-time employment, if only to give him a taste of the sort of job opportunities available for young people without A levels/degrees.
cant believe no ones mentioned 'drugs' probably cos they are too expensive these days and everyone knows u need at least a £30k job to feed a habit.
Piemonster speaks with wisdom, a good human is worth so much more than a mindless automaton/careerist-- tis a tender age- he is not out robbing, dealing class A's, or committing white collar crime-- so look on the bright side, he is a sensitive soul,thats always a big plus-- life is a funny thing, and none of us can see round corners.
What exactly do you want him to do ? It is apparent he may not share your 'goals' for him ?
A job on a fishing trawler would wake him up !
What is a wasted life anyway, doing a job you hate ? or idly passing along ?
There's a lot of people here a bit out of touch & a lot of good advice too. For the young'uns there are no jobs unless family has business(s) even night watch jobs, lollypop person jobs etc there are none.
Get him on a ski season job or one-way ticket to oz just tell him he's staying til his visa runs out.
I can put you in touch with one or two coaches who specialise in working with families/parents/teens/young adults. Email me if you'd like an introduction.
EDIT: I used to coach and know how effective it can be, hence what I say above is genuine and not something I make light of.
I've not read all of the above but I would limit his internet access to a couple of hours a day and even then he has to earn it.
So you need to see evidence (in terms of emails sent/phonecalls made etc) that he is actively looking for work before he is given access. This is relatively easily done by managing your router.
He's in a rut and needs knocking out of it. Disrupting his 'spending the day in bed on the web' lifestyle will form part of it.
You can't change it overnight and he's going to have to find his own way out of it but you are currently facilitating and funding the way he lives - he needs ot understand that this is not a permanent thing.
Print this thread out and give it to him.
I've known a few people who spent ages in bands in their late teens, and ended up as anything from professional muso types to software developers, academics, or homeless people busking on the tube. It is really hard to predict what will happen to them in the long term.
In some ways, your teenage years are when you're supposed to waste your life. You have no commitments, no kids, and if you're lucky you have somewhere to crash. They can always go back and do a levels and university later if they decide they want to. In that respect, with the way university funding works nowadays, it is much better to drop out now, than to have been pushed into doing an unsuitable course and then drop out some point during that course. Yes, bands are a long shot, whatever your genre, but when else in your life are you ever going to get a chance to try for success in the music industry than as a lazy teenager?
On the other hand, I have known people who's parents have bankrolled a million aspirational things throughout their late teenage years or after university, never charged them rent etc, all of which they never really applied themselves to, so there's obviously a potential bad side to not learning to be independent and getting out.
Been through absolute hell with my son from the age of 13 to 22 (and I mean hell).
from police.. drugs.. addiction.. violence.. to general apathy with life and threats of suicide.
You swear that you'll never give up, but there comes a point where you have to simply admit defeat and turn your back. I did that last year.
Life is far too short for anyone to have a "drop out period".
As someone said a few pages back, how much are YOU contributing to his lazy bone-idle lifestyle? Surprising how much!
When I dropped out of Uni (never really sure why I went in the first place..), and moved back home - my parents said...
"You can live here 'rent-free' (including car insurance/petrol) for 2 months to find a job and move out. It could be anywhere in the UK, or in the world. But for the next 2 months, we expect you to put the effort in to find something, and any money you earn during this period use wisely for a flight ticket/rent deposit. After 2 months your stuff will be outside the front door. Understood?"
Picked up work in the local village supermarket for some weekly income, and secured a 'career' job 200 miles away in about a month.
Stood on my own two feet ever since.... nearly 10 years now.... sheeeh time flies!
To the OP - you are not alone, 6 months since the youngest left school & just managed to get him far enough off his arse to get a pot washing job at the local (5 mins walk), one step at a time 🙂
There's a huge range of opinions there guys (and girls?), much common sence and wise words and thanks to all who've contributed.
Clearly, there's no such thing as a quick fix and we're in it for the long haul. Tough love is a phrase popping up regularly. The odd thing is, his younger brother (13) and elder sister (23) are both doing fine.
Thanks to all.
Life is far too short for anyone to have a "drop out period".
My opinion on this is that life is too short for anyone to waste their time on a treadmill of default options, doing A levels they're not interested in, following it by a pointless degree that their parents thought was a good idea*. A lot of people would be better off getting a realistic idea of what they are capable of and what they want to do, and then working out how to achieve it. If it is a degree, then at least do one that you are interested in.
Although possibly bumming around at your parents is not the best place to find out what you want to do in the long term, and it might be better to get a job while you do that rather than sponge off your parents. But I think it is better to acknowledge that you don't know what to do, than to rush into doing stuff just because you should.
Joe
*like people who are sent to do law, medicine etc. because it's a solid career degree and they think there's a guaranteed job in it - there probably is if you get a 1st from a good university, but if you're uninterested and get a 3rd or go to a poor university, you aren't much better off than when you started.
encourage the drumming; i have friends in successfulbands (like on the telly/ radio)
some got signed as their band and are still together, other friends went the music college / BIMM route, jumped from band to band, sessioning for 'solo type singers', etc. All worked hard though.
try and find something to motivate him a bit, whatever it's towards.
The odd thing is, his younger brother (13) and elder sister (23) are both doing fine.
it's not a one size fits all thing though is it.
How much weed does he smoke a week?
Stop subsidising his lifestyle choices i.e. restrict what you give him to £10 a week, get some family therapy for you and him, and insist he starts to pay his own way while he lives under your roof.
Ultimately accept it about choices, and let go. It is his life to waste if that's what he chooses to do and you don't have to choose to house him/subsidise him/feed him while he wastes it. Don't blame yourself or the ex for what you cannot now undo.
People tend to be most motivated to do things they have a passion for - like a lot of people here are about bikes.
Do you think he's talented and hard-working enough to make music a way to earn a living? Or is there something else he loves to do and has a talent for... that you can support him to do?
Is there any liklihood he's depressed, which the GP can provide support with?
I suspect when he finds his direction he'll be fine
I dunno, I'm 25 in a good (very good) job and reallllyyyyyyyy want a "drop out period" having boucned from GCSE's to A-levels, to a 4 year degree, to a job. Looking at the savings account/deposit that would pay for one hell of a year out before the whole work/mortgage treadmill till you retire kicks in!
Definately wouldn't be spending it at home in bed though!
a "drop out period" is not the same as sitting on your arse at home.
I dont think anyone here is insisting he get on a treadmill, rather get a bit of necessity in his life to force him to get on with living it.
And spoon, arguably you've earned the opportunity to drop out for a bit, especially if you're able to pay for it yourself and not need bank rolling by family or a loan.
Sounds similar to my wife's brother.
He's aged 32. Left school at 17 with decent grades and went to college to study music technology but dropped out. He then spent a few years drifting between menial jobs before deciding at age 25 he wanted to go to go to Uni. He got a degree in Scottish Literature or some other nonsense then went on to do a masters, which he failed. He's now been unemployed for almost 3 years, after quitting the part time job he had in an off licence because they wouldn't give him a Sunday off at late notice.
To say he's a waste of space is a massive understatement and he's a bizarre set of contradictions. On one hand he believes himself to be significantly more intelligent than everyone one else, and is quite snobbish about it, but the longer he's been unemployed the more left leaning he's become. He considers himself too good to do a "McJob" as he's such a (self confessed) genius, yet he lays the blame for his unemployment firmly on the tories and anyone else he can think of. Basically it's everyone elses fault. Nothing to do with the fact that he's a fat, lazy slob that refuses to do a day's work and he spends all day sleeping and only wakes at night.
My in-laws supported him through Uni, paying for his flat in Edinburgh, paying his tuition fees and giving him spending money. This continued long after he failed his masters and was unemployed. He's never actually told him he failed the masters though. About a year ago my father-in-law cut him off financially, but allowed him to move back home and would support him there, but he would no longer support him to live in Edinburgh.
So now he's living back at home, making his parents life misery, and to make matters worse my mother in law has terminal cancer so they have a hard enough time at the moment, and their misery is compounded by him storming about the house blaming everyone else for his lot in life, without doing a single thing to try and change it. Happy enough to scrounge off his parents and the state, while spouting his leftist progaganda nonsense.
Prick.
Not read the whole thread, but quick glances have thrown up exactly what I'd expect, such as 'tough love', scrounger, etc...
People need to get a grip. He's 19! Where in the rule book does it say that a 19 year old should be on the career ladder with a plan set out as to what they're going to do for the next 40 years? Force the issue and he may well make the wrong choice and end up either flunking or dropping out of whatever he does, or even worse will end up spending the rest of his life doing something he hates. It's not like there are any jobs for 19 year olds anyway, so what's the rush? In the end if he has half a brain as you say he has, he'll make the right choices. Your job in the meantime is to help him in whatever way you can to make those right choices. After all, what is the alternative?
Is your boys band online?
Care to post a link?
Feeling for you. However. Having been similar at that age, chances are he'll snap out of it or just get bored of it or. Meet a lady / bloke who will snap him out of it.
Lets hear the band.
Get him on a ski season job or one-way ticket to oz just tell him he's staying til his visa runs out.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS +A BILLION
That is all
No it isn't, if you can get him round to the idea of a Ski Season (either hemisphere) that could really help (if he was me that is, pinch of salt again here)
What more could you want, he'll be working for a start. But there's so much going on for entertainment that'll he'll start to build a positive work ethic without even trying.
Should have suggested it last night, but the working holiday thing can be truly awesome and there are so many options out there.
Anything from Ski, Hostels, Continental Campsites, PGL (are they still going?), doubtless hundreds of others.
Slightly off the working track, maybe a language school. I went to a Don Quijote school a few years ago and it was awesome. Hard work but such good fun and a totally different learning experience to what I experienced at school. [url= http://www.donquijote.co.uk/english/la/spanishinlatinamerica.asp ]http://www.donquijote.co.uk/english/la/spanishinlatinamerica.asp[/url]
You may wish to blank out the next sentence.
Gap Year style working holidays. Beer, Girls, Mountains, more Beer and more Girls, all tied in with some hard work. Teaches independence, self reliance, social skills, work ethics(sort of), Awesome. What more does a 19 year old lad need? And after all that freedom fooling around with some drunken lovely wee lass would you want to go back to languishing around alone in your bedroom? Negative side to this could be he keeps reappearing every 4-5 months while trying to sort a new season job out.
Tis what I'd suggest to him. If you don't stand tall and grab life by the nuts it'll kick you in yours and pass you by.
Sigh, wish I was a sulky 19yr old again.....
