[Closed] VY Canis Majoris, now my world is upside down

Explain please.

I quite often boggle my own mind by thinking about stuff.

This one does it for me:

[url= http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~gmackie/billions.html ]"... the total number of stars in the universe is greater than all the grains of sand on all the beaches of the planet Earth."[/url]

-- Carl Sagan (slightly misquoted)

To me this means two important things:
1) it is pretty likely we are not alone in the universe (though sadly we may never make contact)
2) God must have been [u]really[/u] busy on that fourth day when he created the stars...

Sand's more useful though, really.

Sand's more useful though, really.

Without sand I wouldn't be writing this (silicon).

Without our star we wouldn't exist.

VY Canis Majoris isn't the same as Sirius is it?

Sirius is small and close, VY CMa is big and far away (I think).

If you're having trouble comprehending it, just remember the wisdom of Father Ted...

[img] http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v610/mspkye/PDVD_003.jp g" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v610/mspkye/PDVD_003.jp g"/> [/img]

Brian cox: awesome Physicist and populariser of science, [i]and[/i] he was rather good in "The Bourne Identity" too 🙂

If

you're having trouble comprehending it, just remember the wisdom of Father Ted...

Don't. They tried telling me it was Gatwick, when all along it was Farnborough airport. 😥

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the "Milky Way".

Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.

Things can only get better...

Sand's more useful though, really.

No stars = No sand

Pollux! 🙂

(Giggles uncontrollably at the sheer mind-bogglingness of it all)

Betelgeuse is a bit of a big old mofo too, and easy to see because it's it's only about 640 light years away (though there's a high margin of error in that measurement).

Or to put it another way, the light we see from it tonight left it sometime in the 14th Century when our ancestors would have been dressed in rough smocks whilst standing on a riverbank and throwing turnips at a witch.

(This still happens in some parts of Fife.)

Check diss, and prepare to be even more emboggled:

[url= http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347 ]Scale of the Universe[/url]

Here is another.
Bleedin 'ell elfin, i'm off to drink something strong now.

That's great eth3er only thing is I need to go to sleep now, & my mind will get annoyed at the petty stuff @ work compared to this.

And people think it all started with a small point that went kaboom.

Big Bang Bollocks.

And people think it all started with a small point that went kaboom.

If the universe is uniformly expanding everywhere and everything is (observably) getting further apart, then surely the idea that everything was once closer together, isn't really that hard to accept.

The only difficult bit is how [i]close[/i] and what caused them to separate.

Yeah, but some tiny point with all the shit around us contained in it? And it just went fart. And 4 and whatever billion years later we've got all this sand? Yeah right.

Big
Bang
Bollocks.

Complete bollocks.

Enough of all this flim flam... I'm gonna start believing in God, makes a lot more sense.

Well you can kinda understand why Einstein did, and Hawkins does.

Big Bang my arse.

I saw two cars going away from one another. Only thing was, they passed one another on the motorway, sofor a second they were really close together. But they started out further apart.

Advance a view DD. Saying ************ isn't intelligent discourse, lets pretend were are mature.

Next thing DD you'll be saying evolution is wrong.

Yeah, but some tiny point with all the shit around us contained in it?

I'm not sure that it is a "tiny point" like the head of a pin. We don't really have the foggiest notion of what it might have been like before the [url= http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_epoch ]Planck epoch[/url] as we don't understand enough about quantum physics yet.

It only starts from a "singularity with infinite density" if we ignore quantum gravity. There may be other explanations once we understand that.

Point is, it is a working model, one that the brightest people in the world more or less agree on and can make observations that fit with it.

Why should I advance a view?

So everything, all this wonderment of stars and planets and stuff just came from a pinhead? Lolcopters.

Get the bejesus outta here 🙂

All because some physicists can't really understand...

Bleedin 'ell elfin

😀

I now, mad, in't it?

Whenever I get going on a good mind-boggling sesh, all these petty arguments of is there/isn't there a god/s just fade into insignificance.

If that's the case, and all these things are so vast and we're on one teeny tiny speck of dust in the whole scale of things, I don't think it really matters what we think. Therefore just think what you like, if it makes you happy and gives you some sense of meaning to things.

I'm cool with evolution. I like that it gets things wrong sometimes. Right now, I've got a spot on my chin caused by my skin deciding to reject a bristle that turned back 180 degrees on itself only a mm or so away from where it started. And yesterday, I, a supposedly highly evolved human, bit my tongue. Intelligent design my arse.

Graham, what do you do? I'm only asking as you seem to have rather brilliant knowledge and may just become my 6th favorite person. I am really interested in knowing a more about our galaxies.

Planck Epoch...

I notice the phrase:

it is believed

So everything, all this wonderment of stars and planets and stuff just came from a pinhead? Lolcopters.

Is one possible explanation. Though "pinhead" is a difficult measurement because it is "infinitely dense" and space-time is distorted beyond our comprehension so its dimensions are meaningless.

Black holes are observable and show similar properties: they are thought to contain a [url= http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity ]gravitational singularity[/url] where space-time curvature is infinite.

Graham, what do you do?

I google a lot 🙂

I'm waiting for DD to expound his theory on how the universe started. It seems like he subscribes to the 'steady state' theory. Which is fine, but doesn't really explain all the background radio noise, or how come everything is red shifting. Come on DD, let's hear it.

I notice the phrase:
it is believed

Yes, that's how scientific models work. I doubt many credible scientists would say "it is a known fact" for anything around the big bang. All they can say is "[i]we have this theory, based on our understanding of the laws of physics, which appears to be supported by this evidence[/i]"

If you want more definitive answers than that then try a church 🙂

I'm going shopping for a telescope tomorrow so I can get a better look at all this crazy shit.

Really, I am. Except, I won't be going anywhere near a shop. Instead I'll press some keys on my wireless keyboard and click my wireless mouse and some electromagnetic perturbations will be transmitted across my wireless network and one will arrive at my house a few days later.

Except it won't, because all the wonders of the universe and the brave, pioneering spirit of our Earth-bound scientists can still be brought sharply into check by the banal hopelessness of our postal system and I'll have to trudge over to a delivery depot on the outskirts of Livingston or Glenrothes and wait whilst an short, aggressive man ignores me for an hour before wresting a muddied card from my hand, sighing loudly and grunting at one of his fellow dementors who will deliver a sorry, broken package to my hands and rendering all the wonders above me forever mute and dark.

Perhaps I should just side with deadlydarcy. It's easier that way, isn't it?

I'm waiting for CountZero to discover the concept of paragraphs. Maybe next year.

Ah **** it, it's a lazy troll at best. I'm off to say my bedtime prayers. All the best for 2011 stargazers. Can any of you see my future in the movements? I'm Cancer btw. 😉

But come on...Big Bang? Really? Nah...bollocks!! 😀

There may be other explanations

I think this is the safest option, and I'm sticking with that. 🙂

Why should I bother with paragraphs on such a short post? Nobody else worries much, and I'm not writing a magazine article, so why should it bother you?
Not an editor by any chance, are you?
Or just a pedant?
As it happens, I've spent many hours laying out book pages, casting-off copy, pasting-up said pages, proof-reading,
editing and correcting. I do actually have a clue. This is an Internet forum, I'm not being paid to edit it or lay it out properly so I really couldn't give a shit what it looks like. Only the spelling. Is that ok with you?
(Rhetorical question, I don't actually give a toss one way or another).

Everyone chill out and be nice please. Like me. 🙂

All that amazingness. Let's not spoil it by arguing.

I'm borrowing my friend's telescope tomorrow. The sky needs investigating. I need to see more.

It is known that there is an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the product of a deranged imagination.

Amusing, but deeply flawed I feel.

Amusing, but deeply flawed I feel.

I'd like to say take it up with Douglas Adams but it may prove to be a little difficult.

Why should I bother with paragraphs on such a short post?

Dude, you NEVER bother with paragraphs.

Never too late for the "takes himself too seriously award" for 2010 😉 Lighten up sweetheart.

Is that ok with you?
(Rhetorical question, I don't actually give a toss one way or another).

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

stuartie_c - Member

Or to put it another way, the light we see from it tonight left it sometime in the 14th Century when our ancestors would have been dressed in rough smocks whilst standing on a riverbank and throwing turnips at a witch.

(This still happens in some parts of Fife.)

Yes I think its the bit where my sister lives.........and she maybe the one getting turnips thrown at.

Elfinsafety - Member

Don't. They tried telling me it was Gatwick, when all along it was Farnborough airport.

20 years ago, a friend had just got his Private Pilot's Licence. He got into a little trouble by mistaking Gatwick for Biggin Hill and trying to land there.........

I like deadlydarcy's idea because it just adds a bit more hugeness, awesomeness into things.

If you believe we have a god who looks after us, and accept that man is made in his image, and also accept that there are infinite suns/worlds, then you must also accept that there are infinite gods to look after the infinite number of aliens who aren't covered by our own god's remit.

Which means that 'our' god must be pretty busy keeping good relations, bickering, having celestial wars with the aliens' gods.

And all this while trying to balance on a pinhead, or moving away from each other, moving towards each other.....no wonder we haven't seen many miracles lately. (Apart from on 34th Street apparently?)

I like deadlydarcy's idea because it just adds a bit more hugeness, awesomeness into things.

Nooooooo...I was only messing. You'll have the other eejits down on you like a ton of guff in a second.

stuartie_c - if you're in Fife then you might be interested in the Royal Observatory Edinburgh's public events. They run talks throughout the winter. They also do public viewing evenings too, although it looks like this is currently unavailable for renovations.

[url= http://www.roe.ac.uk/vc/actpublic/lectures/ ]clicky[/url]

I like deadlydarcy's idea because it just adds a bit more hugeness, awesomeness into things.

I'm not sure dd had an idea, he just doesn't like the Big Bang Theory.

(quite right to as it is a rubbish derivative sitcom)
[img] [/img]

you must also accept that there are infinite gods to look after the infinite number of aliens

Except our God apparently created all the heavenly bodies, so he must be the main deity.

Also "infinite" keeps getting banded about. Current theory says the universe is finite containing a finite number of bodies. It is just reaaaaallly big.

is finite

Is there a wall at the end?

deadlydarcy - Member

Nooooooo...I was only messing. You'll have the other eejits down on you like a ton of guff in a second.

Am I allowed to say LOL any more?

. It is just reaaaaallly big.

If you think that it's a long way to the chemist, then space is a lot, lot bigger...... (paraphrased from the Hitchhikers Guide.)

Is there a wall at the end?

Nah, just a restaurant.

I'm going shopping for a telescope tomorrow so I can get a better look at all this crazy shit.

Really, I am. Except, I won't be going anywhere near a shop. Instead I'll press some keys on my wireless keyboard and click my wireless mouse and some electromagnetic perturbations will be transmitted across my wireless network and one will arrive at my house a few days later.

Except it won't, because all the wonders of the universe and the brave, pioneering spirit of our Earth-bound scientists can still be brought sharply into check by the banal hopelessness of our postal system and I'll have to trudge over to a delivery depot on the outskirts of Livingston or Glenrothes and wait whilst an short, aggressive man ignores me for an hour before wresting a muddied card from my hand, sighing loudly and grunting at one of his fellow dementors who will deliver a sorry, broken package to my hands and rendering all the wonders above me forever mute and dark.

Perhaps I should just side with deadlydarcy. It's easier that way, isn't it?

Don't give up that easily, buddy.
Whilst you're passing the time between your bank details being skimmed off by some dodgy Russian spyware and receiving the card from DHL saying they tried to deliver even though you were in the whole day, have a look here: [url= http://www.stellarium.org/ ]Stellarium[/url]

Can I recommend this [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Turn-Left-Orion-Hundred-Telescope/dp/0521781906 ]book[/url] and these [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sky-Atlas-2000-0-Wil-Tirion/dp/0933346875/ref=tag_dpp_lp_edpp_img_in ]charts[/url] (try to find it cheaper)? This [url= http://www.amazon.com/National-Audubon-Society-Field-Guide/dp/0679408525 ]book[/url] is also pretty good in lieu of the charts. I'm sure those charts used to be available for about £4...

A set of 7x50 binoculars will do the trick, you can even shove them in your bag on a night ride. Take a torch with a red filter and you're all set. Planisphere is pretty helpful when you're starting out too

Who else is watching Stargazing Live on BBC2?