[Closed] VW Golf R............estate!

Yup, a grippy track for the performance cars but not the Panda.

When did a 138hp Megane become a performance car?

My own subjective experience confirms the Autoplus results: An AMG Merc (for example) stops in much the same manner and distance as a boring hatch in the dry. In the wet a good set of tyres on anything helps but if the tyres were the same I'd expect to stop sooner in the boring hatch.

My own subjective experience confirms the Autoplus results

Haha, it gets better - there's nothing [url= http://www.diffen.com/difference/Objective_vs_Subjective ]SUBJECTIVE[/url] about vehicle stopping distances. Sounds like you must have performed far more emergency stops than me in your driving career and in far more types of vehicles? In nearly 20 years since passing my test and probably 500,000 miles driven I've yet to perform a true emergency stop on UK roads where I've needed to use 100% braking. Guess I'm just leaving too much space between me and the car infront? Knew I was doing something wrong!

I wonder if Moshinonster's Qashqai stops as well as his 911.

You have also made something like 7 or 8 presumptions about people you don't know during that series of overtakes. Only needs 1 of them to be wrong.

You make presumptions all the time when you are driving. If you didn't you would still need a man with a flag in front of you.

No disagree?

When you are doing 70 on the motorway you are presuming you won't have a blow out. When you overtake on the motorway you presume the car you are passing won't drift into your lane. When you drive towards oncoming traffic on a single carriageway you presume that the won't swerve and hit you head on. When you drive through a light controlled junction you presume no one is running a red light.

Driving is a continual series of presumptions and assessments overtaking is no different.

Sounds like you must have performed far more emergency stops than me in your driving career

Quite possible, several hundred per weekend when competing, obviously not on the public road. Not many in recent years. "Subjective" just means that I didn't get out and measure the black lines each time I braked.

Quite possible, several hundred per weekend when competing, obviously not on the public road. Not many in recent years. "Subjective" just means that I didn't get out and measure the black lines each time I braked.

Just when I thought it couldn't get better it does! Competing? Black lines? Surely you know that the most effective way to brake with maximum force (whether competing or not) isn't to induce a skid?

Sorry I'll stop now, as don't think you or I can take any more 😆

Brake hard on sticky tyres and slip angles mean you'll leave black lines while the wheels are still turning. The car is drifting to some extent most of the time once up to speed when either racing or rallying. About the only time it isn't is when accelerating in a straight line.

Wow this thread got long! Has molgrips been going on about overtaking? Anybody fancy doing a quick synopsis save me reading the last 6 pages?

Wrightyson,

I think it started about a Golf Estate and has degenerated into a standard STW bun-fight.

Very interesting braking data and lots of pious statements confirm my suspicion that the fun police are out on patrol.

The good news is that if people get brainwashed by the PC low carbon emission and slow-is-safe brigade, prices of petrol fun-wagons tumble and I get a bargain. Winner!!

I miss my impreza hugely!

Edukator competing a couple of years back 😉

[img] [/img]

Here's the top eight in a 200 car comparative by Autoplus in France. 130kmh to 0kmh:

1er Mercedes CLS 350 avec 62 metres de distance de freinage
2e Mitsubishi Lancer evo 9 avec 62 metres
3e Opel Astra GTC OPC avec 62 m
4e Peugeot 207 1.6 HDi 110cv Fap avec 62 m
5e Porshe Cayman 3.4 S avec 62 m
6e Bmw 120i avec 62 m
7e Bmw X5 4.4i avec 62 m
8e Chrysler Crossfire SRT avec 62 m

See that Peugeot 207 in fourth place. Most normal cars are pretty good, it's only when you get down to cars equipped with off-road tyres that stopping distances increase significantly.

Edit to add an amusing one: Corvette C6 72m

Post a link fella. It's easy to spout shite without backing it up with "evidence".
It would be interesting to see what cars are included and what aren't.
Where's the Mondeo?

I reckon that Golf looks really good. And, should I buy one, I will have to admit that when overtaking 5 cars straight, I would be driving one handed, the other hand being used to manipulate my willy in a waving motion at those I passed.

I like the idea of fast 4 wheel drive estates that do more than 25mpg.

" 😉 "

Overtaking is like jumping, the taking off is only one bit of it, you also need to plan where to land

I'm another one who gets shit scared when I read threads like this and glad I don't spend much time on country A roads. My experience of multi car overtakes is ****ers completely failing to judge distance and having to force their way into the middle of a line of cars causing all of them to brake. That's a line of cars travelling at or very close to the limit - not following a tractor.

Statistically 50% of drivers must have "below average" driving ability but I can count on one hand the number of people who consider themselves poor drivers. Everyone considers themselves "good". So half the people on the road are overestimating their skill.

[img] [/img]

I'm spending s lot of time on a street with a speed check sign on it at the moment. It's a 30mph limit but it's a residential street that's shown on London cycle maps as a "quiet alternative to main roads". It's crossed by LCN 25 - the main south London east west cycle route. (Cyclists are turning right across the majority of traffic due to a one way section). It's crossed by large numbers of primary school kids on their way from an estate to a school. There's a youth club on it.

Most traffic travels at over 30mph. Many at 35-45. A fair number at >45 (sign stops measuring). "high performance" vehicles are over represented in the very high speed group. (As are black Vauxhall Astras for some reason - must now be the 20 something male tosser car of choice).

My take from this is that high performance vehicles encourage high speed and the drivers fail to adjust for road conditions.

I have been involved in the development of vehicle telematics products for over 4 years and have benefit of millions of miles of UK driver data. One of the earliest pieces of information to come from that data was that drivers who regularly exceed the average speed of other motorists or regularly generate above average braking, cornering or acceleration forces are far more likely to be involved in incidents than those who drive more smoothly.

For most people driving is about getting safely from a to b for others its a fun sporting activity which I can understand driving fast is fun! But you shouldn't be under any illusion that it's not dangerous for either yourself or other road users.

All Autocar or Auto Express data performed in the UK on a dry surface. This is a single stop only from cold. If there was any residual heat in the brakes from previous use (as per normal road driving) then it's likely that the results would show a greater variation with the braking distances of the higher performing cars remaining fairly stable, but the lower performing cars braking distances increasing as their braking systems are more prone to fade with as they can't dissipate heat as effectively.

So much for the Mini's sporting pretensions.

The limiting factor in all things automotive is the driver these days. Under optimum conditions, most cars stop in a very similar distance, basic physics sees to that. However, most drivers on the road have no idea of the performance of their car or brake system. Most fail to brake soon or hard enough in emergencies, lots completely fail to even get the ABS activating etc!

Remember, at high speed, the reaction thinking distance starts to get big. At 70mph, you are travelling at 33m every second. Considering your car can probably stop in around 60m, just delaying for a single second your full brake application will make your "stopping distance" 1/3 as long again!! And 1 second is nothing. I regularly see people fail to look up the road, and not brake for 5 or 10 sec, then have a panic brake at the last moment, when they could have just lifted the throttle or braked lightly initally and avoided the accident.

So, what car you drive makes no difference in the real world (until you get to a heavily aero assisted car obviously, like an F1 car etc!)

Mintex 1144s with drilled grooved discs here. Stop very well.

Mintex? I lol at your poverty brakes. Brembo HCs here

😉

Uh, yeah. Sure.

I wonder if Moshinonster's Qashqai stops as well as his 911.

Well the 911 certainly has more tyre grip in most situations (except aquaplaning resistance), it has the braking power to go with the grip and with a rearward biased weight distribution it will have a more even front/rear dynamic weight distribution under braking. So it would be a massive surprise to find that none of this made any difference to the braking distance. Maybe I'll test it and see with a gopro on board.

Reading this thread has reminded me how lucky we all are to have hobbies like cycling and running.

They let us prove our alpha male/female-ness by entering races and beating people in actual competitions, rather than being a "driving enthusiast" who has to rely on spending more money and having less imagination for consequences than other people.

Agree Finbar, its rare for any driving thread to end without a degree of handbaggery / cockwombleness....

I don't even look at speeding, winter tyre or similar threads ...

I only enjoy the nostalgia old car stuff ...

Agree Finbar, its rare for any [s]driving[/s] thread to end without a degree of handbaggery / cockwombleness....

FTFY

 

just spotted this: http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/11/20/golf-r-estate-kills-off-all-other-cars/#.VHOVbIusUYk

(apologies if already posted)

Finbar + 1

having read all the stuff through the 8 pages I think I can sum it up with a few Pro Fast diving points
You need fast cars to get round other slower people safely -these cars come with a telepathic interface to read the minds of the other people round you but just in case you can just boot it.
Overly powerful cars are dull, it's more fun to be driving something to it's limits - on public roads, with other people around.

Most fun car I drove recently was a ridiculously slow 3cyl Clio. Good handling and ride, naff all power meant on country roads I thrashed its nuts off (it was hired) to barely break 50mph. I'd have had to back off completely in the Passat.

Most fun car I drove recently was a ridiculously slow 3cyl Clio. Good handling and ride, naff all power meant on country roads I thrashed its nuts off (it was hired) to barely break 50mph. I'd have had to back off completely in the Passat.

Did you manage to pull of an overtake in it?

Not a chance, it was properly slow 🙂

Cars have got so fast lately. I bet this'd be great, but you'd struggle to feel like you were actually going that fast / stretching the cars ability. That'd put you in license losing territory all the time, or bore you silly. Probably both.

Stuff that feels fast is great - tinny/old cars win at that. I've got a 22 year old Fiat Panda and a 23 year old Saab 900 (well, sort of - see other thread - sad times). The Saab is running low boost atm which makes it ~diesel generic levels of quickness, but it feels much quicker for some reason.

The Panda is ridiculous, though. It's one of the slowest and definitely least powerful cars I've ever driven, but it's comedy gold. 35mph in a car never felt so fast.

You'd probably have to be going 3x as fast on the same road in the Golf to match the feeling of speed (and mild panic) that doing stuff in the Panda instills in your passengers. So yeah - I'm sure this Golf is an amazing piece of kit, but I bet my commute in the Panda is more fun than it would be in this. And even without hearing the Golf, I know the 900 makes a better noise, and that's without it having to play extra noise through the speakers 😉

8 pages, I assume this has gone from a car thread to a driving thread? Anything new, or standard stuff? And is molly involved?

*waves*

Hi! What do you think, is it worth a read?

No. Same old thing really. Fast car, someone points out it's a bit daft because you can't drive it properly and still be safe, petrol heads come out saying you can drive as fast as you want because we're all driving gods. Or they should be allowed to drive as fast as they want, because they're great. Or anyone who thinks they are great should be allowed to drive fast and overtake queues of 5 cars.

I shan't bother then, they never listen to me when I tell them how it should really be done 🙄

Think a STW go karting league/champs would settle all driving god claims, whose in? 😉

Me 🙂

molgrips - Member
Me

Who'll come last because he doesn't overtake whilst waiting for the driving Gods to crash and die in a flaming ball of Castrol R......

I bet I wouldn't come last 🙂

The idea of a Kart race is to go fast, come first and have fun Molgrips, not to draft a fat guy to get the best mpg over the course of the day whilst lecturing everyone on how much better you are than them.

jimjam - Member
The idea of a Kart race is to go fast, come first and have fun Molgrips, not to draft a fat guy to get the best mpg over the course of the day whilst lecturing everyone on how much better you are than them.

Driving fast on a track great idea, best place to do it.