[Closed] Vw emissions recall reality on problems after fix?

Some say yes, some say no.

Who knows....?

Our Ibiza has the 2.0 TDi 140bhp version. I've taken the "if it ain't broke...." approach and not had it done.

I had my 2.0 Audi done and apart from a perceived difference in fuel consumption by 1 or 2 there were no other issues over the next 6000 mile.

Some stories about of cars going into limp mode, not sure they have been verified. If I had an affected car I would NOT be taking it in for any "fix"

not taken my golf in - same engine as seat of stumpys

have heard of a couple of local issues with the fix but theres a lot of conflicting reports. again, "if it aint broke..."

Lots of stuff on R4 about this. Lots of EGR burn outs as they appear to work much harder after the recall.

I got the letter last week calling in my 2.0 140tdi Superb in for the software fix.

I shan't be getting it done, it runs absolutely fine and as I'm selling it in the next few weeks of rather leave it up to the next owner to decide if they want it done.

Another firmly in the "if it ain't broke..." camp

Had our tiguan done, still runs ok, had an issue pop up a couple of days later that was sorted at no cost luckily, but just received a letter yesterday saying that if any issues with anything to do with emissions will be sorted by vw as long as its been serviced by vw.

[i]are they reliable after the upgrade?[/i]

Passat done months ago. Exactly the same as it was before: Trouble free.
(Not a high mileage user)

I was in my local Skoda dealer last week. The other guy at reception waiting area had his Yeti in for Skoda to try and find the cause of the drastic loss of power post "fix." Described it as MPG down 10% and power noticeably down. Reduced to 1st gear on some sections of the (admittedly steep in places) Loch Ard to Inversnaid Road. A regular drive done with no issues pre fix.

My 13 plate Caddy went in, absolutely fine.

My mate's 13 plate Caddy went in, EGR bust, had the van in for 4 weeks and still couldn't fix it. Told them to buy it off him.

VW have a clause of 'goodwill' in the upgrade contract. Which bascially means if you get an engine failure not long after they implement it, they'll fix it.

From my previous post on the Octavia VRS

My brother also has an Octavia VRS but an estate. He had his emmissions "fixed" and the car is now lacking on power and has gone into limp mode too often for them to dare take it anywhere. The dealers are being as awkward as possible and just giving him the runaround even though he's had his extended warranty letter from Skoda.

I wouldn't put any of my money into a VAG car.

Our skoda dealer as good as told us not to bother

My mate refuses to take his VW in due to these stories of things going wrong

I had my CC fixed in February. Definitely less fuel efficient and less power in the lower gears.

We have a 61 plate Touran 1.6.
Had the fix done in April, and saw no difference in performance or fuel economy.

HOWEVER, you can hear the fan working more to keep the engine cool and in the last 4 weeks it has gone in to limp mode 3 times.
The official stance from VW is that they warranty ALL components of the emission system for 2 years from the date of the software fix (and of course any thing that does fail will have another 2 years warranty if repaired by VW) in their words 'everything from the injectors to the sensors in the exhaust'.

It's currently booked in to go on their diagnostics machine, and if it's a fault to do with the emission update, then they'll cover the cost of the check (£140) and of course do the work FOC.

I asked them how they would know if the EGR valve failure was caused by the fix or just died of natural causes, their response was: as long as there is no obvious external damage to the valve then they class it as warranty.

[i]I know it's the EGR valve because the first time it went in to limp mode I had it checked by a local garage for £28, unfortunately they wiped the fault codes from the memory so I had to wait for it to go again.[/i]

Their service manager told me to not drive the car unless I have break down cover!

MY ADVICE IS DO NOT GET THE UPDATE DONE

I noticed I've gone off of the original question, we are getting the car past it's next MOT and then selling it, because we no longer have faith in the car.
So I definitely wouldn't buy one that's had the update done.

HOWEVER, you can hear the fan working more to keep the engine cool

Interesting. I have a '14 plate Passat 2.0 Bluemotion (company car) which had the upgrade a few months back. I'm convinced the fan is working harder since I had the upgrade done.
I'm not really bothered as the lease is up after Christmas and it'll be going.
Interesting that VAG cars have all but disappeared from our new company car ordering list.. there used to be hundreds of variants across the 4 main brands available.
When I asked our fleet manager about this he said the lease company (Arval) were not buying any VAG cars at the moment due to uncertain future resale values.

the lease company (Arval) were not buying any VAG cars at the moment due to uncertain future resale values.

Possibly as a result of of policies like those reported here

https://www.thelocal.de/20170808/volkswagen-offers-cash-incentives-to-trade-in-old-diesel-cars

As Rickon says, 13 plate Caddy went in for service and the update at the same time. Had it for two years, no problems, but it went into limp mode as I drove it away from the VW garage that did the work. New EGR valve, got it back two and a half weeks later, then failed again the very next day.

Another 10 days and they couldn't fix it, came to a deal on what it was worth and it never came back to me. I dropped some documents in for it this week and they still haven't got it fixed, apparently it's getting another new EGR vale and a new turbo. So that's fun, for them. Fortunately it isn't my problem anymore.

To be fair the garage were fairly good about it, they gave loan vehicle for the four weeks it was in and the work they did didn't cost me anything.

With the benefit of hindsight though, I wouldn't get it done.

Not that they'll care, but its put me off buying a 2nd had VAG

I have 2 of the affected vehicles. One older golf and a newer Passat.

Passat upgraded with fix, but golf not.

The fix can affect the exhaust gas recirculation valve and put the car into limp. Not a an expensive part I am led to believe, but the labour is expensive. My friend who has an A4 suffered for this, but Audi paid for the repair.

I wouldn't touch one second hand as just received a letter from VW saying they will fix the vehicle if it suffers EGR fault within 24 months of fix. So it's cheerio to the Passat in 2 yrs time.

Thanks so the search for a car continues for her

I fail to see the advantage of getting this done. And a risk of big disadvantages. I'm not taking my roomster in.

oh knackers, I've been ignoring the letters for the emissions 'fix' from VW for my 09 Golf but now have a different one for a potential issue with the ABS control unit thermal overload which requires a dealer visit to be checked.

Seeing as these Alan Bstards are probs gonna install the emissions fix even if I tell them not to, probably best to steer clear altogether.

Hmm death by going into limp mode on the motorway or lack of ABS on the B-road. Gotta go somehow eh chaps :/

Mate with an affected A5 was told by VW recently they will cover any resulting issues for 2 years, my view is I still would not take the car in. What happens after 2 years ?

I've given it a miss up to now.

I'm not happy at the thought of pumping out extra pollutants, but, and whilst I don't pretend to be an expert that's not what it does. Driving at 70 in 6th and it's pumping out the same as it ever was, what it does it 'turn the wick down' at certain points in the rev range.

If you've had it done and it broken your car I'm told that a £150 remap will more than fix it.

I joined the litigation against VW about a year ago. The solicitors ran a survey of fellow litigants about the emissions fix. Here is the outcome:

The Volkswagen, Audi, Škoda, and SEAT NOx Emissions Group Litigation

Survey update

Thank you very much to everybody who has responded to the survey. I wanted in this message to update you all as to the results and to ask any of you who have not yet responded, but who intend to do so, if you would not mind completing it now (you may do so by clicking here). The data is very interesting; you may have noticed a substantial amount of press interest in a survey carried out by a Facebook group with only 1,000 members with whom we are in contact. The results of a survey of a much larger sample are statistically more significant.

My intention has been to allow the Transport Select Committee to have access to the anonymised results when it re-forms after the election. I also intend to inform VW’s solicitors and to ask for their clients’ response.

Of particular interest is the information about what the garages themselves are saying. A number of users say that it is being reported to them that cars have failed with words to the effect of: ‘ah yes, that is a known fault’. That phrase ‘known fault’ has repeated itself over a number of responses and has the ring of being in common use. It has also been reported to us that the scale of the difficulties caused is such that that replacement EGR valves are in short supply and that they are almost impossible to get hold of for dealerships.

The most striking of the results we have seen are set out below. The full data can be accessed by clicking [url= https://f.datasrvr.com/fr1/217/58570/VW_-_Survey_Responses.pdf ]here[/url].

7,504 claimants have responded to our survey;
of those, 3,925 owners have experienced a problem with their vehicle;
2,103 owners have experienced instances of reduced fuel efficiency;
526 owners’ vehicles have entered ‘limp mode’ since the fix was applied; and
on 200 occasions, a garage has informed owners that the problems they were experiencing were linked to the ‘fix’.

Our 12 plate Touran was updated and ran fine... it didn't get many short runs mind you. We swapped it for a petrol Golf , our first petrol car for a decade, I had a feeling hassle was on the horizon with the Touran and didn't want to fall fully out of love with VW.

My sister has a 2.0 TDi Scirocco and got the software update done. Yesterday the EGR shat itself so she's booked it into VW after I told her about the extended warranty on emissions system components.
Fingers crossed they sort it FOC!

I had the update done to my Skoda Yeti and a short time later the EGR valve and EGR coolant pump went. Cost me £1700 to fix.
Just this week though I had a letter from Skoda basically telling me to put a complaint in and I'll get my money back.
Work was carried out by Skoda.

If it's Euro 6 you need to budget for the adblue

Pre emissions service 2 top ups in 27,000 mile post service top up every 3,000 miles........

(If its had the emission service you get 6 free top ups but I can't recall if that's for the original owner)

Had it done on wife's Alhambra. Can't tell any difference.

budget for AdBlue

How much are people using?

Our little work van is the only vehicle I use that takes it. We haven't touched it in 2 years.

17L every 4,200 (3,000 miles post emissions service+ 1,200 remaining mileage to empty tank)

Previously it only had partial top ups which totalled ( in the range of 15-20 L) for 27,000 miles

(Not noticed any other changes)

Hmmm we seem to have done 12k miles on whatever to came with out of the factory... better look into that.

Anyone know what the adblue light looks like on a Citroen Bergingo

This was featured on BBC Watchdog a few weeks ago

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1mnPm3grkQ2KhtSbH0BZ5RP/vw

I'm actually looking at a new car right now which was most likely going to be a diesel powered Octavia VRS or a Leon FR estate. Reading some of this I'm not so sure it's a great idea.

Looks like I'll carry on looking at Volvos...

Has anyone had it done on the 1.6 CR TDI engine? I've got one in my Fabia and had been putting it off.

Had my '64 plate Yeti (2.0 TDI, 110 bhp) done when it got serviced just before Christmas. Only issue noted was a slight drop in mpg - less than 10% drop - over the first couple of tanks of diesel, which I put down to the ECU going through the adaption cycle again. Fuel consumption back to where it was previously within a couple of tanks of diesel, and it's racked up another 12,000 miles without issue in the meantime.

I bought a Passat that had the update done, no problems (2.0L Bluemotion)

My Yeti has been done. 2.0 Tdi 4x4 140 Bhp or was. Noticeable lack of torque at the bottom end. More re gens of DPF than before. Ergo EGR valve having to work a lot harder. Over 1700 rpm it's ok.I'm running mine on BP ultimate and shell V power so the symptoms may be worse on standard fuel. I'm not keeping mine after 3yr warranty runs out. The later 150 bhp manifold in head engine is much better.

Is this fix not mandatory and owners at risk of prosecution if they continue to drive the car on public roads after a certain time has elapsed (to allow for the fix)?

Obviously VW should compensate owners for loss in value, lower performance, inconveniences, risk of prosecution etc.

I actually suspect the answer to my question is in theory yes, but in practice highly unlikely....which seems typical of how little regard is giving to enforcing regulations designed to protect people*. As is coming to light it's rife in the construction industry, why not elsewhere?

*I say that slightly tongue in cheek, as the supposed protection offered by such regulations could be none existent in reality

There's no legal obligation to get the fix, no VED implication if you dont either. Having the fix is a wholly daft exercise so that VW can say theyve "done something".

There is no way in hell Im letting them near my 2.0l Passat Blue motion.

The car's a pain in the arse as it is, if it started lunching EGRs Id be mighty pissed off.

Had our golf 'rectified' a couple of months ago. Fuel consumption seems to have risen and little and it's now sprung a coolant leak from a location suspiciously close to the EGR valve I think (rear of the engine in the middle).
In hindsight I'd have not had the work done.

2014 Passat Alltrack here - not a sniff of difference after the fix. Perhaps I hear the fan working more often, or maybe it's my imagination. I find the extended warranty on all fuel injection components quite reassuring.

I'm actually looking at a new car right now which was most likely going to be a diesel powered Octavia VRS or a Leon FR estate. Reading some of this I'm not so sure it's a great idea.

Surely new cars are OK, as the problems apply to those which have had the fix applied retrospectively?

There's no legal obligation to get the fix, no VED implication if you dont either. Having the fix is a wholly daft exercise so that VW can say theyve "done something".

Exactly, if it's just type approval then the regulations are to permit sale of the goods within a region. Completely separate to compliance with regs during use.

I'm actually looking at a new car right now which was most likely going to be a diesel powered Octavia VRS or a Leon FR estate. Reading some of this I'm not so sure it's a great idea.

Surely new cars are OK, as the problems apply to those which have had the fix applied retrospectively?

I meant new to me as in 2nd hand.

Just worry about ending up with a 'problem child' after the 'fix' has been done and the previous owner punted on due to having continuous issues...might just be me being overly paranoid

HOWEVER, you can hear the fan working more to keep the engine cool

Same here. No other issues with our Seat Altea XL 140 so far for about a year and 15000miles.

There is no way in hell Im letting them near my 2.0l Passat Blue motion.

there should be another option where you don't get the fix but just get the 'blue' badge removed. And compensation for loss of resale value, although maybe not until the point of resale.

The fan going, especially after switching off, is normally a sign of DPF regen.

[quote=hot_fiat ]I joined the litigation against VW about a year ago. The solicitors ran a survey of fellow litigants about the emissions fix. Here is the outcome:

Self reporting survey - I expect there was a significantly higher response rate from those who've had problems. I'm not suggesting there isn't a problem, simply that you can't get any reliable stats from the survey.

[quote=Stoner ]Possibly as a result of of policies like those reported here
> https://www.thelocal.de/20170808/volkswagen-offers-cash-incentives-to-trade-in-old-diesel-cars
br />

I particular like the way as part of an initiative supposedly for environmental reasons you get more discount on a Touareg than on an Up 😆

One of the indicators on the side mirrors stopped working after I had the fix on my Passat.
I blame the fix.
Or it might've been when I clipped a signpost, but more likely the fix eh.

Had ours done 140bhp passat cc. No noticeable change but I have had a letter from VW effectively extending the warranty on the engine for 2 more years.

I have a 2.0 TDI golf. In a sad geeky sort of way, I keep a note of mileage per tank (don't mock the afflicted) and can't see any change in mpg. Happy to send you the numbers but n=1, etc.

Some of the other engines had different fixes I think (software only in the 2.0), pretty sure the 1.6 needed new injectors. I guess you could always get it remapped at the local boy racers tuning place?

Lots of EGR burn outs as they appear to work much harder after the recall.

What? I don't understand that.

What is an EGR burn out? An EGR valve is a mechanical valve operated by a servo. It can open by varying amounts. They fail when the mechanism breaks. The pipe can get clogged with oily residue and soot. What is a burnout? And how does an EGR work 'hard'? More EGR (which you'd expect from something like this ) would simply mean the valve sitting slightly further open than previously, which would not put any extra stress on the mechanism.

More re gens of DPF than before. Ergo EGR valve having to work a lot harder.

Again - what?

There are plenty of complaints on Briskoda about the fix. Maybe they are imagining it too
https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/436939-nox-software-update/?tab=comments#comment-4915456

Bit of a bump, had my VW Amarok done around 12 months ago and now I'm having EGR/DPF issues, engine management light coming on and periodically going into limp mode.

Have to wait until the 4th of December if I want a courtesy vehicle at VW (which I need).

The EGR cap is filling with condensation causing the electrics to throw a wobbler. Whilst I wait to get it back to VW I'm having to clean the cap out every few days. Can't be 100% certain the failure is linked to the update but I wish I hadn't had it done now.

Got the letter in last week for my 63 plate caddy, decided not to bother, hard to sort the wheat from the chaff with the various horror stories mind.

Can't say I'll be getting it done (1.6 Yeti). Its due a service and i normally use my Skoda dealer...my concern is theyll just do the fix whilst its in for a service

I had my 1.6tdi Jetta done last year and there’s absolutely no difference in anything other than it’s definitely heavier on diesel now . I phoned vw a few months ago to report it and the reply was “ it probably just seems like it’s using more “ 🙄

@Bluearsedfly

If you're not aware VW have written to at least some car owners, me included, to say there's a goodwill programme running on emissions fix cars for dpf/EGR issues. Just in case dealer hasn't made you aware.

I'm not sure if molgrips was questioning the grammar/logic or the source of the reported issues but...

The fix on the 2.0 cars as I recall it being described by VW was that the engine management was altered to change the use of the EGR valve.

As I understand it the valve now opens and shuts more frequently and makes more adjustments to it's position. This presumably means the servo is doing more operations, more regularly and I guess when part open the valve mechanism might be under higher strain. As a result there are rumours of EGR valves failing early.

As my understanding goes, the purpose of increased opening of the EGR is to raise the combustion temperature and thus reduce NOx, the by-product of which is (you guessed it) more soot.

More soot means the DPF needs to regenerate more often to convert soot to ash. From a driver's perspective I'd say you can experience 3 types of regen:

1) a passive regeneration

This occurs at a road speed of about 40mph+ and is largely unnoticeable unless you have the range showing on the trip computer or are hyper sensitive to things like throttle response and engine note.

2) an active regeneration

This happens where the engine hasn't been able to do what it needs to passively - characterised by the car holding gears a lot longer (DSG) (especially round town), stinking, idling fast and sounding like a bag of spanners. If you switch off halfway through the fans run on for ages. Also the start-stop stops working.

3) a light on regeneration

This is where 1&2 have failed and the car tells you to go blast the crap out on the motorway for 30 minutes. In practice i think it's just telling you to let it finish a number 2 type of regen.

There's a fourth type done in the workshop I think by using a diagnostic tool programme or similar.

Post fix my car does (seems to do) a lot more of 1 and a fair bit more of 2. I never get to 3 because it gets a minimum of a good traffic free 20 mile+ run 4 or 5 times a week plus one or two longer empty road stints.

It's particularly prone to 2 if driving a long way in or out of a big town at low speed even in light traffic as it's not generating the steady heat of a sustained run.

Then we get to the more soot leads to more ash leads to shorter life of the DPF.

Apologies if any technical experts can find fault in that (it's intended as a layman's summary) but that's based on the reading around the fix that I've done and what the emissions fix letter from VW told people with my engine.

After ignoring umpteen letters from skoda about the recall the latest letter has a tick box section yes or no and a prepaid return envelope.
Perhaps they will leave me alone now.

Hi garage-dweller, yes I'm aware of that thanks hence why I'm waiting to get it back to VW.

I mentioned the 'goodwill' gesture when booking it in, it was replied to with a lot of ummms and ahhhhs.

I'll wait until I have their brand new T6 and they have my knackered Amarok before I start playing hard ball 🙂

Fwiw I do around 20,000 miles a year and like to make progress.

I'd have thought my EGR/DPF would have ample opportunity to sort themselves out.

My father had his Tiguan 2.0 TDI done, after less than 12 months it was playing up, ECU light on etc. Went to a local garaged (as the car was out of warranty) who advised it was likely the EGR valve at fault and it was a pretty expensive job. They told him to take it back to VW which he duly did. They have replaced the EGR valve under warranty (2 years on update from date of modifications according the the service guy at the local VW dealer). Apparently they have updated the EGR valve to prevent this failure occurring.

Got rid of MIL’s 1.6 bluemotion Passat tonight. Full VW service history, 29k miles, just over 3 years old.
Was going to France for the summer so had it serviced and ‘emissions done’ at VW before departing. Turbo shat itself in France a few days after arrival - €2k estimate. AA repatriated it- VW repaired.

Thanks garage-dweller. More EGR means *reduced* combustion temperature and lower NOx. It is certainly plausible that they would have increased EGR, but as I understand it the valve stays partly open often anyway. However this alone wouldn't cause a loss of power because when you floor it the valve shuts anyway.

Wonder what else it does.

*reduced* combustion temperature and lower NOx. It is certainly plausible that they would have increased EGR,

Doh 😳 - yes sorry. I think you're right with reduced not increased. I blame a late night brain fart on my part! Leaving aside my backwards brain the original emissions fix letter I had specifically said increased use of EGR. It's also mentioned in the goodwill letters that VW have sent to owners.

Bit of a bump, had my VW Amarok done around 12 months ago and now I'm having EGR/DPF issues, engine management light coming on and periodically going into limp mode.

Have to wait until the 4th of December if I want a courtesy vehicle at VW (which I need).

The EGR cap is filling with condensation causing the electrics to throw a wobbler. Whilst I wait to get it back to VW I'm having to clean the cap out every few days. Can't be 100% certain the failure is linked to the update but I wish I hadn't had it done now.

As it stands my Amarok has been sat at VW since the 4th of December waiting for parts and VW are saying it won’t be covered under their ‘good will’ warranty.

I’m waiting until it’s ready for collection before I tell them where to shove their £970 invoice.

And for the record, the T6 Highline I’ve been driving has to be the most overrated POS ever. I’m due for changing cars next year and won’t be choosing VW again