240hp 1.9? Whoooa - do hope you have uprated your clutch etc. Is that a standard tune VAG?
Who wants to hear a rattly diesel engine on a nice summer's day with the top down?
while a cold Diesel CAN rattle (older ones), once any engine warms up they can have a loverly low purr 😀
complements turbo whistle much better than a whiney petrol. :p
I also don't see the point of a diesel in a sports car. Compared to petrol, diesels are heavier, have slower throttle response and produce torque rather than power.
more laps per litre?
nowt wrong with excess torque, just gear it up.
bwap.
Amazingly I've done 28k on the standard clutch and flywheel without a hint of slippage. All that's done is turbo back exhaust, green panel filter, FMIC, hybrid turbo and custom map oh and water meth injection.
Here's a plot from when I first had it set up, the mapper insisted holding the torque back to preserve the clutch and I had to twist his arm to up it to this, it's also pre h2o/meth which helps it spool up much quicker, and after a few thou of the clutch holding up I insisted on letting the torque rip and if the clutch died I'd replace it.
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What's the standard-tune fabia? 170? It'd be a bigger clutch than 'standard' anyway but bloody ell!
How much did the map/tune cost? You live in the Midlands?
Standard is 130bhp and 228lb/ft on paper but alot of the later BLT engine code cars are producing 150+ standard. Custom mapping was a little over £300 with a mk4 owners forum discount, they did the re-ee-map (bo) for free. I'm in Newport Wales. Some of the guys with the seriously tuned cars are running over 550lb/ft.
while a cold Diesel CAN rattle (older ones), once any engine warms up they can have a loverly low purrcomplements turbo whistle much better than a whiney petrol. :p
Nah I've been in a few diesel convertibles and with the roof down at warm tickover it ain't pleasant
I like diesels in the right application though
You'd enjoy yourself at Legoland. I'd be climbing the walls.
Right. I like the idea, you don't. So it's not wrong, just different.
Easy speed at low revs is what I like, not revving the tits off a petrol. You seem somewhat boyish when it comes to cars, are you sure you wouldn't enjoy Legoland? 😉
produce torque rather than power
D'you actually know the relationship between those two things?
Agree with james. I couldn't stand a diesel mx5 but say a scaled-down 1.5 supercharged petrol YES!
+1 for a VAG remap in a hot hatch. I've got the Ibiza sport, 100ps standard now at 150, goes crazy at about 2500rpm, much more fun to drive than my old mk3 golf gti and easily on a par with my mk2. The noise is OK when you are driving. However I can't deny that its not ideal when you fire it up from cold and hear that tractory rattle...
@hora
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-sram-x0-gripshift-left-hand-3-spd ]Click me[/url]
They do not have the quick smooth throttle response that enables you to control a rear slide in a controlled manner with the same delicacy as a non turbo petrol.
On a public road? Are you nuts?
Agree with james. I couldn't stand a diesel mx5 but say a scaled-down 1.5 supercharged petrol YES!
I was reading an article a little while ago in Autocar, I think, about an outfit who do complete rebuilds of MX-5's, and they featured a late 90's 1.6 that was putting out 220bhp. Turbo, large intercooler, updated brakes, suspension, the works. Complete nose-to-tail rebuild was somewhere around 10k, but they can take the car back every few years and upgrade and improve as technology allows. Lovely little car, and If I had some spare cash I'd pick up a slightly later model with the fixed headlights and let them work their magic. The car in the mag was apparently a total joy to drive.
Oh, I love the hot Fabia, lovely car.
Long distance journeys diesels rock. Every day use petrols ROCK.
O/T: On the gripshift- I just can't get my head around them. Sorry.
Long distance journeys diesels rock. Every day use petrols ROCK.
Not even 8.30 and the first hora bollocks appears.
Not going to get potty-mouthed again are we Drac? 🙄
I too like the hot Fabia above. If only to prove to boring petrol head drones like Hora that diesel doesn't necessarily mean slow 🙂 If I'd had more space I'd have kept my old 1.9 TD Passat and tuned that up 🙂
This isn't an argument about slow and fast molgrips.
I drive a petrol car quite different to a diesel. Its not just the sound. For a start I upshift alot quicker in a diesel. Probably where I am at 3rd gear in a petrol I'd already be upto 5th in a diesel in the same scenario.
Probably where I am at 3rd gear in a petrol I'd already be upto 5th in a diesel in the same scenario.
Hmm. What sort of speed is that? My car does over 100mph in 5th, probably more like 110.
I very much doubt that Hora unless your driving a sports car and I mean a proper one.
No way would I buy a diesel 'sports car' or diesel convertible though just as you'd be silly to buy a V6 2.5 Cmax.
Wrong its a straight 5 as in the Focus ST taken from volvo as in the T5 engine.
Probably where I am at 3rd gear in a petrol I'd already be upto 5th in a diesel in the same scenario.
Thats funny my last manual diesel would do well over 100 in 5th where as the fast petrol megane we have wont go any faster than 80 in third.
You have to drive the cars in very different ways and while all the diesels i have driven have short gears for 1st and 2nd they get much longer after that, longer than any of the petrols i have driven.
Yes, diesel gears are of course much longer after 2nd or so. Big jump between 2nd and 3rd on mine, but in 6th it's 2krpm at 70mph and just over 3krpm at 100mph!
Just goes against a roadster principle for me - I like them to be simple as possible, light as possible, and have cracking handling - Elise S1 or Elan style, Mk1 MX5 etc .. and bouncing them off the rev limiter is part of the experience.
I'm sure you could build an equally fast diesel - but sometimes it's just not the point. Part of the fun of owning a roadster is having the option to take it apart a bit yourself for me.
Both are great in their applications.
The sound, you can't beat a decent petrol engine- **** mpg. One life, live it.
The sound, you can't beat a decent petrol engine- **** mpg. One life, live it.
So when are you getting your Diesel?
Aaaah, the likkle car drivers cry cos they can't get their special sound, ahhh bless em
Probably where I am at 3rd gear in a petrol I'd already be upto 5th in a diesel in the same scenario
Thats funny my last manual diesel would do well over 100 in 5th where as the fast petrol megane we have wont go any faster than 80 in third.
Isn't that totally missing hora's point???
Your diesel might do 120 in 5th, but you'll probably already be in 5th at 30...
... whereas in a petrol you might hang on in 3rd until the redline, perhaps somewhere around 70 or so 😉
Try the gearing on the 107/C1/Aygo- I got a hire 107 upto 5mph in 2nd 😀
One life, live it.
LOL!
This is a mountain bike forum full of people with all sorts of fascinating lifestyles and hobbies, and you think the measure of whether or not they are living their lives depends on the fuel they choose for their car? Any idea how ridiculous that sounds? 🙂
FWIW if you want to live life through a motor vehicle you can scare yourself just as much in any fast car. Haggling over torque curves is pathetic.
Your diesel might do 120 in 5th, but you'll probably already be in 5th at 30...
What? Diesels are geared longer, so you COULD be in 5th at 30 if you want, but you don't have to be. Plus, in 5th at 30 it will still pull away nicely, reducing the need to be rumaging around in the gearbox all the time.
It's all about driving style. At the end of the day, if you're a boy racer and you want to thrash the tits of your engine then petrol is for you. However, roadster driving does not have to be like that, does it? Making progress on a windy road with the top down can be a relaxing passtime, where a diesel would excel.
Would anyone like me to find out at what speeds the limiter kicks in for each gear on my car? Are you that interested in truth? 🙂
you think the measure of whether or not they are living their lives depends on the fuel they choose for their car? Any idea how ridiculous that sounds?
Even more so when he's owned diesels and is waiting for another.
He's suggesting just that the ban they will start using diesel meant for cars, ignoring the fact there's other marine diesel fuel options.
Basicaly the problem is............
HFO is a niche product, they don't sell much of it, most of it gets used in the refinery for stuff like distilation (via steam generation).
The cost of upgrading it to meet a lower sulphur limit would be prohibitive, as the heavier the fuel the higher temperature/pressures required for hydrotreating.
More likely to re-cycle it through the cracker again and turn it into something else. Still not cheep but considerably cheeper than building new equipment. Plenty of refineries already do this and no longer produce HFO for sale.
The problem is there isn't much else that can go into ships economicaly, and its unlikey that anyone will hydrotreat HFO as its cheeper to use FGD and burn it in static engines. Current thoughts are ships will run on a HFO blended with lower sulphur fuels wilst offshore (limit is IIRC going to be 4.5ppm), switching to diesel within the more stringent areas (english channel, north sea, irish sea, north american coast).
Right, well what are the relative volumes? How much diesel will be taken out of the market?
Your diesel might do 120 in 5th, but you'll probably already be in 5th at 30...
No not really 4th at most and at 30 if holding the gears and accelerating then 2nd before changing to 3rd at 40. Unless you regulary like to thrash you cars then you wouldn't be in second at 60 more like 20 and then changing up to 3rd shortly after that.
Diesels allow you to drive along feisty roads with only a few gear changes where as in a petrol you will be using a simillar amount of revs just a lot higher up.
Diesels allow you to drive along feisty roads with only a few gear changes
That is certainly my experience.
Diesels are geared longer, so you COULD be in 5th at 30 if you want, but you don't have to be. Plus, in 5th at 30 it will still pull away nicely, reducing the need to be rumaging around in the gearbox all the time.
That's precisely what I said... 🙄
ie, I was pointing out that in a diesel you were likely to have short shifted to use the torque available at low revs
Right, well what are the relative volumes? How much diesel will be taken out of the market?
If shipping was a country it would emit more CO2 than Japan (the 6th largest emitter).
Imagine a country the size of Japan suddenly going form using negligable diesel to using it for everything from heating their houses to Blast Furnaces.
That's precisely what I said...
You seemed to be saying that you would have to be in 5th at 30. Which would be silly
Don't 🙄 me!
Imagine a country the size of Japan suddenly going form using negligable diesel to using it for everything from heating their houses to Blast Furnaces.
Hmm.. seems to me that 'they' won't let the price of diesel suddenly triple. World economy would collapse!
Molgrips and drac you are trolls and I claim my £5.
no, it wont be quite that dramatic, but they have been a user of the cheap residue, now thats banned it will push the price of diesel up. Even if the ammout of diesel goes up by aproximately the ammount of HFO thats not used it's still an expensive process to convert it, and that cost will be spread over all diesel users. The same way as prices spike over the winter as lots of people use diesel type fuels for heating.
I think some people here are missing the point of a VW sports car with a diesel. Just think about the average buyer of this type of car and the type of driving they actually do. The words 'sunday' and 'driver' spring to mind.
For the majority of people who will buy a car like this, a current diesel will serve their needs pretty damn well.
I also think half the people in this thread who are knocking the concept, haven't actually driven a current generation diesel engine.
Is this the VW BlueSport that they punted round the shows last year? Quite like the sound of a 1000kg car with 300lb/ft of torque.
It's like people who say that saving 1lb from your bike won't make you go faster - assuming (still) that all people are interested in is timing their personal best up a climb - when that's clearly not what most of us do.
Likewise a diesel roadster might not be the ultimate finely tuned performance beast, but that's just not the point of this car.
I reckon saving 1lb from your arse would make you go faster than on your bike anyway 🙂
Yes but ultimate speed isn't the point, that is what I am saying. Unless you are a roadie 🙂
Forest of Boland(sp?) has some amazing roads- I wouldn't want to drive an Eos TDI around there
I would.
Out of interest, if you come across a nice windy road in the countryside do you drive it flat out on the red line the whole time?
No but I love changing gear. On some country roads you have to drop down alot- which isn't pleasant in a diesel. Diesels IMO thrive in smoother scenarios I.e cruising, swift progress and smooth and hassle-free overtaking manouvers with no resulting drama.
Petrol = balls to the wind in addition to smooth
On some country roads you have to drop down alot- which isn't pleasant in a diesel
Yeah but the point is you don't need to in a diesel. I like that, and I like the smoothness. A roadster for me would be about smoothness not outright speed. I do get the point about working through the gears but that's all too hectic for me. And if I were redlining a car with more than a very modest amount of power I'd be quickly frustrated on a public road.
In reality I would enjoy an MX5 or similar but I can't justify the fuel consumption. I'd love a Honda CR-Z mind 🙂
Good to have an amicable discussion on the subject at last tho 🙂
