Most electric cars are getting bigger and heavier !
Huge vehicles with little space inside. The big Teslas are very popular and wrong for everything in the UK.
We could all buy Citroen Ami’s for the same price as an ebike.
Some laws need changing to support this. Again, not going to come from this government. Would love something like an Ami as a second car for our household… if we lived over the other side of the channel we’d have one today.
Volvo recently published its global sales figures for the first half of 2023, revealing that its most popular car – an SUV – outsold its entire saloon and estate range by a margin of nearly 70%.
The S90 was the most popular of the now-discontinued cars, with 23,000 sales over the six-month period. The S60 accounted for 18,000 and the V60 just over 16,000. The V90, however, notched up just 7100.
The best-selling Volvo XC60, meanwhile, sold 106,000, remaining hugely popular even in its sixth year on sale.
Figures don't lie unfortunately. I am also in the estate rather than SUV camp, so unhappy with the way things are headed 😔
Oh dear, how sad, unfortunetly 1980s car choices arent coming back. Time to adapt and move on.
Huge vehicles with little space inside. The big Teslas are very popular and wrong for everything in the UK.
I don't disagree with anything on the thread, estates are way better than SUV's but you're wrong about Teslas. There's loads of space in them. They're one of the few EV's that are a true skateboard drivetrain with a shell on top. The model 3 & Y boots are massive, there's zero intrusion in the cabin from any drivetrain, it's all space & storage and don't forget there's another boot at the front.
I know people don't like Tesla's for lots of reasons, but not having interior space is way off the mark.
...if only Jim Ratcliffe would come along and rescue a car model no one wants anymore!! 🙂
I suspect that when we are all on EVs and buyers realise they can get a good chunk of extra range for free, saloons will start to come back.
Vw are bringing out an iD7 which is basically an electric Passat with a bit more iD4 styling (more's the pity), and there will apparently be an estate version.
On Radio 4 recently they were saying that the date of 2030 for stop of sale of diesel cars may well be put back to 2035.
Was that yesterday? I think it was actually the interviewer suggesting they should push back 2030 because Uxbridge apparently means the public love hydrocarbons again. The point made in rsponse was that 1. ICE cars sold up to 2030 will still be on the road and saleable on the used market and 2030 is only a ban on ICE vehicles, not Hybrids, you'll still be able to buy a V8 but it will have to have a little leccy motor on the end of the driveshaft...
2030 isn't a cliff edge, don't get tricked into culture war Eco-hysteria by desperate Tories...
Most electric cars are getting bigger and heavier !
Yeah I just want a Zoe/Leaf which would easily cover 85-90% of what my family needs, the handful of 200mile+ mile journeys with luggage we do each year doesn't necessarily require some huge range thing with a monster battery (that will degrade with age)...
For anyone wondering if the human race will step up to the plate and make the necessary sacrifices to defeat global warming this announcement tells you everything you need to know.😬
Yes people should stop buying SUVs, particularly the ones that sells in high volumes, your typical 1.3t 1.0t amd 1.5t small/medium SUVs. Instead they should buy estates but only the 2t RS6 with its huge emissions.
Why can't they just buy the
typical 1.3t 1.0t amd 1.5t small/medium
estates instead?
Ah, not fashionable enough, or rufty tufty enough to go "off road", and of course, SUVs are *much* safer /s
The model 3 & Y boots are massive
Maybe. But by “big Teslas” I meant the X that people I know keep buying. Huge super heavy things, with doors so thick they could be the walls of a house, a low ceiling, middle seat that doesn’t fold, etc. It’s like having a van with the space of a car. Plenty of electric and hybrid estates that impress more for using in day to day UK life for most folks… but that just look normal rather than a “statement”.
Agreed but Tesla stopped selling that model over two years ago.
You just take a LHD one.
Anyway… the fashion is for very big very heavy electric cars in the UK… for now… let’s hope that changes.
The latest Volvo saloon is lovely too.
Do they make a small diesel van? No? Don't care then.
Why can’t they just buy the
typical 1.3t 1.0t amd 1.5t small/medium
estates instead?
Ah, not fashionable enough, or rufty tufty enough to go “off road”, and of course, SUVs are *much* safer /s
Why can't they just buy the SUV version if they prefer it?
Different people like different things.
Or maybe they should buy estates because a geezer on tinternet doesn't agree, even if they don't care about fashion. As for safety, strawman much?
Yes people should stop buying SUVs, particularly the ones that sells in high volumes, your typical 1.3t 1.0t amd 1.5t small/medium SUVs. Instead they should buy estates but only the 2t RS6 with its huge emissions.
The D4 V90 I had did 55mpg+ on a long motorway runs. I expect you’d struggle to hit 40mpg in the heavier less aero XC90. It’s been discussed to death but for a like for like interior space you’ll be burning more fuel / co2 in a SUV than a similar sized saloon/estate. I also saw a statistic that pedestrians are 8 times more likely to be killed if you are hit by and suv vs a normal car.
@Scotroutes #noVolvoforsale? As in Hector Brocklebank of HB Fash fame :o)
I also saw a statistic that pedestrians are 8 times more likely to be killed if you are hit by and suv vs a normal car.
That was from the USA for SUV/pickups so not sure how well it translates to the UK. Since their idea of suvs pretty much start with range rovers are a bit petite.
It’s a sad state of affairs when options are being more and more limited to SUVs. It is all down to supply and profit margins….and SUVs have a much higher profit margin.
Folk are buying fewer cars at the moment due to inflation/cost of living. Parts have been harder to get hold of, so manufacturers prioritise the higher profit models. So if they’re going to sell anything, they’ll prioritise SUVs and try to convince folk that’s what they need. For some unknown reason, folk have fallen for the sales-pitch. If a car is perceived to be higher status the bigger it is, it allows for lazy engineering, if compact size and low weight are no longer critical requirements…
I followed a new Merc SUV the other day and couldn’t believe how big it was…like something in the US! The Audi Q-whatever is like a battle cruiser and way too big for our roads.
Manufacturers should be encouraged to produce lightweight, compact models, whether that’s EV or ICE. I can’t see how that doesn’t make sense on all levels.
I am so sad the Fiesta has gone. That’s all the car 90% of us need, really. It’s SUV counterpart is, frankly, horrific.
A current shape S or V90 is a rare sight but I see no end of current XC90s. Same for the *60s. I don’t think the Geely era saloons and estates appeal much to traditional Volvo buyers and those shapes of car are in steep decline anyway.
I suspect that when we are all on EVs and buyers realise they can get a good chunk of extra range for free, saloons will start to come back.
The range on a model 3 vs model x is within 5% of each other. The additional frontal area is counteracted by the more slippery shape
5lab
Full Member
I suspect that when we are all on EVs and buyers realise they can get a good chunk of extra range for free, saloons will start to come back.The range on a model 3 vs model x is within 5% of each other. The additional frontal area is counteracted by the more slippery shape
Unless I'm missing something, it looks like the 74kwh model 3 range is 322 miles
The 75kwh model x range was 237 miles
Put another way the model 3 achieves 16.8kwh/100km, the model x achieves 20.8kwh/100km.
I really struggle to understand the appeal of SUVs beyond the zero sum game of buying a higher up car so you can see over the person in the big car in front of you.
It's mostly a status thing.
I know people don’t like Tesla’s for lots of reasons, but not having interior space is way off the mark
It’s the only thing. Their build quality is poor, they’ve lied about the range… There’s no way I’d buy a Tesla, or any EV as the technology stands right now. Or the prices, for that matter. It’s been pointed out over the last couple of days that not only is the charging infrastructure inadequate, the power supplies are also inadequate, half the chargers don’t have sufficient capacity to cope with current demand.
When there’s a good supply of solid-state batteries which can provide a reliable range of 6-700 miles on a charge, which doesn’t drop to bugger-all in cold weather, please get back to me, ‘cos I might be interested.
I really struggle to understand the appeal of SUVs beyond the zero sum game of buying a higher up car so you can see over the person in the big car in front of you.
It’s mostly a status thing.
What, a Ford Kuga, or a Qashqai, or a Honda CR-X? Seriously? Bollocks. Perhaps with big Range Rovers, Audi Q7’s, etc, but the status thing applies to their cars too. Our population is getting older, older people like cars they can easily get in and out of, and see around them. There’s maybe an eight or nine inch height difference, but the higher seating position makes a huge difference! I’ve driven hundreds, I’ve also driven hundreds of sports and saloon/estate cars, and when I decided it was time to replace my elderly Octavia, I bought an EcoSport, with a 1.0 petrol instead of a 1.9 diesel. It’s a far easier car to get in and out of, and it’s great fun to drive. I honestly can’t think of another car I’d replace it with, except perhaps a Puma ST, which is only marginally bigger. And a bit quicker.
My partner, for a number of reasons, would only sit in the back of my Octavia, and even then she’d have panic attacks; in the EcoSport, because of the higher seats, she was perfectly relaxed and comfortable, it’s comfort for the greater majority of car buyers, status only matters to those who feel they have some sort of superiority complex they need to have everyone else acknowledge.
Quite sad... Give me a v90 t8 with the upgraded Bower and Wilkins sound system any day of the week over a Chelsea tractor.
design defects in the EcoBoost engine.
I've always thought that a tiny capacity turbo charged engine + Ford was a bad idea, it'll be on high boost all the time to make the thing move at a semi-reasonable pace. That can't be good for longevity.
That can’t be good for longevity.
Why not? Pretty sure my engine is on boost all the time.
Why not? Pretty sure my engine is on boost all the time.
Our V70 Volvo with the 2.4l 5cylinder non turbo engine has done 201k miles. Its unstressed at 140hp. Only ever had timing belts and I had to clean it's cam timing advance solenoid a few months ago.
I also have a Volvo D5 engine in a XC90 with 215k miles. That's getting new lifter's & rockers but is otherwise like new.
No way are these 1l highly stressed engines going to see 200k+ miles.
Unless I’m missing something, it looks like the 74kwh model 3 range is 322 miles
The 75kwh model x range was 237 milesPut another way the model 3 achieves 16.8kwh/100km, the model x achieves 20.8kwh/100km.
My bad I meant the 3 and the y (which are equivalent to each other in other ways)
I meant the X that people I know keep buying. Huge super heavy things, with doors so thick they could be the walls of a house, a low ceiling, middle seat that doesn’t fold, etc. It’s like having a van with the space of a car
TBH I doubt they will now as Tesla has cancelled the RHD version of this and a lhd in U.K. is meh.
I’ve always thought that a tiny capacity turbo charged engine + Ford was a bad idea, it’ll be on high boost all the time to make the thing move at a semi-reasonable pace. That can’t be good for longevity.
I suppose it depends on the quality of the engineering and materials but it’s just an engine with a turbo.
I doubt if ford care if it’s actually working 5-10 years down the line.
I really struggle to understand the appeal of SUVs beyond the zero sum game of buying a higher up car so you can see over the person in the big car in front of you.
It’s mostly a status thing.
No it is not at all. As I have said they have a much more practical load space. They are also easier to get in and out of. The higher driving position allows you to see over more hedges etc. Our SUV with a 2.0 petrol engine was more economical and way faster than our 3 cylinder 990cc eco Ford Fiesta.
I also saw a statistic that pedestrians are 8 times more likely to be killed if you are hit by and suv vs a normal car.
And you didn't question the statement - FFS do some critical thinking.
So a vehicle the same width & weight as another but slightly taller yet it's 8 times more likely to kill a pedestrian - yeah, that works...
When there’s a good supply of solid-state batteries which can provide a reliable range of 6-700 miles on a charge, which doesn’t drop to bugger-all in cold weather, please get back to me, ‘cos I might be interested.
How many folk on here actually drive more than 200 miles on any given day in a week, bet it's a small minority.
mattyfez
I’ve always thought that a tiny capacity turbo charged engine + Ford was a bad idea, it’ll be on high boost all the time to make the thing move at a semi-reasonable pace. That can’t be good for longevity.
Intuitively it seems like that would be the case. In reality the vast majority of issues are related to the wet belt (cam belt that runs in oil).
There are two main issues
1, it's extremely expensive to replace and requires special tools that back street garages don't have so you are stuck taking it to a main dealer
2, if you either miss an oil change, the oil gets polluted, or the wrong grade of oil is used, the wet belt can begin to fray. The loose threads end up blocking the oil channels resulting in damage to the turbo, bearings etc.
Note - the current version of the EcoBoost engine has done away with the wet belt
Volvo recently published its global sales figures for the first half of 2023, revealing that its most popular car – an SUV – outsold its entire saloon and estate range by a margin of nearly 70%.
Nothing unusual there, Kia's best selling model is their Sportage SUV, has been their #1 model for years.
intheborders
Free Member
I also saw a statistic that pedestrians are 8 times more likely to be killed if you are hit by and suv vs a normal car.And you didn’t question the statement – FFS do some critical thinking.
So a vehicle the same width & weight as another but slightly taller yet it’s 8 times more likely to kill a pedestrian – yeah, that works…
The report seems credible, read it yourself link in the road.cc article
https://road.cc/content/news/suvs-8-times-more-dangerous-kids-walking-or-cycling-295527?amp
As for the higher rate, could be several reasons.
1. Extra size making it harder to judge position. 2. Extra width making passing more difficult
3. Extra weight - more energy transferred to victim
4. Extra weight - worse stopping distance
5. Greater isolation from outside, reducing awareness
6. Sense of entitlement of suv drivers causing dehumanisation of cyclists/ peds
7. Extra height of front area meaning children’s heads are going to be hit here rather than their legs being hit and their heads hitting the softer bonnet designed to absorb energy.
8. Often more gadgets to distract drivers
9. Height causing blind spots lower down where it makes it more difficult to see small children.
10. Safety aspect (for driver) tends to attract more incompetent drivers who may have had multiple previous accidents in the past and decided they need an SUV in case they have more.
Just a few ideas, I’m sure there are more
Just a few ideas, I’m sure there are more
So how do you explain the fact that pedestrian deaths have dropped nearly 50% between 2004 and 2021despite the massive rise in SUVs and the overall size and weight of cars in general?
So a vehicle the same width & weight as another but slightly taller yet it’s 8 times more likely to kill a pedestrian – yeah, that works…
Higher grill, often squarer, more likely to hit a pedestrian in the chest or a child in the head. Lower saloon or hatchback, the pedestrian is hit in the legs and thrown over the bonnet.
So how do you explain the fact that pedestrian deaths have dropped nearly 50% between 2004 and 2021despite the massive rise in SUVs and the overall size and weight of cars in general?
dunno, maybe it’s kids get ferried everywhere in SUVs rather than walking nowadays? Either way if there is a drop it’s still independent of the greater deaths from SUVs in that report.
I do like that people are trying to justify its better to hit a child in a saloon car than an SUV.
I would prefer it if people just didnt hit children at all and learned to drive properly rather than make pathetic excuses
FunkyDunc
Free Member
I do like that people are trying to justify its better to hit a child in a saloon car than an SUV.I would prefer it if people just didnt hit children at all and learned to drive properly rather than make pathetic excuses
Accidents happen, sometimes it’s not the drivers fault. If a kid runs out in front of you, you have a better chance of taking evasive action or stopping in a lighter more nimble car with a lower center of gravity vs a big heavy wallowy SUV. If you do then hit them it will be worse in an SUV for the reasons mentioned.
1. Extra size making it harder to judge position. 2. Extra width making passing more difficult
3. Extra weight – more energy transferred to victim
4. Extra weight – worse stopping distance
5. Greater isolation from outside, reducing awareness
6. Sense of entitlement of suv drivers causing dehumanisation of cyclists/ peds
7. Extra height of front area meaning children’s heads are going to be hit here rather than their legs being hit and their heads hitting the softer bonnet designed to absorb energy.
8. Often more gadgets to distract drivers
9. Height causing blind spots lower down where it makes it more difficult to see small children.
10. Safety aspect (for driver) tends to attract more incompetent drivers who may have had multiple previous accidents in the past and decided they need an SUV in case they have more.
My OH has a very popular SUV (Kia Sportage) and I've a very popular saloon (BMW 3 series) - the only fundamental difference is that the SUV is slightly taller.
Looking through your list - it's not wider, longer, heavier, quieter or has more gadgets - and I'm pretty sure BMW ownership gives folk a greater sense of "entitlement" than a Kia.
I don't disagree that they may cause more worse outcomes for pedestrians, but that's what regulations are for and up for authorities to ensure they're not - but the accident rates seem to show that vehicles & roads are far safer than they use to be, so maybe that's incorrect too.
Did I also miss your demand to remove vans & trucks from the roads?
Was driving into work beside a C40 today - pretty sure it makes baby Jesus cry
The 8x data is from the us where some SUVs and trucks are truly massive. Most SUVs here are the same size as most cars albeit a little taller, and have gone through the same pedestrian safety tests.
For reference the puma is all of 1 inch taller than the fiesta it replaced. Most of this stuff is styling
