[Closed] Vitamins and supplements

I think living in Scotland, even your time outdoors isn't enough TBH. Glad to hear you've a answer to your worries though.

I believe the "official" advice is for all people in Scotland to take vit D supplements, due to the lack of sunlight & I guess the fact that even when it is sunny it might be cold enough for you to cover up.

So you were wrong, happens to the best of us. There are so many factors dictating whether or not your body may need a little help in certain areas. Lifestyles differ enormously and other factors like age, stress, environment, illness can have an enormous bearing.

I would never have expected to be deficient tho - I eat loads of cheese and oily fish as well as spending time outdoors even if usually dressed for the scottish beach in full winter clothes and woolly hat!. Maybe I am not processing or absorbing it properly.

I thought Vit D was added to iron bru, smack, and Buckfast tonic, with the exact reason of combating this..

You learn something every day.. 😉

DrP

I got tested this week, 131nmol/L 🙂 although aiming for 150. I take 5000UI most days and will start taking 10,000 a couple of times a week. My understanding is that your cells can only produce so much vitamin d (as in not collectively but each) so even if you go out in strong sun if you only have your face uncovered then those cells are rapidly going to hit their limit and you'll create no more vitamin D. The more skin you have showing the more you can produce even if you're out for a lot less time. I think that the period over which sunlight in the UK has enough UVB is also quite short, probably shorter in Scotland too. I'm no expert though!

Over the winter the sun is too low in the sky, so most of the radiation is absorbed in the atmosphere. So even if you are outside every day, you won't be able to make any Vitamin D.

You would need to eat any awful lot of fish to get enough Vitamin D. I don't think milk/cheese contains much, unless it has been fortified.

Wearing a helmet covers up even more of your skin (though TJs luxurious locks probably cover up just as much).

Maybe that Naked Rambler chap was on to something...

chvck

My reading was 15! is 150 not a bit high tho and those supplement levels you are taking are way above the recommended to potentially toxic levels - why so high? Genuinely interested

Not just Scotland, NHS updated guidance UK wide last year on vitamin D
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2016/07July/Pages/The-new-guidelines-on-vitamin-D-what-you-need-to-know.aspx

The new advice from PHE is that adults and children over the age of one should consider taking a daily supplement containing 10mcg of vitamin D, particularly during autumn and winter.
People who have a higher risk of vitamin D deficiency are being advised to take a supplement all year round.
SACN's review concluded that these at-risk groups include people whose skin has little or no exposure to the sun, like those in care homes, or people who cover their skin when they are outside.
People with dark skin, from African, African-Caribbean and South Asian backgrounds, may also not get enough vitamin D from sunlight in the summer. They should consider taking a supplement all year round as well.

My reading was 15! is 150 not a bit high tho and those supplement levels you are taking are way above the recommended to potentially toxic levels - why so high? Genuinely interested

Blimey, 15 really is low! I did my test with BetterYou who say that 75-150nmol/L is optimal. I've begun the overcomingms diet/lifestyle and they recommend MS patients have about 150+, I think that above 225 is considered toxic. I'll be cutting down the dosage quite a lot over Summer I think.

Various drug treatments also lower D levels - I take Tegratol (carbemazepine) which has this effect and I've been advised to take a daily supplement year round. My test came back as borderline low, btw.
I could be imagining it, but i'm sure I have a few less aches and pains since I started taking it (complete lack of scientific data warning!)

What were your symptoms, if it's not too personal a Q?

Living in Norway it is effectively impossible to get enough Vit D through sunlight. And food cannot provide anywhere near enough. Also here many people are very fair skinned so use a lot of suncream and therefore reduce the Vit D production even more.

Almost everyone takes D3 supplements. Common problem here and well known - tiredness, depression and other related ailments are all related to this

There is absolutely huge controversy about vitamin D. There is a very good recent BMJ debate which is worth digging out.

[url= http://www.bmj.com/content/355/bmj.i6201 ]Here is some of it [/url]

The vast majority of people who present with symptoms which might be due to vitamin D deficiency feel absolutely no better after they have received it and do not have altered health outcomes.

There are some exceptions to this, people with recent fractures, osteoporosis and renal problems.

The studies on which recommendations are based are poor. And some things which seem intuitively sensible, like increasing calcium intake with supplements actually increase cardiac risk

So, please, don't everyone flock to your GP seeking a vitamin D test.

I take multivits semi-regularly, just in case of issues like this. Their dosage is pretty conservative.

Maybe I am not processing or absorbing it properly.

Yeah, could be any number of reasons. I don't think these things are fully understood, and even if they were it wouldn't necessarily be worth investigating it in that detail for everyone...

Can you get those daylight lamps that emit enough UVB to help with this?

[quote="chakaping"]

What were your symptoms, if it's not too personal a Q?

All a bit vague and woolly. Tiredness in a funny chronic pattern, sleep disturbance, night sweats are the main ones.

TJ - this honestly sounds like symptoms my Norwegian wife has had for quite some time - after going to the Docs for a check up she found out she was severely deficient in Vit D. She is taking 2400 UI D3 everyday for 3 months and then dropping to 800 UI per day, forever

After a week or so she says she is feeling much better

So, please, don't everyone flock to your GP seeking a vitamin D test

This is what A&E is for... 😉

DrP

so it turns out that if you feed chickens extra vitamin D it ends up in the eggs [url= http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/news/2016/12/sunshineeggs/ ]sunshine eggs[/url]. In case you needed an excuse for a fry up.

I overdose on the stuff........I've got sunshine coming out of my arse.

Cue.....[i]

Bring me Sunshine, in your smile,
Bring me Laughter, all the while,
Let your arms be as warm as the sun from up above,
Bring me fun, bring me sunshine, bring me love.[/i]

At the doctors for completely unrelated issues and she picked up on my Italian heritage (definitely flirting with me 8) ) and said I should be taking Vit D supplements as Mediterraneans don't manufacture enough of their own.

Might be worth a shot, I found some links online (therefore definitely peer reviewed and 100% true) that it could even help with lower back pain somehow, which is funny because around about this time every year I develop lower back pain, which I put down to less walking to work and more spin classes, but maybe it's been lack of Vitamin D all along.

Off to Boots right now to give them all my money 😉

I do get a lot of muscle and joint pain - if the vit D gets rid of this I will be happy indeed

Been taking vit d pills for a couple of winters now , 12 hour shifts and living in Glasgow means I can go 4 days without seeing the sun . I think it has helped me , more awake and no real colds to speak of despite having a 3 year old at nursery .
It's made me think about other supplements but not really sure what I would be lacking , have a reasonably healthy diet , for Glasgow standards anyway

Sure ive seen some breakfast (not to be confused with buckfast) cereals with added d vitamins.

My doctor flagged up Vit D deficiency during some routine blood tests last winter. I now take 10 microgrammes of Vitamin D3 daily during winter and I can definitely feel the difference health-wise.

night sweats are the main one

Dreaming about STW threads again ? 😉

Vit-D they can give you a one off boost I believe

I have been taking multi Vits for years (15+?) to keep lurgy away. Used to chat to semi-pro footballers and they all take tabs to stay healthy(eg Zinc), all serious athletes take vitamins.

I do get a lot of muscle and joint pain

Comes with age too 😐 I never forget the Frank Skinner joke about being aware that you get to an age where you make a noise everytime you sit down / get up from a chair ...

[b]@Stoatsbrother[/b] - any chance of seeing the complete article please? It's clearly controversial, if the responses are anything to go by!

being aware that you get to an age where you make a noise everytime you sit down / get up from a chair ...

IME that's more to do with getting fat.

I know I need to lose a bit of weight when I start grunting as reverse into a parking space or attempt to put my socks on - if I lose half a stone I can easily put my socks on grunt-free.

Stoatsbrother - shame we can't see the full article - any chance of a summary?

I know yu can't really answer this properly but as a GP when a 55 yr old man presents with a vit D level of 15 ( yes thats me) what would you do? What dose of vit D? My GP put me on 800iu a day and I have decided to take a general supplement as well that contains some vit D along with everything else. some folk recommend huge does - like 4000iu a day.

thoughts?

As an aside - its only day 4 of supplements today and I have my "bounce" back. I wonder how much is in my mind?

I bought myself some multi-vitamins from Boots after getting 3 winter bugs on the trot.

No idea if they make much difference, but at £6 for 180 tablets I can afford to give it a go!!

They've got 5 µg of vit D in them...

Said on here before, missus is a consultant and sees a lot of people with vitamin D deficiency. It's the only vitamin supplement that we take regularly ourselves, because if you work indoors then you won't get enough from sunlight (especially at this time of year) and unless you live on oily fish then you probably don't get enough from your diet either.

what would you do?

Carribean holiday?

Serious, btw.

I always feel less tired and more perky when I've taken multivitamins the evening before. Maybe that's also the vitamin D in them.

Long haul flight - can't do that! Joking really but its simply not possible for me right now.

One thing that occurred to me was I never wear shorts - I might start having to do so to expose more skin to sunlight.

At least take a holiday somewhere sunnier. I read that we store vitamin D, which is why we are still alive up here - we make lots in the summer, or should do, and it lasts us through the winter.

So make sure you show some skin to the sun in the summer time, the further south the better.

Ok molgrips -= coming to a trail near you soon[img] [/img]

Good god man - socks with sandals??

Update

2 weeks of supplements - prescribed vit d and OTC multivitamins ( for the older man 😯 ) I feel much better. Still ongoing investigations. they have had an entire armful of blood by now. (40 mile gentle offroad ride today in under 4 hours)

I just wish I knew how much of it was in my head. 😉

I was low and started taking it and it did improve long standing aches and pains. There is a nhs place in Birmingham that does blood tests through the post. When talking about levels there are two ways of measuring it which is confusing. Its the 25 hydroxy d level which is important. The youtube chanel of Linsay Kieth has loads of experts giving talks about it. A good one to start with is the Oliver Gillie