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You visit the mosque if it makes you feel all warm and superior. If you want to decrease your ignorance and "learn" about islam however, why don't you read the koran... Radical I know!
That way you can feel all warm and fuzzy without preaching that others should do the same or are ignorant for not wanting to visit the mosque...
[i]I'm going to go along, and take my kids.[/i]
I'd welcome my son to punch me in the face if I even suggested such a thing. He gets more than enough RE at school.
If you want to decrease your ignorance and "learn" about islam however, why don't you read the koran... Radical I know!
Next after Woppit with the pins.
What's the best way to learn a bit more about a culture, sitting reading a dry tome the size of the London telephone directory, or talking to people and having a look around?
Do you know that they're 'all' of that mindset or is that just your perception based on what you read / see in the media? How will you know if you don't go and ask them or talk to to them in a constructive way?
yes, the religion is and that's what matters given that's what is preached. I've got no interest in talking to someone just because they are a Muslim. If you want to believe that an illiterate war monger called Muhammad was spoken to by the archangel Gabriel who split the moon in two and flew to heaven on a winged horse that's your choice just don't force this nonsense on other people that don't.
Would love to go, unfortunately there isn't an open day near Bristol. Which is odd considering that there are plenty of mosques within a 15 minute walk of my house.
Great to see so much hate and intolerance being spouted by those complaining about hate and intolerance. 🙄
..Muhammad was spoken to by the archangel Gabriel who split the moon in two and flew to heaven on a winged horse..
I think pretty much all religions have some "fantastical" imagery in them don't they?
Read the [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_angelology ]Christian description of a Seraphim, Cherubim or Throne[/url].
Or check out the [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesha ]elephant deities[/url] and [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Serpent ]inter-dimensional space travelling snakes[/url] of other religions.
I would, but I've got some paint that urgently needs watching whilst it dries out...
Great to see so much hate and intolerance being spouted by those complaining about hate and intolerance
fail to see how it is hate or intolerance to know that what is written is not factual in anyway. Like I said, I don't care if you want to believe that nonsense just don't try and force it on others.
So educate us, instead of being condescending.
Sorry I missed this, no intent to be condescending hence my use of ill-educated rather the uneducated. The former, in my experience, tends to used when it is not the fault of the pupil.
Could a better response have been "Actually, all christian religions have priests but I know what you mean, it's just that they're generally better known in the CofE as vicars, rectors, canons, etc." ?
No because it is not my experience, Church of England clergy are generally referred to priests in the media when the media deigns to cover the Church. This is, of course, when there is some controversy about women or gay priests, as nothing else provides sufficient excitement. For instance, here is a recent [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38768217 ]BBC article [/url]dealing with the "furore" over gay priests - it uses the terms "priest" or collectively "clergy".
Is this important? Alone no, but it is illustrative of a complete failure of religious education in this country. I am constantly amazed at the complete lack of knowledge of the Church of England, the established Church, expressed on threads on here. Sadly, it is unlikely that this will change much in the future as too many schools, based, inter alia, on the my parish priest's experience, are not open to broadening their pupils knowledge.
My point is further illustrated by this
Christmas services which in our village are carefully shared out between the local Methodist and CofE churches in a nice bit of harmonious inter-church cooperation. (I bow my head in respect, but I don't pray or sing as I'd consider that hypocritical)
Such co-operation isn't noteworthy - it is pretty much standard operating procedure.
So you should educate us, you may say, well frankly I have neither the time nor the vocation, but if you interested in improving your knowledge, rather than spouting ill-informed nonsense on an MTB forum, read some theology. "The Gospels according to Peanuts" is a good introduction to the broad Christian faith (and that is not condescending it is a highly regarded book.)
But back to the topic of thread, I would encourage you to visit your local Mosque but I would also encourage to visit your local CofE church as well as too many have misplaced confidence in their understanding.
think I'll try pop along to the one in york, though it's a fair distance.
I'm a bit puzzled though by the "its a misogynistic/homophobic etc. faith so i wouldn't give it the time of day" type comments.
I maybe completely wrong (and i assume those mosques opening their doors are probably the more liberal end of the spectrum any way) but I'm fairly sure people (groups of, rather than individuals) with distasteful views can be found in all faiths and none just as easily and that a good number in any faith won't agree with the millennia old points of view espoused by their [and every other one I've taken the time to "read"] holly book, just as much as some will take the hardest possible interpretation.
Mr Woppit - Member
I can't think of a single reason to be "friends" with a totally random bunch of strangers because they all happen to believe in such a ridiculous ragbag of nonsense.
And yet here you are on an internet forum full of strangers with random ragbag points of view and beliefs [s]engaging in friendly conversation[/s] monologing.
not likely, I have no interest in going to places that encourage sexist, homophobic, intolerant behaviour and [b]denies any sort of critical thinking[/b].
Give me a break.
I am constantly amazed at the complete lack of knowledge of the Church of England, the established Church, expressed on threads on here. Sadly, it is unlikely that this will change much in the future as too many schools, based, inter alia, on the my parish priest's experience, are not open to broadening their pupils knowledge.
I'm of the opinion that RE should be taught in schools at an academic, objective level. Ie, "the Christian faith believe X, whereas the Islamic faith believes Y..."
Where it all falls down for me is when it's taught as truth, or more specifically that one particular religion is The Truth. Indoctrination has no place in a modern school in the UK, that's the job of the family's church (be that an actual church, a mosque or something else). Times may have changed but when I was at school I don't remember any other faiths ever being mentioned even.
Such co-operation isn't noteworthy - it is pretty much standard operating procedure.
Coming from Glasgow, where historically co-operation between branches of Christian faith have been, shall we say, [i]"tense"[/i], it was noteworthy [i]to me[/i] and good to see.
Give me a break
Critical thinking is the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgement.
The bible tells us that a 500 year old man and his 100 year old sons with no experience of boat building, constructed an ark that houses all the animals of the world and their food. This man eventually lived to 900 years old. Now this we know is complete and total bollox but the Christian religion tells us this is true and as a Christian this is one of the many stories in the bible that you are supposed to believe in. Lets not even get onto evolution, the age or the earth and universe, so tell me why I should give you a break?
And yet here you are on an internet forum full of strangers with random ragbag points of view and beliefs engaging in friendly conversation monologing.
Not really. This is not an organised ragbag of nonsensical precepts watched over by a mythical super being which everybody present believes in.
It's just a bunch of opinions in a free debate.
Odd that you think the two clearly different things are the same.
Monologue. FTFY
I maybe completely wrong (and i assume those mosques opening their doors are probably the more liberal end of the spectrum any way)
It's slightly disturbing that an effort to integrate and be welcoming is in itself "liberal," when there are more mosques in Blackburn alone than there are mosques taking part in the scheme nationally all together.
I'm fairly sure people (groups of, rather than individuals) with distasteful views can be found in all faiths and none just as easily
I don't doubt it. But a religion can add legitimacy to those views, as I said on the previous page, can give people the courage that they're "right," and facilitate those views to proliferate.
The reverse is true also of course, positive views can be encouraged in the same way. It's a shame we can't have one without the other really.
Religion is a manifestation of human need and desire.Therefore, it must represent all aspects of human nature, the good and the bad.
It would be impossible for it to be otherwise.
I dunno about that, y'know. Religion isn't a manifest of anything, it's a man-made construct. I reckon I could draw up a framework for a new religion in my lunch hour that had plenty of "be nice to each other" without all that messy raping and killing business.
poah/Woppit: so what?
I don't believe any of that stuff either. It doesn't prevent me from having a cuppa and a civilised chat with people who do. Or even from trying to understand some of their beliefs, motivations or philosophy.
As long as they are prepared to extend me the same courtesy then what's the issue?
I literally cant look away from this thread.
The bible tells us that a 500 year old man and his 100 year old sons...
But it's [i]allegorical[/i] these days, thanks to a nifty bit of revisionism. We're not supposed to believe it's actually true (apart from the bits we can't actually disprove yet, they totally happened, obvs).
I don't believe any of that stuff either. It doesn't prevent me from having a cuppa and a civilised chat with people who do. Or even from trying to understand some of their beliefs, motivations or philosophy.As long as they are prepared to extend me the same courtesy then what's the issue?
Pretty much where I'm coming from, TBH.
What's the best way to learn a bit more about a culture, sitting reading a dry tome the size of the London telephone directory, or talking to people and having a look around?POSTED 53 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
From source, always from source. Otherwise we'd all believe what the mainstream media tells us and we know that would be bad.
As long as they are prepared to extend me the same courtesy then what's the issue?
I've better things to do than deliberately waste my Sunday by getting involved with listening to a lot of risible bullsh1t.
No offense.
And yet, here we are.
The bible tells us that a 500 year old man and his 100 year old sons with no experience of boat building, constructed an ark that houses all the animals of the world and their food. This man eventually lived to 900 years old. Now this we know is complete and total bollox but the Christian religion tells us this is true and as a Christian this is one of the many stories in the bible that you are supposed to believe in.
Always pleasing to see one's point illustrated so well - I am sorry that the academic discipline of theology has passed you by - after all, it was only one of the principal subjects that our ancient universities were founded to study.
From source, always from source.
I suspect that learning Arabic may be a barrier to entry.
(Incidentally, am I right in thinking that the Quran is prohibited from being translated into other languages, or have I made that up at some point?)
Times may have changed but when I was at school I don't remember any other faiths ever being mentioned even.
Not sure how old you are, but for the same reason our study of history is centered around the UK's, it is not surprising the same approach was taken to RE and my guess is that the Christian faith was the dominant one in this country when you were at school.
Monologue. FTFY
Good of you and much as i probably did miss-spell (or make it up) it I'm not sure monologue is the word i was looking for, maybe i should have said "delivering monologues", I may of course be wrong.
You're quite right, everyone present doesn't believe in a God or gods, though the assumption that we're not all here due to some commonality of belief (even if that's "cycling is fun"), and bound by precepts (thou shalt not evade the swear filter etc.) seems misplaced. A church is just a community formed around a common interest/belief, all be it a long established and quite large one.
petty sure jhj would disagree...It's just a bunch of opinions in a free debate.
(Incidentally, am I right in thinking that the Quran is prohibited from being translated into other languages, or have I made that up at some point?)
Regardless of prohibition, English versions are available and only a google search away...
From source, always from source.
There's plenty of [url= http://awkwardmomentsbible.com ]extreme and bizarre stuff in the Bible[/url], especially the Old Testament, but I don't see a lot of babies being cut in half at the local church bake sales.
...English versions are available...
got one myself...
(it reads like one reeeaaally long cryptic crossword clue, makes the bible seem like easy-reading in comparison)
Not sure how old you are, but for the same reason our study of history is centered around the UK's, it is not surprising the same approach was taken to RE and my guess is that the Christian faith was the dominant one in this country when you were at school.
I was under the impression that it still was?
I went to school in the 80s. Primary and secondary were both non-faith schools, though I remember hymns and prayers every morning at primary school (not sure if that continued into secondary, if it did it's fallen out of my head). AFAIK a Christian-leaning RE was on the National Curriculum, though again I may just be misremembering.
I am sorry that the academic discipline of theology has passed you by - after all, it was only one of the principal subjects that our ancient universities were founded to study.
Well, it's true I don't have any Theology. But then, I also don't have any Leprechaunology, Santa Clausology or Fairies-at-the-bottom-of-the-gardenology either.
Ancient or otherwise.
There's plenty of extreme and bizarre stuff in the Bible, especially the Old Testament, but I don't see a lot of babies being cut in half at the local church bake sales.
I think that's part of the issue. You wind up having to pick and choose which bits are True, which are fables and which simply has no place in modern society - and all of those definitions will have changed wildly over time as human knowledge and culture has expanded. And that's problematic when one is using such a book as a guide to life.
There's plenty of extreme and bizarre stuff in the Bible, especially the Old Testament, but I don't see a lot of babies being cut in half at the local church bake sales.
That's because the religious habit of eventually being dragged along kicking and screaming behind improvements in ethics from secular progress, still holds true.
I don't believe any of that stuff either. It doesn't prevent me from having a cuppa and a civilised chat with people who do. Or even from trying to understand some of their beliefs, motivations or philosophy.?
I've got no issue in that either, I've just got no wish to visit a place of worship. If I've got a question about Islam I can look it up or ask one of my many Muslim colleagues.
I am sorry that the academic discipline of theology has passed you by - after all, it was only one of the principal subjects that our ancient universities were founded to study
I'm a scientist, I believe in fact. If there was any factual evidence for anything in the bible, the Koran or the tora I would re-evaluate my position - see that critical thinking thing above - but religious people, in the face of facts generally don't change their view. Its irrelevant what University's were founded on, this isn't the 1400's, we've learned shit since then.
Free debate - where bias, bigotry, ignorance and insults will always be present along with tolerance, indifference, interest and support.
So that makes it representative of the general population.
I do wonder, the way this is (inevitably) heading, whether this splinter discussion should be taken to its own thread.
patriotpro
(Incidentally, am I right in thinking that the Quran is prohibited from being translated into other languages, or have I made that up at some point?)Regardless of prohibition, English versions are available and only a google search away...
The Koran can't be translated since it's the literal word of Mohamed as he spoke it. Once translated it's no longer the Koran. It has been suggested this is one reason why Islam hasn't gone through a reformative process, the bible by contrast is composed of texts written by human men for the most part, so it's less blasphemous to interpret them .
So a religion that is getting bad press at the minute is opening its doors to try and build relations.
Then bigoted people on here choose to remain in their bigoted corner because afterall ignorance is bliss.
Then bigoted people on here choose to remain in their bigoted corner because after all ignorance is bliss.
how are people being bigoted just because they don't want to go to?
The Koran can't be translated since it's the literal word of Mohamed as he spoke it. Once translated it's no longer the Koran.
Aha! Cheers for that.
I do wonder, the way this is (inevitably) heading, whether this splinter discussion should be taken to its own thread.
is heading??
it's a shame that people can't rationally debate religion on here without the usual loudmouthed teenage boys braying like Tories at PMQ's.
I suppose this is what it's like to be a fancy watch owner/coveter in a watch thread 😆
it's a shame that people can't rationally debate religion on here without the usual loudmouthed teenage boys braying like Tories at PMQ's.
Your image is the result of your own prejudicial overlaying onto sets of typed words, something you've seen on TV....
Cougar - a thread which started with the evident intention of sharing a piece of information is now at risk of turning into something else entirely and I can understand you considering hiving it off it elsewhere.
I'm in leeds where there are plenty of mosques but i didn't know 'Visit my Mosque' was on this Sunday until i read the post.
Why can't people just take it at face value and move on if all they are capable of comprises insults, ignorance and cheap shots.
Can't avoid thinking that the politics and religious threads provide a clear insight into the 'real person'.